vasilnatalie's avatar

Laptop.pmx for MMD

By vasilnatalie
76 Favourites

I needed a laptop model recently.  I looked.  Everything had rules.  Kee-rist, peeps.  I ended up using a 2D picture instead.

Then, today, I wanted to make something, but I wanted to make something easy, because I've been feeling lazy lately.  So I looked on Blendswap.

You know, all of those people with the meshes with rules?  They do exactly the same thing I do.  They find a mesh that somebody else made, they run it through an export script, they add a little bit of flash, pizazz, whatever they can think of, and then they release.  Half the time, they're using a base for which editing has been plainly, explicitly forbidden by the artist (game rips).  The other half of the time, they're using a base that was released in the public domain or under a CC-0 license.  And then they turn around, after having done a fraction of the work the original modeller did, and add a bunch of rules.

People.  Nobody is getting famous doing this.  Nobody is ever going to make any money ripping other peeps' meshes.  Too many people are acting like kids who's parent-type-thing just built them a treehouse, excited that finally they're the one that gets to make the rules.  "No distribution!  And no girls allowed!"  And to my mind, it's totally disrespectful of all these awesome people who shared their meshes with us, without making a single rule.

So, here.  Hopefully it is the one laptop to rule them all.  Let me know if it doesn't do something that you want it to.
Image size
1600x1200px 1.06 MB
anonymous's avatar
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RandomationsYT's avatar
Agree 100% with that rules rant. A long running annoyance of mine. I support and shall use this laptop.
zebdal's avatar
the funny thing is that I actually wanted to find a laptop for one of my videos, and I find this without searching. :V
vasilnatalie's avatar
Cool!  Let me know if you can think of anything that would make it more usable.  I'd be happy to put more work into it.
zebdal's avatar
"because rules are for boring people".
shots fired.
razrRjunko's avatar
uhh the model looks p nice but i literally have such a hard time comprehending the rest of your description. im trying my hardest not to be rude but when theres just so much written here that pisses me off it's really hard to do that

why do editors have rules? they're adhering to the original rules of the source material they use. someone may add a no editing rule to an edit because they don't want the sources of the parts or credits to be lost. people may have a no 18+ rule because the model base they use has a no r18 rule.

also i dont know if im having a stroke or reading it wrong or what but your text just kind of assumes that modelers dont have any rules. that's not true in the slightest, as a modelers rules are usually written in the readme file of the model. every modeler has rules. im not sure where you got the idea that people release their stuff without any rules on it, as that's as far from the truth as you can get. i really hope at this point that i am indeed having a stroke and that the "modelers dont have rules" thing is just a result of said stroke

nobody is trying to be famous. where even did you get this assumption??????????? im really confused

"rules are for boring people" this is literally the worst sentence i've ever read in my life, hands down. and this is coming from someone who gets postcards from their niece with stuff like "unicorn barf" written on them.

and honestly? you're not going to find things without rules on them. rules aren't even that hard to follow. rules are usually in place to make sure an artist gets credit for their work, or to protect themselves from certain issues. do you really think it's that shitty for someone to protect themselves 

as a modeler who does make my own things and lets people use them, i do have rules, and this entire post made me cringe. yikes.
vasilnatalie's avatar
Hey, thanks for writing.  I'll try to skip the yikes/cringe/having a stroke stuff and deal with the actual arguments you make.

"As a modeler who does make my own things and lets people use them, i do have rules, and this entire post made me cringe."

I can see that you do make your own original stuff.  What tools do you use?  PMXE?  Blender?  Meta?

Most MMD model releases are not composed of entirely original meshes.  The majority of what I see uses rips from games or from anonymous 3DCG authors.  I see completely original work 1 in a 1000 releases.  I have a lot of respect for you for releasing completely original meshes.  Both of us know that modelling is difficult.  Although I would encourage you to stop creating rules for your models, little of what I said was aimed at people making completely original meshes.  Looking back, I can tell that I didn't make that clear, and I'm sorry.  When I said, "All of those people," I was exaggerating.  No, not all people create MMD meshes that way.  You don't.  (But the overwhelming majority do.)

"They're adhering to the original rules of the source material they use."

This is rarely true.  First, anybody that's ever using a game rip is not adhering to the rules of their source.  Games always come with the most explicit list of rules any of us could ever dream of writing....

Beyond that, modellers regularly take stuff from the public domain-- stuff with no rules-- and add their own, new rules to it.  This becomes increasingly obvious as one looks at more and more publicly available meshes, and starts seeing the exact source material that is used in MMD conversions.  This stuff is often originally released as public domain or as CC0-- creative commons zero-- which are essentially the same thing.  These licenses include no demands for even credit.  Yet MMD converters regularly add demands to be credited.  And they rarely demand credit for their original source, or even give credit to their original source.  Anything not wholly original that ever comes with a "no edit" rule is an obvious example of people doing much more than adhering to the rules of their sources.

"I'm not sure where you got the idea that people release their stuff without any rules on it."

If you take a look at the readme on this model, you'll see me crediting my source.  In this case, it's lucasromerodb, and the mesh that I used was accessed from… .  If you take a look at that, you'll see that it's released under the "CC0" license.  What that means is that the creator of this mesh, despite what you're saying, released his work to the world without creating even a single rule regarding it.  Without even demanding that people using his work credit him.  (I've decided to credit him anyways, because my reason to credit sources is to be a decent human being, and to allow others to make something better than I did out of that mesh; I don't need rules to tell me to do that.)

Take a look around that site.  You can search by license.  Here's a search for "sword", "CC0":… .  Four pages of sword models released without even a single rule.  Search for anything you want.  And that's just one site out of hundreds, maybe thousands.

So, yes, people release their stuff without any rules on it, all the time.  This is rare in the world of MMD.  It is not rare elsewhere.  And the fact that many MMD users take advantage of this generosity on the part of other modellers, then turn around and fail to show the same generosity to others, is utterly disrespectful to their sources.

"Or to protect themselves from certain issues."

Protect themselves from what?  Artists are not responsible for what others do with their art.  Artists are not protecting themselves from anything by instituting their rules.  It is control, not protection.

"Nobody is trying to be famous."

There's no reason to demand that one's name be attached except to spread one's name.  Demands for credit are unnecessary for any other purpose.

Think about the number one source for MMD meshes and textures: 3DCG mods.  3DCG had a thriving community of skilled artists.  Yet these mods were released anonymously, for anyone to use or redistribute.  This lawless culture did not prevent anyone from making anything.  And today, MMD is much richer for the selflessness shown by these creators.  Thank you 3DCG mod authors!

We should learn from them.  But instead, we're making rules.
razrRjunko's avatar
to say that it's not true that people do it to adhere to the source material's rules is actually really really wrong. i'm not sure exactly what you've been looking at, but one example is how a lot of tda-edited models have a no R18 rule. this is because tda themselves implemented a no R18 rule on their work. people will add rules not to edit because some modelers (i cant remember the names off the top of my head, there's espeically one i know does this but they've been inactive for years now) include rules in their readme that state that if you edit their model, you need to add their same rules to your edit. it's definitely a regular thing, and if you haven't seen this happen then i doubt you're looking in the right places.

also, i implement rules to protect myself and my work. i don't want people stealing things from me, scribbling over it and rereleasing the work as their own. i'm the one who did the modeling, not them, and i want to be recognized for my work, not have someone else claim they spent the time to model and texture my own work.

i've been mainly referring to work within MMD itself, not outside program communities. the communities for MMD and for blender are very, very different. MMD is more of a hobby freeware program, blender and others are aimed more at people who want to do 3D work professionally. (not that pro stuff can't be made with MMD, its just that professional/commercial work is very different in the MMDc)

the issues i'm referring to are doujin laws in japan (and a lot of people give me an eye roll when i say this but hear me out) they're a lot more strict than in the US. basically, japanese doujin laws say that fanwork is allowed to a certain extent; if a modeler is given a cease and desist by the creator of something they made a fan model for, they need to be able to cease distribution and shut the entire thing down as soon as possible. companies being active on the 3D modeling scene is exactly why, for example, mamama's api miku model is under strict rules that it can't be edited into a non-crypton character. it wasn't their choice of rules, crypton specificially requested this rule be put in effect because they own the crypton characters.

and what's wrong with spreading your name? in my case, i need to try to spread myself out as much as possible. why? because i live off the money i get from art commissions. someone paying me to do things for them will let me buy food to feed myself. and besides, why is it so wrong to want credit? if i work for days, weeks, even months working on a single model and i release it, you bet your ass i'm going to want credit for making it. i'm not sure why that's such a foreign concept...

and 3DCG modelers "not having any rules"? i'm sorry, but that's bullshit. namely the two most popular modelers, Hissa3D and NXJA, DO have rules surrounding their work. Hissa3D refuses to allow his creations to be converted to any other program and is very strict about editing of his work. NXJA, last time i checked, allows conversion but requires that you contact them for redistribution and/or include their own readme detailing their rules. and these are just the two most popular modders for 3DCG.

in addition, people having rules really doesn't limit you either. some people just don't want you to redistribute edits without asking them first. some people want you to include their readme. some people will allow you to edit and redistribute freely with credit, because they want credit for their work which isn't really that hard of a concept to grasp.

to be honest, it's really not any of your business whether someone adds rules to their work or not. if they add rules, it's because they want their work and their name protected. if you're really that bothered by people having rules on their models, then MMD probably isn't the thing for you. rules are everywhere here, and it's mainly because of the huge difference in the eastern and western communities. i really don't think the concept of having rules is rocket science. some people may choose to add rules, others may not. i really don't think it's worth whining about people having rules.
vasilnatalie's avatar
Well, now I'm getting irritated, so I'll probably end up being more rude than I'd prefer too.  By the way, I don't ask rhetorical questions.  If I ask a question, it's because I would like to hear the answer.  So again, what do you use to model?

"To say that it's not true that people do it to adhere to the source material's rules is actually really really wrong."

I am not saying that people never do.  I am responding to your argument that that is the reason that people make rules.  It is a tiny proportion of rules that are created.  The context: "Why do editors have rules? they're adhering to the original rules of the source material they use."  This reads like you meant it to be a complete description of editors' rules.

"I don't want people stealing things from me, scribbling over it and rereleasing the work as their own."

And your rules do not protect from that in the slightest.  Because anybody that would do that doesn't give a shit about your rules anyways.  Your rules provide you zero protection from this happening.

"I want to be recognized for my work... because i live off the money i get from art commissions."

And this is exactly what I mean w/r/t wealth and fame.  You care deeply about recognition.  And this is exactly why I said, "Nobody is getting famous doing this.  Nobody is ever going to make any money ripping other peeps' meshes."  Which you seemed to have a lot of problems with, saying, "Nobody is trying to be famous."

I find it hard to believe that you actually are living off the money you get from art commissions.  Unless you have another gallery someplace?  How much did you tell the IRS that you earned last year from art commissions?

However, on the off-chance that I'm wrong, I totally agree.  If you're selling work, making money that you need to eat, go ahead and copyright your work, deny redistribution, etc.  This makes you, umm, one of maybe ten people in all of MMD doing so?  Say hi to Kakomiki for me.

"The communities for MMD and for blender are very, very different."

And how exactly does that difference translate into it being more appropriate to create rules for MMD models than for Blender?

In any case, when it comes to modelling, the communities for MMD and more professional editing software intersect, overlap, because there is just a ton that cannot be done in PMXE.  It's necessary to work in something like Blender or Meta as well.

But once again, you're forgetting the context.  This was in response to your statement that, "You're not going to find things without rules on them."  Or, "Every modeler has rules."  That is simply not true.  I can't imagine what you were thinking when you wrote either of those statements.

Even in MMD, creators do release models without rules.  This is the exception, even though it shouldn't be.

"If a modeler is given a cease and desist by the creator of something they made a fan model for, they need to be able to cease distribution and shut the entire thing down as soon as possible."

Good thing that neither of us are making doujin.  Nor the vast majority of people creating models for MMD and creating unnecessary rules for them.

But still, if you think this is an essential part of your argument, and you're tired of watching eyes roll, it's the sort of statement that you'd be best off finding a source for.

"The two most popular modelers, Hissa3D and NXJA, DO have rules surrounding their work."

The point is that it's not the rule.  It's the exception.  Whereas in MMD, that's reversed.  People in MMD benefit from all the work that is shared with them, free of restriction, and fail to pass that benefit on.  That's fucked up.  That's disrespectful.

But thanks for letting me know about NXJA.  There's a lot of MMD stuff ripped from NXJA that I doubt was released with his or her blessing.  And then, with the audacity to add new rules after ignoring NXJA's.  Whee.

And when they do decide to honor NXJA's restrictions, it directly translates into less diversity in MMD.

"To be honest, it's really not any of your business whether someone adds rules to their work or not."

If you want to add rules, it's your right.  I'm not going to your door and breaking your keyboard.  I hope I never gave the impression that I was going to do that.

But it's also your right to do any number of things.  Just like one can make a few edits to a public domain mesh, drop the original author's name, and demand that one get credited, one can go to a food bank, then turn around and sell the food one's been given out of charity.  Those are both legal.  Neither of those things is breaking any rules.

Does that make it none of my business?  Not by a long shot!  It's my right to tell you that behavior is fucked.  If you want to be a decent human being, give thanks for what you've been given by giving it in turn.

"MMD probably isn't the thing for you."

I plan to continue playing with MMD.  I plan to continue to try to do my part, try to help others by releasing tools and models free of restrictions, and encourage others to do the same.  Indeed, MMD needs this behavior more than, say, people playing with Blender need it.  MMD is exactly the thing for me.
thos-beans's avatar
Maybe if you would just open your ears and hear their side of the argument, you wouldn't sound so rude.

What is so hard for you to understand that some people like rules, and some people don't? Or is that too much for you to handle?

If people want to put rules on the things that they have either modeled from scratch, put together, or in some other way created, then let them!

It's honestly sad to see you complaining about this for so long, and reading all of your flimsy statements just further shows me that you don't really understand this community at all.

And judging someone based on their income is seriously fucked, especially when you go and start assuming what they do and do not live off of, or how they even get by.

And honestly, you have no right to tell someone that their behavior is "fucked" or that they should be "grateful", because,
did they ask for your opinion? No.
Did they ask for what you think of their behavior? No.
Did they ask you what they should be grateful for? No.
vasilnatalie's avatar
I don't think you understand.  But neither do I believe that you're interested in doing so.

"did they ask for your opinion? No.
Did they ask for what you think of their behavior? No."

If you feel these are good reasons to refrain from commenting on behavior (I personally do not), then you should practice what you preach.
vasilnatalie's avatar
And, blocked!

Why is it never, "I'm done, goodbye, --click--" but always, "I'm done, but here are ten paragraphs to get the last word."

What I'm hearing:

* "How DARE you ask for details supporting my claim that I live off my art commissions!"
* "How DARE you mis(lol)quote me in a way that anybody can verify with ctrl-f!"
* "How DARE you judge anyone for failing to pass on the charity that they've been shown!"

Outrage is the emotion that protects us from hearing anything we don't want to hear.

Look.  You're never the person I was writing to anyways.  You're doing original stuff.  Adding rules to this isn't the same as adding rules to public domain stuff.  Yes, I still don't think that you need rules, all they do is limit the ways people can use your work, and they don't protect you in any of the ways that you imagine that they do.  While doing it for recognition is a little selfish, more selfish than doing it to, you know, help everybody make more beautiful things, it's not terribly so, and it's tolerable.
razrRjunko's avatar
 i apologize if i sounded rude before, it's been a pretty tense night for me.

i never said that was the case for all editors. there are many that do it because of the source materials rules, though. i just wanted to point that out.

i also never said that the rules don't prevent people from doing those things. by having those rules in place though, the person who downloads something has the guidelines there in front of them, which means if they deliberately break the rules, the consequences of doing so (like getting reported for theft or misuse) is entirely their fault. the rules being there means that they are responsible for ignoring the rules and must deal with what happens afterwards. that is what i mean by that. this example isnt exactly the same but carries the same principles, if you buy something with a specific set of directions and then deliberately ignore those directions and get in trouble for doing so, you can't blame the creator of the thing for the damage that occurred because it's entirely your fault. like i said it's not an exact example but i did what i could

i am not trying to be famous. i want recognition for what i have done to the very VERY small audience that i have. did i ever say i wanted to be famous? no, i never did. wanting credit is not the same as wanting to be famous... where did that even... i'm not even gonna bother with this anymore

you're seriously trying to drag the IRS into this oh my god??? if you must know, i did report all my numbers correctly because i had to fill out forms for my business license. not that it was any of your business anyway. like i'm sorry to be rude there, but i was simply stating that the credit i get can draw people to me and i can negotiate commissions with them so i can afford to feed myself weekly. i never planned on discussing my exact numbers or how i cunduct my business, because its definitely none of yours.

i'm not exactly familiar with the blender community, so i'll at least concede here. i apologize for bringing that up, it was my mistake as i've never really used blender or delved into the community.
(although i never said every single modeler ever has rules. please don't misquote me like that.)

doujin is considered fanwork. sorry, but it is. the term refers to self-published fanworks. that includes 3D models and artwork.

there's literally nothing stopping people from being creative with what they're given. the fact that you believe having rules in general is "fucked up" is really. yeah. no. as someone who creates my own content i find it apalling that i would ever have to justify creating usage rules on my own work.

(and yeah i agree about the NXJA thing, i see a lot of it going around these days and im like woah there.........)

also the decent human being thing was really uncalled for and horribly rude. what you just said was fucked up. it's not "being a decent human being" by adding usage rules to my work so that it's not misrepresented??? its "fucked up" that i want to be able to add my own guidelines for what i make??? it's pretty fucked up that you'd say something rude like that. to insist that i'm a bad person for asking people to credit me and follow my very simple rules (which mainly consist of "dont steal my textures, add credit, don't use this to slander another person") leaves a really bad taste in my mouth. i'm sorry if i was rude before as i wanted to make this a civilized discussion, but i'm really pissed off at that comment. i will cease being civilized here if it's insisted that i'm a bad person for having rules.
that was really fucked up of you.

edit: actually you know what? i'm done with this conversation. i was done the minute you brought up numbers with the IRS, which was never any of your business and was incredibly rude to bring up in the first place, and then insisting i'm a bad person for not sharing your exact point of view was the last straw. feel however you want. i wanted to try to bring a different point of view to this conversation, but the nasty things you have said to me just solidify the fact that i wasted my time talking to someone like you. i'm ending it here. while you did make a lot of good points, bringing up my business practices and trying to call me a shitty person just proves that you can't be reasoned with. goodbye and ave a nice life.
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