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Decisive Action by the-least Decisive Action by the-least
Small preview of the 2008 calendar for my webcomic, Crimson Dark. [link]
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kiml42 Featured By Owner Apr 13, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
This looks very impressive. I like it when ships take real damage in scifi.
iulian28 Featured By Owner May 23, 2010
nice scene :)
grimdrifter Featured By Owner Feb 25, 2009  Professional Digital Artist
Well, great artwork. I don't think I will stray into this minefield of debate around it, but I will say I really enjoyed this sequence. In a lot of movies, I find it disappointing that the intimidating mob figure is allowed, for story reasons alone, to be spared, just so he can cause trouble later. I totally am for mercy, but I found this sequence to be a realistic reaction to the threats posed by the mobster. Not all the good guys act like saints all the time.
newepoch Featured By Owner Nov 8, 2008
Nice illustration... but if you are serious about speculative space battle, then this scene is a ridiculous fantasy.

Direct ship to ship fire only makes sense in the event of the victim being totally incapacitated. This would make this scene a war crime, and hardly something worth commemorating in a painting.

I recommend you study the history of modern Battleships, and how sea battle tactics evolved with the introduction of air craft carriers.

It is probable that an engagement between two large war vessels such as the kind you have illustrated, would occur over a great distance using smaller fighter craft. The chances are the mother ships would not be close enough to see each other. Rather boring, but plausible.

BTW the tracer fire, explosion, and shipboard fire as illustrated are not possible in a vacuum.

You probably think I am being a smart ass here, or at least a pin head, but frankly I am sick of Sci Fi illustration that blindly follows the stale conventions of popular Hollywood space fantasy.
djomally Featured By Owner Feb 23, 2009
you're wrong about fire being impossible in vaccum, it can exist but only for a split second.
oh and before you make a call like this about his work why dont you actually go read his story on his website.

also i have to correct you. the ships in this shot are not Warships. the one firing on the other i believe is a medium sized Corvette or frigate. the other i think is a corvette as well.
any way your whole comment here was a bit dickish. you think you know what your talking about when in all actuality you don't.
and on another note, i recommend YOU go study modern battleships because you clearly have no idea what you're talking about when it comes to ship to ship combat. i will agree that most navel combat occurs at a distance, but there have been times when they get up close and personal.

so next time you make a comment like this, be sure that you now all the facts and are not just making assumptions. oh and Hollywood sci-fi may be unrealistic but it still makes for good entertainment.
newepoch Featured By Owner Feb 24, 2009
Than you for you most comprehensive posting.

Having viewed a lot of real space footage over the years I can tell you that rockets fired in space do not produce visible flames. I accept your point on fire in principal. In practice any flame produced vanishes faster than a human can blink so its probable that no flames would be observed in most circumstances.

I was making a comment on the image in its own right, and the technical assumptions behind the image. It is perfectly legitimate for me to do this without any reference to any supplementary text based work.

In fact I had no idea there was a related story. I came across the image in a third party collection, and there was no reference to a text story in the description box.

Since the ships depicted are fictional, your designations and vague references to the scale of the ships are a matter of personal interpretation. What exactly do you mean by 'medium sized'?

In reality, scale and distance is very difficult to judge in the vacuum of space because there is no atmospheric aberration of distance objects.

AT THIS POINT IN YOUR COMMENT YOU DESEND INTO PERSONAL INSULTS WHICH IS VERY DISAPOINTING. You know nothing about me. An you do not strengthen your argument by speculating on what I am thinking or what I may or may not know.

There ARE no 'modern battleships'. A battleship was a mobile fortress, who's defensive design depended on heavy external armor of the outer hull and selected parts of the superstructure. Armor was made made an obsolete defense strategy with the invention of the armour piecing shell. This fundamental design characteristic has been extinct since the end of world war two.

Battleships were phased out in favour of destroyers and aircraft carriers, neither of which can be called 'battleships'.

Since WW2 there have been many minor sea conflicts involving ship to ship and ship to shore fire, BUT these are not major engagements where the limits of the technologies have been tested in concert. BTW Cruse missiles don't count for the purposes of my original argument. It has to be conventional artillery fire.

I would appreciate it if you didn't make any assumptions about me as a person in future. It is unnecessary, immature, irrellavent, erroneous and rude.
djomally Featured By Owner Feb 24, 2009
i apologize for insulting you man, it wasn't what i had intended to do, i really mean that.
when i said your comment seemed dickish i meant that hahaha, but after posting i went back and read it again and realized i was a bit more of an asshole than i wanted to be^_^ so for that im sorry.

anywho..... im not sure when this happened but before the Mir Station was dropped(i think it was Mir) there was a fire on board that extended to the exterior and caused minor damage to the Station itself, the point i was trying to make is that the only way fire can exist in a vacuum is if Air itself is being vented from the vessel in question.
when the venting stops the fire stops.:D

as for the ship sizes, the One with the wings is probably about (roughly)the size of a large fishing boat(maybe a bit larger) (like from deadliest catch) i believe the max crew is 8 or 12, ill have to go check his site again. so its not very big. as for distance from ship to ship, probably no less than 400-500 feet from eacother. and yes it was a war crime hahaha, but they had a good reason to do it.

as for making the reference towards "battleships" you are correct i should have used another term such as Destroyer.:D

and for the record in the future i will be sure to watch the way i come off to others ;) once agian sorry for being an ass.

btw you should really go read his Web Comic man, its very entertaining [link] you should start from the beginning though :)
newepoch Featured By Owner Feb 25, 2009
Thank you, no problem. I appreciate the thought you put into your comments. I also expect a lot from people whom I know can think. :)

Yes it was the Mir. What a shit that such a wonderful mission had to end like that. What really pissed me off was how the western press made such a big deal of the docking accident without mentioning the outstanding operational record of Russian automated supply ships over the preceding decade. Literally hundreds of missions without a hitch.

Thanks for the heads up on the web comic. I have a lot of time for graphic novels. :)

Don't be a stranger. Talk to you soon.
djomally Featured By Owner Feb 26, 2009
same to you man :)

and yeah the Russians have been doing more then great with their Space Program where as we .... not so much hahaha
newepoch Featured By Owner Feb 26, 2009
The pragmatism of Russian thinking works well in space. Make it work, keep it simple, make it cheep and make lots of it.

Have you seen the inside of the one man Russian moon lander? It looks like a shower recess on the inside. Its almost totally automatic: a few valves and pipes here and there. There is a documentary film called 'The Russian Right Stuff' that is truly amazing.

They could never have won the space race, but I think their technology has proved to be more practical in the long run.
Acidbl00d Featured By Owner Feb 6, 2009  Hobbyist Digital Artist
what the ...
you dont even know the story behind it so you cant judge it like this.
the ship could have allready been incapacitated

and why a battle over great distances
close distance has more effective weapon damage. and if you saw star wars you know that close range battle is possible
such scenes are also often used in games

and space fighters??? look better dude
they are to small to have a squadron of fighters
and besides i dont see any docking bays

and such battle dont neccesarily need fighters
starships like those in star trek they are big as well do they have fighters ? NO
djomally Featured By Owner Feb 23, 2009
the one winning this battle has one bay and its only big enough for one fighter(which it has ahah)
and i agree though im not a fan of star wars.
Acidbl00d Featured By Owner Feb 24, 2009  Hobbyist Digital Artist
many ships that size have a bay with a size for only one fighter

or maybe a landing craft to go to a planet surface for example :P

and your right up there
vacuum does exist ye for that split second
surely cos the air in the ship gets blown out
djomally Featured By Owner Feb 24, 2009
that's exactly why Fire can exist in a vacuum until the air is finished venting from the ship the fire will exist.

the reason i know it has a bay is because i read all of the comics on his site :D
Acidbl00d Featured By Owner Feb 24, 2009  Hobbyist Digital Artist
yea :P

reminds me to read some of the comics :P
djomally Featured By Owner Feb 24, 2009
you haven't read them yet ^_^
Acidbl00d Featured By Owner Feb 25, 2009  Hobbyist Digital Artist
no lol havent had time :P
newepoch Featured By Owner Feb 6, 2009
Thank you for a most passionate and detailed reply.:)

True. I don't know the story behind it. I was simply commenting on what I saw, in relation to my past experience of this kind of image.

So, to address your points. Continuing to fire on a totally incapacitated ship is a war crime, and an act of cowardliness. I stand by this point. In the history of naval warfare, such an act has never been celebrated.

My comment is void under the following conditions:
If the ship was already evacuated, or its presence represented an imminent navigational hazard to friendly ships, or if it represented an imminent re-entry hazard to a planetary body.

Star Wars battle senes are invalid because they are based on WW Two dogfighting during the battle of Brittain. This battle had unique caracteristics that would never be encountered in an interplanetary war. Chief among them was the proximity of both enemy states, which enabled direct fighting between short ranged fighters.

The only valid historical precidents for space battle are the aircraft navel engagements of the Pacific War. Both enemies were so far appart, the use of 'mother ships' was essential.

The great Pacific battles were games of suspecence and luck more than anything else. Fighters go out searching for the enemy. Once the enemey is found the battle becomes a race to see who can wipe out who's mother ships first. Mother ships are impossible to defend (sorry Battle Star Galactica) because they are basically floating fuel tankers and magazines. One lucky shot and the whole thing goes up. That is what happened in the Battle of Midway.

The strategic defence of a planet would never occure in orbit of the same planet, because the enemy could easily cause catistrophic damage to planetary infrustructure simply by tossing rocks and junk into the atmosphere. No energy weapons or nukes required. If the enemy gets close enough to throw stones, the battle is over. The Star Trek TNG Borg Battle at Wolf 359 makes perfect strategic sense in this context.

Space battles would always occurr over great distances because space is so big and on the whole rather dull to look at %99.99 of the time. Take the asteroid field between earth and Mars. It is so large that any craft passing through would be lucky to ever see a single rock, let alone a scene like the one in Empire Strikes Back.

A debris field that dense, would have to be artificial, because it is unsustainable over geological time scale. The rocks would be pulled together rapidly through gravitational forces. On the other hand a debris field that dense could NEVER be artificial, because a weapon like the death star is simply not possible. The amount of energy required to disperse a planetary mass into asteroids is beyond the scope of any technology. You need the explosive force of a supernova. Forget it. It's a silly tech fantasy. There is no conceivable technology capable of controlling that level of energy.

To review, Star Wars dog fighting makes no strategic sense, unless you want to throw reason out the airlock.

Most classic star ship design is based on 20th century atmospheric aircraft and aircraft carriers. The problem with this is ships that never need to withstand reentry do not need streamlined hulls, aerofoil wings, or hulls that can withstand external pressure or repel projectiles. Streamlining may look good but it adds a huge amount of mass to a ship. The more mass you have, the more power you need to maneuver and stop a space vehicle.

Armour is useless in space because the only effective way to neutralize the mass of a super fast object on a collision course in micro gravity, is to avoid it or deflect it. No amount of physical armor will stop a grain of sand moving at 50 miles a second, let alone a directed enemy weapon.

Real space fighter's must be able to react and maneuver like flys. (I don't see humans as we exist today surviving the G forces involved, or reacting fast enough.

Unfortunately the only existing pure space vehicle, the Apollo LEM is not very sexy to look at. But its paper thin outer hull makes perfect sense.

The Borg cubes are probably the most plausible pure space vehicles in popular speculative fiction. But their design depends on the existence of energy fields.

I love speculative fiction. I want to see it brake new ground, and the artist's on dA represent the cutting edge from around the world. This is why I seem so harsh. I want our generation of artist's to make the last generation look like naive amateurs. In the words of Leonardo Da Vinci. 'Ti's a wretched pupil who does not surpass his master.' We MUST be better, to honor the great achievements of the past.

Speculative fiction has paved the way for the future for nearly 150 years now. We need it now more than ever, to help meet the challenges that face us today and tomorrow.

Please understand I am not selecting your image here for any special reason. Nor is this comment perfect in every detail. My comments could apply to most of the Star Ship images on dA. I am simply trying to stimulate some 'out of the box' thinking here.

with respect

Philip :)
Acidbl00d Featured By Owner Feb 7, 2009  Hobbyist Digital Artist
my my you know pretty much :)

i didnt know SW battles were based on WW2 ...

well yes motherships are hard to defend especially those in battlestar gallactica lol

and yes the death star is pure fiction
such thing will never exist in reality

and actually i agree on you in this post.
but i have to say some things are fiction and will stay fiction

and you gained my respect :D

p.s. i do love sci-fi and futuristic scenes :P
newepoch Featured By Owner Feb 7, 2009
May the power of imagination be with us all!

Personally, I love your work.

Professionally, I think everyone with your talent needs to push the envelope...dare to fail!

ANYTHING you can imagine, you can do!
Acidbl00d Featured By Owner Feb 8, 2009  Hobbyist Digital Artist
hehe yea

i try various things ...
i dont like all my works , could allways have been improved
newepoch Featured By Owner Feb 11, 2009
I know the feeling. :)
inmc Featured By Owner Oct 28, 2008  Professional Digital Artist
This picture has been featured in this [link] news article.
Kourash Featured By Owner Oct 11, 2008
Awesome ship designs you have here man
TheHiddenPhoenix Featured By Owner Jan 9, 2008  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
never pick on the little guy :giggle::evileyes::giggle:

adding this to my faves :+favlove:
OuroborosCobra Featured By Owner Dec 22, 2007
Excellent job
rfalk Featured By Owner Nov 7, 2007   Digital Artist
Damn, Your Goood Amigo:#1:

Faved and watching. :deviation::sherlock:
doodlebugRP Featured By Owner Sep 26, 2007  Hobbyist
I'm not sure Raider Captain Mensk even had time to wish /that/. He probably died cursing Vagyr Ward in every language he could speak.
thisaradj Featured By Owner Sep 14, 2007
Looks like a Science Fiction!
BenRG Featured By Owner Sep 14, 2007
A lovely shot of /Niobe/ in action there. I bet that raider captain was wishing that he had kept his big mouth shut when Ward was so nicely inviting him to go away. He wasn't wishing it for /long/ of course, but intensity can be more important than duration in these circumstances.

A nice bit of action art. I love your action shots and your particular vision of space technology. *Faves and Watches*
Arcthoudor Featured By Owner Sep 14, 2007

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