literature

You don't have to change yourself to BE yourself

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sin-and-love's avatar
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Literature Text

I'm going to copy and paste some things I posted on a webcomic's comments section. THIS COMPLETELY ENDED A FLAME WAR.

It would probably be a good idea for me to explain a few things. In high school psychology class I was taught that one's sex and their gender are two different things. "Sex" refers to your physical genitals, while "gender" refers to your personality and behavior and such.
In humans there are two well defined sexes: male and female. Hermaphrodites (and whatever else might be out there) have deformities and/or mutations and such, and almost always lean toward one sex or the other. (Where people who have had a sex change operation fall is left to the individual to interpret.)
Gender is not so well defined. There's "male," "female," and then a spectrum of "androgynous" which takes characteristics from both.
However, different cultures around the world assign different preferred behaviors to the two sexes. In some those of the male sex act in ways we westerners perceive as feminine and the women are masculine (ex: the women are sexually aggressive and less emotional). In some both are masculine. In some both are feminine. In some everyone's androgynous. People act those ways because that's how they're raised. Testosterone and estrogen have nothing to do with it.
There's just no logical way that [someone] could've developed healthily in the womb and still be neither male nor female in terms of sex. But [they] could easily be neither male nor female in terms of gender. Being androgynous provides a wider range of experience and viewpoints, and it is probably best for society that we try to raise our children to be androgynous.

I guess it could sometimes be 'universal,' but it's usually more like 'mixed.' Some characteristics from male, some from female. I, for example, think of myself as androgynous. I like movies that have explosions, but I can also appreciate a touching love story. I will stop to adore and/or make faces t a cute baby, but I also have *cough* somewhat of an interest in *cough* where they come from. *COUGHCOUGHISTILLWEARAPURITYRINGCOUGHCOUGH*

I forgot to mention that sexual orientation deals only with one's sex and has nothing to do with gender.
Gender is entirely subjective in nature.  And some of you may tell me "It has nothing to do with what other people say you are, but with what you identify as," which makes no sense to me. If a man says that he's a Buddhist, but none of his views or beliefs could be described as anything other than Laveyan Satanist, would he not in reality be the latter?

Also, feeling "like a man trapped in a woman's body" is actually a genuine psychological disorder.

Edit:  I changed the title, at the suggestion of someone trying to help me get my message across.  I honesty should've done this a lot sooner.
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© 2015 - 2021 sin-and-love
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Kouraa's avatar
I kinda agree, on some points. Like "you don't have to change yourself to BE yourself." I agree with that.
GOJISAMA's avatar
"I forgot to mention that sexual orientation deals only with one's sex"
excuse me,
what?
What the hell do you wanna say by this?!
sin-and-love's avatar
One's sex, as opposed to one's gender.  When you use porn, do *you* give a crap what the performer identifies as? of course not, you only care about their body. thus sexual orientation has nothing to do with one's gender.
GOJISAMA's avatar
It have nothing to do with one's sex.
sin-and-love's avatar
you can't just make a claim in order for it to actually be true, you have to actually demonstrate why it's the case.  i.e. don't go "X is true," go "X is true, and here's why"
GOJISAMA's avatar
One thing.
I'm an asexual and panromantic. I do not care about the person's sex, I just don't wanna have any sexual relationships.
How the hell is sexual attraction determined by genitals? It can't make sense at all.
I'm thinking about pansexuals; they do not care about the person's sex or gender. Their sexual attraction just can't be determined by genitals..
sin-and-love's avatar
As you yourself just said, You don't know what it is to feel sexual attraction; the sensation is actually quite different from romantic attraction.

My best guess for pansexuals is that they're just bisexuals who think sexual attraction pertains to gender rather than sex.
LadyLambdadelta's avatar
Orientation has nothing to do with gender identity, for example a transgender woman that's attracted to woman is a lesbian.
sin-and-love's avatar
I am perfectly aware of this. In fact in other submissions I've gone out of my way to clarify this.
KittenPrince55's avatar
I was agreeing until you said sexual orientation is determined by genitals. NO IT IS NOT. I am a pansexual trans boy, I am attracted to people regardless of gender or sex. My boyfriend is bisexual, he is attracted to boys and girls whether they're trans or not. I am a boy. He loves me regardless of my gender and sex. He loves me for the gentleman I am.

Also, if a straight guy falls in love with a trans girl, HE IS NOT GAY BECAUSE OF HER DICK (if she's pre-op). He is still straight. If a straight girl falls in love with a trans man, SHE IS NOT A LESBIAN. She is still straight. My best friend's older brother Noah is transgender, he is engaged with a straight girl, Jenna. Jenna may be straight, but she doesn't care about Noah's biological sex or his genitals. 

Hearts, not parts. 

Stop invalidating us just for the sake of your precious straightness. 
sin-and-love's avatar
I can already tell you misunderstood me, but before I can respond I need you to clarify what you mean by "trans."  transgender or transsexual?
KittenPrince55's avatar
Either fucking one! Trans is a goddamn umbrella term for both, good fucking gracious. 

I'm transgender, pre-op and pre-T. 
sin-and-love's avatar
You trans folks always claim to be A man's mind trapped in a woman's body (or the inverse), correct? Well Let me ask you a question. When you look at porn, are you stimulated by their body, or their minds? Do you search for "hot pussy\dick"  or "hot person who claims to be a man\woman"?

I seriously doubt it's the second, so it ought to be clear from this that if I am attracted (solely) to people with the same anatomy as me, then I am homosexual, regardless of whether their mind matches their body.  If I am attracted (solely) to people with the opposite anatomy from me, then I am heterosexual, regardless of whether their mind matches their body.  This is what I meant when I said what I did, and also why I needed to know whether you were transgender or transsexual.

btw, If you'll look at the other stuff I have in this folder, you'll at some point find out that I think that which sex a transsexual fall under is up to the interpretation of the individual (note that when I said "determined by genitals' I meant "determined by anatomy").


[P.S. Remember, if your feelings contradict the facts, then it's your feelings that are wrong.]
Althric's avatar
I agree it's a psychological thing, but posting this on actual transgender peoples' content was probably a bad idea. It's obviously offended a fair few people.
Express your opinions but please don't shove them in people's faces. 
sin-and-love's avatar
I doubt that's what you'd be saying of this was refuting homophobia and it was homophobic content I was posting it on.
Althric's avatar
I'm sorry, I'm trying to wrap my head around what this is supposed to mean but it just doesn't make sense, could you please elaborate?
sin-and-love's avatar
You criticized me for "posting this on actual transgender peoples' content."

Now, imagine for a moment that 1) instead of the transgender movement, the aforementioned content was advocating homophobia, and 2) that I was posting links to something I wrote titled "Why 'Homophobes' have the wrong idea."

In that situation, would you still have criticized me for "shoving it in people's faces"?


I was pointing out how you would not, in spite of it basically being the same thing.
Althric's avatar
I'd still say the same thing.
Like I don't agree with homophobia but if that's what they wna do then whatever, I'm not gna stop em. I'd just leave them alone.
sin-and-love's avatar
well then imagine instead we were arguing over Trump and Hillary.


or maybe you should just read this: sin-and-love.deviantart.com/jo…
Althric's avatar
You realize all I said was that you probably shouldn't spam people's profiles with links to your controversial journals, because it just causes drama where there shouldn't be any?
sin-and-love's avatar
okay, I've been trying to explain to you why this "people shouldn't argue since it causes drama" philosophy is a bad idea. What do you think would happen if politicians started applying it?
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WideEyedAndWorried's avatar
"There's just no logical way that [someone] could've developed healthily in the womb and still be neither male nor female in terms of sex." - Hahahaha, what? You JUST mentioned intersex people in this post (or hermaphrodites as the people from 200bc like to call them). You're TALKING to someone who developed healthy in the womb and is neither female or male in terms of sex. Christ, you can led a horse to water but you can't make it drink. 

"
Also, feeling "like a man trapped in a woman's body" is actually a genuine psychological disorder. " - And yet, it's not mentioned in the DSM no non-conservative Christian/other loony funded psychiatric association would agree with you. 

sin-and-love's avatar
"Hahahaha, what? You JUST mentioned intersex people in this post (or hermaphrodites as the people from 200bc like to call them)."

That's my point. notice how I specified someone who developed healthily. Hermaphroditism in humans is by nature a deformity, no different from a snake born (hatched?) with legs, or (assuming we are indeed born with it) someone born with Autism, like me.

"
You're TALKING to someone who developed healthy in the womb and is neither female or male in terms of sex"

The fact that you said "sex" instead of "gender" shows that you weren't even paying attention to what you were reading. I'm pretty sure you've told me before that you are not a hermaphrodite.

"
And yet, it's not mentioned in the DSM no non-conservative Christian/other loony funded psychiatric association would agree with you."

They only took it out because transgenders were verbally abusing them for putting it there in the first place.  Much like what you're doing.
WideEyedAndWorried's avatar
So I'm not healthy? Sweetheart, just because I have a "deformity" (we prefer to think of ourselves as not being deformed, mutated or abnormal surprising, but rather we posses differentiating sex hormones, sex characteristics, gonads or genitals) does not mean I'm unhealthy. Poor health is equivocal to pain, lowering of lifespan, distress, being sickly etc. Would you call a woman with a second toe "unhealthy" if it caused her no ailment or harm? If your autism is causing you, or leading to significant, chronic distress, then yes, your autism is causing you to be unhealthy. However, my intersexuality does not cause me any distress, pain and doesn't lower my life span, so how exactly does it make me unhealthy? 

I'm no different from a snake born with two heads? Oh honey. Are you really to socially demented to see how that's a very cruel thing to say? See, that's number 30329 of why I don't like you, you bitch that I'm mean, but then say incredibly malicious things, not because you're actually malicious you understand but because you're clearly too socially defective to know any better.

"I'm pretty sure you've told me before that you are not a hermaphrodite." - I am fascinated to see the discussion in which I have said to you "I am not a hermaphrodite". 

"
The fact that you said "sex" instead of "gender" shows that you weren't even paying attention to what you were reading." - No sweetie, it's you who fucked up their, perhaps you meant gender, but you wrote sex ("There's just no logical way that [someone] could've developed healthily in the womb and still be neither male nor female in terms of sex.")

No they took it out of the DSM because psychiatry progressed and MRI scans and collective forms of qualitative and quantitative research was conducted that showed that transexuality is very clearly not a mental illness. I mean, you can turn that on it's head to anything now can't you? "oh they don't do blood letting anymore? That's because all those people with 
anaemia verbally abused doctors for doing it". Oh we don't preform lobotomies anymore? That's because all those people with schizophrenia verbally abused the doctors into not performing it anymore". No sweetheart, it's because they ARE OUTDATED MODES OF THINKING.  

Also again, those doctors who use to diagnose trans people as being mentally ill would often forcefully drug their patients, institutionalise them in the most horrible places, break confidentially codes, literally have them put in prison etc. Ever heard of Allan Turing? Read about what they did to him. Now imagine if they did that to a wealthy WW2 hero solely because he's gay, can you imagine what they did to trans people back in the day? The people who conducted such horrors. You call them victims. Ask me again why I utterly despise you?
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