Does anyone else find the new Primaris pattern a step backward? I get some of the timeline reference and so that it evokes the Maximus pattern almost to a T except for the inclusion of the awkward 'headphone armour covers' and the gorget that appears in some of the Errant pattern (my fav pattern btw) technical illustrations in the past. I just don't see why they need to remove the iconic Mk/7 'chapel'/voxcaster mouth as I like to refer to it as, and no, I wont have the whole "but the voxcaster is a weak spot" argument. The Mk6 Corvus pattern visually suggested "solving" that but at the same time didn't apparently, hence the succeeding patterns went back to 'mouths'. So the principal of ballistic shaping seems to hardly be a central issue or concept in helmet design in the Imperium of the 41st millennium anyway. Also Primaris marines were vat grown over 10000 years to replace the old guard? Wat. WAT *SOLDIER kurt russell/jason scott lee "YOUR MEN ARE OBSOLETE" movie trigger warning*
I wouldn't call the Primos a step backward, but more of a step in the direction to address complaints about the previous ed's being too scale-short. Thus the Primos are closer to true scale. As far as the overall design, The old Mk 7 has been around a long time, the Primaris could be simply a reflection of a new generation of designers at GW. (My only concern is the "will of the wisp", that 40k may share the fate of the Fantasy Battle line if they don't consistently meet sales targets).
But agreed, on a general level the whole idea of "super Space Marines" miraculously pulled out of some never before mentioned tech priest's (metaphorical) ass struck me as a borderline shark jumping moment to bolster flagging miniature sales. Thankfully, it seems like the Primaris have been primarily hyped on the product side and the lore side seems to have broomed most of that silliness under the rug, so there's that.
That said, thanks for the post, I miss seeing your art around here.
It came to me when reading about the near-fall of Baal when the Blood Angels were nearly completely wiped out and overrun (I'm a BA player myself). Its easy to get all prideful and say 'well we didn't want help from special vat marines' but stopping and thinking about how Commander Dante must have felt when those Primaris Marines started to drop, gun and smash the enemies of man into the dirt.
New ranks to fill tiring legions who are ever overwhelmed and outnumbered by all the continually multiplying horrors of the galaxy. New weapons to smite the foes of the Emperor. Above everything else, a Primarch himself has returned! There could be no greater morale boost to the weary legions in my opinion.
Design wise, I love the new marines. It's a slicker take on an aged design. I'm a bit biased since I like the maximus pattern mask, but what's to say there won't be the opportunity to put the old chapel mask on a Mk10 suit? Miniature wise I'm sure its possible, lore wise I don't think there are THAT many rules with regards to which exact helmet you have on (some don't even wear them and it doesn't affect their armour save haha).
Long story short, Primaris Marines are cool IMO. They look cool, have a noble goal, and honestly add a whole new layer of OG to the old marines. Stories of Primaris having to prove themselves to their chapters of being worthy additions are circulating through a number of chapters' lore at the moment, and that says a lot about why we shouldn't really hate the new Primaris marines considering what they're here to do for the Imperium and what it means for our favourite SM legions in the gander scheme of things!
For the EMPRAH!
The main thing im against is the aesthetic 'evolution' which again seems to depart more and more from the whole walking chapel hilarious wrongness that was the 40k from before. Its just safe and boring for me now, its lost its bite. And while you're right to say that custom modding has always been cleverly part of the lore and hobby aspect, its a different story when it comes to overt marketting art and having to be 'on brand' to push sales of -the- new spess muhreens. That just feels a tad sad, but alas they need to feed the Emprahh so i obviously appreciate that motivation at least. Hehe
So basically the neo-maximus pattern helmet upmodded, is a 'safe' and boring choice. The body, reproportioned, is only too welcome(saying otherwise would be idiocy), but the styling and functionality upgrade arguments are still to me self defeating when seen through fluff/lore lenses.
As for the vatmarines, i dont mind at all, the logistics explains itself and presents a faultless argument. Again, its purely from the fluff pov that it feels poorly implemented, and the fact they kind of shat on their own historical figure line is, almost ironically commendable.
Indeed you do follow me on insta, I must art okay after all
Thanks so much for the in-depth response. So I think I properly understand your position now. I think the issue with the Primaris armour boils down to the strict uniformity of the armour. The key factor here being that your baseline marine is no longer clad in a bespoke armour set/amalgamation of culture-rich historical parts. Instead, we've got a whole new line of armour with no crossover to the previous incarnations. That change is significant and comes down to your point about the cultural/historical/romantic flavouring of standard marine armour, which plays a big part in the space marine as this icon of 40k overall. I am with you on that point.
But as I said in my original comment, it matters what GW does from here to develop all of this, and right now people are acting all old-man-hates-change instead of taking an agnostic approach, because - really - none of us have any idea what direction this heading. My expectation is that GW are planning for the long term, and will release more lines of marines with added variation and historical gubbinz in the years to come. That will result in marines that clearly stand apart from what's come before, but still exhibit that same creative philosophy that has always typified the poster boys of 40k. A break in that creative philosophy will be something to worry about, but it's hard to make the case that that is happening now because the vast majority of 40k is running along much the same as it was, in all respects. I don't agree that 40k is being diluted or has been made less insane at all, but I do think that the major change that the Primaris have been has instigated these sentiments in the community.
As for the techy styling of the Primaris, ultimately it's very much in line with a lot before it, and justified especially with the size of the models themselves. Without many of those details, you would have a lot of unoccupied space and a real lack of visual crunch. The standard Tactical Squad for eg, is very techy. So I don't think the issue is that they are too techy, it's more that there's not that level of encrusted 40k verbosity on top that we have all come to expect. And that goes for most marine armour variants, in that, completely unadorned, they're pretty clearly techy sci-fi suits (Mk 1-3 look intentionally archaic and less techy, of course). The Primaris design for these reasons is no less boring or interesting than the others in my view, but it's baseline build does lack many cultural accents.
I recommend the Dark Millennium novel if you're interested in getting a better feel of the current 40k setting. The book mainly concerns Guilliman and his relationship to a galaxy he doesn't recognise, which is an interesting setup. Guilliman is essentially a modern man (by our standards), and so his dealings with the 40k Imperial culture make for various fascinating conflicts, such as him having to constantly put up with hearing apocryphal tales of his exploits, having his “faith” in the Emperor's non-divinity tested, and setting up a special agency to discover the correct imperial date, only to discover there is no consensus galaxy-wide. Some of this stuff is genuinely funny, but it's clever too. He's resentful of his resurrection and quite lonely, which is not the kind of light you'd imagine a Primarch in. In many ways it's the Horus Heresy coming full circle back into 40k, but everyone's ideals are confused, haha. Despite being a superhuman regent giant, Guilliman's the most relatable character and you sympathise with his predicament.
The sequel to DM sports this cover by Igor Sid >> www.artstation.com/artwork/l08… This, to me, is very much still a full-flavoured 40k
Always loved your work, still do
you also inspired me to draw space marines in 40k
Also, until recentl years I could instantly recognize any 40K army from afar, now I can't count the times I mistook Custodes for Eldar.
I also often wish BL stopped writing whatever comes to mind... Some parts of lore are mangled beyond recognition already
Fantastic doodle, man!
I do have guilty pleasure in the custodes' bolter lance thing
Custodes have a lot of nice things in the designs, but they are not Imperial enough As an Eldar fan I don't like to be fooled into custodes when I click on the Eldar preview.. Even jetbikes!
The OLD maximus pattern was fine as it is, but allow me to just.. vent(hehe).. when i ask why the gorget when it is so high and looks like it is a elegant way to shield up to the nose/eyeline most of the time, still results in the faceplate seemingly getting more armour to the front? Even the sororitas helmet looks fine and fits so well with a high gorget piece no? The visual logic is clear as day and truly evokes clarity of design intent.
Youre absolutely right about the post-rationalising back in the day when they became successful, thats not uncommon in entertainment media and fans like us would be happy to lap it up. But isnt this a modern reinvention? If they presented a design that was never before seen, i would have shut my voxgrill but they literally do the opposite of what SAVED them in the first place, retcon, and somehow suggest the mk10 (oh yeah where is the mk9 btw) borrows from as far back as Mk4 and lastly Mk8? Thats my discomfort, its like they had to open -that- can of worms rather than any other can of worms. And the 'modular concept' and what it resulted in oh god i think i shld take ur advice and just stop here before i get an aneurysm
I feel like Warhammer 40,000 in general has been a big step back lately.