really tired of deviantART's wikipedia entry

Journal Entry: Wed Feb 28, 2007, 3:10 AM

Ugh.

I'm really getting tired of wikipedia's deviantART entry. I add historically factual information specifically defending myself and it's consistently overturned by user accounts I don't even recognize as having any real historical knowledge.

There's a lot of stuff in there that I disagree with and don't concern myself with, but there are a few facts that I'm tired of needing to contest. So I've added the following to the comment area up at the top (not for public view), and I want it to stay there.

"There is no question that Scott Jarkoff, Angelo Sotira and Matt Stephens are the co-founders of deviantART. That's not to say the subject isn't questioned. Due to the fact that Matt Stephens and Scott Jarkoff are no longer with the company, it has become a speculation that Angelo Sotira is only the CEO, and not a co-founder. But the well documented fact of the matter is that Scott Jarkoff, Angelo Sotira and Matt Stephens co-founded deviantART. Without each of their contributions, deviantART would not have existed. Please stop editing this article as it pertains to that particular story line. - Thank you."

I've changed two or three references in the body to be consistent with this. And I also appropriately credited Matt Stephens with this change:

"All three co-founders shared backgrounds in the application skinning community, but it was Matt Stephens (artist) whose most major contribution to deviantART was the suggestion to take the concept further than skinning and towards an art community."

It's really hard to look at that wikipedia page every once in a while and see the entire purpose of 27% of my life questioned. That's just horrible.

I co-founded deviantART. It's a fact. From the philosophical influence of DMusic on deviantART through to the financial capacity for launch and the combined intellectual contribution of a good portion of the DMusic team at that time (MikeyLove, Chris Bolt and Simon Foust included). I'm not more of a co-founder, I'm not less of a co-founder. I value tremendously the many contributions of Scott and Matt. I get that they don't like me. I don't dislike them, although some things have been pretty hard to swallow, but I pretty much understand the sour grapes. Ultimately I sense clearly that at this point either of them are glad to say anything so long as it hurts me.

That's fine. But it's biased in my view.

That's all. Stop messing with the entry, I don't think it's Scott or Matt, whoever is doing it. It's ridiculous.

I have no idea how to contest it with wikipedia, I totally don't want to put the effort in to it, I just don't have the time. I ran in to it again tonight and felt like talking about it.

So here's this journal entry, I've said my peace and I feel better.

-- A

229 Comments

Listening to: 1.618 - BT, This Binary Universe

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really tired of deviantART's wikipedia entry by spyed

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junoknight Featured By Owner Apr 19, 2007 Hobbyist Digital Artist

honestly people as a whole are so immature and childish. i've not been around long enough nor do i know the story well enough to take a side but the whole drama that jark and matt seem to enjoy setting off (namely jark and his infamous yellow journals) has such an awful effect on the community!
For whatever reasons it happened, it did. it's the past now... and look at the damn website! it's amazing! We've occasioanlly hit the top 100 hit sites in the world!

We beat out ASK JEEVES
i don't know why someone who would pour blood sweat and tears into creating a website (aka yellow alien boy) would tear it down the way he does. it's like building a skyscraper, being kicked out the front door, so you take a sledgehammer to it?

logicplz.
end of my rant.

courglas Featured By Owner Sep 27, 2013

It's easy to make a statement like this if you don't know what actually happened. It's like America accusing the Nazi's of horrible concentration camps, and America not pointing the finger at itself for encamping anyone that looked Asian after Pearl Harbor. For all you know, as blatantly stated, they could have been over thrown for their ideals and belief in the common user, and didn't care as much about the pocket book. One thing politics (like this journal above) has always taught me was, follow the money, and you'll always find your answer as to why things happen/happened the way they do/did.

junoknight Featured By Owner Nov 5, 2013 Hobbyist Digital Artist

What are you doing reading such old journals, anyway?

courglas Featured By Owner Nov 5, 2013

I found Spyed's article after happening upon the a wikipedia page for DA, which led to the page that spyed mentioned in his journal, to finding his journal from that other page. This happens pretty often on the internet, but I'm sure at this point you already know exactly what I'm talking about. Anyway, I just so happen to know quite a bit more about what happened than most people, but I really don't like to talk about specifics because it just riles people up. All I'm saying is, don't take an apathetic approach to politics. Why even bother making a statement about something you know nothing about? To me, that makes no sense, and truth be told, doing nothing is equally as bad as doing something that is counterproductive. But seriously, try it sometime, take any subject with an issue, follow the money, and find out for yourself how much truth it leads to. Laters man. B-) (Cool)

moeffju Featured By Owner Mar 19, 2007 Hobbyist Photographer

Wikipedia is what happens when too many monkeys get to collaboratively write Shakespeare, and no one's around to filter the trash.

Or, in short, the internet makes you stupid.

q365 Featured By Owner Mar 17, 2007

Seriously, why does it matter at this point?

If you're the one that's right, history will eventually see you that way. If Jark really was unfairly terminated, it'll be proven some way or another.

On the other hand, it's nifty that you're actually responding to people on this journal entry. Usually it seems like you're up somewhere in the sky. Or you're using StumbleUpon like an addict. One or the other. :-P

spyed Featured By Owner Mar 19, 2007 Hobbyist General Artist

... I do like stumbleupon...

-- A

q365 Featured By Owner Mar 20, 2007

Everybody likes StumbleUpon. My work would be about three years advanced at this point if I hadn't been spending all my time looking at random ebooks and flash videos.

dA should make a stumble feature for its art, for finding art fast. Or is that just a sci-fi possibility?

spyed Featured By Owner Mar 20, 2007 Hobbyist General Artist

that's a possibility

q365 Featured By Owner Mar 21, 2007

Sweet. Freaking sweet.

FoxNede Featured By Owner Mar 17, 2007

People should know better than to trust everything that Wiki has to say. It and ecyclopedia that can be edited by ANYONE. It'd bound to have it's bias. The articles do have some legitmacy, they'll get you the tip of the iceberg but not the whole thing. You could suggest to the head honchos over at wiki that another section of the article to cover you side of that issue and let the user decide for themselves on what they want to believe.

I myself don't really care about the issue anymore other than the rift it caused within the community. Between the members and the staff and between the Jark supporter and your supporters..

noseeme Featured By Owner Mar 11, 2007

How about you don't worry about it?

beckycloonan Featured By Owner Mar 9, 2007 Professional

Rest easy that you've helped create an online art community that has touched countless numbers of people, from kids with digital cameras and a scrap of paper to working professionals, creating an international network of communication and coworking.

Deviant art is a great resource, never let some wiki-drama get in the way of that fact!!

teknokracy Featured By Owner Mar 6, 2007

It's just a stupid encyclopedia edited by 12 year olds. What are you worried about? Save face and continue running deviantART with the passion and diligence that you do now, and all questions as to your initial involvement will fade in the shadow of your accomplishments.

spyed Featured By Owner Mar 7, 2007 Hobbyist General Artist

nice. nice.

thank you

-- A

freestmind Featured By Owner Mar 5, 2007

wah. wah. wah.
you're the ceo, you have what you want. expect a bit of flak, since no one can or will tell us what's up...

spyed Featured By Owner Mar 5, 2007 Hobbyist General Artist

with what?

freestmind Featured By Owner Mar 5, 2007

More specifically to your post - wp can be a real bitch. It was fun to watch it molested during the academy awards tho ^^

freestmind Featured By Owner Mar 5, 2007

I admit, that was incredibly vague ^^ and vitriolic so - my apologies. All I'm really referring to is the perpetual shroud of mystery that seems to have haunted the administration of deviantART since its inception. Though I would never claim to be an expert regarding the subject as a relatively new, removed member of this community, I believe many issues surrounding the control and ownership have been obscured by both members of the administration and by the more .. 'creative' members of the community. From my limited observation, this seems to have caused a high degree of sectarianism amongst what we all hope would be a somewhat more united group. Placing blame in a situation like this after so much time and so much speculative discussion is nearly impossible and entirely pointless. This place is still healing from the fracture it received during °jark's departure,but this will pass. deviantART itself is not even seven years old! Yet the site and its people continue to grow in strength because just as any living organism, we all can adapt. However, many are still looking for a closure that will evade them ad infinitem as it is protected by an NDA. My assumption is simply creative differences, as is often the case when online companies unite buisness science with artistic ideals, e.g. Megatokyo [link] . It happens.

The point is, an acceptable resolution must be achieved. I, a member of the community, am not entitled to know about what goes on behind closed doors. I have no right to threaten or intimidate, in any form, those who make or carry out desicions made by the leaders of this place. I have every right to be curious, and in fact I should want to know and be involved with the direction of the community as an active member. Conversely the staff should in the interest of maintaining a healthy relationship with the members of the body it oversees should be as forthcoming as is appropriate for deviantART as a whole. And then, we move on together.

spyed Featured By Owner Mar 7, 2007 Hobbyist General Artist

Fair, but what of that are we now not doing?

I feel we're in sync on these issues, and I feel that we're making a bigger effort than we ever have in the history of deviantART to proactively reach out to the community. Please understand that prior to 2005, the criticisms and the concerns by the community were *very much the same* as they are now.

"The administration needs to listen."

Is a theme and a montra that if you do a little homework, has been the governing topic by the community since inception.

And to that end, we have a Community Development department with various employees dedicated to exactly this purpose. Other communities simply do not have this.

I (at this moment) am literally supposed to be in last stage negotiation on our new colo facility, revamping our advertising network, helping with the relaunch of deviantWEAR and supporting the wiki/rooms and collections project. That's on my plate, in addition to general business administration.

Instead, when asked in a considerate and well reasoned way (much like you have above), I respond with specifics.

I've done this for Ryan Ford recently when he raised some great points (search news). Lolly and the community development department release a weekly report of exactly what is going on. Do people read it? Not enough... and regular journal entries and news items are posted keeping the community squarely in the loop with the realities we face.

Bottom line is, we're fighting off a lot of sour grapes and mud that's been flung at us, in 2005 specifically we were and I was buried in it. Many claims were made, many assertions made, money was even collected to sue us. Yet there's never been a law suit against deviantART or myself, and no one seems to consider why?

I was silent years ago and remain silent because I was in complete shock. I've been blamed for handling that situation incorrectly, but lets say for a moment that I'm not some evil monster. And I didn't "misappropriate funds" or take actions which are characterized as consistent with the image of an "evil ninja" then perhaps the lack of grace was not mine.

If you really wonder, if you really want to free this community of doubt. Create a nice long check list of the things I've been accused of, and then put a check mark next to the ones that have been definitively proven or even have a truly high probability of sincere doubt backed by *contested* documentation.

You'll come up empty handed.

I've dedicated my life to this community from inception. I tried to leave at some point, to go to college, like a 20 year old probably should. Had I done so, deviantART would have faced yet another crisis and wouldn't be here.

I won't apologize to anyone who can't digest that. It would go against my integrity and I have no problems looking in the mirror.

My best, sir.

-- A

liquid-snake Featured By Owner Mar 3, 2007 Hobbyist Digital Artist

Gosh Darn it Boy!

I did saw those entries the first time (the first site i looked up there was this one), then when all this started i did saw the changes you made to it, again and again...

Though you are entitled to an opinion (and this being the best place to share it with us), please be so kind to take some time to think about this whole deal... Instead of this, i think IMHO, the community would like to heal.

So why not writing about this whole deal. But this time disclose the truth. As harsh as it might be we would like to hear one thing, the truth.

Disclose the truth, so we can all know what we are talking about.

I was not a suscriber but an avid user of this site since it was only about skins... your name was not here (but hey, prove me wrong, though i know you do not need to).

spyed Featured By Owner Mar 5, 2007 Hobbyist General Artist

There isn't anything I'm hiding. I don't understand why people keep asking me like as if I were Jack Nicholson about the truth.

What would you like to know?

-- A

liquid-snake Featured By Owner Mar 7, 2007 Hobbyist Digital Artist

What was the real reason behind Jark's termination (thanks for not using PResque to tell us). It would be greatly deeply appreciated if you could devote a journal entry entirely to it.

This is from a fellow deviant... No puns, no jokes, no insults.

Thanks!

spyed Featured By Owner Mar 8, 2007 Hobbyist General Artist

While there is nothing that I am hiding about why or what. Under any circumstance, anywhere in the world, an employer cannot publicly broadcast to millions of people the reasons for the termination of an employee.

It would be slanderous for me to do so.

I'm not hiding anything, I just don't want to break the law.

-- A

liquid-snake Featured By Owner Mar 9, 2007 Hobbyist Digital Artist

Sadly this is the kind of stuff that adds to the confusion on such matter. While i know you cannot do so, I also feel deeply sorry about it because it's kinda something owed to your community... Look, for example, at the situation at Wikipedia recently. Wikipedia users would have demanded to know why did an "expert" was laid off if there was no explanation about it.

In any case, i thank you for your time.

eduardofrench Featured By Owner Mar 3, 2007 Photographer

You can't expect that entry to not be changed, please everything has been shady since the termination of Jark and Matteo, and people obviously won't be able to "dig" truths so easily, and actual cached pages in the way back machine don't show you as a "father or co-founder" of this site. So it will get changed over and over again, my advice get used to it.

spyed Featured By Owner Mar 5, 2007 Hobbyist General Artist

The fact that I chose not to be on a "contact us" page, probably so that I wouldn't be bombarded with requests and spam, doesn't exactly tell anyone anything.

-- A

eduardofrench Featured By Owner Mar 5, 2007 Photographer

nop it doesn't as the matter hasn't been handled with full disclosure.

Who-Is-Chill Featured By Owner Mar 3, 2007 Professional Photographer

Damn, I'll feel like you in this case.
"deviantART's History" should be fixed.

There is too much "freedom of edit" articles on Wiki, anyone can pretend to Know.

Such as several deviants suggested it, it should exist a way to "seal" any important information like this.

I just hope that a lot of Deviants don't "make their knowledge" with Wikipedia... *sigh*

BrokenVolt Featured By Owner Mar 3, 2007

What you did was terrible, its never going to be forgotten, deal with it to be honest.

CutePastelStars Featured By Owner Edited Feb 13, 2017 Student Digital Artist

This is what should be on that Wikipedia page.
==

eviantART Reputation As of Today===
Sadly, DeviantART is a failing business. They fired many of their staff the previous year, since the management they are now under DeviantART user Spyed, whose account can be found here: spyed.deviantart.com/ , no longer care about their userbase, but instead have focused their efforts on milking it for all of the money they can make from the website. An example of this is the new CORE membership, as they have raised a year worth of core to twice the price it used to be, without adding any new features to make it more interesting for premium users. Users on the site have posted how upset they are with how bad the management has gone, but nothing has been done.
Some Testaments and Frusrations of dA Users:
princessskyler.deviantart.com/…
toodamnfilthy.deviantart.com/j…
marinacoric.deviantart.com/jou…
persephone-almana.deviantart.c…
Between allowing pedophiles to join the site, never banning anyone for drama or pain they cause to the community, and neglecting tickets sent in through the help desk for weeks and even months, dA has gained a bad reputation over the years, and the site owner(s) seem to have no interest in turning this around.
Usually if a user reports something involving issues with another user, they get a copy and paste reply, saying "Thank you for contacting us. Social conflicts are always difficult issues to resolve. We are sorry that this incident has moved to level where you felt the need to file a ticket.
We recommend that you and your boyfriend use the "Blocked Users" tool found in your account settings, www.deviantart.com/settings/ge… . Using this tool will prevent any further communication between you and any user profile that you place on the list in the tool. Our FAQ contains more detailed instructions on this tool here help.deviantart.com/96/
Please contact us again if, after using the Blocked Users tool, the user in question continues to attempt to contact you in a way that you consider to be harassing. We would then step in and take administrative action as necessary and appropriate.
Again, thank you for contacting us in what must be unpleasant circumstances for you. Please know that we value your membership and participation in DeviantArt.". dA does not care if you are being cyberbullied and spoken about in a harmful fashion, and do not care if they send others to attack you. If you reported each user who harassed you or spammed your page, they would give you this exact same response for each report you sent in.

spyed Featured By Owner Mar 3, 2007 Hobbyist General Artist

I didn't do anything terrible.

We handled it terribly perhaps. But that's about it.

BrokenVolt Featured By Owner Mar 4, 2007

Right, so you're saying Scott had his job/power/position in the company taken away because he wanted it all to be taken away? He agreed to it?

Out of curiosity, why not ask Scott to come back as an admin since he was a co-founder?

spyed Featured By Owner Mar 5, 2007 Hobbyist General Artist

Just because someone does or doesn't want something to happen, doesn't mean I did anything terrible.

-- A

b0x0rz Featured By Owner Mar 3, 2007

as long as you know the truth (whatever it may be) and people that really need to know it, do in fact know it - then why bother with a tabloid site like wikipedia.

as per Jakob Nielsen's Alertbox, October 9, 2006: Participation Inequality: Encouraging More Users to Contribute

scholarwarrior-lad Featured By Owner Mar 2, 2007 Hobbyist General Artist

Well, that's what's wrong with wikipedia man. Did you try putting it on an edited & peer reviewed one like h2g2?

Limetastic Featured By Owner Mar 1, 2007 Professional Photographer

=/ I'm sorry that people keep changing it. I stopped looking at the wiki of deviantART. It's constantly changing and it just annoys me. Don't let people get to you though. Those of us who have been around and pay attention know our history.

Hollow-Phoenix Featured By Owner Mar 1, 2007

Generally, wikipedia is against anyone involved with the article making changes. Your best bet is to post in the discussion tab, explaining who you are, what you want changed, and cite your sources, preferably from people who are not you.

DreadedWalrus Featured By Owner May 27, 2007

Hooray! Someone who makes sense.

renonevada Featured By Owner Mar 1, 2007 Hobbyist Traditional Artist

So on another topic, how's that lawsuit bullshit? I remember people harping on about that for a long time then nothing. Poof! Gone. Guess it's the nature of people, to forget and move on once a topic is no longer hot.

spyed Featured By Owner Mar 3, 2007 Hobbyist General Artist

There are and have not been any pending lawsuits against deviantART or myself.

renonevada Featured By Owner Mar 3, 2007 Hobbyist Traditional Artist

Now THAT is the funniest thing I've heard all day. After all that hooplah there never was even a lawsuit. Wonder where all that donated money went to...

spyed Featured By Owner Mar 5, 2007 Hobbyist General Artist

I don't find it funny.

ShadowWalkerInc Featured By Owner Feb 28, 2007

"reality has become a commodity"

Aeires Featured By Owner Feb 28, 2007

It'll be a great day on planet earth when wikipedia is no longer taken seriously.

radioPooh Featured By Owner Feb 28, 2007

you lived with the hardware . i so understand that . i stayed with you and dA has become so professional .. and i am on board .

i suspeced it was a hard decision . you gave us an oppertunity to ask about it a recent meeting

i felt awkard but wanted to ask

i support the site / vision / and one day to be hired ( you can't afford me right now)

will happen

i placed my chips on your plate

recently i was so supported by senior staff it made my head dizzy ( my princess moonbeam13 ) ..

i am a healthcare professonal ( a project director for health care / 28 years ) .

IT is a matter of life and death in health care . .. no kidding

IT on deviantART is what makes me feel better at night and i live on it / it's a matter of life and death for me

i like where you have directed / i like how professional we have become ( nods ) .

DigiAvalon Featured By Owner Feb 28, 2007

Your not worryed about the people who disagree with the whole jark thing, so just consider it the same, its an opinion and if its changed someone else who was envolved in the matter will fight it as well as there was alot of talk and debate about this subject.

spyed Featured By Owner Mar 1, 2007 Hobbyist General Artist

there isn't much debate, there's a lot of talk. a whole "side" of the story has not been told due to legal restraints.

-- A

DigiAvalon Featured By Owner Mar 1, 2007

Well the point is there will always be talk even if it were all to releasted I mean look at the OJ trial and how that turned out even when a ruleing was made people still talked and hell the guy relased a danm book and they still can't touch him. So don't bother yourself with what one person or site says compared to what you feel happend as it won't really make a big diffrence in the end because what happaned did and it's over. Focuse on the future of dA not its past

after all in the end we can only move forword and prove ourself though what we do, not what we did. Just do you job and what bestr for the site people will aruge regardless and not all statments are worth loseing sleep over ^_~

narishma Featured By Owner Feb 28, 2007

Honestly, I guess my only question is, 'why do you care so much?' Aside from the fact that Wikipedia is not exactly the cream of the crop when it comes to factual and historical information, how many people 'browse' wikipedia for information on the 'glory days' of deviantart? Your successes are measured by your current product -- what dA has become. History is written by the victors -- except in the case of an online encyclopedia that anyone can modify

I am a big fan of Jark, he was the first person to talk to me on dA 6 years ago... but I think this whole dispute thing is way over the top from a public perspective. I do, however, still think deviantart is great and commend your efforts. My 2 cents: you shouldn't lose sleep over what people think or may interpret on the internet.