DeviantArt must transform. The live product is failing to interest as many new members as it used to. We've identified many of the reasons for this, and we're making transformative changes to help new users adopt DeviantArt. We especially want new users to come in and Watch Deviants, and begin conversing about Art. Ultimately we want new Deviants to post Deviations and contribute to the community. DeviantArt is meant as the place to support people in the world as they become more creative in their lives. As a community, we represent the journey of being a more creative person.
The current state of DeviantArt isn't adequately communicating our value to new members. And the products they are using confuse them. We've interviewed new members on the phone, in surveys, via email. We know what the issues are.
To fix these issues DeviantArt is transforming. These transformations are often annoying to existing members. Please don't think we're doing these things to annoy you, we're actually doing these things to improve the community and the ease with which new members can join in on the community. DeviantArt is 15 years old, the world out there has changed a lot over the past 15 years. There are expectations that new members have that older members have become comfortable with.
So. Let's get specific.
We want to remove Watch from inside of Notifications and give it a proper home where it can breathe, and truly allow your Watch to shine. Notifications (where your Feedback and Notices live) will continue on with a similar approach, but will be updated visually to be more attractive. Don't panic, we understand how sensitive such an uplift is. Consider this: We (the team of DA) love the way Feedback works in your Notifications. Everything about it. So the essence of this will not change, but certainly some design tweaks wouldn't hurt it. We also think we can provide a better "All" state that will help you get through your Notifications faster.
To achieve the extraction of Watch, we run into some dependencies. Things we have to do to get there, especially in light of your feedback to us on the Watch Beta, and the older Watch Beta that's currently live on the homepage.
We understand that it is very important to you to visit your Watch, and see what is New there. The Watch Beta, the other Watch Beta, they both failed at this. They just feed you what's newest, but they don't specifically call out what's changed and what's new in your Watch. And this is a key feature. We would like to do this, but we are having some trouble producing a system that achieves a more powerful method of consuming your watch, while also making it possible to see exactly what is new. This type of thing should be easy. But it isn't. We will solve this, and at that time and with some testing we will roll it out. We will not move Watch out of Notifications until we have proper levels of adoption from long time members so that we know for certain you like the new approach. We aren't there yet. So don't panic. Your Notifications Watch will not change until it is clear in our usage patterns that active, long time members of DeviantArt really like it. We are not there yet.
We are going to put a huge amount of resources on to this problem until we can safely make this transition. We must make this transition. We aim to achieve this over the next 3-4 months. Stating things like, "Don't move the Watch out of Notifications" is not an option. Providing feedback to the staff about how to make the Watch function better than the Notifications Watch is the only option, and it is where we need your feedback. Ultimately, Watch must come out of Notifications. It must. Without this change, the platform of DeviantArt is too difficult for new members to use. All of the data, all of our interviews, all of our traffic models demonstrate that this is the problem.
Don't shoot the messenger.
We need your support to do this. So I wanted to explain why we're doing it in hopes that it will bring you to understand the need.
If you have any questions I'm happy to talk to you about it. Some of your questions might be too complicated to answer but I will try my best.
I notice that there are less interactions, comments and favourites. I always loved DA but it seems to be a little less funny...
Okay, so I joined the kisekae group on deviantart, and then I left it. I don't really make kisekae pictures anymore, and I am not part of that group anymore, but I am still getting notifications about kisekae pictures. Help?
More and more I am finding images of my characters among fave collections that include BDSM, explicit poses, sexual situations (some bordering on rape), and nude 3D works that appear to feature underage subjects.
I have written two journals about this asking people who are apparently into such work to not fave my art, but seemingly to no avail.
Many of the illustrations I create and post involve young or youthful looking characters that are from my storylines. I find it unnerving that when I check out the collection of the member who faved the work I find often find it amidst mostly by erotic and highly suggestive works. I have no issue with tasteful artistic nudes, but there is a good portion of work I see in these collections I feel goes far beyond "artistic" and more to borderline "pornographic". This makes me wonder about the reason the work of mine was chosen (particularly when it is of one of my more youthful characters).
I know I can block individual members but that is a fairly involved process having to go through the entire faves list and viewing collection after collection to determine whether I feel it is an appropriate place to have my works seen in and requesting my images be deleted before blocking an individual.
This journal should have shown up in site-news/events feed in our inboxes, like wrecklings site updates used to. You would have gotten more input/eyeballs if it had.
The result is for twice the price you had FEWER THAT HALF the buyers. YOU LOST MONEY. You also lost LOYAL LONG-TIME USERS over this.
What's more, you stopped DEVELOPING the website features (for the most part) at the same time. Prices went up, perceived value went down, customers went elsewhere. This is Market 101 stuff, guys, you had to know this would be the reaction.
We miss the weekly updates, we miss seeing new features regularly in development, we miss wreckling's journal entries showing up in our inboxes with excitement and hope for the future of this community. Ever since you made the transition from to things have gone to hell. Its not the rebranding in and of itself, its losing who you were, who we were as a community. You had millions of artists right here that you didn't even consult before the changes, and blew a bunch of money on some marketing firm outside the community and suddenly needed a bunch more money to operate. Perhaps without that move, you wouldn't be so hard up for cash now.
Remember where the value of the site comes from. USER GENERATED CONTENT. And us users come here because we like the features/CMS and the Communities that have developed here. But we see our communities, our niche groups, eroding away. With each year a great many very talented artists either leave dA (whatever the reason) or give up on their art entirely. When that happens, we all lose.
By the way, when you changed the readable dA logo to the weird symbol, some of us started calling you "the website formerly known as dA", after all, this wasn't the first time something like this has happened. We all have identity crises from time to time.
-Remember where the value of the site comes from. USER GENERATED CONTENT. And us users come here because we like the features/CMS and the Communities that have developed here. But we see our communities, our niche groups, eroding away. With each year a great many very talented artists either leave dA (whatever the reason) or give up on their art entirely. When that happens, we all lose.-
Is exactly what's happened. The best art was on here. Now, it might still be, but I can only find it bc I already Watch that artist. Not bc I found anything new. Which I haven't bc the search results come up with practically nothing even though new work is being posted by my Watch. Sad but this is a major fail. Insta is fine but not the same.
But, if we lose those three key features of the existing system, then the watch becomes as CRAPPY as tumblr's/facebook's systems, where all you see is the latest posts with terrible navigation and infinite scrolling that just keeps eating memory until your browser crashes, and you're lucky to be able to go more than a week back before this happens if you have a busy feed.
The reason we LIKE the inbox system for notifications is as stated above, it allows us to SEE WHAT WE'VE MISSED on a per-artist basis instead of having low-frequency artists get swallowed up in all the noise from the busier ones.
If the notifications model is becoming burdensome to the database (as so many notices might well be), then perhaps a more efficient model would be to use a single DATE value to set the cutoff filter rather than per-item flags/records being added to the table for each deviation sent as an inbox notification item.
I'm not sure how we would update this per-artist date value for each user's watch, that merits further discussion.
On the subject of INFINITE SCROLLING. The REASON IT WORKS FOR NATIVE iPHONE APPS is Apple had to LIMIT THE AMOUNT OF MEMORY IT CONSUMED. To do this as you scroll down and load new things IT UNLOADS THE OLD ONES ABOVE. If, you would implement a similar memory-limited version of the scrolling that uses ajax to fetch new items, but also purges old items from the DOM (yes, you will have to adjust scrolling for this behavior) then the infinite scroll could work well. But, if you continue to use it as fake-book does, then it is little more than an infinite loop with a memory leak. Let go of the past items, embrace the new ones.
You buried the watch feature somewhat, from the perspective of long time users. So just a few minutes ago I tried it for the first time.
I know you don't want to hear ITS CRAP, but maybe if it wasn't you wouldn't have to hear that.
This is what I was talking about.
WE NEED PER ARTIST/PER GROUP filtering and navigation. THIS IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN TIME-BASED SORTING.
WE DON'T NEED to load all the images at once, we could limit it to see only the current artist/group or the PRIORITY WATCHLIST. This is eating bandwidth unnecessarily, and despite the intended layout this behavior is extremely MOBILE UNFRIENDLY. Data transfer costs money, for you AND your visitors/users. Don't WASTE it.
WE DON'T NEED INFINITE STUPIDITY SCROLLING, we need logical navigation to find the artists we wish to see updates from first. Perhaps the ability to customize a sort-order by artist would help. This infinite load model is CRAP it will out-of-memory crash the browser before any of us ever catch up on our watches.
WE DON'T NEED ANOTHER GORRAM FACEBOOK CLONE!!! Enough with this crappy model. It's absolute garbage on tumblr feeds, why the hell would you want to imitate that crap???
What kind of watch doesn't actually keep some kind of track of what we've SEEN and what is still NEW TO US? This is what I'm talking about, stupid scrolling through a stupid timefeed, that doesn't let us ACTUALLY see what we've missed... instead we are supposed to scroll and scroll and scroll until we are hit by deja vu and conclude that we've seen the rest. probably. maybe. ?
None of these changes are improvements over the inbox model.
This is not an acceptable substitute. You are KILLING one of the most useful features on deviantArt in favor of some crappy social-media reject clone interface. This is one less reason to stay. This forced change, with the interface as it currently is, will cost you even more loyal users that have been reluctant to migrate to other websites.
You should be considering how to combine the BEST elements of both watch interfaces, instead you seem to pick from the WORST elements of each. Your current beta implementation WASTES SYSTEM RESOURCES AND BANDWIDTH, to create an UNPLEASANT USER EXPERIENCE that results it total loss of control over the feed.
Look at your assumptions. ALL ACTIVITY IS NOT EQUAL. Each user has certain artists they want to follow CLOSELY and other artists they like to check in on from time to time. More specifically, we want to chose the order we see things in our feed, regardless of how recent or distant the updates may be. Even fakebook allows you to create an inner circle that you want to see more activity from, as well as limiting the inflow from others. (some groups we like are just too busy with things we don't, doesn't mean we want to unwatch the group, but it does mean we want to lower its priority in our feed)
If you let us GROUP our watches (as the manage watches/friends interface allows for), then perhaps we could create meaningful navigation for ourselves. But a timefeed without the ability to filter in and out artists and determine exactly how far back we look AND the ability to put the OLDEST of the matched results first, does not meet the needs of existing members, nor the hopes of new ones.
Why oldest first? Well, I don't know about you, but I read from the oldest/first page of the book to the newest/last page. MANY deviations are part of a series that is MEANT TO BE VIEWED IN SEQUENCE. Yes, I want to see the new pages, BUT I want them in the CORRECT ORDER. Since the website lacks native support for DEVIATION SERIES, we depend on watch order and artist filtering to locate the next chapter/page/piece in the set.
The ability to watch specific folders could provide some series functionality, 'tis far better that nothing, and would help tremendously on group-watches.
This feature would be relative easy to implement in either the watch-feed or watch-notification models. Though, as things are often moved into different folders after submission, the feed model would implement this better. (using the current folder, not the one at time of upload/notice)
Better control over content-ratings filters would also be a welcomed feature. Allowing users to chose what degree of nudity, violence, sexuality, blasphemy, etc. works better than a boolean yes/no mature filter. Look at the degree-of-content model on some of your competitors (that you have lost artists to) like hentaiFoundry, furAffinity, and Pixiv. I understand you are uncomfortable with some levels of adult content, but you are losing high-value content and artists because of this. Rather than be overly stringent on allowed content, you should have a better warning/filtering system. Some people hate violence. Some people hate pacifism. Some people hate nudity. Some people hate prudism/excessive modesty. Some people hate blasphemy. Some people hate religion. There is no one "don't offend anybody" filter that fits everything, even if there was, some of us would be offended by the overly PC filter. LET US DECIDE WHAT IS GOOD AND WHAT IS TOO FAR. We are not children. This is a community of ADULT ARTISTS, traditionally in BOTH MEANINGS of the term, you didn't name the site kindergardenArt.com . Perhaps you need to expand what is allowed to bring in more artists and more of that precious USER GENERATED CONTENT that allows you to sell advertisements. Whether or not you personally like adult content, it brings eyeballs and sells ads.
The content limitations have also been a factor forcing artist to explore your competitors. Even artists that only occasionally create such content, like a love scene in a movie/story, have been pushed away by your policies. At the least they are becoming familiar/comfortable going elsewhere to post their content. This makes it that much easier for them to jump ship altogether when they don't like the changes to this site.
That was not the only time you have had a rogue advertiser. It has happened SO OFTEN and to such an extent allowing MALWARE INFECTIONS that your old advertising domains/sub-domains have made the Microsoft MVPs BLACKLIST, and are BLOCKED by the HOSTSFILE on computers implementing their security filter. That list doesn't automatically block ads, it blocks KNOWN DISTRIBUTORS OF MALWARE. If you cared enough to police your advertisers better and protect your userbase, you might not have so many users/visitors blocking your advertisements. (If you do extend content ratings, you should consider implementing a content-rating filter on advertisements as well, showing only appropriate ads to your users)
Here is a simple, but serious thought for advertising and core members. One of your selling points for (Premium/)Core Membership has always been Ad-Free browsing. For BROWSING this is great, but BROWSERS don't generally by such membership, ARTISTS DO. What do we care about Ads? WE DON'T WANT THEM IN OUR GALLERIES!!! We are less concerned with seeing them in other people's galleries when we do browse. I realize we are talking about removing ads from some of the most frequented galleries, but its a much bigger selling point that taking them out of the browsing interface in general. Artists care about HOW THEIR CONTENT IS DISPLAYED, not how they see the content of others. (You are a site for artists, right?)
Same goes for the sit-back slideshow. Storing the settings as a visitor/browser preference is FAR LESS VALUABLE than the ARTIST/GROUP DECIDING HOW THEIR SLIDESHOW SHOULD PLAY.
Simple changes that sell more memberships. It doesn't always require expensive R&D for features, sometimes small tweaks can have big payouts.
But I do have a suggestion. The ability to have sit back mode go backwards. I noticed a lot of multi part sequences have the last part first and you have to hit the previous button to view them properly.
I was looking for a solution to a problem and found this instead so I figured I'd give my perspective. I realize that I'm probably not the typical member here so I may see things a bit diffrently and my opinions will not reflect what the general folks here want or think, which probably makes my opinion somewhat irrelevant!.
I made an account some months ago and I've just started populating it some weeks ago, slowly. I've known DA since day 1, I've been in the art industry for just a bit longer than that, but always avoided DA for... reasons.
I decided to jump in now and give it a try as I'm needing to work a lot less nowadays which opens up time to try new things and mediums (I wanted to teach myself pottery and ended up with 3D printing for now :/) and DA always seemed like a very generalistic place (as opposed to Artstation, conceptart.org, CGHub etc) and good for throwing that stuff against the wall and see what sticks.
The things I like about DA are that it feels open to any kind of art like said. You can find beautiful paintings, 3d art, jewelry, clothing, photography etc, which makes it (in theory) a great resource to find stock photos or inspiration for designs of any kind.
The things that kept me away all this time were (and there might be options or workarounds that are not obvious enough and I'm not aware of):
1. The colors... I do like the green in general, but for viewing art, it's simply not neutral enough, there's too much baggage attached to colors that detract from what you're looking at or reading. The green always felt more like a juvenile choice, especially nowadays when most art packages and websites sport slick dark grays, which are more neutral and pleasant to browse with. So, an alternate, more modern color scheme would be really nice to keep up with the times and appeal to the wildly different art and age groups that DA seems to attract.
2. I always, always, always associated DA with furries (in a sexual context) and disproportionately emotional people... which wasn't my crowd. I didn't even know voring was a thing... until I saw this post, and eeuuuhh...
That said, just because I can't wrap my head around something, I'm not going to judge it, but it's that kinda stuff that for me always stuck and defined DAs identity. Other art sites carried more specific art, compared to that, DA was the place for... the unusual tastes and all kinds of fetish. I thought Tumblr had taken over on that front, but after looking at the voring stuff here...
I always felt that the kind of art that interests me (personally) would get drowned in all the fur and selfies. After making an account and doing more filtering, watching etc it gets a lot better, but for an unregistered outsider, the first impression can be pretty brutal... unless of course that IS what you're looking for.
It's a shame because there's some great stuff on DA from all possible categories and mediums and I keep discovering things I never expected to find here.
3. Given all the voring etc, the watching feature mentioned here comes in very handy. So far the big Watch button at the top is dissapointing in how it presents results. The watching list under notifications with all the filters on the left and proper thumbnail presentation is much much better and easy enough to grasp quickly.
4. I actually forgot.
5. After reading the tone of some of the comments to this post, I have to go back to the 'disproportionately emotional people' comment I made.
The community, humans and furries alike are just as responsible for the success or failure of a website as is the work the creators put into it.
There's a guy who complained here who wrote everything in caps and spanish... using words and expressions I wouldn't use for a mass murderer, let alone regular human beings (or furries!?) that are trying to make things better here.
I imagine the tone of a lot of posts reflects the age and maturity of the community, which has always been a big turn off for me, since if that's supposed to be the general tone here, it makes it hard to take the whole place seriously... after all, who wants to discuss art with people like that.
In my humble opinion, some of the outbursts here (over nothing) would serve better aimed towards actual issues worth an emotional response, like global warming related issues, political corruption, human and animal abuse of any kind...
The rest of what happens in life... whether someone steals your art (a form flattery!) or a feature here is broken or not working as expected is all inconsequencial in the grand scheme of things. 10 years from now, your life will be exactly where it would be if a feature had worked better or had there been less spam bots.
The issues are worth some thought and fixes, as striving to be better, as a community, website or human being is always worth it, but the emotional response given to a problem should be proportional to the importance of the issue vs. everything else in life.
In order to be respected, we have to be respectful to begin with, otherwise noone will really miss us when we leave in anger... such people are never a big loss to anyone, only an embarassment and constant nuisance.
Sorry for the lecturing, I realize it won't make me more popular here, but some of it was part of my work until last year when I decided to live more and work less, so maybe DA will be my new outlet for that, too!
I´m working on my "respectful treatment of others" - here! Actually, I draw to normalize my inner levels - here!
I´m totally d´accord with you - the presentation is just lousy & it took me months to get along with all needed features.
But dA is a growing place - this is something, I always missed on tumblr. That is so... like anywhere else... so bare of any soul.
All the others are so "professional" - BÄRKS!!
Welcome to "The Whacky Crew" - all green here...
Spyed, if you truly want to FIX your website, I would advise you LISTEN. I am really getting tired of you beating around the bush with useless and unhelpful solutions.
First of all, leave that alone. Instead, put your time, effort, what little you have along with your your money where your users are.
Let's make a list of issues related to users, shall we dear sir?
ART THEFT - Get a better system to sort those irritations out.
SPAM BOTS - NO. Just ban them please. As my friend said in a video before, they can in fact get your IP or addresses due to it. dangerous.
FETISH 'ART' - ACTUAL DRAWINGS OF Art in this category (as long as it has the mature filter on that's a mUST) is alright in my books. HOWEVER, I am going to leave an important video here: www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWxspt… take notes despite my unprofessionalism in the video.
LACKING DA STAFF - Why not hire some of your users/members to do it voluntarily? I'll gladly do it! Long as they've been here for at least a year, go for it. Heck, I'm actually willing to do so. You're welcome for the free labour.
am I missing anything? I know I am but I can't think on it. Users, why not add to my list? feel free to! c:
mature things being posted and people choosing not to put a warning
literal groups dedicated to the sexualizing of woman
the fact that groups have been abandoned, left to fend on there own without help
paying money for a core so that your page doesnt look like myspace
IVE ONLY BEEN HERE FOR A WEEK!! SO MANY PROBLEMS
NO WAY TO FILTER THINGS
every freaking time i look at my notifications, i have 3000 watch notifications!!
The reporting options are very limited in the case of stolen art, asking if it's the reporter's intellectual property being stolen.
This is the closest I can get to reporting art that's been stolen from other's profiles.
Why can't we help our fellow deviants out? Why must it be exclusive to individuals that see their stolen art?
Another thing I must add, how can we protect the site from pedophiles? There are many younger teens here, at least 13 years of age. How can we protect them?
the amount on this site is !@#$ing horrendous and you should allow other people report NOT THE ORIGINAL artist you lazy shits
should do your job properly then instead of changing useless crap thats its not needed..
expeshally the goddamn disgusting porn on this site.... it shouldn't EVEN be on a PG13 SITE
and not to mention "tracers" as well -.-
THEN MAYBE JUST MAYBE YOU WILL GET ARTISTS ACTUALLY STAY ON THIS DAMN SITE
because the time its 2018 this site will be shut down because
I am sick and death tired of Art thieves/Tracers being allowed on this damn site...
and same with people who put photos of their disgusting bits DON'T NEED TO SEE that shit on this site :/