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Forged In The Blood of Angels by ukitakumuki Forged In The Blood of Angels by ukitakumuki
Found an abandoned doodle in the harddrive from late last year while clearing up space and was inspired to spruce it up a little, i miss painting them old specce muhreens. i guess i really adore the Aquila pattern helmet so much... :< 

Does anyone else find the new Primaris pattern a step backward? I get some of the timeline reference and so that it evokes the Maximus pattern almost to a T except for the inclusion of the awkward 'headphone armour covers' and the gorget that appears in some of the Errant pattern (my fav pattern btw) technical illustrations in the past. I just don't see why they need to remove the iconic Mk/7 'chapel'/voxcaster mouth as I like to refer to it as, and no, I wont have the whole "but the voxcaster is a weak spot" argument. The Mk6 Corvus pattern visually suggested "solving" that but at the same time didn't apparently, hence the succeeding patterns went back to 'mouths'. So the principal of ballistic shaping seems to hardly be a central issue or concept in helmet design in the Imperium of the 41st millennium anyway. Also Primaris marines were vat grown over 10000 years to replace the old guard? Wat. WAT *SOLDIER kurt russell/jason scott lee "YOUR MEN ARE OBSOLETE" movie trigger warning*
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:iconstargazzer811:
Stargazzer811 Featured By Owner Nov 15, 2018  Hobbyist Artist
Here is something to consider, since Primaris are almost true-scale model wise, that is to say they are supposed to be as tall as normal marines (which is 8 feet in power armor), normal space marines can therefore use Primaris gear. So really what we need then, is true scale normal marine models (which do exist, actually) and just give them primaris gear. Boom, best of both worlds.
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:iconjd20mg:
JD20mg Featured By Owner Oct 15, 2018
Nice rendering.   

I wouldn't call the Primos a step backward, but more of a step in the direction to address complaints about the previous ed's being too scale-short.  Thus the Primos are closer to true scale.  As far as the overall design, The old Mk 7 has been around a long time, the Primaris could be simply a reflection of a new generation of designers at GW.  (My only concern is the "will of the wisp", that 40k may share the fate of the Fantasy Battle line if they don't consistently meet sales targets).
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:iconskypotatofire:
SkyPotatoFire Featured By Owner Aug 2, 2018
Boody cool.
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:iconnicknightshade:
NickNightshade Featured By Owner Jul 26, 2018  Professional Digital Artist
Considering that Space Marines ever wear their darn helmets in the first place all that malarkey about "tactical redesign" etc is functionally a bunch of nonsense.

But agreed, on a general level the whole idea of "super Space Marines" miraculously pulled out of some never before mentioned tech priest's (metaphorical) ass struck me as a borderline shark jumping moment to bolster flagging miniature sales.  Thankfully, it seems like the Primaris have been primarily hyped on the product side and the lore side seems to have broomed most of that silliness under the rug, so there's that.

That said, thanks for the post, I miss seeing your art around here.
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:iconneoprene-goldfish:
Neoprene-Goldfish Featured By Owner Jul 24, 2018
Ignoring all sensible questions about the actual protection provided, the chapel voxcaster mouth projects the right stylistic tone to me. The downward arch of the mouth makes the marines look grim and full of judgement, it's far more expressive and intimidating than the new helmets.
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:icondjp15:
DJP15 Featured By Owner Jul 21, 2018  Student Digital Artist
When we stop and look at the lore of the Primaris Marines it's quite easy to get mad at the fact that they've come following Guilliman's white knight crusade to save the world 'conveniently', but when we put ourselves in our favourite Astartes' giant ceramite clad shoes we can imagine just what a blessing these new ranks of soldiers mean for their beloved Imperium for which they fight and die every day to protect.
It came to me when reading about the near-fall of Baal when the Blood Angels were nearly completely wiped out and overrun (I'm a BA player myself). Its easy to get all prideful and say 'well we didn't want help from special vat marines' but stopping and thinking about how Commander Dante must have felt when those Primaris Marines started to drop, gun and smash the enemies of man into the dirt.
New ranks to fill tiring legions who are ever overwhelmed and outnumbered by all the continually multiplying horrors of the galaxy. New weapons to smite the foes of the Emperor. Above everything else, a Primarch himself has returned! There could be no greater morale boost to the weary legions in my opinion.

Design wise, I love the new marines. It's a slicker take on an aged design. I'm a bit biased since I like the maximus pattern mask, but what's to say there won't be the opportunity to put the old chapel mask on a Mk10 suit? Miniature wise I'm sure its possible, lore wise I don't think there are THAT many rules with regards to which exact helmet you have on (some don't even wear them and it doesn't affect their armour save haha).

Long story short, Primaris Marines are cool IMO. They look cool, have a noble goal, and honestly add a whole new layer of OG to the old marines. Stories of Primaris having to prove themselves to their chapters of being worthy additions are circulating through a number of chapters' lore at the moment, and that says a lot about why we shouldn't really hate the new Primaris marines considering what they're here to do for the Imperium and what it means for our favourite SM legions in the gander scheme of things!

For the EMPRAH!
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:iconukitakumuki:
ukitakumuki Featured By Owner Jul 25, 2018  Professional Digital Artist
Thats a very educational writeup, thanks for that! Im not as against the lore concept since reading between the lines of my brief commentary in the description i was merely put off by the semi lazy reasoning and also how it shits on its own historical figure line, explaining that they simply were 'lesser perfect' forms of the vatmarines. Cute.. But not the kind of cute i thought fit in this case.

The main thing im against is the aesthetic 'evolution' which again seems to depart more and more from the whole walking chapel hilarious wrongness that was the 40k from before. Its just safe and boring for me now, its lost its bite. And while you're right to say that custom modding has always been cleverly part of the lore and hobby aspect, its a different story when it comes to overt marketting art and having to be 'on brand' to push sales of -the- new spess muhreens. That just feels a tad sad, but alas they need to feed the Emprahh so i obviously appreciate that motivation at least. Hehe :) 
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:iconphiq:
phiq Featured By Owner Jul 20, 2018  Professional Digital Artist
I like the Primaris designs and I see them as the latest in a line of designs which will one day again be built upon, again and again, and so forth. It is the way of all things and has been for some time. My issue at this moment though is not knowing whether or not GW will, in the models and the imagery, effectively dump all of the previous iterations of armour and the associated crunchy lore, historical feel and endless customisation, for just one style. Ultimately, this is an issue that stems directly from having to mass produce physical models at some expense; in many other contexts this wouldn't have needed to be considered, so I do maintain a measure of compassion for the bind GW finds themselves in. It matters where they take it from here. Hopefully the reasonable thing happens, which is that these Great Crusade era marines shape up to the reality of m41 and become like their embittered older comrades and that armour and weapons undergo the steady morphological changes over time of constant repair and religious attention and look ever the more divergent for it. Guilliman may try all he wants for radical restructuring but with Imperial traditions and systems the way the are (insane) that effort is bound to suffer. As for the positives of the Primaris armour, there is no debate that it elegantly settles so many issues of the original armour designs that remained for decades un-described due to the limitations of less advanced model production processes. The waist of the standard marine for eg, never expressed the articulation that you'd expect him to have, not to mention the "bucket arse" and Terminator variant. The Primaris are like their forebears in that their design is largely constricted by model production methods, and the old armour is a good deal a result of that constriction, which, had it never had been quite in the same way it was 20 years ago, would have meant marines would be slightly different. Whatever the expression, Jes Goodwin in a design god and he has made and still makes the very most of what's possible at every turn, making great looking figures whatever the era, and I trust that he's got some goods to deliver yet. Also, the contribution of the GW illustrators over the years (Dainton I put first, then Kopinski and Boyd, and YOU, haha) to redefine and explain via detailed realistic renditions of marine armour cannot be understated. Effectively you have created expressions, renditions and explanations for a plethora of details and functionality that have never appeared in the models themselves. To some degree, there are applications of such things on the Primaris armour as standard. I share the love of many stylings on many mks of armour, indeed I love all of them for different reasons and character, but the Primaris armour describes the physicality more completely, and that's one thing I really appreciate, and no doubt Goodwin himself thought was overdue. Fuck me I wrote a lot, haha. Love your work dude. Peace!
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:iconukitakumuki:
ukitakumuki Featured By Owner Jul 25, 2018  Professional Digital Artist
Hey i think i follow u on instagram! That aside, im not against the physicality of the new build as you described, just the aesthetics and how they seem more generic, balanced semihard-scifi musings and less fierce, less culturally influenced choices than its predecessors, hence the step-backward comment. Its aimed at the most superficial level of how ive come to understand what i thought was the brilliance of the 40k universe that inspired me as a kid and informed my choices when 'paying it forward' as an illustrator for them, so to speak. To put bluntly, 40k to me always presented this sly, sassy jab at religion and political commentary in general, and all these tropes were dialed to 11, and then mixed in with 80s tacticool. The rude nerd dream. Now it looks more and more like an ip derived from 40k, by losing the 'political incorrectness' and the bits 'so insane and ridiculous its actually awesome' slant. Moreover, as much as i love talking armouring and ballistic shaping, that was always mindfully put to one side when working in 40k environment because to me it was a kind of romanticism and hypersensationalism of ideas, of tropes that work only when delivered with high amounts of conviction and monty python-ness lol. Take the voxcaster logic, i always convinced myself its a speaker ON TOP of a fullface plate. No fiber of my inner tacticool angel had to be harmed as there was always plenty of affordances in the designs to be read as plausible and even very sensible choices given the right context. 

So basically the neo-maximus pattern helmet upmodded, is a 'safe' and boring choice. The body, reproportioned, is only too welcome(saying otherwise would be idiocy), but the styling and functionality upgrade arguments are still to me self defeating when seen through fluff/lore lenses.

As for the vatmarines, i dont mind at all, the logistics explains itself and presents a faultless argument. Again, its purely from the fluff pov that it feels poorly implemented, and the fact they kind of shat on their own historical figure line is, almost ironically commendable. 
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:iconphiq:
phiq Featured By Owner Jul 28, 2018  Professional Digital Artist

Indeed you do follow me on insta, I must art okay after all ;-)


Thanks so much for the in-depth response. So I think I properly understand your position now. I think the issue with the Primaris armour boils down to the strict uniformity of the armour. The key factor here being that your baseline marine is no longer clad in a bespoke armour set/amalgamation of culture-rich historical parts. Instead, we've got a whole new line of armour with no crossover to the previous incarnations. That change is significant and comes down to your point about the cultural/historical/romantic flavouring of standard marine armour, which plays a big part in the space marine as this icon of 40k overall. I am with you on that point.


But as I said in my original comment, it matters what GW does from here to develop all of this, and right now people are acting all old-man-hates-change instead of taking an agnostic approach, because - really - none of us have any idea what direction this heading. My expectation is that GW are planning for the long term, and will release more lines of marines with added variation and historical gubbinz in the years to come. That will result in marines that clearly stand apart from what's come before, but still exhibit that same creative philosophy that has always typified the poster boys of 40k. A break in that creative philosophy will be something to worry about, but it's hard to make the case that that is happening now because the vast majority of 40k is running along much the same as it was, in all respects. I don't agree that 40k is being diluted or has been made less insane at all, but I do think that the major change that the Primaris have been has instigated these sentiments in the community.


As for the techy styling of the Primaris, ultimately it's very much in line with a lot before it, and justified especially with the size of the models themselves. Without many of those details, you would have a lot of unoccupied space and a real lack of visual crunch. The standard Tactical Squad for eg, is very techy. So I don't think the issue is that they are too techy, it's more that there's not that level of encrusted 40k verbosity on top that we have all come to expect. And that goes for most marine armour variants, in that, completely unadorned, they're pretty clearly techy sci-fi suits (Mk 1-3 look intentionally archaic and less techy, of course). The Primaris design for these reasons is no less boring or interesting than the others in my view, but it's baseline build does lack many cultural accents.


I recommend the Dark Millennium novel if you're interested in getting a better feel of the current 40k setting. The book mainly concerns Guilliman and his relationship to a galaxy he doesn't recognise, which is an interesting setup. Guilliman is essentially a modern man (by our standards), and so his dealings with the 40k Imperial culture make for various fascinating conflicts, such as him having to constantly put up with hearing apocryphal tales of his exploits, having his “faith” in the Emperor's non-divinity tested, and setting up a special agency to discover the correct imperial date, only to discover there is no consensus galaxy-wide. Some of this stuff is genuinely funny, but it's clever too. He's resentful of his resurrection and quite lonely, which is not the kind of light you'd imagine a Primarch in. In many ways it's the Horus Heresy coming full circle back into 40k, but everyone's ideals are confused, haha. Despite being a superhuman regent giant, Guilliman's the most relatable character and you sympathise with his predicament.


The sequel to DM sports this cover by Igor Sid >> www.artstation.com/artwork/l08… This, to me, is very much still a full-flavoured 40k :-)

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:iconrenato8881:
renato8881 Featured By Owner Jul 19, 2018  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Not a marine fan but hard not to like a sweet piece of art like this.
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:iconspace-is-pretty-big:
space-is-pretty-big Featured By Owner Jul 19, 2018
Wouldn't it be tempered in blood?
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:iconukitakumuki:
ukitakumuki Featured By Owner Jul 19, 2018  Professional Digital Artist
Good point! I guess i was thinking more abstractly and borrowing figurative expressions ive come across before that felt apt. I admittedly was not trying to be too clever with it and went with what i assumed was the more 'casual' expression. Tempering to me suggests a more technical process next to quenching, and both while sensible evoke a very specific visual, a bit too specific perhaps? I do like that tempering if seen punnily, deeply nods to the Blood Angels lore but yeah haha
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:iconspace-is-pretty-big:
space-is-pretty-big Featured By Owner Jul 20, 2018
Yeah but I feel ya as "forged in combat/war/battle" have all been made pretty cliche, so I appreciate the attempt to move way from those three.
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:iconweilumaumatika5:
weilumaumatika5 Featured By Owner Jul 19, 2018
Blood angels 
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:iconkagaminepootis:
kagaminePOOTIS Featured By Owner Jul 19, 2018  Hobbyist Digital Artist
astonishing
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:iconearltheartist:
earltheartist Featured By Owner Jul 19, 2018
ukitakumuki  I guess I understand you're grievances and allot of people share them. I love the aquila pattern helmet. I guess they need to keep the 70%medievil 20%scifi rule that allot of 40k stuff used to have that felt 40k, scary, intimidating and grimdark. 

Always loved your work, still do :D

you also inspired me to draw space marines in 40k
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:icondeadknight1:
DeadKnight1 Featured By Owner Jul 18, 2018
Best chapter.
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:iconsokil-su:
Sokil-Su Featured By Owner Jul 18, 2018  Hobbyist Digital Artist
A lot of new designs are a step backwards. In case of marine helmets, there is some logic, but the new design does not have that cool and angry look.
Also, until recentl years I could instantly recognize any 40K army from afar, now I can't count the times I mistook Custodes for Eldar.
I also often wish BL stopped writing whatever comes to mind... Some parts of lore are mangled beyond recognition already =D

Fantastic doodle, man! =D
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:icondeadknight1:
DeadKnight1 Featured By Owner Jul 18, 2018
I just don't like the Primaris Marines. The classic marines were way better.
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:iconsokil-su:
Sokil-Su Featured By Owner Jul 23, 2018  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Yea... Primaris minis have better proportions though..
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:icondeadknight1:
DeadKnight1 Featured By Owner Jul 23, 2018
I do like how the Primaris look, but I just prefer the old fashioned Astartes.
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:iconukitakumuki:
ukitakumuki Featured By Owner Jul 18, 2018  Professional Digital Artist
Damn, yes, while i can look past screamo vox grill 80s mouths as a shared trope, the high helmet swoop of a banshee plus its plume is almost errrrr *headscratch*too iconic to be reused like that lol

I do have guilty pleasure in the custodes' bolter lance thing
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:iconsokil-su:
Sokil-Su Featured By Owner Jul 23, 2018  Hobbyist Digital Artist
There were different helmet designs without a grille (beakies are awesome), but primaris helmets are just too boring and normal.. Well, at least we can be thankful they are not "helmet inside another helmet" design pattern =D

Custodes have a lot of nice things in the designs, but they are not Imperial enough =D As an Eldar fan I don't like to be fooled into custodes when I click on the Eldar preview.. Even jetbikes! =D
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:iconthecatagorizer:
TheCatagorizer Featured By Owner Jul 18, 2018
In case there wasn't there wasn't enough red. 
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:iconukitakumuki:
ukitakumuki Featured By Owner Jul 18, 2018  Professional Digital Artist
Haha
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:iconironclad00:
Ironclad00 Featured By Owner Jul 18, 2018  Hobbyist Writer
Holy frag, Ukita; THIS is what you call a 'doodle'?

On the subject of helmet design, I want to caution you that every instance I've seen of people debating the technical specs of Warhammer equipment end in tragedy, usually with at least one side being declared heretical.  I'm afraid a lot of it was designed to look cool to a 1980s audience first, then they came up with reasoning for it afterwards.  I say this as someone who's already scrutinized Warhammer technology, and found such reasoning often lacking.  HOWEVER, I'll say this much: you're right that the helmet's vent definitely isn't large enough to be a major weakness, especially considering how many weapons in the Warhammer universe seem able to go straight through Space Marine armor anyway, and the fact that Space Marines are 80% breastplate.  Personally, I thought the Corvus pattern was designed to improve the fairly sketchy aerodynamics of assault marines, nothing else.

Don't even start on Primaris Marines.  You don't deserve that headache, especially when, as I mentioned, you craft an awesome piece like this, and just consider it a forgotten doodle.
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:iconukitakumuki:
ukitakumuki Featured By Owner Jul 18, 2018  Professional Digital Artist
I assumed it was safe to bring up as i was already considered a heretic ever since i posted my phobos tactica fan design hahaha, only slightly redeemed by doing work for gw.. But jokes aside, i thought a similiar way when younger about the beakie, looked sensible on an assault soaring about. Until i noticed they tend to violently rock their heads and present high drag faces during flight, then that somewhat intuitive opinion became a bit bruised afterwards. I guess thats also what you are implying w your statement about voxgrill size vs over-penetration in 40k anyway, so yes, lol, that too.

The OLD maximus pattern was fine as it is, but allow me to just.. vent(hehe).. when i ask why the gorget when it is so high and looks like it is a elegant way to shield up to the nose/eyeline most of the time, still results in the faceplate seemingly getting more armour to the front? Even the sororitas helmet looks fine and fits so well with a high gorget piece no? The visual logic is clear as day and truly evokes clarity of design intent.

Youre absolutely right about the post-rationalising back in the day when they became successful, thats not uncommon in entertainment media and fans like us would be happy to lap it up. But isnt this a modern reinvention? If they presented a design that was never before seen, i would have shut my voxgrill but they literally do the opposite of what SAVED them in the first place, retcon, and somehow suggest the mk10 (oh yeah where is the mk9 btw) borrows from as far back as Mk4 and lastly Mk8? Thats my discomfort, its like they had to open -that- can of worms rather than any other can of worms. And the 'modular concept' and what it resulted in oh god i think i shld take ur advice and just stop here before i get an aneurysm
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:iconironclad00:
Ironclad00 Featured By Owner Jul 19, 2018  Hobbyist Writer
I remember the Phobos armor!  I never thought there was anything wrong with it, personally.  Your problem may have been that you said it had an onboard AI, when AI is a forbidden technology.  Of course, I know you meant the modern definition of AI: expert programs designed to manage the suit's systems, and make it feel like a second skin to the soldier wearing it; in-universe, they would call that a 'machine spirit', and simply require that a techpriest perform regular rituals on the suit.  Honestly, I think everyone else was just upset that they didn't think of it first.

Look, I kinda know how you feel (though I admit not being as versed in Warhammer designs as you).  I've always had an enormous interest in spaceflight.  Naturally, when I was young, I got into watching Star Trek: The Next Generation.  You can probably see where this is going.  As I grew up, I learned more about real-world spacecraft design, and how Star Trek contradicts basically every single principle of it.  But it didn't stop there.  As I learned more about military doctrine, hazmat containment, orbital mechanics - heck, even basic diplomacy - it just got worse.  And the absolute worst part of it all was that it felt like the writers of any of the Star Trek series could have done just a little bit of research, and made everything in their show a whole lot smarter.  In short, it feels like the people making the IP you enjoy care about it a whole lot less than you do.

All that said, I absolutely understand that it helps to talk shop with someone else.
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:icon6atlon9:
6Atlon9 Featured By Owner Jul 18, 2018
My favorite marks were the Maximus and the Errant, so the new Primaris are basically the perfect combination of both. To each his own. <3
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:iconukitakumuki:
ukitakumuki Featured By Owner Jul 18, 2018  Professional Digital Artist
FFS how fortunate can a person be *jealous*
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:iconbobertjuan:
BobertJuan Featured By Owner Jul 18, 2018
I AM ERECT BROTHER!!........... sorry
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:iconukitakumuki:
ukitakumuki Featured By Owner Jul 18, 2018  Professional Digital Artist
Lol erekt for the empraah
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:iconbobertjuan:
BobertJuan Featured By Owner Jul 19, 2018
HELP BROTHER, THE EMPEROR HAS ME PINNED!!!!
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:iconmatthewmcentire:
matthewmcentire Featured By Owner Edited Jul 18, 2018  Professional Digital Artist
I'm not a huge fan of the Primaris marines either. I really liked the MK6 and MK7 armor for how robust they looked. They were a great mix of medieval style armor with a sci-fi setting. The armor's overall design was plain with a functional grit to it that fit the universe really well. It could be spruced up for sure but it always maintained that gothic medieval plate armor look. You know, the entire aesthetic of humanity in W40K. The Primaris marines, however, look far too sci-fi. They lost that gritty, gothic look that reflected the religious devotion of the Space Marines in favor of a much more clean sci-fi design. The armor looks more complicated but not in a good way. It lost its elegant simplicity in favor of a strange layers upon layers look. I particularly hate the breastplate. I agree that the new helmets are a big step back as well. It doesn't make sense to get rid of the voxcaster given the massive gorget they've got now. In fact the MK8 armor was designed with a gorget specifically to fix that issue. Either way, though, I don't think there is anything I like about the Primaris armor beyond the new proportions for the miniatures looking better. But that didn't have to be armor exclusive.

I feel like Warhammer 40,000 in general has been a big step back lately.
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:iconukitakumuki:
ukitakumuki Featured By Owner Jul 18, 2018  Professional Digital Artist
Couldnt have put it better man
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:iconmeisan:
meisan Featured By Owner Edited Jul 18, 2018  Professional Traditional Artist
Cool , your doodle is nice I love this red shade :) it ’a been so long to see your art but worth the wait.
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