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Till the Rhine
By Tullamareena   |   Watch
103 27 10K (2 Today)
Published: September 29, 2016
© 2016 - 2019 Tullamareena
*DISCLAIMER: The things depicted in my art does not represent my political views! It is merely art that explores alternate historical outcomes.*

This map looks at the appearance of plans promoted my French extremists towards the end of WW1. Part of the plan was to re-annex (like Napoleon) the land west of the Rhine to France and Belgium, completely. The new, additionally longer border between Belgium and France is the Moselle River, with France gaining departments it once had under Napoleon, and Belgium extending to the Rhine (with the new territory split between Flanders and Wallonia). In my map, I arranged for Netherlands to receive some gains aswell; the new province of Rijnland (Rhineland). Here are some links to the copies of the original maps:

www.europeana1914-1918.eu/de/e…
commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fil…
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Comments27
anonymous's avatar
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vorarlberger's avatar
These borders are similar to an other alternate history concept in my mind. Prussia looses in 1866 as France intervened after it went bad for Austria and France fought on Austrian side and Prussia finally lost.

Prussia has to cede all Western territories. A new Kingdom of Westphalia is formed from Prussian territories east of Rhine, the parts west of Rhine are delivered between Belgium, Netherlands and France.
Tullamareena's avatar
Yeah that's a more historical and maybe realistic way of obtaining such borders. My scenario uses a bit more modern timeline, since it's based on the 1918 extremist French claim.
bubrezi's avatar
I understand that the names on the map are names in English, but still... :)
The language in areas ceded to the Netherlands and Belgium is Germanic, and IMO the new names should be in Dutch.
Aix-laChapelle -> Acken
Cologne -> Keulen
Cleves  -> Kleef
Coblence -> Koblenz

Also, I don't think that Wallonia would be expanded to Plattdütsch and Franconian (both Ripuarian and Moselle) speaking areas, east of present Wallonian border.
IMO, Germanic speaking areas ceded from Germany to Belgium should be incorporated in Flemish part of Belgium or maybe even make a third, Frankish part (Eupen, Malmedy, and Sankt Vith included)
Tullamareena's avatar
Yeah, I guess I could've used the Dutch names to emphasize that those areas would now be Dutch, but I used the English exonyms in the end because the map is in English. A Frankish region might be more interesting in that case rather than a big Flanders.
bubrezi's avatar
Do you thing such Belgium would survive all the tensions between (then) three ethnicities?

This is the localy spoken Frankish dialect, and names of the province and cities.
ksh.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ripoari…
Tullamareena's avatar
I think it wouldn't survive; in the long term, at least. There would eventually be a referendum, and the local people would still feel German,despite the promotion of Ripuarian language and culture.

If it stays intact to this day, then English might have adopted the local place names, like it did with many cities irl.
Scipia's avatar
Nice idea, I wonder how would've look like these new départements nowaday, if they would've keep their original German population francized, or if they would've been expelled (like in former East Germany/ current West Poland). And also if they would've been part of Lorraine's région, or part of a new Rhénanie's région.

There is some small mistakes in the French names of départements, it's Haute-Marne and Eure-et-Loire :)
LoreC10's avatar
oh well, by now it doesn't make anymore difference if they were in Alsace or Lorraine, the Grand Est will simply take over XD
Scipia's avatar
Nah, it's an alternate history, so the uggly and stupid reform of our régions would've likely be butterflied away ;p the odds were already very unlikely to imagine Hollande president 6 years ago (it's mainly due to the Dominique Strauss-Kahn scandale & antisarkozism), so in an alternate history I don't think we would've get him as a president ^^
LoreC10's avatar
Hopefully XD

by the way today the new name of Midi-Pyrénées-Languedoc-Roussillon became official, you now have Occitania! (who knows what next) ;)
Scipia's avatar
Yeah, most of the new regions get their new official name yesterday.
I don't really like the name Occitania for this region, if in medieval era it was just the latine name of Languedoc, nowaday it's a greater area. And Roussillon isn't occitan. But it's still better than "Hauts de France", have you seen our new ugly logo ?
LoreC10's avatar
That's true but at least it testifies that the conscience of their Occitan identity is still present there, even if very feeble, if not else Occitania is better than a cold geographic-related name...
omg, I didn't noticed it at first, Hauts de France is horrible, and even your new logo seems more a commercial one than a noble historic symbol :o (Eek) 
Scipia's avatar
Yep :-/ they did a so-called vote on internet, but because they fear that Nord stay in the name, they give 3 options (Hauts de France, Terre du Nord & Nord de France), so they were sure that pro-nord vote would be divided in two. And they didn't suggest any historical name in this vote ...
And they say this name was chosen by people, what a farce ...

 Yes the new logo just look like the logo of the region Centre-Val de Loire too, they didn't even put a Beffroi even if it's the most known symbol of our region ...
LoreC10's avatar
If it makes you feel better in Aquitania they did worst, the majority of people just wanted that the region was called Grand Aquitaine (because it matched quiet well the former Roman province) but since the regional parliament couldn't decide itself they just formed a (unuseful -_-) specific commission (handsomely payed by the people, double -_-) to decide if the name was ok or not (as if their opinion was more important than the one of peoples who live there) and at the end the commission (which "of course" couldn't just confirm the name chosen by the people) said that Grand Aquitaine gave a sentiment of superiority and so it was not good (WHY??? is it so bad to celebrate its own region?), and that they had to call it New Aquitania (I don't know, did they move it on Mars or in another content or what?) 

I mean, they could even modernize it, that's ok, but I think that they should have included an historical symbol in it at least...
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Tullamareena's avatar
Thanks. I don't think the French government of the time would go as far as a full-on expulsion, but Francisation. Maybe the region of Alsace would be extended down along the Rhine, and Lorraine gets the rest.
Oh, thanks, I'll fix those errors asap. :)
Scipia's avatar
I could imagine a greater Alsace yes, historically this region have more territories in the north (Landau by eg use to be Alsacian) :)
Arminius1871's avatar
Expelling was never french style, they frenchized usually^^
French are not barbars.
Scipia's avatar
Yeah, I know, I just want to hear it from foreigners, you know how egocentric we are ;D
Arminius1871's avatar
Aww get all my love <3 :FRflag: 
LoreC10's avatar
wouldn't Wallonia reach the Rhine too?
Tullamareena's avatar
I wanted to add most of the new territory to Flanders, because it is linguistically closer to it. The idea being that the Germans assimilate to Flanders easier than to Wallonia.
LoreC10's avatar
It is linguistically closer but I would probably dissent on the part that the assimilation with Dutch would be faster than with French, in addition there's such a short distance between Wallonia and the Rhine that is so a shame that Wallonia couldn't reach the Rhine XD
RafnMaps's avatar
RafnMapsHobbyist Digital Artist
Interesting^^ :)
anonymous's avatar
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