Pronouns I should use for Freek http://spitfiresonice.deviantart.com/gallery/38591888 ? I have the ones I wanna use in mind already, just wanna hear opinions. Freek is agender/gender neutral.
|54 votes
he/him/his/himself (I used to use this, but... Freek is not a guy and I don't want people to assume this character is male).
15%
they/them/their/themself (I tried to use this too, but for some reason I can't get my mind to refer to Freek with these so I keep messing it up)
22%
it/it/its/itself (I feel like these fit Freek best out of any I can find, but apparently people think these are offensive. But well, if the character doesn't take offense to it (which Freek doesn't) then I don't see why this is a problem?)
59%
Other pronouns (thing is, I can't get my mind to use others for Freek either, it just doesn't feel right to me)
4%
SpitfiresOnIce's avatar
By SpitfiresOnIce   |   Watch
79
Published: May 11, 2014
Comments71
anonymous's avatar
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Hawkieface's avatar
HawkiefaceHobbyist Writer
Well here I was casually thinking he was male o-o
But it's up to you ^w^ if you think "it" works best, then use that c: it's not offensive unless the one being called "it" objects c:
SpitfiresOnIce's avatar
SpitfiresOnIceHobbyist Digital Artist
Yep, that's why I don't want to use those pronouns any longer xD
And Freek does not object, so :dummy:
Hawkieface's avatar
HawkiefaceHobbyist Writer
Yee :dummy:
aIbtrs's avatar
"It" is only offensive when used to refer to someone without permission to use it, so by all means go ahead if you feel that it fits best!

also sorry for making a mess of the comments, heh
SpitfiresOnIce's avatar
SpitfiresOnIceHobbyist Digital Artist
It's fine! I find it interesting to read these things, as I don't know everything about the gender spectrum yet, so it's interesting to read about other people's experiences. :)
Tremello's avatar
the comments on this poll burn me

if 'it' seems most appropriate and fitting, use 'it'. if freek wouldnt take offense to it, then its not offensive. ive met a number of actual people who asked for it/its/itself pronouns??? and they get people like THATS SO OFFENSIVE. like ok yeah in your opinion i guess and your opinion doesnt really matter here

plus it doesnt really matter what you end up using if you use something other than he or she someones gonna get pissy for one reason or another, so may as well go with your gut on it
SpitfiresOnIce's avatar
SpitfiresOnIceHobbyist Digital Artist
I can see what you mean there xD

Yea... it's one of those cases where it only matters what the person themselves think about it xD

And yus, I noticed. And he or she just won't do in this case, so... :P
ZombieRaccoon5's avatar
ZombieRaccoon5Hobbyist Traditional Artist
Personally i think that the pronoun would go with what physical biological gender the organism is, regardless of mind set, because i have a homosexual friend who refers to herself as "she, her, etc."
The reason i think this is because a stranger approaching will refer to them by what they see, and it would be foolish to get offended over that.

And i hope i'm not out of term using you and griwi as an example, you two are aware you are female and refer to eachother as such...

There ya go! ;)
So what ever freek is! :3
SpitfiresOnIce's avatar
SpitfiresOnIceHobbyist Digital Artist
Sexuality and gender identity are different things. Of course me and Griwi call each other females, the fact that we're attracted to females doesn't mean we are not female... :XD:

Freek has no sex, so. I still find "it" more fitting :3
ZombieRaccoon5's avatar
ZombieRaccoon5Hobbyist Traditional Artist
i now agree! ;)
and "it" just sounds cuter... :p
aIbtrs's avatar
You're referring to sex; gender is unrelated to that. And homosexuality has absolutely nothing to do with what gender you are either.
Sex is what you are biologically, sexuality has to do with whom you're sexually attracted to, and gender has to do with how you feel, basically. For example, if your body was switched to that of another sex, you would (most likely) remain attracted to the same people you were attracted to before, and still maintain the mindset of your gender.
For example, I am agender but not sexless, and do not refer to myself with the pronouns that "match" my sex (unless required to in places where it would be unsafe to state otherwise.)
[just now noticed Logan responded, I'll continue however since I've been writing this for quite some time; I suppose this is in response to your reply to xem]
Although mistakes can be made, it's definitely much more respectful to use gender neutral pronouns until you're sure. I do agree that it's not something to get incredibly offended about if you're misgendered and should be politely corrected, but keep in mind that social dysphoria is terrible, and misgendering someone can cause a lot of identity confusion for a lot of people. I assure you that it can be incredibly harmful; I barely even believe myself to be the most dysphoric of people, and it can mess me up quite a bit. That's really the point here, giving everything a "that's just how it is" attitude can be harmful, and we're working to make it so that mistakes are minimum and thus less harmful. The world is far from perfect and never will be, but you have to actively work to make it the best it can be.
ZombieRaccoon5's avatar
ZombieRaccoon5Hobbyist Traditional Artist
To save some typing, me reply to you is the same for logan, and you bring up a good point, i can understand how it would cause confusion.
aIbtrs's avatar
By identity confusion, do you in fact know what I'm referring to? Correct me if I'm wrong for assuming you don't, but it isn't the same as simple confusion.
I already experience heavy derealization and dissociation; the feeling that you are not real, and feeling "spacey", for lack of a better word. This is without my gender dysphoria.
When being misgendered, people can experience this, as well as extreme anxiety (including possible panic attacks), depression, intense uncertainty about who they are, existential crises, body dysphoria (feeling they are in the wrong body), etc.
It can be incredibly unpleasant, although for most people it isn't incredibly severe in most cases, and some don't even experience it.
ZombieRaccoon5's avatar
ZombieRaccoon5Hobbyist Traditional Artist
well, clearly you and i have had very different exposures to this topic, you first hand, and very sensitive, and i have only acted off of what i have seen and heard, i suppose the homosexual/gender fluid etc. that i have know are very casual about it.
so i am sorry if i have caused any discomfort, i was merely talking off of my personal experiences with the topic.
aIbtrs's avatar
I'm sorry but I'm not sure what you're saying exactly.
And yes, in casual conversation and such it can often be, of course, casual
It's a very complex topic and I suppose I shouldn't be speaking about this while I'm tired
And don't worry about it; I'm fine, and I understand
Queash's avatar
The thing is: Physical Biological Sex (not gender! They are not the same thing!) is not a strict dictomathy, and as spitfiresonice has said, their character is Agender, meaning genderless in this case. If someone has no gender why would you use gendered pronouns for them, unless they prefer them for some reason?
Also did you mean to say homosexual friend there? Because sexuality and gender are not the same thing, and not related concepts, really.

Also, while I understand this is how most people do things and how we are taught, assuming someones gender purely on visual cues CAN be very offensive! While it will work out often enough, it's actually not difficult at all to use neutral pronouns if you are uncertain of someones gender (such as they/their/them) or even ASK what pronouns someone likes used for them!
ZombieRaccoon5's avatar
ZombieRaccoon5Hobbyist Traditional Artist
Very true!
And i missed the "agender" part above... :p oops.
And also with the "visual identification" i believe it should purely be seen as an inocent mistake if the person refers to you incorrectly, and should be corrected, then forgiven.

Our world dosn't need more foolish conflict over something as silly as calling a guy with long hair a "she" by accident (or visa versa)...

And i forgot to mention in my previous comment that if the person identifies as the opposite gender that they should be called by the pronouns they like. But again, correct and forgive, live and let live... :peace:
Queash's avatar
Mmm while I can understand an innocent mistake and many people WILL forgive these things, you need to think of these in a greater context: you misgender someone one day, and it was not intentional or malicious, but it happened. And it hurts. This person is probably misgendered often, multiple times in the same day - they have difficulty knowing with bathroom to use, in part because of concern for their own safety. People likely intentionally misgender them as well, tell them they are NOt the gender they are, sa because they have x body part they MUST be this, insult their appearance, trans people risk VIOLENCE for being who we are, when people even let us exist.
No, one accidental misgendering may be an innocent mistake, but is CAN hurt and even be dangerous in the wider scope of things.

And no, we don't need the conflict, but why should someone have to be misgendered to avoid it? Why can't others just not assume gender, or ask, or use neutral pronouns if unsure?

And while that's a good stance, there's more than "two genders" so there isn't really an opposite gender. Everyone should be called by the pronouns they like, and that is that.
ZombieRaccoon5's avatar
ZombieRaccoon5Hobbyist Traditional Artist
very true, i should've added to my original:
"everyone should be referred to as they wish"
:p i only took the original stance because the homosexuals i know personally refer to themselves as their "physical gender"
thank you for correcting me. :) (i'd hate to offend anyone... :/ )
Queash's avatar
Yep, there ya go!
Though like, you say you don't want to offend anyone so, I'm gonna try and correct something you are saying one more uwu
Because are you meaning to say homosexuals there?? Someones sexual attraction is NOT the same as a gender identity. Are you trying to say Transgender people?
Similarly, don't say homosexuals. Say homosexual people or something, but even then it may be better just to say gay or something! Homosexual as a word can carry a negative connotation. And, don't say "physical gender". If you MUST, say "physical sex" but understand that phrase is still limited. using "Physical ender" implies sex and gender are the same thing though, which they are not. c:
Thank you for being open to being corrected though!
Queash's avatar
It should be fine! It pronouns can be offensive to some people, especially trans people bUT if that's the pronoun that is most accuate and you don't meant it demeaningly there should be literally no problem?? I know some folks who prefer those pronouns, and it's not degrading to any of them, so there's no reason for there to be a fuss c:
SpitfiresOnIce's avatar
SpitfiresOnIceHobbyist Digital Artist
Yea, I thought so too ^^ As long as the person themselves takes no offense to them (which this character doesn't) there is no problem I think.
Queash's avatar
Yep, exactly!! c:
also semi apology for sort of making a mess in the comments here, huff huff
SpitfiresOnIce's avatar
SpitfiresOnIceHobbyist Digital Artist
Is fine! I find it interesting to read about these things :)
anonymous's avatar
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