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BrightBulb13's avatar

no one can change this dragon's mood because Spike is the best dragon

gordonphilbin's avatar

How could anyone hate Spike?

Scyphi's avatar

A mystery for the ages, indeed!

MightyDragonEmperor's avatar

I've heard from Derpibooru - the website I don't intend to join due to extreme toxicity there - Spike stole all credit for himself despite all the hard work other characters had done. The rest of Mane Six, who kept the Crystal Ponies distracted as Twilight went to find the Crystal Heart, got no credit. Cadance, who provided a shield all over the empire the whole time and returned the Crystal Heart to its position, got no credit. Shining Armor, who saved BOTH Spike and the Crystal Heart from their fall, got no credit. Twilight, who figured out the Crystal Heart's hidden location, found the secret passage to it, made it to the top with her upside-down magic, then risked herself failing the test for the Crystal Empire's sake by forcing Spike to deliver the heart, got no credit. Spike, who ran a short distance to a ledge, fell, and almost shattered the Crystal Heart, got ALL credit for doing THAT.


During the games, some pony shot an arrow on a cloud and turned it into an iceblock, then Spike comes to the rescue, but that was more of a redeem after the Cloudsdale Anthem he failed to sing earlier. That iceblock was also small enough for the pegasi ponies to steer towards the center of the field without problems. Another thing about Equestria Games is this magic-disabling spell for the unicorn-spectators who passed security, you know, to prevent them from cheating, but did the head of security believe that the officials and the princesses would cheat in the games, as well? The Mane Six and everyone would've taken care of that situation, as well, if only the conflict weren't so arbitrarily restricted and the episode was focusing on giving Spike the spotlight.


Next up, we have the Gauntlet of Fire episode, where Spike got another chance to shine by preventing some teenage dragons from invading Equestria to steal beds because they just got tired of sleeping on rocks. Garble, however, wanted revenge on the ponies for a reason nobody explains. Neither Twilight nor Rarity couldn't fight the teenage dragons off despite the good old times when they already fought Changelings in Canterlot Wedding, for instance, and that's the crux of the problem with Spike episodes. Every single character must get dragged down for random, non-sensical reason for Spike to shine at all.


I realized that the whole Spike-fandom was all just about living something, vicariously, by imagining themselves in Spike's place, like, "Yay! That's ME saving the Crystal Empire!" But, when it comes to Spike-Abuse, they're like, "Oh, no! That's ME getting abused!" It makes sense because there's no other possible reason why they'd be so concerned about Spike getting mistreated otherwise, and it appears that this "TexasUberAlles," guy had been involved. I never saw what the whole purpose was for Spike to exist, anyway.

Scyphi's avatar

I'll give you the Crystal Heart incident, but I also think it misses both part of the intended message (that you don't need to be in the spotlight or have to have credit for it in order to save the day--you know, humility and all that) and the deliberate comedic irony that was behind it all.


The use of magic could've been used to subtly help favored teams or players to cheat without immediate notice in all sorts of ways, so to ensure complete fairness for all parties, it actually makes perfect since to block the magic of the onlooking unicorns in attendance. The princesses, no doubt wanting to set an example for everyone else, also allowed their magic to be blocked for the same reasons, and to show no one was, nor should be, exempt from it just because of rank.


Also, political corruption is still a thing even in MLP, so playing the rank card is only opening the door for a loophole for cheaters--not that I think these particular princesses would want to cheat, of course, but can't rule that out for other politicians in the audience (Blueblood, for example, was there, and I could totally see him trying to cheat). Plus it also serves to settle the minds of any suspicious ponies (or just sore-losers) that they couldn't have cheated even if they had wanted to, because they had blocked their magic just like everybody else. As for the rest, I think Spike earned that victory for himself, even if it was partly for redemption for earlier goofs that same episode, and I think was the moment when he actually earned some of the fame he had been previously getting, as already discussed.


It actually makes sense for things to go down the way they did in "Gauntlet of Fire," because Spike, as a dragon, had the ability to resolve the problem peacefully and within the laws of the Dragon Lands by participating in the same competition as all of the rest, and Spike, being Spike, wanted to do it fair. Rarity and Twilight, being ponies, couldn't have done that, because not only would the dragons object and just create a bigger international incident that probably would've only made things worse, rather than better, from the political angle. Further, they were at a disadvantage in that they needed to lie low because, again as ponies, they weren't exactly welcomed there and would've only, again, caused an incident just being there if they were found out and ultimately not helped much at all. Granted, that means there wasn't much point in them being there at all, but they went at Spike's request so to provide backup for him, and all of them went without knowing why Spike as being summoned in the first place, and thus hadn't exactly planned for the gauntlet in the first place.


I get the point you're making here, and I'm not in total disagreement here...but I do feel like there is a bit of bias of your own here in these examples that are only considering part of the story, the parts you want focused on, and thus missing the bigger picture. If Spike fans focus purely on Spike because "Spike not being appreciated because [insert other character here]," then this sort of feels the reverse, a "[insert other character here] not being appreciated because Spike."


Really, the best way to address this problem is to consider both sides of the problem, and their pluses and negatives.

MightyDragonEmperor's avatar

At first, I expected that everyone would get a fair amount of credit, not that Spike would take it all and that the Mane Six, Shining Armor, and Cadance did everything else for nothing.

This "giant" ice-cloud situation could've been taken care of without Spike's help if this magic-disabling spell hadn't applied to the officials and the princesses since the head of security didn't want to risk that they'd be profoundly stupid and start cheating in the games, themselves. I wouldn't believe that either the officials or the princesses of Equestria would become idiots and "help favored teams or players to cheat without immediate notice in all sorts of ways and have their magic disabled, too," just for Spike's sake. It's also why somebody purposely never came up with a contingency plan for such hazards, and they shouldn't have used such arrows that could turn into ice, or why they should've had used a roof.

Yes, Spike had to "resolve the problem peacefully and within the laws of the Dragon Lands by participating in the same competition as all of the rest" to stop some teenage dragons from stealing the ponies' beds and Garble getting revenge on the ponies for a reason nobody explained, as I mentioned before. Despite the times when the Mane Six had already fought other foes, like the Changelings in Canterlot Wedding, for instance, but neither Rarity nor Twilight couldn't fight off a couple of teenage dragons. Everything you've said about "Spike resolving the problem peacefully, and within the laws of the Dragon Lands by participating in the same competition as all of the rest. Rarity and Twilight, being ponies, couldn't have done that because not only would the dragons cause a bigger international incident, that probably would've only made things worse, rather than better, from the political angle. Further, they were at a disadvantage in that they needed to lie low because - again, as ponies - the ponies weren't welcomed there and would've only, again, caused an incident just being there if they were found out and ultimately not helped much at all. Granted, that means there wasn't much point in them being there at all, but they went at Spike's request so to provide backup for him, and all of them went without knowing why Spike got summoned in the first place and thus hadn't exactly planned for the gauntlet in the first place." It indicates that's supposed to be an insult towards the Mane Six and blaming them for trespassing the Dragon Lands, like, "Yeah, it's the Mane Six's fault for getting their land invaded by the teenage dragons. They're so dumb." I agree, though, about this Dragons VS Ponies thing. Dragons don't fit with ponies, and all I have to do to prove my point is to show you these pictures.

This one features a human-princess and a unicorn, surrounded by mammals, such as woodland species in this Heavenly scenery.

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This one features a dragon in this Hellish scenery, and dragons are commonly known as evil creatures, especially in children's fairy-tales, where a dragon kidnaps a princess and holds her locked up until a knight comes to the rescue, slays the dragon, and saves the day, for instance. This picture isn't related to My Little Pony, so it doesn't count for a "dragons are stronger than ponies" argument.

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I've only figured that the whole Spike-fandom was all just about living something, vicariously, by imagining themselves in Spike's place, not that I've wanted it to be like that or anything, and it's where this Anti-Spike-Abuse came from, as well.

If I got forced to pick the Mane Six or Spike, I'd go with the Mane Six. Plain and simple.

Scyphi's avatar

Well, I guess haters really are gonna hate, because you seem bent only spinning it to put Spike in a bad light. More power to you, I guess, but I stand by my earlier point: your arguments really only fly when you only consider certain points of the episodes in question. When you regard the full picture, from both sides of the matter...it's not really that watertight at all.


Again, not saying some of these criticisms of how Spike is approached as a character aren't valid, but only some, and even then I don't see them as crippling as you'd make them out to be. And it's not like Spike's the only one in MLP--all of the Mane 6 have had their own moments where the same arguments can apply to them just as often, if not more so, if only because they tended to get the more screen time and thus more opportunities for it to come to pass.


Also, I'm pretty sure that whole "living vicariously through Spike" attempt to explain Spike fans is a gross oversimplification at best, to flat out wrong at worst, at least for some of said fans. Some I think support Spike because they just like dragons, others because they see Spike just as valid a character with the same level of potential as the rest of the Mane 6 but is going overlooked and untapped more often than not.


Me, I see myself as in both camps--an enjoyer of both the Mane 6 and Spike, so I guess that leaves me in a good position to see it both ways. Hence my urging to look at it from both sides of the matter rather than just the one, but whatever.

MightyDragonEmperor's avatar

Nuh-uh, I haven't said anything about hating Spike. It's you who seemed bent on putting every other character in a bad light, like when you told me that "magic could be useful to subtly help favored teams or players to cheat without immediate notice in all sorts of ways. So, to ensure complete fairness for all parties by blocking the magic of the onlooking unicorns in attendance. The princesses, no doubt wanting to set an example for everyone else, also allowed their magic to be blocked for the same reasons and to show no one was, nor should be, exempt from it just because of rank." I don't believe in any of that. It's just a random, non-sensical attempt to bring all characters down so that Spike would be the only one who knew what to do. The officials or the princesses of Equestria wouldn't ever become idiots and "help favored teams or players to cheat without immediate notice in all sorts of ways and have their magic disabled, too," just for Spike's sake.


Another picture made by "TexasUberAlles" is this one, where he claimed, in the description, that Spike's the "bravest" character of all until someone else - on Derpibooru - showed up and said this; "Which one sounds bravest? Twilight, who risked herself failing the test she received from Celestia during the Sombra scenario? Or Spike, who just sang a song incorrectly?"

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In response, "TexasUberAlles" had this to say, which isn't even related to what the description says at all.

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Scyphi's avatar

Well, you could've fooled me then, because you've otherwise spent this whole comment chain doing nothing but find any and all faults, big or small, you can with, if not with Spike himself, then the Spike episodes. Personally, it felt very much like you have an axe to grind...and I'm still getting that impression now, so, if that's really not the intent, then the best advice I can give is perhaps phrase all of this differently next time?


Remind me to not put you in charge of anti-cheating measures for...well, really any games, but most especially not the Olympics, because you'd be terrible at it. It's not about whether or not a person in question will or will not cheat that matters, it's making sure there's no means of doing so anyway should anyone decide to, because the moment you make an exception to that is the moment you get a cheater.


For example, in grade school when taking a test--did your teacher allow some students to NOT put their textbook away for a test, because she trusted them not to cheat on the test, or did she have ALL the students put their textbooks away and out of sight for the test? Same sort of logic here.


TexasUberAlles making light of your comment by making that response in jest--I think they figured replying seriously would've gone nowhere, or at least ended in a needless debate. In retrospect, I probably should've followed their example on that, because I'm certainly starting to feel like this is a needless debate right now. :P

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