Monte Carlo vs MB3D

by Sabine62, Feb 23, 2015, 1:35:42 AM
Journals / Personal

Same settings, two renderers... I still cannot make up my mind

I like both, but the in the MC-render the positional light is better (we have windows panes now , it seems

), but it's much more grainy, while the MB3D-render is smooth but the positional lights are less spectacular.
Should I have let the MC run even longer? Changed settings?
And which one do you like better? And why? Your input would be very welcome!

MC Render (+/- 18 hours)

MB3D render (+/- 1.5 hours incl. reflections)

62 Comments

Monte Carlo vs MB3D by Sabine62

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44aboriginny2014 Featured By Owner Mar 10, 2015 Hobbyist General Artist

I like the MB3D rendering better.

Sabine62 Featured By Owner Mar 10, 2015

Thank you very much for your opinion, Jonathan, much appreciated!

I still think different about them every day

Jakeukalane Featured By Owner Feb 26, 2015 Hobbyist Digital Artist

I didn't know about Montecarlo, I should investigate.

Sabine62 Featured By Owner Feb 27, 2015

If you have a LOT of spare computertime, do!

Jakeukalane Featured By Owner Feb 27, 2015 Hobbyist Digital Artist

I did a search yesterday but I couldn't find it. Is a plugin of MB3d or were I can downloaded it?

Sabine62 Featured By Owner Feb 27, 2015

It is in the menu at Utilities>M.C>

dark-beam Featured By Owner Feb 26, 2015 Student Artist

Try to use 3 4 colors in an image vs white surfaces.
The white will absorb colors nicely in mc mode!

Sabine62 Featured By Owner Feb 26, 2015

It did very beautifully diffuse in a test, but then I had only 1 color. I will test again with more! Thank you for the tip, Luca!

dark-beam Featured By Owner Feb 26, 2015 Student Artist

A secret.
Mc renders show the real potential in presence of strong lights/colors where they can be diffused and scattered uniformly

Sabine62 Featured By Owner Feb 26, 2015

I will try

Thank you for your kind tips, Luca!

SoulcolorsArt Featured By Owner Feb 24, 2015 Hobbyist Digital Artist

Don't know these programs, but I like the first better, because of the colors and it is softer. I know this doesn't help ha ha ha

Sabine62 Featured By Owner Feb 24, 2015

An opinion is an opinion, Ingeborg, and always of value

Even though I more and more prefer the second after all (though it's by no means perfect), the first still has some great advantages too: the softness of the light and the blues that really jump at you

And that is why I'll go on experimenting with the MC-renders... when I sleep or am on a short holiday

Thank you!

SoulcolorsArt Featured By Owner Feb 24, 2015 Hobbyist Digital Artist

have fun

batjorge Featured By Owner Feb 23, 2015 Professional Digital Artist

You must adjust light setting specially for the mc render switching-importing back and forth to the main window. Also it seems thatr the quality settings from the main window affect the MC render. Even my friend pointed me out that MC makes a very intensive use of the hard disk if you have checked the auto saving m3c file. :\
Of course it is a good idea to do small preview renders before jumping into eternal renders.
In my humble opinion is only worth to do when you have a lightweight scene you think is exceptional for you

Your image would need another 18 hrs or even more, cause it is still grainy. Good thing is you can stop it anytime and continue it where you left

Sabine62 Featured By Owner Feb 24, 2015

Thank you, Jorge! The light-switching is a great tip, I will certainly try that! I have done it only once or twice, but only because MC was moaning about wrong lights, I never knew it could really enhance the lighting in MC after all :} Luckily I have always unchecked the autosave

Still, even though I have told mb3d to run only normal priority, and I am lately overclocking my gpu now an then (YAY!!!

), but since it is cpu-based it still asks a lot from my computer when it runs. You must also be right about the quality settings. For this one above, I just downscaled the render to 800x600 while Raystep and Stepwidth were still at 0,08 and 0,3. More experiments are needed!

Gerda1946 Featured By Owner Feb 23, 2015 Hobbyist Digital Artist

Ik heb absoluut geen verstand van MB maar qua scherpte vind ik de onderste mooier!

Sabine62 Featured By Owner Feb 23, 2015

Ach, 'verstand van mb' heb ik ook niet (ik kan er wat plaatjes mee maken, maar dat is het dan ook), maar de bovenste vind ik korrellig! En dat na 18 uur...
Dank je wel, Gerda!

Gerda1946 Featured By Owner Feb 23, 2015 Hobbyist Digital Artist

Ik heb helemaal geen geduld voor 18 uur lol. Dan had ik de render allang afgebroken!

Sabine62 Featured By Owner Feb 23, 2015

Ik ben erg geduldig... soms

Die MC render kan dus sowieso alleen maar als ik slaap of niets met fractals wil doen.

Gerda1946 Featured By Owner Feb 23, 2015 Hobbyist Digital Artist

Daarom dus lol.

Misqua Featured By Owner Feb 23, 2015 Hobbyist Digital Artist

Sometimes the result is much better in MC, other times it's worse.
I tried it on an old laptop, after two hours I can see the result more or less and choose the best. Meow :3

Sabine62 Featured By Owner Feb 23, 2015

I think that is the most sensible thing to do. I have about the same experience as you, but I would so much love to know Why?!

There must be something that makes MC is very sensitive to, when it comes to importing the settings from mb3d. Well, trial and error it is

Thank you, Domingo!

eReSaW Featured By Owner Feb 23, 2015

da sich meine Kenntnisse von MB praktisch auf Null belaufen, kann ich nur bauchmäßig sagen, das mir das zweite besser (da kontrastreicher) gefällt als das erste (zu blass und irgendwie diffus) obwohl die glitzernden Fensterchen ja was haben.

Sabine62 Featured By Owner Feb 23, 2015

Ja! Bauchmässigkeit ist ja in diesem feld wohl die angesagte qualitätsnorm

Das oberste ist mir zu klinisch, nur die lämpchen retten es. Und warum ich mit denselben einstellungen zwei farblich/lichtmässig total verschiedene bilder bekomme... bleibt wohl vorläufig im dunkeln ;}

WolfSorcerer Featured By Owner Feb 23, 2015 Hobbyist Digital Artist

Admit the window panes and interior lights on the MC-render look a bit better, but the image in general is more untidy and not worth such a long render time vs result. Definitely prefer the MB3D one!

Sabine62 Featured By Owner Feb 23, 2015

Thank you, Sergio! Reading all this and looking again and again, I think in this case I should pass on the MC. I have had it run 8 more hours and the quality has only marginally improved. But I am quite determined to test some more with different kinds of structures/light settings. I have seen Very good MC renders on here...

WolfSorcerer Featured By Owner Feb 23, 2015 Hobbyist Digital Artist

Very welcome Sabine!

Honestly think that MC renders are more for technical geeks who need to show off a new toy and powerful equipment, than for artists. This said with all due respect.
In my opinion, you don't need it. You are one of the most impressive artists I've seen here. Will those endless render times affect your present output? If so, it's not worthwhile.

Sabine62 Featured By Owner Feb 24, 2015

Thank you, Sergio, you are so kind!

I just read Jorges comment and I think as usual he has a good point: only MC-render what is lightweight and also special to me. And of course, I must try his tips, they are always helping me a lot! And then (pssst don't tell anyone!) sometimes I am a bit of a geek myself... Not a very serious case I guess, but sometimes I just want to try crazy stuff just because I can, because it is possible, because if we never try we never find new things

And though usually I am happy enough what the normal render can do (and it is really not that bad at all), I have also seen some really breathtaking MC renders from others, so I am curious

So I hope to harmoniously combine: most of the time the normal render and sometimes (when I am away for the weekend!) the MC render

WolfSorcerer Featured By Owner Feb 24, 2015 Hobbyist Digital Artist

Always a pleasure!

Just read Jorge's comment and he is basically right. If there's something really valuable for you, try it. I'm always open to experimenting (yes, there's a little geek inside my brain too)
What I don't like are eternal renders, the usual render time vs final result equation. I wouldn't dare leaving my computer rendering for the weekend, we have blackouts here. I'm now figuring out which would be the best moment to render a Bryce image which promises to render in a bit more than 2 days at 2560p. Will probably reduce the size and leaving a few toys aside without compromising quality.

Sabine62 Featured By Owner Feb 24, 2015

Ohh my, power outages... luckily we don't have them, at least, I have experienced only two in my long long life

If there was a chance the power went out, I wouldn't dare render so long either! And with the rendering 'when and what' we are agreed

WolfSorcerer Featured By Owner Feb 25, 2015 Hobbyist Digital Artist

Sadly it happens. Most everything that was State owned went into private hands during the 90's. These companies are in it for the money with minimum investments. Energy generation and transportation work quite fine. It's the distribution system that's a total wreck. Long story...

Sabine62 Featured By Owner Feb 25, 2015

Ahh yes... privatisation is the blight of our time! A lot of things are going down the drain on the side of the pond as well through that. Sad, and we knew beforehand... And yes long story

(1 Reply)

jim373 Featured By Owner Feb 23, 2015 Digital Artist

The MB3D render is much better in every way.
The blue window lights can easily be replicated in Mandelbulb.

Sabine62 Featured By Owner Feb 23, 2015

Oh I find it so difficult! The MC for me is the more realistic one, but the MB3D I still like more, I think (after looking at them again and again :}). And yes, of course the blue positionals can be made a bit blue-er and brighter and the settings changed to make them stand out much more in the MB3D, though I think they are ok as they are right now, now I think about it. While the MC render really needs the bright blues to be interesting.

Thank you, Jim!

jim373 Featured By Owner Feb 26, 2015 Digital Artist

Jaffa-Tealc Featured By Owner Feb 23, 2015

I like the output of MC render as in my opinion it looks more realistic.

Sabine62 Featured By Owner Feb 23, 2015

Yes, I agree! The MC render is much more realistic. The mb3d is not really very realistic, though I must admit that I did not try to make it as realistic as possible. I would have taken other lights and shadows and probably even other colours. Sometimes unrealistic is just as nice

But sometimes we want realism! :}
Thank you Jan!

Jaffa-Tealc Featured By Owner Feb 24, 2015

You're welcome

This comparison inspired me to try the MC render but it looks like it will take a while

(36 hours of rendering and I don't still like the output

)

Sabine62 Featured By Owner Feb 25, 2015

LOL :}
Jorge gave the tip: first render very small and then send settings back and forth to mb3d main window until your light and colour settings are really good in MC. And only take lightweight renders ( that render really quick in mb3d) I will try that next time!Submit Comment

Jaffa-Tealc Featured By Owner Feb 25, 2015

"only take lightweight renders"... Hm, DEcombinate with reflection is not the case, right?

2 days and still noisy

But even if it will take a week I'll keep rendering as it seems good even with noise

Sabine62 Featured By Owner Feb 25, 2015

LOL that's the spirit, Jan!

Looking forward to your noisy work then

Undead-Academy Featured By Owner Feb 23, 2015 Hobbyist Digital Artist

Wow , I have tried the Monte Carlo takes way too long , I can't stand waiting , lol . Love the beautiful blue light in there though

but you can still get the lighting without doing the Monte Carlo right ?

Sabine62 Featured By Owner Feb 23, 2015

Yes I can get the lighting a bit like that, but not quite. MC does something to the general distribution (which no doubt is the wrong word) of light(s) over the structures which MB3D can't do. And I still am not sure if I really like MC better/always better/sometimes better

And most of all: worthwhile the fuss :} And also, since there is hardly anything to be found about how it works and how the settings work, finding out what does what boils down (AGAIN!) to trial and error. With a minimum of 18 hours per error, I guess

Undead-Academy Featured By Owner Feb 24, 2015 Hobbyist Digital Artist

Ugh that is a long time for trial and error . You did great though

Sabine62 Featured By Owner Feb 24, 2015

Undead-Academy Featured By Owner Feb 25, 2015 Hobbyist Digital Artist

Sabine62 Featured By Owner Feb 25, 2015

LOL

piethein21 Featured By Owner Feb 23, 2015 Hobbyist Digital Artist

tof dat je monte carlo kan doen

het sampled meer punten uit de plek waar ze veel komen. Ik gok dus dat sommige delen goed smooth worden, maar op plekken waar ze niet vaak komen dit niet gebeurd. Kan je ook een soort anti monte carlo doen? Ik heb verder geen verstand van renderen xD (monte carlo tussen neus en lippen door op studie gehad).

Sabine62 Featured By Owner Feb 23, 2015

MC 'kunnen' is niet mijn verdienste

Is ingebouwd in MB3D, dus een kwestie van settings laden en op Render klikken ;} Helaas mis ik de theorie over MC en online is daar ook niet veel te vinden behalve dat het erg ruisgevoelig is... tja

Daar helpt jouw verhaal over dat samplen al weer wat. Die anti-monte carlo zou wel erg cool zijn. Ken jij een goed onderlegde programmeur?