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Keep The Flame by timsplosion Keep The Flame by timsplosion
Abolish ICE.



Lyrics from Grace Petrie's song, You Build A Wall.
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:iconkarkovice1:
karkovice1 Featured By Owner Jul 8, 2018
I see you're heard those stories, too. :(
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:icontimsplosion:
timsplosion Featured By Owner Jul 9, 2018  Professional Filmographer
Yeh, and reading about the number of cases this is happening to is sickening. And that's before we even get to the whole "asking 1 year olds to represent themselves in court" thing.
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:iconkarkovice1:
karkovice1 Featured By Owner Jul 10, 2018
I can understand Zero Tolerance, when it comes to illegal immigration; but when it comes to any minor children in their care, where do you draw the line?

It seems to me that Mr. Trump has NO line! Typical psychopathic behaviour, if you ask me! :P
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:icontimsplosion:
timsplosion Featured By Owner Jul 10, 2018  Professional Filmographer
Frankly, "zero tolerance" is a misnomer anyway. Every person caught in the US without legal status is charged and deported anyway, so there was always zero tolerance. What's changed is that everyone caught crossing the border now gets detained for the entire time their status is determined, whereas before those who make a credible asylum claim would be released once their case was determined to be credible to live relatively freely (but still not legally able to work) while their refugee status was either confirmed or denied, and families were kept together as per executive orders issued under Obama. Both of those are now upended, so you have a growing number of people detained (at cost to the government) when they otherwise wouldn't be, and you have children as young as a few months old being pulled from their parents and kids as young as 1 being asked to represent themselves in court.

To say Trump has no line is nearly indisputable at this point. Narcissistic sociopath to the core.
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:iconkarkovice1:
karkovice1 Featured By Owner 6 days ago
And this is EXACTLY what gives the U.S. a bad name! :(
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:icontimsplosion:
timsplosion Featured By Owner 5 days ago  Professional Filmographer
Eyup.
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:iconsupercj1:
supercj1 Featured By Owner Edited Jul 2, 2018
Time, love your art buddy, but you really need to stay out of politics. These people are coming here ILLEGALLY. What are they fleeing, Poverty, Corruption,  well guess what, THEY KEEP VOTING FOR IT, The United States of America is not here to be a catch basin for people who's backgrounds we don't even know fleeing countries they ruined because they voted for POS politicians (like Venezuela). It is not our job to let these people in, yet they have the privilege to come here legally, fill the paperwork, pay the fee, and wait in line like so many thousands do. Also, what about them, the people who worked their asses off to come here legally, they work hard, pay taxes, and they see these illegal migrants coming right across and going straight on our welfare system, which by the way is going to run out of money within 8 years because of all the illegal immigrants who are on it.

Also, the children who were separated from their parents were treated a hell of a lot better than disabled vets at a VA location during the Obama years. Next time you want to show something political that can and will alienate your viewers, do what most Trump Supporters continue to do every day,  DON'T INVOLVE POLITICS!
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:iconscyphi:
Scyphi Featured By Owner Jul 3, 2018  Hobbyist General Artist
Overlooking the various problems in this comment, I'd like point out that if America really doesn't want people trying to enter the country like this, then maybe they should do something about why all these people are fleeing their own countries to come to America in the first place. You know...the poverty, war, gang fights, drug wars, general threats to their safety and safety of their loved ones, etc. If they have no reason to leave their countries, then America, by extension, has a by far smaller immigration problem, illegal or otherwise.

I'm not saying America needs to solve everybody's problems for them, of course, but surely there's more than could be done to address the REAL core of this problem.

Further, regardless of whether their illegal or not, how they're currently being treated with this stupid zero-tolerance policy is truly abhorrent. There are far better ways to handle the problem...this is not it. Short and simple. Period.

Also Trump won't be the one who will fix the disabled vets problem, and I doubt any of his supporting politicians will, either. Just saying.
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:iconsupercj1:
supercj1 Featured By Owner Edited Jul 9, 2018
Why should we, WE, as in THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, are a foreign body that doesn't have to do anything, yet despite all that, we give more charity than any other country in the world, we are the Military that has, and keeps, EUROPE from being invaded, and we are the FREE-ist country in the world that forces its citizens to have more rights than any other country in the world. We don't owe these people coming here anything. They keep voting for their own government bodies that keep failing them, maybe they should fix there own country rather than trying to come to MY country. I am a US CITIZEN, I have the right to say i don't believe these people coming illegally should be allowed in. My ancestors came here LEGALLY, so did almost ALL IMMIGRANTS from the past until recently in history, and i say enough is enough, either come here legally, or you shouldn't get in.

Also, that girl from TIME magazine they were trying to blast trump with, HER MOTHER LEFT HER HUSBAND AND TOOK 1 of her multiple kids with her to come here, what about him? what about the daughter he will never see again, and the wife that betrayed him? HE was the one that came out and said it was his daughter and wife, yet hes the one who's still in South America actually making a good living according to him, in which case, brings up the question why she left him and took one of her many kids to here when he made good money, because if that's the case, the economic question as to why they are here just got thrown out the window, and would make her a child kidnapper.
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:iconscyphi:
Scyphi Featured By Owner 6 days ago  Hobbyist General Artist
Well, first of all, I don't know if I'd phrase it as America forces its freedom on its citizens. I'm all for freedom, but I'd rather think that America is the "free-ist" because it's citizens wanted it to be, not because they were forced to be. All America as a nation does is guarantee its citizens the right to enact upon those wants. If, for some reason (and I'm not saying we ever will or that it'd ever be a good idea (heaven forbid!), this is just an extreme example), the citizens all decided they did NOT want that freedom anymore, then strictly technically the nation would be obligated to support the right to choose that.

But, you know, semantics.

As for the rest, I already said my piece. Whether or not you take anything out of it is your business, because as you correctly say, you have that right. Just like I have the right to adamantly disagree. But as you also say, nothing will change to resolve what I personally disagree about it if I don't speak up, say something about it, show support, vote for supporting measures, etc. So I did. But that's me. The rest after this point is up to you.

Though I will say that you assume these immigrants seeking asylum even have any say in what goes on in their governments. It IS possible to corrupt a supposedly democratic government to the point that the ability to vote becomes more or less meaningless, and it's sadly quite widespread still. What, if anything, can be done about that is for the future to decide, but this and other points are still very much worth keeping in consideration when assessing the problem, no matter which side you lean towards.

And as for this girl in TIME magazine, I don't know much of anything about this, so I can't reasonably comment on it. Whatever the people involved have or have not done, though, that does not mean all or even most are guilty of similar things. And the statistics (which I have been keeping read up on) all suggest it's really not as widespread as certain parties like to suggest. So to assume they are all automatically and without evidence is, well, basically bias by definition, and arguably racist, depending on how such unfair assumptions are assigned.
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:icontimsplosion:
timsplosion Featured By Owner Jul 3, 2018  Professional Filmographer
"The United States of America is not here to be a catch basic for people who's backgrounds we don't know fleeing countries they ruined because they voted for POS politicans."

Now why does that sound so familiar...

"It is not our job to let these people in, yet they have the privilege to come here legally, fill the paperwork, pay the fee, and wait in line like so many thousands do."

Um... If they fill the paperwork, pay the fee, and wait in line, then they're coming legally. Literally the process for seeking asylum is show up at a port of entry or police station, make asylum claim, have interview, be detained while they verify your claim, and wait for refugee status to either be accepted or denied. That's the process. That whole waiting part? That's background checks, identity checks, criminal record checks, and basically making sure that everything is 100% legit. By the time that's done, we know their background. Previously, most who do this would be released while their refugee status was processed unless they were thought to be a flight risk or a danger to the community, but now that's happening in a much slimmer minority of cases, hence the exponential build up and urgency of it now.

"... they see these illegal migrants coming right across and going straight on our welfare system..."

Firstly, the US welfare system is not something to be proud of. It penalises those in poverty so harshly, and frankly even if the Republicans weren't deliberately underfunding it in order to justify privatising it, it would still not be fit for purpose.

Secondly, you can't claim welfare in any country without a valid social security number from that country - something you only get when you migrate legally (which I know cos I got a Social Insurance Number when I moved to Canada back in 2016 after presenting Service Canada with my visa, which they checked - no visa, no number). So how exactly are they doing that with no legal status in the US? And if they're forging it, then when they get caught they'll go to jail and/or be deported - I'm not arguing against that, cos that is committing fraud.

"Also, the children who were separated from their parents were treated a hell of a lot better than disabled vets at a VA location during the Obama years."

Vote in a government that will properly fund the welfare state and then the veterans will get what they need. It's not an either-or situation. If the US can afford to spend an entire Switzerland on it's military, it can afford to lift it's former soldiers out of poverty AND fund refugee programs. Maybe the US should stop voting for POS politicians.

"Next time you want to show something political that can and will alienate your viewers, do what most Trump Supporters continue to do every day,  DON'T INVOLVE POLITICS!"

Hi, you must be new here. My name's Tim, welcome to my page!
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:iconsupercj1:
supercj1 Featured By Owner Jul 9, 2018
Wow, you need to do more research about asylum seeking and what is required for you to seek asylum, you cant seek asylum because of your economic status.
Yes, they are getting welfare using phony SS numbers.
Yes it is an either-or system right now, because guess what, WE ARE NOT THE WORLD PIGGY BANK, WE CANT NO LONGER CONTINUE TO BE ONE, WE ARE OVER 20 TRILLION IN DEBT.

President Obama DOUBLED the debt under his "leadership", and now trump is doing what he can to fix that, and ill give it to him, hes going a hell of a job. Even if democrats oppose him, he will drag this country back into being a great country again whether or not its screaming or kicking. Also, I'm not alone in this argument, You need to look up how many LEGAL HISPANIC immigrants oppose illegal immigration, here's a hint, more than you think.

So, here's a suggestion, maybe do what Republican and Conservative Trump voters do, and continue to do, keep your politics to yourself or be tolerant to the other side. That Blue Wave that you drew is the wrong color, its going to be red, again, because right now the left is losing this exact argument. I don't care if your a democrat, but don't say that a law enforcement branch of the government, aka Ice, is a problem, as well as not knowing the full extent of the illegal immigration issue, when maybe you  have absolutely no idea what goes on and what ICE goes through to keep people safe. Just last week they busted a Child Sex ring run by illegal immigrants, you will not sully them, they do magnificent work.
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:icontimsplosion:
timsplosion Featured By Owner Jul 10, 2018  Professional Filmographer
Please point to the quote where I talked about economic migrants. Literally nothing of what I said there even mentioned that. I'm talking about people facing real and legitimate threats of violence in their home country. Y'know, like actual asylum seekers.

And like I said, using false SS numbers is already illegal, so anyone caught doing that is right to be in trouble.

And the solution to the national debt is to pour millions into housing hundreds of thousands of asylum seekers and border hoppers as well as building a massively ineffective and incredibly expensive wall is it? Couldn't possibly be the Switzerland's worth of cash poured into the military, could it?

Also, again, you're ignoring that most of the people detained at the southern border are those seeking asylum, not just hopping the border for the grand old life of fruit picking or house service for rich people. That's part of the issue here, that the failure to differentiate between border hopping and asylum seeking is growing to be such a problem that people can't seem to separate the two in their mind. People who are doing what is required of them in order to seek refugee status are being met with the assumption of guilt - an assumption that allows the separation of families even in cases where that's not appropriate.

And man, you say "be tolerant to the other side", as if I'd said "I'M GOING TO PERSONALLY CENSOR EVERYONE WHO SUPPORTS BORDERS EXISTING". All I did was use my free speech - as is my right as a citizen of a democratic country - to support a political cause I believe in. You're free to have your viewpoint - you're as free to think I'm wrong as I am to think you're grossly oversimplifying the issue, and we're both free to express those view points. Why should I self censor to save the feelings of those who disagree? Are the feelings of Trump supporters more important than my right to free speech and stand up for what I believe in?

If I see that the government has done something wrong - especially when a government agency goes as systemically broken as ICE has - I'm going to call it out on it's bullshit. And I'm not saying the investigation wing of ICE doesn't also do good work. Like, I know that most police officers are genuinely wanting to protect and serve and don't seek out situations where they get to shoot people - but if the militarisation of police is leading to people getting killed I'm gonna call out the police force on that. It's the same with ICE. There is a systemic problem that is inhumane and in some areas actively illegal. It's more wrong to not say something in cases like that, especially if you actually want what's best for the country.
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:iconphoenixflambe:
PhoenixFlambe Featured By Owner Jul 2, 2018
What is ICE?
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:icontimsplosion:
timsplosion Featured By Owner Jul 3, 2018  Professional Filmographer
Immigration and Customs Enforcement. A federal agency created in 2003 as part of the whole post-9/11 Patriot Act kick, designed to militarize the US border, merging the Immigration and Naturalization Services department and the US Customs Service. Under the Obama administration they were given free reign to operate nearly constitution-free within 100 miles of the border (an area covering over 60% of the US population). Despite warnings at the time this was kept in place, and is now being weaponised under the Trump administration.

Now that the public and the press have turned their attention to ICE, there's been a number controversies all come out at once.

The most well known is the separation of children from their families at the border. The children are then taken into the custody of the Department for Health and Human Services, ostensibly to find a relative in the US to release the child to, but in some cases children have been legally adopted by another family while their parents cases were processed by ICE, and when those parents get released they realise they can't get their kids back. The separation between ICE and HHS also means kids get lost in the lack of communication between the two. ICE is unable to account for over 1000 of the children they separated.

Trump, supposedly, wrote an executive order ending family separation, but this order only applies to new cases, so those already separated are out of luck, and also raises the potential for indefinite detention without charge or processing, something that is supposed to be outlawed in the constitution (remember that 100-mile constituoon-free border zone?).

Other issues in the spotlight recently include the deportation of legal migrants to the US and even some US citizens, and the illegal blocking of potential asylum seekers from accessing a port of entry in order to begin their asylum claim process. Those issues have not been addressed by the Trump administration.

This has all picked up recently due to the zero-tolerance policy the Trump administration brought on in April 2017, whereby all attempts to cross the border outside of ports of entry (and even a good chunk of those at ports of entry) automatically lead to detention and separation for the entire time their case is processed. Asylum seekers, once their claim is accepted as legitimate, used to be released from detention while their refugee status was officially confirmed, but that is now much rarer under the zero-tolerance policy, leading to a build up in the number of cases this is happening in. The Trump administration is in the process of increasing detention capacity into the hundreds of thousands.

So yeh, that's your basic run down of the ICE situation.
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:iconphoenixflambe:
PhoenixFlambe Featured By Owner Jul 3, 2018
Then it's not ICE, it's Trump.
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:icontimsplosion:
timsplosion Featured By Owner Jul 3, 2018  Professional Filmographer
Yeh, but the legal powers imbued upon ICE that allow them to do this predate Trump. And at this point, ICE's reputation is so far in the mud that even if they reformed a rebrand might be necessary.
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:iconggg123666:
ggg123666 Featured By Owner Jul 2, 2018
that seems a liiiittle extreme, but I think I know where you're coming from. No one wants the kids to suffer.
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:icontimsplosion:
timsplosion Featured By Owner Jul 3, 2018  Professional Filmographer
Exactly. And there's no point punishing the kids for the mistakes of their parents.
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:iconrevolvah:
Revolvah Featured By Owner Jul 1, 2018
So you are in favour of allowing people to ILLEGALLY cross into other countries with no background checks or documents at all? I'm sure the all women/child traffickers would just love you. And do not give me that "undocumented migrants" or whatever you choose to call them crap. Dress it up however you want: it's against the law put into place = illegal.

I have no problem if people want to migrant to another country to start a better life but there are proper and legal ways of going through that. It's the ICE agent's job to make sure those that DO NOT follow these rules gets punished. If those people that they caught have to be deported THEN THEY HAD NO RIGHT TO BE THERE IN THE FIRST PLACE!   
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:iconsupercj1:
supercj1 Featured By Owner Jul 2, 2018
Here Here!!
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:iconsomewhatokdrawings:
somewhatokdrawings Featured By Owner Jul 2, 2018  Hobbyist Digital Artist
So true
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:icontimsplosion:
timsplosion Featured By Owner Jul 2, 2018  Professional Filmographer
I'm sure that's great comfort to the lawful permanent residents who ICE have arrested and deported/attempted to deport.

Not to mention all the refugees who attempt to seek asylum legally at a port of entry only to (illegally) be told they can't have their applications processed there, and for whom the only route to seeking asylum is by going through a port of entry. I'm sure making the legal means to access asylum won't just incentivise people to cross the border illegally - because prohibition always works, right?

And I suppose it's fair to punish the kids for their parents' "mistakes", is it? Not like that does lasting psychological harm or anything.

People are following the rules, and they and their children are being punished for it on a systemic level. That's not ok.
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:iconrevolvah:
Revolvah Featured By Owner Edited Jul 2, 2018
Oh so you know for a 100% fact that ALL these children are not victims of cartels child trafficking ring, do you? Or the supposed "parents" as well? Or you think that just because an adult shows up with a child is all you need to be granted entry to any country? This video helps explain the whole situation a lot better then I could in one nice little package: www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LTdbG…

And you use The Guardian, Washington Post and Time of all things for your facts when I know for a fact these rags and their "Journalists" are extremely basised in their articles and are thus not trustworthy. There's a reason why more and more people are losing trust in mainstream news, pal. Best you wake up.

Clearly there is no convincing you if you think letting thousands, if not millions of illegal migrants into another country is going to have zero consequences or if you think a group of people who are just going to end up leeching off the welfare is SOMEHOW going to be better for the economy. You keep on dreaming.

In Europe, we have seen the reality and it has NOT been pretty. Rape/grooming gangs, no-go zones, forced Sharia law in certain areas, having your culture picked apart piece by piece for being too "offense", police not willing to do jack shit out fear of being ousted as racists the list goes on.       
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:icontimsplosion:
timsplosion Featured By Owner Jul 3, 2018  Professional Filmographer
"Oh so you know for a 100% fact that ALL these children are not victims of cartels child trafficking ring, do you?"

There are processes in place to catch and punish child or human traffickers, to establish that the adult's relationship to the child is genuine and that their asylum claim is legitimate. Those processes should be followed and anyone falling foul of them should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. But that's not the same as locking up EVERY asylum seeker while their application processes and keeping families separated even after they've been confirmed as being related. You're trying to make this about an issue that it's not.


"... no-go zones, forced Sharia law in certain areas..."

If you actually believe those two are true then frankly I can go ahead and throw out everything else you say, because those are total bullshit and are far-right lies.

And as for the rape/grooming gang issue, yes, that is bad, and more needs to be done to protect vulnerable children. It is worth noting though that group sexual assault makes up a relatively small fraction of overall child sexual assault. In the UK "abuse by lone offenders is much more common than abuse by groups. According to CEOP, “25 [police] forces identified a total of 2,120 lone perpetrators involved in either suspected or confirmed cases of non-familial contact child sexual abuse in 2012. In comparison, all 31 forces reported a cumulative total of 65 group and gang associated offences.” Grooming gangs should obviously be prosecuted to the full extent of the law, and any cultural element at play needs to be counteracted effectively - but that effective counteraction does not include locking up asylum seekers and separating families.

And also how did you get on to the anti-Muslim rhetoric from a discussion largely focused on the US's southern border? Are there fundamentalist Muslim nations in Central and South America that I wasn't aware of? Even if I pretend the bullshit no-go sharia shit is real, it's irrelevant to this debate!
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:iconrevolvah:
Revolvah Featured By Owner Jul 3, 2018
Yes I do believe in no-go zones. Particularity in Sweden. All you need to do is type "No-go zones Sweden" and boom! Plenty of evidence from all different sources! But I guess each and every one of these must ALL be far-right propaganda, right? Even the ones with interviews with the actual police.

But my point was not anti-Muslim. My point was trying to let you now the dangers of letting in thousands upon thousands on unchecked immigrants just based on "but it makes me FEEL better!". Just like other news outlets, you use the crying child in the cage as an emotional trigger with no context. Ever ask yourself why these kids are in those places in the first place? Because they were caught along side an adult who may or may not their actual parent who may or may not be apart of some underground sex trafficking ring. This is the EXACT propose of these centers! I'm sorry the kids have to spend some time in a cage while all the details are being fleshed out. Immigrants have been known to skip/escape these centers in the past so unfortunately the cages are necessary. Some kids and their parents are just going to have to be uncomfortable for a time. But if you're looking for someone to blame or feel angry at, look no further than the (supposed) parent(s) who willingly knew what they were doing was both dangerous and illegal.

The cages themselves are only temporary though. As if the children are shown to be without their parents then they are taken to facilities such as the one shown here: www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcNXI5…. Where they're taken care of as best they can with comfy beds, food, TV, video game, etc. Until a parent or foster parent can be arranged. So no. They're certainly not being thrown into cages like common criminals and then left to rot there until the mean ol' ICE agents decide to throw them out like yesterday's garbage as you make it out to seem. 

This is what Fox news anchor Laura Ingraham meant when she said these places were "Just like summer camps!". But that's not how it came across in the mainstream media, was it?            
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:icontimsplosion:
timsplosion Featured By Owner Jul 3, 2018  Professional Filmographer
The precision with which you cherry picked information from that CBS video is astounding. Did you watch it with the audio off or something?
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:iconrevolvah:
Revolvah Featured By Owner Jul 3, 2018
That was merely an example of one such place, there are plenty of other facilities all trying to take care of these kids. But sure, keep believing all children are still stuck in cages forever and ever. Keep driving that narrative, buddy.    
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:icontimsplosion:
timsplosion Featured By Owner Jul 4, 2018  Professional Filmographer
Frankly, how long they're in cages is sort of irrelevant. Listen to the other points in the video - some of these kids have had no contact with their parents for over a week. Many of the parents are saying they have no idea where their kids are. Even when the parent is deported back to their home country, their kid is kept in the US. And the kids in the video are in the 5-10 range, right around the start of when kids are more psychologically capable of coping with separation from their parents (although the video also makes clear that the kids are upset whenever they're not distracted from their separation), but the tender age shelters deal with literal babies and infants, kids going through vital points of their lives where they should be learning and learning healthy emotional connection, but instead are in neverending daycare with a revolving door of changing adults who I very much doubt have the time to give every child the attention and nurturing they need to develop in an emotionally and psychologically healthy way.

The cages are the most attention grabbing part of the whole travesty, but they are just the tip of the iceberg, a starting point for a whole slew of sinister injustices.
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(1 Reply)
:icondrchrisman:
DrChrisman Featured By Owner Jul 1, 2018  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
Um no....
First off, how would you like it if a wave of Americas came to your country illegal 
Second, Open Borders do not work
Third, Kids in cages is grossly inaccurate  
Fourth youtu.be/7s0sGPtokfY?t=21m35s and www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ixgX7…
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:icontimsplosion:
timsplosion Featured By Owner Jul 2, 2018  Professional Filmographer
First - if they were fleeing war and persecution, I would pressure my government to give aid and shelter to as many as possible.

Second - unless you believe the US had open borders before 2003 (spoiler alert: it didn't) then abolishing ICE is not the same as opening the borders.

Third and fourth - I've seen the videos, I've read about the numbers, as well as specific cases. What's happening is wrong and is mostly catching those who are trying to go through legal channels and punishing them as much as those who don't.

There's no point arguing, you can't change my mind and I doubt I can change yours. Especially if you're citing Sargon of Akkad as if he's a reputable source.
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:icondrchrisman:
DrChrisman Featured By Owner Jul 2, 2018  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
alright then, let's see Canada abolish Canada Border Services Agency, knowing Trudeau he love to do that
(also Sargon of Akkad has reputable sources)


ICE works, get over it:)
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:icontimsplosion:
timsplosion Featured By Owner Jul 3, 2018  Professional Filmographer
If you think abolishing ICE means opening the borders, do you think the US just didn't have border security before 2003? Spongebob Squarepants is older than ICE. ICE can be replaced with something better, more humane.
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:icondrchrisman:
DrChrisman Featured By Owner Jul 3, 2018  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
your argument is because it not that old we don't need it?
Well times change (and your Canada Border Services Agency is just as old)

beside that policy was around even before ICE under Bill Clinton

and clearly your idea of inhumane is alot less then what truly is
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:icontimsplosion:
timsplosion Featured By Owner Jul 3, 2018  Professional Filmographer
It is replaceable.

And my idea of humane doesn't include doing lasting psychological harm to children by separating them from their parents, or incarcerating people while their refugee status is determined.

Plus, even if the reintroduction of family separation wasn't a Trump policy (hint: it was, as part of the zero tolerance policy enacted in April 2017) that doesn't actually change that what is happening is wrong and has to stop.
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:icondrchrisman:
DrChrisman Featured By Owner Jul 3, 2018  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
they broke the law, even citizens are separate from their kids when they brake the law
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:iconsupercj1:
supercj1 Featured By Owner Jul 9, 2018
Here Here! Best comeback!
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(1 Reply)
:iconsomewhatokdrawings:
somewhatokdrawings Featured By Owner Jul 6, 2018  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Final a person who knows how the real world works 
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(1 Reply)
:icontimsplosion:
timsplosion Featured By Owner Jul 3, 2018  Professional Filmographer
A huge number of the people involved - probably most - are asylum seekers waiting to have their refugee status confirmed or denied. Seeking asylum is not illegal.
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(1 Reply)
:icon01100001-01110010:
01100001-01110010 Featured By Owner Jul 1, 2018  Hobbyist Digital Artist
heeyyy it's my favorite commie how have you bended
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:icontimsplosion:
timsplosion Featured By Owner Jul 2, 2018  Professional Filmographer
Wassup my man! Not sure I'd call myself commie but whatever. I'm not too bad at the moment, how's you?
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:icon01100001-01110010:
01100001-01110010 Featured By Owner Jul 4, 2018  Hobbyist Digital Artist
hey man, so what do you call yourself man , I'm just wondering.
For me a little family drama uh
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:icontimsplosion:
timsplosion Featured By Owner Jul 5, 2018  Professional Filmographer
I guess democratic socialist is probably the closest. Honestly I don't really think capitalism needs to be abolished, but it's obvious at this point that it's broken and in need of reform. And I'm just not optimistic enough to be an anarchosyndicalist. But reforming capitalism with democratic socialist ideas? That sounds more doable.

Ah, fair enough. Hope it all plays out ok.
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:icon01100001-01110010:
01100001-01110010 Featured By Owner Jul 5, 2018  Hobbyist Digital Artist
okay, for me I'm a Constitution republic, where you have life liberty and the pursuit of happiness
-but sadly democracy is just a stepping stone to a oligarchy, also in democratic is Majority rule all, and
-in a socialist everyone is poor, starving, and doesn't works about 4 times
-hear I quote ''I don't really think capitalism needs to be abolished, but it's obvious at this point that it's broken and in need of reform.''
do you mean let business back they'er right, so no more gender quotas and affirmative actions.

thanks man
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:icontimsplosion:
timsplosion Featured By Owner Jul 6, 2018  Professional Filmographer
That first point sounds like you're anti-democracy. I'm not sure that's how you meant it, but that's how it comes across.

Also, the kind of socialism I'd like is the one that you'd find in Scandinavian countries like Norway. Free healthcare, free university, heavy public investment in clean energy, low poverty, livable wages. The only reason believing in that is called socialism is because every time I've tried to explain that that's what I think would be good, I get called socialist for it.

No, businesses, particularly multinational ones, are the ones breaking capitalism. Since the 80's they've effectively broken the trade union movement, meaning people have no means to collectively organise for higher wages. That's how you get Amazon's CEO being the richest in the world while his warehouse workers collapse from exhaustion and end up mentally ill from the stress of poverty. That's how you get Apple's CEO showing off the new iPhone while their workers jump out the windows of their factories. Unaccountable private power has flexed it's muscle to the detriment of the majority of people, and we need accountable public power to rebalance the scales in favour of average Joe. The power difference between today's financial elite and the man on the street is so vast it's a wonder the whole thing doesn't just flip upside down. Free marketeers claim that trade unions damage the free market, but I'd argue that unions are an important part of the market because they allow the labour force to set their own market rate for their work. Every other aspect of business gets to set their own prices, why shouldn't the workforce?

Also gender quotas and affirmative actions are slightly different issue. That's more about rebalancing from past injustices than it is specifically about the problems of capitalism.
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:icon01100001-01110010:
01100001-01110010 Featured By Owner Jul 7, 2018  Hobbyist Digital Artist
please watch this 
  youtu.be/gl-j163g-KY?t=629
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:icontimsplosion:
timsplosion Featured By Owner Jul 8, 2018  Professional Filmographer
"But these are all capitalist countries..." < That's basically all I need to hear.

Because yes, the main examples given are capitalist, but they have within them strong workers rights and publicly owned and run welfare and infrastructure. Whenever those policies get suggested in American political discourse, they get attacked as "socialist" or "communist". So fuck it. If Norway's free healthcare, free childcare, free university, reformed prison system, and green investment are going to be attacked as socialist, then why not just call myself a socialist for believing in it?
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(1 Reply)
:iconsomewhatokdrawings:
somewhatokdrawings Featured By Owner Jul 1, 2018  Hobbyist Digital Artist
What are you trying to say with this?
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