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by techgnotic
Wed Feb 01, 2011, 11:00 PM

In researching the history of pin up art I found that before there were the “centerfold girls”
there were the “pin-up calendar girls” – the semi-nude young women in lingerie whose photographs
adorned calendars sold semi-legally from under the counters of gas stations and truck stops. In
fact, the Marilyn Monroe nudes that established the “Playboy” magazine centerfold were actually
taken years before for just such a “men’s calendar.” From “French postcards” to calendars to men’s
magazines, there has always been a special relationship between photography and the male obsession
with the female form. These photos were pinned in soldiers’ lockers and even carried into combat.
The iconic pin-up images were even painted on the nosecones of many U.S. Air Force bombers.

Playboy 1938 by walker1812 Marilyn in white by salvatoredevito 20s glamour girl by mEtZGERbRauT:thumb81075621:

Why the male obsession of covering his walls, jackets, cars, advertising, gadget skins and
screensavers with photos and artworks depicting variations and arrangements of female anatomy?

At least through the “Playboy” era (1960s-70s) the depictions of the female were extremely “objectified”
– the “quality” of the female subject’s body parts taking precedence over any other information about the
subject. But something interesting happened as the generations progressed. Pin-up art has greatly evolved
not only from how idealized females are depicted, but also in that so many women themselves are now the artists
creating pin-up art.

Furthermore, the pin-up models themselves are no longer mute, anonymous “objects” for manipulation –
they have their own identities, websites and businesses based on how they choose to represent their female form.

When young men choose pin up totems of their preferred pop culture prey to adorn their man-caves these days, the
“pin-up girl” ideal is more likely to be closer to Lara Croft or Gina Carano or the Kate Beckinsale character in
“Underworld” or Milla Jovovich in “Resident Evil” than to some full bodied but otherwise expressionless model. Even
the most macho men today seem to want their “dream girl” to be smart and tough and resourceful.

The pin-up image has greatly evolved from a fluffy slice of “cheesecake” to a self-reliant, self-defined, physically
fit female whose hotness is exceeded only by her ability to kick any unworthy man’s butt. As more and more female artists
create pin-up art, and more female models for this art become self-empowered in co-creation of the “message” going out
from this art, the more the “objectification” past can be redeemed by the “empowerment” future – and the wonder and power
of the female subject – body and soul – can be free to evolve ever closer in its depiction toward ultimate revelation.


Because of the comments this article is generating, many directed at the “voice” of the article instead of its subject, this has turned into a great opportunity to talk a bit about the process of these articles and why they are presented the way they are.

The purpose of my essays and articles on HQ is to shine a spotlight on amazing artists on deviantART as well as all of the different types of art represented on our site and hopefully spark real dialogues between deviants and others.  Sometimes this works “too well” and community members take me to task for pushing some sort of private agenda that would better be suited to my personal journaling.  But I have no agenda other than to provoke the lively exchanges that, like this one on pin-up art, are giving off such great passion, heat and light.  The shared comments, especially from contributors like SparrowSong, are the other half of what the “articles” are about.

The articles are not personal “think pieces” or statements of official deviantART opinion or policy about “positive" or “negative” art.  The articles are meant to bring out your feelings and opinions.  In this pin-up piece I was worried that my own, sometimes buzz-kill, feminist sentiments (especially when it comes to objectifying women into sex toys) were going to overly darken my notes on “pin-up” - -  a major field of art on deviantART - - and make me look biased against it and its artists.  I obviously bent the rhetorical stick too far the other way.  I’m relieved that there’s still enough passion out there for female equality that I’d be called a sexist for not totally trashing “pin-up” and its fans.

What I really wasn’t trying to say in the article is that I think “pin-up” used to be sexist, but it’s all good and even empowering of females now with sexism “gone.”.  I thought I was saying that pin-up objectificaton will always exist so long as testosterone exists, but now at least there is a substantial portion of it that at least values (or intends to value) other aspects of the female subject (i.e., leadership, independence, physical and mental acuity, etc) and these were completely absent in pin-up just a few decades ago.  I always look to the rays of light emerging from the darkness, rather than the depressing persistence of the darkness.

What started out as an invitation for all of us to express, yet also question, our feelings and personal thesis about the validity, purpose, intent, and artistic merit of nudity in the arts (and subsequently our everyday lives) quickly turned into a wildfire global conversation that ran across every age, race, religion, gender, and ideology we have on the Earth Sphere. Just an incredible conversation that had a significant impact on many of us in the community who were following each and every comment.

One other angle I edited out of the article at the last minute: there is a direct thread from the Pin-up era all the way through to the insurgent Cosplay movement currently raging across the globe. The comment from $Dollwithagun presents first hand perspective regarding the pin up centric, barely there outfits, and decidedly erotic undercurrents permeating the Con circuits along with the meteoric rise and integration of the cosplay aesthetic into the mainstream of our pop-culture narrative.
To this point, Heidi and I returned from a fact finding mission at Dragon Con last year with multiple eye opening experiences illustrating this surging phenomenon.

I would like to extend this invitation to you to share responses to this article with links to artwork, sources, statistics, etc., that strengthen and support your positions and thoughts on any matters related to this now diverse conversation, and I will then update this article next week highlighting all of those well thought out and detailed responses.

Questions for the Reader


Many of you have commented about the inclusion of weapons as props in today's pin up art.  What would you say is the ultimate impact of that element on the viewers experience?


What female pin-up from movies, comics, fashion, etc, has always best represented your idea of the ideal female?  How much of your choice is based on sheer physical attractiveness and magnetism, and how much on other factors (what you know of her ideas and attitudes, her causes and concerns, etc)?


How much “political” thought ruins an artist’s muse?


Would you consider posing for a pin up if asked?  Do you think that posing for a painitng or drawing is different than posing for a photograph?


Do you feel it’s a generally positive thing that female artists create powerful independent female characters in their art that are still ultra-sexy and alluring?

Add a Comment:
hawaiianbryan Featured By Owner Aug 8, 2014  Professional Digital Artist
Interesting article. A lot of really good points, and I enjoyed the read.

I only have one point of contention. I personally don't agree that pinup models were ever "mute, anonymous 'objects' for manipulation." The models you're referring to posed for the artwork even though social convention told them not to. They may be demure, or shy, or submissive in the artwork... but her posing represents a moment in her life when she lived on her own terms. She posed because she wanted to. The independence doesn't need to be in the artwork as long as it's in the heart of the model.

1) The inclusion of weapons as props... I suppose it depends. In my artwork I try to steer clear of guns. It's a matter of style. Modern guns are ugly as hell (I feel the same way about modern cars). I'll paint old six shooters, swords, sci-fi laser guns, bows and arrows, and I've even painted a model riding the "fat man" atomic bomb. For pinup, you have to highlight the unique qualities of the model and the props... modern guns are just too common looking.

2) My ideal female pinup is Bettie Page. She had great range as a model. She could be sweet, serious, sexy, and playful, dominant, submissive... and she did it all on her own terms. You have to respect that.

3) Any message you try to convey with your artwork must be clear, simple, and immediately understood... politics are rarely that. I'm not saying it can't be done (Rosie the riveter is a very iconic piece of political propaganda), but I'm saying that that it's RARELY done well.

4) No... I'd never pose for a pinup. I'm not confident in the way I look, plus if I were to focus so much on myself as to comply to a standard of beauty worthy of being painted, then I'd certainly not be as smart or talented as I am. I respect those who choose to make their body into art... my energies are best spent focused elsewhere.

I can, however, speak to the point of others posing for photographs versus paintings/drawings. It has more gravitas to be painted or drawn. Photography certainly takes effort, time, and talent, but being painted is a far more rare experience. Especially being painted well... there are far fewer great painters than there are great photographers.

5) Power and independence is a motif. It's important if and only if that it what you're trying to convey, but it's not more important that any other motif in the grander scale.

Your Pal,
"Hawaiian" Bryan

sidetrack1 Featured By Owner Jun 7, 2014
I don't know how to feel about the shift being from supposed objectification to empowerment but this article is interesting
Oseltamivir Featured By Owner Feb 26, 2013  Hobbyist Writer
Woohooo! You mentioned Milla Jovovich and had Ada Wong's picture! Five stars!

Seriously, this was very detailed and informative :) Your presentation is great and really hooks the reader (and I'm not just talking about the pretty ladies!). I think you've given the reader an interesting perspective into the idea of pinups. Good job.
ksusha-landysh Featured By Owner Aug 4, 2012  Student General Artist
Pin-up paintings have always had glaring errors with women's anatomy. No spine. No stomach, no fat, no body hair, no nothing. Pin-up photos are not so bad, but it's hard to find a woman that doesn't fit the stereotypical form, god forbid her stomach ain't flat and her boobs aren't pointy. XD
I highly recommend to really understand how messed up some comic book pin-ups can be.
deviantART muro drawing Comment Drawing
fyrehed Featured By Owner May 20, 2012
Pin-ups make me really uncomfortable, mostly because they turn me on. They don't, however, turn me on the same way pretty women on the street will: they turn me on in a sort of violent, crazed way. I don't want to be nice to them--the fantasies the inspire in me are cruel and degrading. I want to use and brutalize them, then throw them away like the cheap dolls they're pretending to be. That feeling in turn fills me with self-loathing and spite for both women and men (as well as a desire to watch hardcore porn). All in all, they make me feel lusty and hateful: I like them, but I hate that I do. I don't have much respect for them--meaning for the people who pose for or shoot them.
Compusician Featured By Owner Mar 25, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Another great piece of work. I noticed the magnifying glass. Haven't seen that before. Good idea! :)
QueenDevious Featured By Owner Mar 23, 2012   General Artist


Hello Dear Deviant Friend!
Your talent has been recognized and put on display in
:bulletblack::bulletblue::bulletwhite:The Queen's Picks 2012:bulletwhite::bulletblue::bulletblack:
Thank you for sharing your amazing talent with
the World! :earth:
And remember, dear...

"Every successful artist has at least one person
who really believes in them." :heart:

~ Patricia Piccinini; artist, sculptor



knghnjm Featured By Owner Mar 22, 2012
ad 'df hgn hg;g hpfv
deviantART muro drawing Comment Drawing
treetrollop Featured By Owner Feb 21, 2012
how we humans - male and female - like to ramble with analysis and artistic intellectualism about how we find it often overpowering to handle our basic needs for physical contact, sexual satisfaction and the requirement to continue our species.
Sadly, we have allowed various religions to advise, threaten and, in the case of childhood, punish us to pervert us away from our reality - sexually and emotionally -toward a mythological need to be a penitent or a sinner.
In our early years we are tended by adults. Often a young adult female will be our source of life and hourly survival. Sometimes these young woman are finding it hard enough to cope with their own lives. Of course we do not make any serious attempt to guide, help and support young mothers. We would if they were learning to drive a car.
So, I've said enough surely? Continue to believe that the changing face and body of pornography is part of female empowerment if you want to keep your eyes shut. That females producing sexual imagery of female 'models' who "kick male butt" as you mention - is somehow progressive and about genuinely powerful and independent women is just another myth as toxic as religious bullying.
Sorry folks - reducing females (especially) to handy-sized fantasies we (whether we are male or female) can move around and control .... even if we ask them to kick us ....... is all based on our first few years when usually a young and inexperienced female with very little guidance was IN TOTAL CONTROL OF OUR LIFE. Whether we STAYED ALIVE EVERY DAY. Often enough this was too much for the young woman and totally terrifying for the infant. Spending the rest of our lives compensating for this is wasteful and painful. Beginning to take parenting seriously however is not yet on the agenda. Meanwhile we have our crutches - one of which is the pornography\fashion\behaviours you have been illustrating with photo-images of the latest icons. Now sometimes armed and dangerous, pseudo- powerful and fit.
.......... C'mon folks ..... they are models pretending to be Hippolyta - mythological Queen of The Amazons - to sell mags, movies and aftershave.
Time for some reality so we can get ourselves sorted. And I don't mean prohibition - I mean being honest with each other ! We are warm-blooded animals who need and crave positive contact with others even before we are born
Oseltamivir Featured By Owner Feb 26, 2013  Hobbyist Writer

skimming your comment (it's late at night and I'm tired!), I think you're a pretty smart cookie. I wish there was a like button for your comment ;)
treetrollop Featured By Owner Mar 13, 2013
good of you to tell me ~ really appreciated thanks
SHrrrrrriiipfan Featured By Owner Feb 20, 2012
Pin-ups today are the best of both worlds. You get the sexiness of the feminine form, and te empowerment of what one is capable of, but let's not forget, the object is not to compare the sexes, but to show how equal they can be. The Pin-up is now, part of that objective.
RaediantArt Featured By Owner Feb 28, 2012  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
And nothing screams 'equality' then a woman in fishnets and lingerie bending over in a seductive pose? Your mentality is strange. I find equality when women are treated/paid /viewed equally as a man. Just like a man to a woman, without having to first think of sex. If anything, revealing a woman's body to a man is just showing off how different we actually are physically. And how a woman's anatomy can control a mans mind at will. For example: Victorias Secret, they sells womens lingerie and undergarments. Why do they make 'seductive' and 'sexy' commercials for? Money. They do it because they know that men will watch it, like it, and buy it because thats what they want from their wives/gf's. It has nothing to do with equality or empowerment. Just money and sex.
SHrrrrrriiipfan Featured By Owner Feb 28, 2012

I have a strong and open-minded mentality. I think you're taking this out of context.

So, in other words, you say that you hate pin-ups, and are not very open-minded.

Read the article again, please. The point of it is to describe the fact that the female form is NO LONGER, just something to look at, but a subject of how a woman can be empowered to do anything, regardless of how they look. Yes, they look sexy, it's a pin-up. BUT, you miss the point that you see these women in a light other than mere objectification.

You are leaning way to much on side of the subject, and you took me out of context.

I know you'll probably reply, but hey, you're entitled to your (somewhat convoluted) opinion.
RaediantArt Featured By Owner Feb 28, 2012  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
There is a fine line when being, as you say "open-minded" crosses a line that enters a land where you lie and convince yourself you are seeing something, but deep down you have another reason, a darker reason.

You even admit that above "yes, they look sexy, its a pin-up". So your saying pin-ups are made to be sexy, and to attract sexual attention so people will look at their picture and hopefully understand whatever concept they are trying to say.
How is that any different then porn sites using women's bodies on Ads to attract attention to their site? Using sex, and the female body, it gets attention.

I read the article quite clearly. And find it to be a big pile of steamy BS.
It's a great example of how people are willing to change their 'views' of something without really changing. More giving it a fancy definition without bluntly saying: "I like this picture because there is a very attractive woman in it and shes semi-nude. But hey, shes not showing off her whole entire body which means its not as bad as porn, right? And they are showing some kind of meaning behind it other then sex."

Anyways, most pin-ups have no meaning. Some of the ones above are of women in skimpy clothing, and posing. It is obvious what they are getting at.

Most immature men that look at them will think of sex, and what will they do after looking at them?
Pull up a new tab and probably start searching for some porn to watch.
SHrrrrrriiipfan Featured By Owner Feb 29, 2012
Well, that's your opinion. I don't agree with you, but hey, you're entitled to feel that way if you so choose.

We'll just leave it at that.
roballen2 Featured By Owner Mar 3, 2012  Professional Artist
opinions are blind alleys of lazy stupid people...I got 'em, yea, They are flaws in personality.
We have to have one more minute to project our love and perfect our art.
SHrrrrrriiipfan Featured By Owner Mar 3, 2012
I am all for the art! If you're talking about opinions in regard to what's art and what isn't, she is a bit blind, but whatever.

At the same time, everybody has an opinion about everything, they are neither right, nor wrong. You saying "opinions are blind alleys of lazy stupid people...I got 'em, yea, They are flaws in personality", is in and of itself, an opinion.

The best part about expressing yourself freely, whether through art, music, discussion, etc., is that you have the right to agree or disagree, but at the same time, respect their opinions and provide a counter argument.

Remember, if everyone agreed about everything, life would be pretty vanilla, and boring. I do agree we should take more time to project art and love, but don't just shut your ears and not take criticism, or not listen to other suggestions.
angelinabicha Featured By Owner Feb 20, 2012  Professional General Artist
i loooove pin uppppp
cuervojose Featured By Owner Feb 20, 2012  Professional General Artist
great article!!!:)
great layout!!!:)
kaidragonslayer Featured By Owner Feb 20, 2012  Student Filmographer
Extremely interesting article that I have read a couple of times since I first read it on Valentine's Day. It explores the topic well.
o1bloody1o Featured By Owner Feb 20, 2012  Professional General Artist
wow. just wow!
marquiswyld Featured By Owner Feb 20, 2012  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
Thank you for actually acknowledging that there is a massive difference between these kinds of images and the overly clinically 'gynaecological' shots that fuel some of the Internet.
TBH - these images are usually sexier because (ironically) they have got much more covered up.
It is also good to see that there are actual characters in these pictures rather than cold studies of form and that this too has been acknowledged and is appreciated.

My partner (faerysharp) also feels that these kind of 'pin up' images are more worthy of notice than may a 'glamour nude'
BubbleCloud Featured By Owner Feb 19, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
A lovely article!
You should mention Alberto Vargas as well. :)
His pin up drawings have inspired a whole generation of Pin up artists.. and they still do.
AndrastaRei Featured By Owner Feb 18, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
According to my female point of view, I think that pin-up girls are classy not trashy, about showing her sexiness in an elegant way. Besides, a lot of models should learn that being sexy isn't about show your breast or the whole body, it's about how confidence are and proof that you're not a piece of meat
RaediantArt Featured By Owner Feb 28, 2012  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
Sorry to break it to you, most if not all pin-up models, do nude photoshoots. They are as classy as a stripper when you put it that way.
AndrastaRei Featured By Owner Mar 3, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
WOW! I didn't realize about that cause I was refer to the pin-up girls of the 30's
beleave Featured By Owner Feb 18, 2012
has anyone here even come across the painting? sculpture? poetry? pin-ups are not a recent phenomenon? nude vs naked, anyone? you don't have to read john berger to get a handle on this, or on the influences of population growth out of control, image and media everywhere, homoeroticism in the female figure and in pornography involving anal sex w/shaven tiny anorexic barely-if-18-yr old girls as mature as the average 10 year old girl of a century ago. girls, the sorrow that the rise of the feminine or female power so-called in brazil is entirely due to reverse sexual manipulation, that andrea dworkin is dead, that she was a whore before an asexual lesbian, and she was the only one to get the supreme court to stand up and pay attention. that not too long ago almost the entire internet was funded by pornography -- you feminists failed, i blame you for this constant technocracy of nihilist materialism & distraction!!! people used to so rarely see "art" or read it that they would almost always weep. when was the last time you went to a good art museum and saw people weeping? maybe if you go to that chapel in texas with the rothkos you'll get one or two. and that is not much about rothko's paintings in themselves. devart is a porn palace itself!

women with weapons, ancient people. study history. now if women start committing crimes anywhere near the rate of men . . . . . . another story, a reality, not a fetish fantasy mastubatory. how bored are you.

i'm gonna go watch maude in the big lebowski and have a caucasian y'all. then i'm gonna paint a woman crucified upside-down while pregnant (and she won't look like demi moore photographed by annie liebowitz and a crew of thirty -- how does susan sontag deal with that BS; love--go figure) so that, physically incapable of getting the infant out, s/he dies and rots within thereby killing his/her drowning ophelia figure mommy then to be preserved in the mutter museum natch -- a dead baby giving his mom sepsis, the site of which once caused a totally serious "man"(an old friend of my then lover/partner) to shake his head sadly *in judgment* and monotone, "pregnancy is simply a medically preventable disease" -- though kafka would agree and considering the rate and irresponsibility women keep popping the parasites out as if they aren't the life-long commitment of the global community starting w/her and the donor if available, i am inclined to agree -- the expectant whore-mother in an expanse of arid desert of same, not quite cheery enough to summon monty python. and damn jesus was rude to his mom.

then i'll go stare at pics of dead anorexic/bulemic french model (it's a form of munchausen's syndrome, you do realize this, yes?) model Isabelle Caro [link] , on purpose, rather than the hundreds of millions people who are not making a choice to starve. or not only "pose" with a weapon for a camera in the right lighting, but have to use them to stay alive along with, hopefully, their children; of course they end up getting raped all the time anyway. if they had husbands to "protect" them they are overpowered and killed or made to watch, or out at war already, or running for the hills.

so if Isabelle had an ak-47, was strapping a suicide bomb around her skeleton, would it be more empowering for her than taking a bite out of an apple?

watch some atrocity footage to remind yourselves we are all objects who will do anything in the end to empower our solipsistic lives to exist a millisecond longer, some the more dehumanizing the quicker to do it. how many holocausts, mass murders, wars, cruelties, neglects, rapes, pillages, bombings, terrors, genocides, tortures, losses etc do there have to be to get through to you? sure, the world on the whole is far less murderous and brutal and cruel than it was a hundred years ago, unless you're one of the fellow animals we casually butcher in filth so we can have heart attacks after living way past any possible use, an insane *process* (has anyone read upton sinclair's seminal work? let alone been on even a nice local charlotte's web farm to witness, cuz no one yet no one gets access to the industrial killing sites w/o risking serious prison time: well except the depressed, underpaid, overworked, and as likely to get serious disease (after)effects from their jobs as someone exposed to a nuclear meltdown; well them and ms grandin) now barely efficient enough to not go bankrupt -- though still inanely & w/little profit -- thanks to temple grandin's help, talk about good intentions gone bad, and jane goodall and the other nitwits like tom regan and peter singer thinking writing some books is gonna do any good.

this is your objectified woman photographed. this is your objectified dumbass ignorant western woman with an impotent unfulfilled weapon she will not use. like this is your mind, this is your mind on drugs posters. yeah. they were so effective.

this is little piggy being hung on a chain for hours then gutted and throat slit. this is the same little piggy in orwell's animal farm.

philip larkin:

"What’s wrong! Moustached in flowered frocks they shake:
By now, all’s wrong. In everyone there sleeps
A sense of life lived according to love.
To some it means the difference they could make
By loving others, but across most it sweeps
As all they might have done had they been loved.
That nothing cures. An immense slackening ache,
As when, thawing, the rigid landscape weeps,
Spreads slowly through them—that, and the voice above
Saying Dear child, and all time has disproved."

at least make some money quick being empowered and get out before you start buying into twattle like this journal. oldest trick in the book. give the oppressed the illusion they can fight the power. //// observe the financial crisis. not that it matters since you have a computer toy and other instant numbing distractions and work work work to do at your fingertips. but as it gets worse, who suffers, whose rights constrict, who becomes objectified, how far social eugenics away -- heard of a conservative republican who believes in evolution -- heck, do you even believe in evolution, only half do, and along with physics, evolution is the most poorly taught subject at any, any school -- well except for how we wiped out native americans beats anything any other nation has done to ethnically cleanse a population since by far? who, i repeat, suffers, who takes one for the gipper(s)? the furthest, the least like the strong, the disposable, the irrelevant, the weakest. first: environment. next: animals. next: children. next: the poor, the uneducated, the disenfranchised, then minorities, then women.

as long as men can keep imagining pin-ups as they fuck your smooth pink puckered newborn-fresh vulva -- yeah vulva, they can't see far into the vagina. women w/weapons means violence and power. is making love about that, even random sex? nope. rape is about violence and power and control-- try using that "weapon" and you'll be unprepared, unwilling, slow, stunned, etc. read dave grossman's "on killing" and "on combat." common sense.

and damn, a friend of mine was on that no-pay dating site, okstupid. forced me to check it out. since when are half of women bisexual? not before porn determined fashion trends and body modification, i know that. o my god she got hair down there! yo my man, she got shit in that ass you're shoving your junk into. and her mouth is damn filthy too. congratulations for all of you.

i will go david bowie leper messiah but w/o getting it on with mick jagger, thanks. call me repressed. i sure feel like i'm a scared little kid, which is odd cuz i wasn't ever scared when i was a kid.

sarah palin on "reality tv." near-libertarians encroaching upon the oligarchy leadership. am i ranting and babbling. i've insomnia, what's your excuse for reading my rant, or worse reading the idiocy above?

what happened to communes, man? < sniffs > no wonder i am certifiable. fuck off, fish! (quoth the butcher boy; i take it as a statement concerning atwood's ineffable epigram "you fit me"; whatever, marge piercy is easily a much better writer)

pinning you, me, and us like insect specimens to a board is all. wake up. disgustipating.

what sucks about feeling, compassion, sympathy, caring, altruism, even sacrifice and empathy? my inability -- perhaps refusal -- to detach leads to retreating into a hyper-sensitive useless depressive narcissism. waking up is an exercise in extreme masochism. thus the insomnia. the last form of control. try to force me to conform to a meaningless existence. funny. all these zombie and vampire and monster shows: if they were -- even had you prep time -- swarming after you and your loves, swift pure dead accurate intent & efficiency, your temporary suspension of disbelief, w/o even reading anymore into it than that, would ensure your deaths. you ever try to fight off a large trained attack dog?

you like feeling empowered. or being viewed that way? know this: it is near-impossible to be empowered and not objectify others. it's called the human condition. you have to train hard and for years to let go of that, except for some in very fleeting moments. if you have them, don't let anyone take them away from you, or let any psychology, philosophy, or experience take those limited instants sensate to the limitless from you.

if i spend all weekend walking from trash dumpster to trash dumpster, i'll prolly w/o even diving in find a dying near-dead or dead kitten or cat. i won't, no one's got any room for a single one more if i can heal the sweet beastie. snuggle with your cold weapons ladies. gk chesterton wrote a lot of crap, but we all hit the nail on the head sometimes: what's the great lesson of the beauty and the beast story? -- you have to be loved first to become lovable.

strike a pose, you're sublime. welcome to the terrordome.

mea culpa. i'm old.

give sisyphus a hand, & everyone else in tartarus. peace. --w
babylon6 Featured By Owner Feb 18, 2012  Hobbyist Photographer
beleave Featured By Owner Feb 23, 2012
explain how that was being a troll. rant? fine? disagree? fine? troll?

everything i wrote was on-topic.

snake back to your one-dimensional world, thanks.
xiodinex Featured By Owner Feb 18, 2012  Student Writer
wow. that was a rant and a half, but quite an intelligent one, even if i can't quite understand your sentences sometimes. it certainly seems like you know what you're on about, and i appreciate the Larkin xD anyway, i'mma watch you. you seem interesting.
beleave Featured By Owner Feb 23, 2012
thanks, i guess. shrugs. it's so old. as if porn movies with women with guns haven't been made since at least the 70s. that's just my lifetime. we can go back wayyyyyyyy BC with this. or whatever calender you wanna use. as for now, which is preferable to stick to, the images and flicks talked about are fodder for pre-adolescent masturbation, among other things far more disturbing. cuz i don't think hair does grow on your palms from that, which would suck.

o yeah awesome Larkin poem. he's much misunderstood. he was deeply troubled about religion and himself, not pious &devout. it seems that particular poem, especially that last stanza, has become an a nachronism in many ways. i'm incredibly depressed these days, though. so, hey. ask about the Larkin anytime; i can go on about that one like a rat running a maze.

it passed the time, plus as i wrote i couldn't sleep. plus devart doesn't follow its own rules. realistically, it can't keep up. just another porn mill. whatever; better than your average by far. that's why i keep the boob pics up and not delete my site. far more than 90% of people only look at that. it's both hilarious and maddening.

again, shrugs. trix are for kids; whatever, just don't BS about it, call it what it is. sex-related eye candy is sex-related eye candy. as far as what people like, the very fact that has the stuff it does on it, made up or not, is while sick, at least honest about it. think of it: someone out there is into it, a lot of them.

if i genuinely cared about this site & its impact or wanted to have some fun, i'd make a counter-thing photographing male pin-ups holding non-aggro "feminine" objects like teddybears or weeping or posing for a waterhouse painting. more fun in my imagination than in reality. most things are.

RaediantArt Featured By Owner Feb 28, 2012  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
Agree with everything you said. I say, you are the most intelligent/interesting man I have ever seen post on DevArt. Most men on here (That are not artists) are only here for the pin-ups and amateur photography that girls post of themselves for attention. I personally, think that a male-counter pin-ups would be a great slap in the face of reality to all the men and women that ignorantly think that these pictures (posted above) show female empowerment. Or any pictures/pornography/ect. like it. I would bet my life that if men pinups were posted, they would be judged sexually. Not like how the men that how posted on here have put it saying that the men are: "empowered, confident, sexy, beautiful, strong, equal, etc" Chances are they will call it disgusting, gay, or ignore it completely.

Unfortunately, no one has male pin-ups depicting them almost naked, posing in seductive ways because the male body has never been sexual objectified. It has been showed, but not nearly as much as the female anatomy has been used to make money, promote sales, get attention, or sway the minds of people.

Thank you for posting, it's nice to know that there are some men out there that choose to use the head on their shoulders and not in their pants when they see pictures of women. You think with intelligence, not perversion. Thank you again, and I hope you have an amazing day.
beleave Featured By Owner Mar 3, 2012
thanks so very much.

many guys are poseurs a lot w/the porn thing. they follow along though discomfited. though less and less the younger guys are, natch (naturally). "studies show" that most men who avidly frequent (are they still around, i mean why w/the ease of porn access now), um, "gentlemen's clubs" are highly conservative hard-working married faithful men. wait! that means they are mostly conservative republicans. that demographic, for instance, contains only 10% who "believe" in evolution. which is a commentary on hundreds of other topics as well. dude, fine, some god's hand directed the evolution. but the fact of evolution is undeniable, unless one takes the stance some "higher" being(s) set the whole earth and universe up to fool us into thinking evolution is fact. plausible enough, most gods i've read about seem the type to pull pranks like killing 200 million in mud from a single monsoon while we only worry about a tiny fraction of americans slain in war these days, and also cover baby tortoise shells with several coats of paint so they get crushed to death as they grow. if there was a Socrates, i completely understand why he did not write down a single word.

sorry, off-topic.

the larger porn problem is dehumanization. the act of physical love is becoming obsolete. damn i can not summon the energy to have fun with the male pin-up thang. Huxley's incredibly distressing utopia/dystopia encroaches. J.M. Coetzee's creation David Lurie, a man proud of his degrading defeats, a man of seemingly vestigal desire with no passion to back it up, in the terrifying novel Disgrace seems a model for the modern Man. gah.

the number of seemingly progressive-minded male friends i've had who visibly cringe every time i say "making love" rather than "sex" or "fuck" is near 100%.

when i first discovered DA, i was optimistic (read: so in love i started to morph from goofy wit -- sarcasm is the lowest form of wit [link] what is the highest? -- to plain boonies duh stupid) about meeting other "artists" & "artistic people," mainly from the UK (before the internet evolved into facef*ck and scared me away from internet interaction i found UK persons much more amenable to my nearly always playful yet still acerbic fun -- americans seem to be plain scared of that or offended, generally typing).

hold on, i have to throw a shoe at the tv: on low volume some show (why did i even have the tube on?) is playing about the 7th cover of Tears for Fears "Mad World" since Donnie Darko caught on years ago. this one was very folk acoustic falsetto ludicrous, Belushi would have grabbed the guitar from the guy and smashed it to pieces as his Animal House's Bluto did in a fugue compulsion.

i posted a lot of art, discovered that at the time women covered in blood were very popular (a couple people did it well, a billion others terrible), and became disenchanted cuz no one wanted or gave constructive criticism and all that mattered were the DDs and meme-ish flocking, and anything quality i posted was ignored, etc. i'm a morbid dude, one time i did a search for "innocence fetish" fearing exactly what i saw after pressing 'enter.' at the time it was impossible to take down one's page, so whatever.

i agree w/all you point out. i have one image of me mostly naked here, part of a series i did, i left one up, and nada on it (almost). several people i've known who spent a lot of money going to art school have seen the series and been wowed, a couple even make money as traditional medium artists (not graphic designers) and have encouraged me to do more with it etc. makes me really wonder about DA.

it's a sordid commentary. hell, apparently a lot of people wanna elect Santorum as Pope (President would be a stepping-stone to US Papacy Rule). i am waiting for Him to claim he's a virgin and his children are immaculately conceived. sideshow is al he is, but still that is what disturbs, cuz meaningful things are totally ignored due to that, and we all get more dumb.

goodness gracious, i'm not up to a worthy response. a deflating day. a deflating response. limp! (laughs)

you too are a breath of unpolluted air with emotive & thoughtful insight. free thinker! stone the maiden! (smiles) really enjoy your watercolors, by the way. vibrant yet still in a disciplined line. difficult, nice.

again, thanks, i'll return when i'm feeling better. your reply deserves better attention, fellow aquarius. (shrug-smile) best on etsy!

i'll prolly note you. dew drops glinting sunshine for you -- w.
RaediantArt Featured By Owner Mar 5, 2012  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
So true, I gave up thinking on gods a long time ago.
I remember fighting over what I should believe in, and what I don't, but in the end it seems that it doesn't matter who or how you believe. Rather, life goes on with and without you. And if there is some god/gods out there I highly doubt that they would focus on how many 6.8 billion people believe in them, or sin.
If anything, like you said. Most gods would rather mess with us, or use us in their own means.

Yes, dehumanization at it's finest. It's such a grim topic.
Today I was woken up by my alarm radio and they were discussing a poll taken in america.
Majority of the females voted that if they had the choice in having: 1.) large breasts or 2.) higher intelligence, they would rather have large breasts.

....Really. I laid there thinking: "...I don't want to be on this planet anymore."
I have no idea what those that took that poll were thinking at the time, but if it was that they felt they were already intelligent, they are the ones that need the intelligence the most because one cannot reach a point where you can't get any smarter or wiser.

UGH...woari aewoifaf ajsdlkfa j. Thats how I feel about them.

When I first joined DA, I was excited. I was thinking " Awesome! I'll get to meet amazing artists from around the world, and it will be a place to get away from all those dumb morons that inhabit the internet." I was so wrong. There are just as much idiots here as there are on 4chan, FB, youtube, etc. the list goes on.

Thats why it is so amazing to actually run into someone that has some actual intelligence! you don't run into many people that can actually hold a intelligent conversation with, without them getting offended or having them turn tail and run and never respond again.

Thank you too for the conversation and all the comments and critiques on my art! They are most appreciated! :D

I hope you feel better too, talking about things like this can be very tiring and grim.
Maybe something interesting will find its way to you today, or something inspiring! I look forward to more of your photography, I really love it! I love your nursing the butterfly series, it has such as deep meaning of love and caring to them that seems to fly over the heads of most the people that seem to comment on them.

Ah a male Aquarius! I tend to believe in astrology signs. The true meanings, none of the "pay 9.99$ a month and get a reading everyday!" crap. Thats all gimic.

Your a great person, with a unique and creative mind.
I look forward to future conversations! :D

Talk to you later, best to everything!
~ Tanya
Barroness13 Featured By Owner Feb 18, 2012
from the Questions to the readers I would like to submit my answers to 2 & 4

in regards to question 2 - Betty Paige is my all time favorite Pin-Up. she isn't a size 0 in fact she is about the size mst women at her height should be. She is curvacious and alluring while staying true to herself. She is 50% and 50% personality, that's my favorite thing about her. I am truely intrigued an inspired by her courage and strength.

in regards to question 4 - Would I consider posing for a pin up if asked? In a minute ! I would be honored to pose as a pin-up, Im by no means a size 5 and I have curves and hips !! I think ALL people are beautiful inside and out, we are simply "trained" to see outter beauty certain ways, once we dismiss that we can see beauty in everyone. As a woman, I believe all women should be made to feel sexy ad proud of who they are, no matter how small or big their body is.

Do I think that posing for a painitng or drawing is different than posing for a photograph? Most definitely, a photograph is an instant image as seen by a lens and film, a drawing or painting is a rendition of the subject as seen by the artist. Therefore the painting or drawing will have a uniqueness that no photograph can capture.

maeryk Featured By Owner Feb 17, 2012
find Oleg Volk to see the ultimate in weapons and women. There's a reason Betty Page was on the nosecone of bombers capable of delivering nuclear payloads.. because that's exactly what men are fighting to protect.

And I wouldn't call Rosie the Riveter a pinup.
MyLadyKN Featured By Owner Feb 17, 2012  Professional Artisan Crafter
Over the years it has not been that difficult to find the "perfect" human specimen, male or female. A curve here, a show of muscle there, it works both ways. Females may objectify a male that they see as perfect, the same goes for males. The question is more about we as a culture accept as the perfect human form. Is it Adonis, Conan, Wonder Woman, Princess Leia? Perfection is and has always been an illusion...
maggotsplayground Featured By Owner Feb 17, 2012
beastvamp Featured By Owner Feb 17, 2012  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
These women are beautiful and powerful. If I could do pinup I would be a happy girl.
Gunflyer Featured By Owner Feb 17, 2012
I know this might be my meager male mind talking... but sometimes objectification and empowerment can be the same thing. For example, I absolutely go weak in the knees any time I see a real woman showing off her legs in stockings and garters or what have you. Indeed, I may be objectifying her, but at the same time she is empowered because in a way that lady has control over me, she's pretty much reduced my free will to nothingness, and I love it.

Ladies, if you want to dress in a way that makes you feel strong and confident, you should. If you think you're being objectified, then dress in a way that makes YOU happy. But you should always feel free to look and dress feminine.
RSF24 Featured By Owner Feb 17, 2012  Professional Traditional Artist
Humans create and we named it art. From rocks to the sky - as long as we can see it, touch it, understand it's existence, the human race and our ability to reason and be self aware, we will appreciate it, long to understand it, marvel in it's complexity and beauty and desire to create it. I feel humans alone are capable of this. I would say that creating art is a defining act that differentiates us from animals. Now combine our named "animal" instinct to procreate (have babies) with this desire to create art and you have two of the most apparent human desires joining to create something so powerful that it is as old as man itself. Pin-up art for me is a wonderful balance of the human desire to create and procreate. Pin-up art shows the human ability to restrain the animal instinct of total physical sex with our desire to create art. The ability to purposefully craft tension and desire, to know that the human form, the female form is beautiful and purposeful with an understanding of human imposed limits that are constantly tested. This is why I love pin-up art and why it flourished in a time when man respected the limits and purpose of sex the most. We need more pin-up art and less porn. It is just enough classy and sassy for the human race! It shows intelligence and the most balanced respect for the most beautiful creation.
Randy-Ambrosen1 Featured By Owner Feb 18, 2012  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
"Fierce when roused"
Those could be my last words when I see a pinup. Sparrowsong (see the reference above) also had a very balanced viewpoint on the subject. For me though one look and the endorphin's rush to my brain, immediate joy, my body is racked with involuntary romance. Biological imperative in full swing. Most guys probably don't experience such extremes but I REALLY LOVE to see the female form, it's artistic, sensual and drives me to no end of distraction. I hope most guys can stop at artistic and sensual.
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