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Orcs Debate, Color by TurnerMohan Orcs Debate, Color by TurnerMohan
as promised, here's the color version of Orcs debate. nothing really new to add to my thoughts about their racial diversity, dress, or armament, except that I hope the colors make that white hand badge on ugluk's breast stand out a bit more, and I expect the tattooed (or possibly branded) eye of sauron on grishnakh's forehead is probably a pretty common sight among the orcs of mordor ( I might have been well served to give that exposed goblin forearm in the foreground some tattoo work as well, body paint/tattoos/decorative scarring/ect. is something I can imagine being widespread in orcish culture, oh well, next time :) )

micron pen & watercolor on paper
10 x 14"
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:iconokaibai:
Okaibai Featured By Owner May 26, 2018
You can really tell the difference between Saruman's Orcs and Sauron's/
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:iconterranovan:
TerraNovan Featured By Owner Edited May 27, 2017
Nice details on orcish equipment: crude, clumsy, and grotesque, but functional, just like their medicine.
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:iconlandofoyr:
landofoyr Featured By Owner Jan 2, 2017  Hobbyist Writer
great work!
may i use it in my blog?
i am writing an article about orcs in my own fantasy world and need artwork!
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:icontedshatner10:
TedShatner10 Featured By Owner Nov 19, 2016
Different but as convincing as the better Orc/Uruk-Hai soldier designs from PJ's trilogies (I liked how the Isegard, Mordorian, and Gundabad forces had this more regimental and quasi-industrial look going for them for example, and that's reflected to a certain extent with the Morder and Isengard factions here). 
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:icongrisador:
grisador Featured By Owner Dec 20, 2015
Great work !
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:iconsavannahparent:
SavannahParent Featured By Owner Sep 26, 2015  Professional Traditional Artist
I love the simplicity of the paint with the complexity of the drawing. Bitchin'.
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:iconturnermohan:
TurnerMohan Featured By Owner Sep 26, 2015  Professional General Artist
Glad somebody caught that. Good drawing skills are a great way to cover up not so good painting skills :p

thanks alot, glad you like it
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:icondecorator2:
Decorator2 Featured By Owner Aug 2, 2015  Professional Digital Artist
super awesome
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:icontfly999:
tfly999 Featured By Owner May 22, 2015
This is a wonderful work of art and I am very glad you colored it! Thank you very much.
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:iconpeet:
peet Featured By Owner Edited Mar 27, 2015  Professional Traditional Artist
Very much a Golden Age of Illustration piece :icongoldenillustration: Turner, and one I therefore like very much. The subtlety of the lighting is what impresses me most here; subtlety that contrasts well with the subject matter, and yet does not interfere with it - on the contrary.
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:iconturnermohan:
TurnerMohan Featured By Owner Jun 1, 2015  Professional General Artist
thank you my friend. I love the golden age illustrators; guys like arthur rackham and such. their time was roughly the same as those victorian historic costume plate collections and the two styles do in some ways remind me of eachother. i guess it was the aesthetic of the age, and it was my hope with this piece (amoung others) to sort of combine the two. glad you find the results favorable
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:iconpeet:
peet Featured By Owner Jun 19, 2015  Professional Traditional Artist
I do indeed! Yeah, Rackham was probably at the head of the pantheon of that generation of illustrators, and in turn he's often cited as being a huge influence on the artists and illustrators that our generation now look up to.
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:iconebe-kastein:
ebe-kastein Featured By Owner Mar 26, 2015  Professional Traditional Artist
Your take on orcs is a good one. Just one reason from many: the movie versions too often look to me like some hapless, overly deformed and therefore unviable creatures. Yours could definitely succeed in any struggles.
Love the toothy *grin* of one of them -- and you caught the play of shadow and fire light just right!
Great colour choices, too.
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:iconturnermohan:
TurnerMohan Featured By Owner Jun 1, 2015  Professional General Artist
thank you my friend, and yes i agree about the movie orcs, it seems in many cases (gothmog, the goblins in the hobbit) the designers were just goind for whatever hideous features they could slap together, with very little rhyme or reason in terms of physiology.
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:icondenis-v:
Denis-V Featured By Owner Mar 16, 2015
I like those orcs more than movie orcs. They are as I imagined them. :D
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:iconlibra1010:
Libra1010 Featured By Owner Mar 12, 2015
 An already-imposing work has been rendered still more impressive by your painting Master Mohan; really, I have no idea how you're going to follow this one up, but as far as Uruks go I think you'll have a hard time topping it!Nod 
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:iconzeonista:
Zeonista Featured By Owner Mar 11, 2015
Nothing really to add on the details of the scene that I haven't already said in the B&W version. I really enjoy the lighting effect caused by the campfire. It starkly highlights the details observed by Pippin in the brief time before heads go rolling. :) Some other things previously also not noticed are brought into focus, like Ugluk's compact White Hand logo and Grishnakh's spiked spangenhelm hooked to his belt via its chin-strap. I am also of the opinion that body marking can be (and often is) overdone in the case of current heroic fantasy art. I'm willing to spot you a little leeway on the idea of such decorations on Orcs because such rough decoration is generally all they can have, and it serves as a comment of toughness as well.
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:iconturnermohan:
TurnerMohan Featured By Owner Mar 11, 2015  Professional General Artist
thank you my friend. glad you think the lighting works, and brings certain details out more. orcs always look good in firelight ;)

as for tattoos, I think I said basically everything I have to say about their use in tolkien's world that i could in one of the comments below.
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:iconzeonista:
Zeonista Featured By Owner Mar 11, 2015
In the original TTT text Pippin saw the quarreling Orcs illuminated solely by twilight channeled down a slope-sided valley towards the edge of the western Emyn Muil. That would have probably back-lit just about every Orc involved in the scene though, which would have not been very useful as an illustration. A little artistic license is readily excused with a fire to make sure the viewer doesn't miss anything. ;) You did pretty much answer the tattoo/brand question, yeah, which is why I kept it brief. Grishnakh would still be one ugly Orc with or without it, so it's all in the appeal of the artist's image. Grishnakh is a good little flunky of Lugburz though so giving him an Eye-mark seems like a good indication of his character. :)
 
 
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:iconcontraltissimo:
Contraltissimo Featured By Owner Mar 10, 2015
This is really cool. :) I love that you took the time to really delve into such an overlooked scene as this.
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:iconesalgueiro:
esalgueiro Featured By Owner Mar 10, 2015
Wow They look so great. amazing work 
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:iconcitizengiants:
citizengiants Featured By Owner Mar 10, 2015
NIIICE
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:iconnoleme:
noleme Featured By Owner Mar 10, 2015
These orcs are so creepy. There's something about the ape-like arms and postures that makes me shuddder involuntarily. Good job there.
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:iconturnermohan:
TurnerMohan Featured By Owner Mar 10, 2015  Professional General Artist
i know what you mean, there's something about humanoid proportions that are off, especially in regressed, apelike ways, that gets under my skin as well. tolkien's descriptions of their horrible faces, long arms and powerful grasping hands always kinda freaked me out.

thanks :)
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:icontroyodon:
Troyodon Featured By Owner Mar 10, 2015  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
This looks like something from the pages of a children's book. And I mean that in a good way of course, I like the classic children's literature style of artwork, reminds of The Wind in the Willows, Peter Rabbit, and Winnie the Pooh. ^_^ (Even though the LOTR is not aimed at children.)
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:iconturnermohan:
TurnerMohan Featured By Owner Mar 10, 2015  Professional General Artist
thank you my friend. orcs/goblins are one of those elements in tolkien's writing (like basically everything else that appears in the hobbit) that can straddle the line between victorian children's fairy tale material, and the stuff of the much older, more serious legends and sagas that inspired them.
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:icontroyodon:
Troyodon Featured By Owner Mar 11, 2015  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
But imagine if this we're a children's story... oh the insanity:

UgluK: I say we order a whole pizza, with pepporoni, mushrooms and olives.

Grishnakh: Well I say we order with pineapples.

Goblin Leader: I got it, let's all have a cheeseburger!

Ugluk and Grishnakh: Shut Up!


Editors Note: I was gonna do something with which way the orcs were going like "I knew we should have taken that left turn on Berkeley" but I am not that creative and wise cracking. :(
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:iconuauauahalo:
uauaUahalo Featured By Owner Mar 10, 2015  Hobbyist
beautiful! for me no new thoughts towards the mentioned themes needed. i have to say i really like the idea of the branded orcs of mordor. to be honest i never thought very much about this posibility... i would tend for a branding coause it's cruel and would fit into the over all image i have of mordor as a terrible place that is feared even by saurons own inferios and also it is much simpler and "practical"  to aply on an uncountable number of orcs (who are not more than resources to sauron, much like cows nowadays).
i remember you discussing about body-painting/tattoos with artigas under his take on turin. if i remember it right you weren't really comfortable with the idea of tattooed edain (i asume that goes also for the eldar). i would be interested if you excusively would give those more "archaic" features to the orcs or are there any other races you would aply them to (the dunlendings for example..)?

my appreciation for your wonderful take on this scene again! i was very much looking forward to see this piece as a coloured version and checked out DA more than once a day to see if it's finished and uploaded yet. it definitly was worth it, you more than fullfilled my expectations (even if now that you mentioned it, i would love to see your take on orcish tattoos, body paints and decorative scarring!,i realy hope to see more of this soon.)!
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:iconturnermohan:
TurnerMohan Featured By Owner Edited Mar 10, 2015  Professional General Artist
yeah, i'd painted the Red Eye on grishnakh intending it to be a tattoo, but as i thought about it the idea of the orcs of mordor (maybe not all of them, but certainly some) being branded like cattle (or like criminals in ancient times) seemed really appealing to me. i imagine grishnakh and the others might have other marks or designs on their bodies as well.

I think tattoos are a thing you have to be careful with in tolkien's world, they're easy to overuse. I'm not opposed to them in middle-earth, but i try to keep in mind that we live in a time when tattoos are quite popular, and as a result i think you often see them overused in historical/fantasy designs, as in actuality they've often been quite sparse throughout history, depending on the culture and the time (shows like "Vikings" bother me for this sort of reason) that said, for orcs they're pretty solid, as orcs seem like the kind of culture, relative to the "enlightened" eldar and edain, that would be into tattoos; they're kind of "savages" in the european-reckoned sense, there's shades of military and prison society to them, and they're quite tribal/clan-oriented and like to present this face to the world of being "bad" and not to be fucked with, and all of these are the type of cultures and people that were into tattooing before it became as mainstream as it is today. similarly i could see other "unenlightened" creed-oriented people in middle-earth tattooing their bodies; the dunlandings, possibly the pukel-men, probably plenty of people out east, even the edain before (and possibly even after, to some extent) being exposed to the noldor and largely emulating them (the designs i put on haleth during her meeting with caranthir were originally intended to be warpaint, but they could easily be permanent tattoos on her, certainly the real life ancient celts - on whom my take on the haladin and their later relatives/descendants in eregion is largely based - were into the practice)

I'm very delighted and gratified to hear I have as committed fans as you. I'm currently in the planning stages for another orcish piece, in which you will definitely be seeing some more extensive use of body art.
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:iconlord-phillock:
lord-phillock Featured By Owner Mar 10, 2015   Artist
whohohoaaa that is so well colored!
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:icongabbanoche:
Gabbanoche Featured By Owner Mar 10, 2015  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
Now this is badass :D I like the eye of Sauron on the Orcs forehead!
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:iconancalinar:
ancalinar Featured By Owner Mar 10, 2015  Professional Digital Artist
I suddenly feel very colourblind because I do not see the white hand nor the eye tattoo...

Do you ever see them slipping into quadrupedal motion while running, given their limbs? It seems almost inevitable if they're trying to get some distance across wide open plains of Rohan, as those stubby lil' legs won't be of much use to them.

And, reading from your longer description on the inks, how did you pinpoint the medieval period? Perhaps my perceptions are coloured by the movies/more recent illustrations, but I would never see hobbits as part of that era, but rather straddling Georgian and Victorian era farmer "fashion".

Anyway, love the insights as usual. :]
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:iconturnermohan:
TurnerMohan Featured By Owner Mar 10, 2015  Professional General Artist
well the white hand's not easy to spot (it's under where those straps across ugluk's chest criss cross) but the eye of sauron on grishnakh shouldn't be too hard to spot.

i tend to think of orcs as fully bipedal reatures, though i go with alot of ape like influences for their physiques, their legs are definitely longer and more geared toward standing two legged than apes are. i'd guess though that it's not a far stretch for orcs, especially that goblin type up front, to go on all fours when scurrying up some rocky formation in their subterrenian homes

i would seat the medieval period as running from basically the 1000's to the mid 1400's, i don't believe i mentioned hobbits as being medieval (i mentioned that the men of bree and dol amroth seem to be, somewhat) georgian/victorian is about where i'd put the hobbits as well. they were tolkien's most common audience proxy and as such come off like the greatest anachronism in middle-earth as a culture; whenever they leave the shire they seem to be going back in time, entering into that more archaic world of old school beowulf-style heroes and monsters.
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:iconancalinar:
ancalinar Featured By Owner Mar 10, 2015  Professional Digital Artist
Ha, those elements are quite the subtle details, but I got them now ...though I never would've found the hand without your guidance! :b

And in the larger writeup you described the whole of Middle-Earth a world on the verge of its medieval period, so I figured that included the Shire as well.
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:iconjessica42:
Jessica42 Featured By Owner Mar 10, 2015   Writer
Simply magnificent (have to run I'll try and post a more detailed post latter) :D
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:iconninkskoir:
NinkSkoir Featured By Owner Mar 10, 2015  Hobbyist General Artist
Very realistic and extremely detailed! Amazing work! I definitely agree about tattooing and marking. 
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:iconmaccyjoe:
Maccyjoe Featured By Owner Mar 10, 2015  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
Very cool!
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