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Nudity issue solved

Sat Mar 3, 2012, 10:41 AM by Inna-Vjuzhanina:iconinna-vjuzhanina:
Dear raiders, a week ago we posted a blog asking for your opinion on the nude content in the group. We want to say a big thank you for your extremely active response to the blog and participation in discussion. We carefully read all the opinions that were expressed and analyzed everything thoroughly when making our final decision. But before we announce the verdict on this issue let us announce the overall results first. According to the response you left on the blog the opinions divided into two groups –  :bulletred: 36% are totally against any kind of nudity and wish not see it in the group; :bulletgreen: 64% - do not mind it as long as it’s in category of “artistic nudity”.

The percentage of people who appreciate beautiful nude pieces prevails and we could have easily let things stay as they were, but we know that the subject of Lara’s nudity is a very touchy issue and people who don’t mind nudity in general do mind it when it comes to lady Croft (so naturally they can’t turn Mature filter off when browsing dA and then turn it back on when they get to group’s inbox or gallery), so a compromise was found.

From now on:

- you will not be getting nude pieces into your inboxes;
- we cleaned our galleries from all the nude artworks;
- rule considering nudity has been changed.


However people who do enjoy and appreciate artistic nudity won’t be deprived of this pleasure. We created Mature Folder and moved all the mature pieces there. The artworks from this folder will not be getting into your inboxes so people who are not OK with nudity won’t be bothered anymore, but those who do like it can check the folder any time. To make things more convenient to you we placed the button leading to the folder right at the top of our front page. If you hit the button you know yourself what you’re gonna see and you agree with that.


Mature Folder Submission Guidance:

Variant I. Open the deviation you want to submit. Hit “+” button on the right. In the appearing window hit “Suggest to group’s favorites” then choose the group and corresponding folder (“Mature Content”).

Variant II. Hit “Favorites” section in the group then hit “+” button in the Mature Content folder.  


Thank you everyone for participating and making this decision so much easier on us. We hope you're happy with it and that you find it a fair compromise.

Skin by JAMsEye and Inna-Vjuzhanina
Special thanks to marioluevanos
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:iconcapndeek373:
CapnDeek373 Featured By Owner Apr 15, 2012  Professional General Artist
"63% - do not mind it as long as it’s in category of “artistic nudity"

That would technically make them "mis-cats",
as Tomb Raider fan art should be placed in the "Fan Art" category, when submitting.
Reply
:iconpencil-stencil:
Pencil-Stencil Featured By Owner May 3, 2012  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
sorry for the late reply, we didn't catch your comment before :la:

when referring to the category of "artistic nudity", we don't imply that it's a category for submissions on deviantArt. there is no such category (as far as i know) because this is a site devoted to art so anything submitted should be considered as artistic. when someone says artistic nudity category they mean it's something that most people would categorize as such by their own preferences and observations.
:)
Reply
:iconcapndeek373:
CapnDeek373 Featured By Owner May 3, 2012  Professional General Artist
I'm just saying that when submitting art and "Please choose a category" comes up,
"Fan Art" should be the first place submitted to, then the appropriate sub-categories after that.
Any Lara Croft art not in Fan Art is a mis-cat.
Reply
:iconpencil-stencil:
Pencil-Stencil Featured By Owner May 4, 2012  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
well yeah, that is correct but that really has nothing to do with artistic nudity because artistic nudity doesn't exist as a (sub)category on dA :)
Reply
:iconcapndeek373:
CapnDeek373 Featured By Owner May 4, 2012  Professional General Artist
Only under photography.
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:iconpencil-stencil:
Pencil-Stencil Featured By Owner May 4, 2012  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
oh! didn't know that :D
Reply
:iconcrimsomnia:
crimsomnia Featured By Owner Mar 14, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
Good job! I believe everyone is satisfied this way :)
Reply
:iconashz22:
ashz22 Featured By Owner Mar 7, 2012  Student Digital Artist
A very well thought out solution that should please everyone including me.:thumbsup:
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:iconinna-vjuzhanina:
Inna-Vjuzhanina Featured By Owner Mar 8, 2012  Professional Digital Artist
We're happy you like it :salute: :blowkiss:
Reply
:iconmadenice:
Madenice Featured By Owner Mar 6, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
A great solution to all, I guess :)
Reply
:iconinna-vjuzhanina:
Inna-Vjuzhanina Featured By Owner Mar 6, 2012  Professional Digital Artist
Glad to hear that :aww:
Reply
:iconmadenice:
Madenice Featured By Owner May 18, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
Np :)
Reply
:iconsari-croft:
sari-croft Featured By Owner Mar 6, 2012
:thumbsup:
Reply
:iconinna-vjuzhanina:
Inna-Vjuzhanina Featured By Owner Mar 6, 2012  Professional Digital Artist
:salute:
Reply
:icondarc4ssass1ncmd:
Darc4ssass1nCMD Featured By Owner Mar 4, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Well, that sounds like a good :idea: hunnz.....:boogie:. Still not to take it out tho....was a good thought....nude is nude no matter what the taste is of it. But i say that just putting them in there own folder as it is...and not to be seen unless you want to see it is down right kewlbeans with me. As it is.....thats what its about.....either you 18- or 18+ you know you have the best of both worlds. Love it or hate it....Lara Croft being a #1 heroine....is always going to be just that.....XD....nude or no nude.....:rofl:. So it great to know that everybody is just plain ol happy.....:happybounce:.....:lmao:.

Because to till you the truth.....i was quite one to hate on Nude Raider....and ever website who posted.....so i was wild about the topic too. Then after thru all the years....of just loving her for what she is....then seen one of my great cosplayers to do nude pix. I lost it.....:faint:.....it just something myself i got over on....my :love: for Lara is always going to be uncondititional....clothes on or off. I do say i don't like too much sloppy Nude Raider stuff....if it ain't good to be....i just X it out also....just plain nasty.....ewwww......:puke:. So only a few i do like.....as long as it is cute or overall quite eye catchy. I only speak for myself as everybody does.....least i know we still have a good place to post it.

Overall- :iconnewlaplz:------:iconangrynoplz:
Reply
:iconpencil-stencil:
Pencil-Stencil Featured By Owner Mar 4, 2012  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
:D
Reply
:icondarc4ssass1ncmd:
Darc4ssass1nCMD Featured By Owner Mar 4, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
;).....:blowkiss: to ya hunnz (and not to forget good ol Aida V2.2....:rofl:....:dummy::icondummydanceplz::dummy:. Well don't worry bout me....i'll never be mad at yall two....:iconangrynoplz:....:nod:. Thanks for this wonderful best Tomb Raider group i'll ever talk about....everything is so fluid in here....:faint:. Things you don't see much in groups....a true self owned TR group yet to see. Keep up the great work....its a classic in the making. :worship: Tomb Raider Empire.....:iconrainbowpukeguyplz: :shakefish: :squee:.
Reply
:iconpencil-stencil:
Pencil-Stencil Featured By Owner Mar 4, 2012  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
:rofl: thank you! :blowkiss:
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:icondarc4ssass1ncmd:
Darc4ssass1nCMD Featured By Owner Mar 4, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
The only Tomb Raider place that makes me :iconrainbowpukeguyplz: all over.....:lmao:. As that goes for two loving TR fans and cuteness of yall.....make me go :iconexcitedlaplz: too. :ohmygod:...:wow:...i even get a :kiss: from my Madien...haha....:faint:....:rofl:. :jawdrop: :shocked: XD
Reply
:iconcurlywurly808:
CurlyWurly808 Featured By Owner Mar 3, 2012  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
I was pretty indecisive about the issue ^^;, even after posting two comments I still pondered on whether nudity bothered me or not. In the end I suppose I only had a problem with disrespectful pieces but not nudity on the whole.

As for the results, it's been handled very well in my opinion.

Nudity hasn't been completely excluded, so the people interested in the pieces still get to see and submit them, but they're also out of view for others who aren't interested. The major positive in the change is that, despite the percentage of for and against, you haven't simply picked sides based on which had higher results instead you have come to a more than fair conclusion without eliminating anyone's opinion.

Overall - :iconawesomefaceplz:
Reply
:iconpencil-stencil:
Pencil-Stencil Featured By Owner Mar 3, 2012  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
yes, that was exactly our goal! :D thank you!
Reply
:iconcapndeek373:
CapnDeek373 Featured By Owner Mar 3, 2012  Professional General Artist
There's a big difference between nudity and partial nudity.
And there isn't an "Artistic Nude" category in "Fan Art".
Any Tomb Raider fan art that is not in the dA "Fan Art" category is a mis-cat.
Reply
:iconpencil-stencil:
Pencil-Stencil Featured By Owner Mar 3, 2012  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
there is a difference, yes... but i think that when putting on a filter you have to choose if the warning is mild, strong or explicit (or something like it) though i don't know if that shows before you open an artwork which has been tagged. in any case, i never thought of it that way, but they might put an 'artistic nudity' category for that, yes.. although the thing is, many fanart depictions of characters (in general, not just Lara) are way more than just sensual, artistic nudity :D so i don't really know..
Reply
:iconphotolight:
photolight Featured By Owner Mar 3, 2012
Sweet now if I want to see Lara Naked there is a whole category so I can just admire her beauty! :dummy:
and for the times I just want to see her Kicking some butt with some clothes on I got that too.
I like this comprimise :)

we were all born naked, clothes are nothing more than an accessory
Reply
:iconpencil-stencil:
Pencil-Stencil Featured By Owner Mar 3, 2012  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
yep :D glad you liked it! :D
Reply
:iconforty-fathoms:
Forty-Fathoms Featured By Owner Mar 3, 2012  Professional General Artist
Personally, I feel the solution is bizarre and ridiculous because if you are a true artist and you aware that Lara Croft is a sex-icon as she has been since 1996, then you wouldn't mind partial nudity as long as it was in good taste of the character itself and in the art industry anyhow. No one is asking anyone to favorite the pieces at all. My opinion is, if you don't like the artwork that has some nudity, either get over it, or see it and click the 'x' button and continue your browsing, it's that simple.

I myself am not the biggest fan of nudity, but even I know that Lara has associated herself with it for quite some time now and if people are just now having an issue with it, they need to learn that it's in not only her character, her history, but also has tons of sexuality in her games. The Tokyo dress from Japan is one. The ass-short nightgown from Tomb Raider II is another for example and that doesn't even begin to climb the walls for the renders made by Core back in the day or the associations with her sexuality in other crossovers and games. In the comics, she's been naked many times and been featured with other characters showing partial nudity. People can look it up, I've read them. There's one where she's naked in a bathtub and gets out and somewhat has the towel around her.

The point is, people need to get over it and just accept that everyone has opinions and ideas and if they can't handle, leave. My group obviously has a Mature art folder, and I make sure I accept that the stuff that is either tasteful or comical to the character. People have tried to submit her vagina to the group and I said no to them because it was raunchy although there are naked pictures of Lara that have been does as well tastefully.

There is a reason deviantART has a mature filter and rating on it. If you don't want to see, press 'x' and move on.
Reply
:iconshadowyzman:
shadowyzman Featured By Owner Apr 3, 2012  Professional Digital Artist
Couldn't agree more!
Reply
:iconinna-vjuzhanina:
Inna-Vjuzhanina Featured By Owner Mar 4, 2012  Professional Digital Artist
Well I think telling people to get over it is what really ridiculous. Lara’s nudity has always been a big problem for many TR fans and when analyzing feedback we got on poll and blog we just got convinced in that once again. That’s a big sore spot for many people and it hurts when that spot gets hit. Fans won’t get over it and we respect that.

I agree that people who are artists themselves won’t mind nudity as long as it’s a brilliant artwork. That’s what Ana and I feel too – we appreciate great pieces of art and there’s no difference for us either it’s photo or painting, all art forms are equal for us and we respect each one.

So that is why I think the decision we made is the optimal one. People who mind nude Lara won’t be bothered with such pieces in the inbox (you know that Mature filter won’t become an ultimate savior here for the reasons that we’ve already explained) and those who enjoy great nude pieces can always check it in the special section where we carefully collected brilliant pieces. Well just the fact that the folder turned out to be not so numerous proves that we’ve been really picky when choosing the pieces. :D Sorry you didn’t like our final decision, but we tried to find compromise btw. two groups of fans with radical opinions and judging from the response we’re getting we’ve succeeded. :)
Reply
:iconshadowyzman:
shadowyzman Featured By Owner Apr 3, 2012  Professional Digital Artist
I rarely ever draw nudes, let alone Tomb Raider nudes. But the concept of Lara Croft played on the sex card to begin with. Just like Bayonetta, where the creator of the character was shocked and offended to see raunchy artwork of her online. Well when you make a game where the character is dressed in a specific way, and in Bayonetta's case her clothing is shed every now and then with camera zooms to her genitals and her butt, what the hell did he expect? I think the group made the best possible compromise but I really think this isn't something to get so upset about considering a lot of what the TR team themselves have done with Lara's character in the games, comics and the movies.
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:iconpencil-stencil:
Pencil-Stencil Featured By Owner Mar 3, 2012  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
the problem with art on dA is that a majority of nude Lara artworks don't depict her only in sensual, acceptable poses. i agree with what you said about nudity filters, that's why in the query that we posted in the previous blog we put the statement 'I am not too fond of nude artworks but I don't mind because I simply ignore those submissions/have the mature filter on.'

The thing is, people generally do like and appreciate artistic nudity and that's why they don't have the filter turned on. But they just don't like it when it comes to Lara Croft and simply don't want to see that kind of art, so 'sacrificing' the artistic nudes that they would normally like to see only for the sakes of not seeing nude Laras is ridiculous i guess. i personally don't have a problem with nude Lara but i agree with you (i kinda feel like i'm repeating myself because i was just replying with a very similar answer to another member :lmao: ), but i completely understand the other half. and even though they don't prevail, they are still a substantial group of people. and if so many people agree about one fact - that nudity when it comes to Lara just doesn't feel right to them - then i guess there is a reason for it.

as for the only sensual and acceptable pieces that i mentioned earlier - we try to be objective when figuring out what is sensual and acceptable, but as admins who appreciate art in general can't limit ourselves to only a towel wrapped up around Lara's naked body - some pieces are more and some less explicit and as we personally may not mind a full nude where Lara reveals everything, many other people might find that too much, way too much :XD: and i think it would be ridiculous to start dividing nudity by the degree, we'd have to make more and more folders for soft nudity, stronger nudity, warning-explicit nudity. that's the problem, we simply can't indulge every single member. they will just have to deal with it, and after observing the answers of people we realized that the best solution would really be to spare them of nudity in their inboxes. and for those who like and appreciate it are just one click away from an entire realm of mature art. i think that's pretty great for those who like to see it. we didn't make a separate folder for mature art as a bad thing, as if it was 'banished' from the other folders :lmao: it was just placed on a special place, with a clear warning that it's 18+. those who want it will click it and enjoy, those who don't want it will strongly ignore it. :) also, we have members of all ages, beliefs and principals. when i was younger i was simply disgusted by any form of nudity regarding Lara. i thought that those night gowns and towels and sheets were very sensual of course, but i would accidentally stumble across nude Lara all over the internet and felt like throwing up. we have to keep in mind that we have younger members here too. of course, they should turn the mature filter on if they mind it, but on other hand they mind the mere idea of their heroine being depicted in a way so i guess they couldn't fully enjoy their inbox with a bunch of forbidden and censored stuff among other art.

woah, sorry for the huge walls of text. i just didn't know how to explain in less words :lmao: but in any case, anyone else who is interested or not satisfied with our decision can read it and maybe get a better idea of why we did it. :)
Reply
:iconmeldelen:
Meldelen Featured By Owner Mar 3, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
Very, very wise decision. Congratulations! :) And of course, thank you for listening the members' opinions :D
Reply
:iconpencil-stencil:
Pencil-Stencil Featured By Owner Mar 3, 2012  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
Thank you, glad that people respond positively :D
Reply
:iconaleru-92:
Aleru-92 Featured By Owner Mar 3, 2012
i do not agrre with the solution... but its the closest thing to a fair solution for all. So i wont complain...
Reply
:iconpencil-stencil:
Pencil-Stencil Featured By Owner Mar 3, 2012  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
why, do you prefer to see nudity among all the other folders or not to see nudity in the group at all? (i'm just curious, the changes we made are final).
Reply
:iconaleru-92:
Aleru-92 Featured By Owner Mar 3, 2012
well id prefer to see it. I think that the auto censorship that Deviant Art had obliged at us is enough for this case. People who have their "adult filter" on, wont see it anyways... and if they have it activated, they should not complaint. I dont think that the group needs to censor again that kind of artworks separating it in hidden folders as if they were something bad... its art, and i have not see any bitchy or distasteful piece of art in this group yet that would enter in that category.


Buuuut, i guess that my opinion (and the people who thinks like me) is incompatible with the opinions of other people.. so there is a conflict to solve and this is the most "fair" among all possible solutions.
Reply
:iconpencil-stencil:
Pencil-Stencil Featured By Owner Mar 3, 2012  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
i personally agree with you, but opinions are divided and i completely understand the other half. and in that case, we really have tried to provide with the best possible compromise. as for the nudity, we realized that people generally don't mind it, even appreciate it - that's why they turn the filter off. BUT, they don't like seeing Lara Croft nude, hence why they complain. i guess that turning on the mature filter just not to see nude artworks of Lara would be too much of a 'sacrifice' compared to other art. i suppose that a majority of us aren't on dA to appreciate only Tomb Raider art :D
Reply
:iconluna-fantasma:
Luna-Fantasma Featured By Owner Mar 3, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
I'd like the folder of nudity also appears in the list of folders when you go to the gallery.

I dont get it why some peple are so close minded when it comes about nudity but I dont like the character to be identified as porn at all. If I am about to paint Lara naked, I would always do in an artistic way, but if there are more extravagant works, as long as it's not offensive for the character's image, it shouldnt be a problem.

For me, those who dont wanna see nudity at all are .... I dont wanna say that word or you'll hide my comment ^^; but I exposed my opinion.
Reply
:iconpencil-stencil:
Pencil-Stencil Featured By Owner Mar 3, 2012  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
i wouldn't say they're closed minded, obviously many people feel of the nude Lara issue that way so i guess it's quite understandable :) a few years ago i was one of them but in time i stopped minding it. anyways, what is done is done, and we feel like it's a good compromise. you can check those artworks by hitting the button on our front page any time, and also when you're done with your nude painting put it there :D
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:iconthe-fantasy-goddess:
The-Fantasy-Goddess Featured By Owner Mar 3, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
I like it, I think this is a really good change! :dance:
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:iconpencil-stencil:
Pencil-Stencil Featured By Owner Mar 3, 2012  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
thanks! :D
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:iconthe-fantasy-goddess:
The-Fantasy-Goddess Featured By Owner Mar 4, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
You're welcome!
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:icondinasan1:
DinaSan1 Featured By Owner Mar 3, 2012  Student Interface Designer
Good solution! :clap:
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:iconpencil-stencil:
Pencil-Stencil Featured By Owner Mar 3, 2012  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
thank you, we're glad you think so! :D
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