SabereCommander on DeviantArthttps://www.deviantart.com/saberecommander/art/Asriel-and-Chara-are-weaker-than-you-think-658627486SabereCommander

Deviation Actions

SabereCommander's avatar

Asriel and Chara are weaker than you think!

Published:
701 Views

Description

Ah Undertale, I'm back at it again with another Undertale theory-erm hypothesis?-and you already know the subject of today's topic. How powerful are Asriel and Chara at the height of their power, Pacifist and Genocide time lines? Well that's a really tricky one to answer and I don't have a precise answer my self. There's not really anything we can compare their feats to in real life. I can-however-put a general ball park on where we can guess their power levels to be, in comparison to us or fictional universes.

Let's start with the first in the title, Asriel Dreamurr. His best feats are reality warping and destroying the world, which is all pretty impressive when you think about how the most powerful invention humans have isn't even comparable to a black hole. Now here is the problem, people are assuming most of this and filling in the gaps with logic-which is normally good but when analyzing some one's feats we just can't do that. Asriel was going to destroy the world so he could play with us-he still thought we were Chara during this time frame, remember?-but he never actually beat us. We outlasted him in the fight and he collapsed because he lost the will to fight us. That covers world destroying but what about reality warping?

He didn't reality warp, at least not the "real" reality in the game. The most he ever did was warp the battle menu and-as we've seen from Sans and Asgore-you don't need to be uber powerful to do that. While his level of manipulation was clearly above theirs, it doesn't change the fact that moderately powerful monsters could still do it-without the aid of determination. You might even be able to make the argument that he absorbed the ability from those two which might be the reason for his ability to do so to the extreme. As for Determination and saves, we know they're only effected by determination and not power-so this doesn't attribute anything to it as we've seen that you simply need to have a high enough determination level to access them. So we have covered Asriel, which only lives his adopted sibling-Chara Dreamurr.

While we can argue about Chara's origins all day long-there is no doubt that by the end of a Genocide/No Mercy time line they have the ability to destroy the world-for real this time. Unlike the battle with Asriel, we really can do nothing without them controlling which certainly adds to how much more powerful a "evil" soul is over a bunch of good souls. This is where it gets tricky and I've gotten into battles with fellow Undertale fans about. I'm going to cut this paragraph shot, prematurely, so that I have a fresh one to analyze and discuss Chara's "world destroying" abilities...

At the end of the Genocide/No Mercy time line Chara has absorbed enough power from us and the dead monsters to destroy the world. In doing so, they (From now forth referred to as her.) become aware that the world they once knew to be true is a video game. This can be seen when she directly talks to the player during the ending cut scene for a genocide time line. Now that we have no doubt that Chara understands her world is nothing more than a game-even going so far as corrupting the save and load files after a Genocide/No Mercy playthrough-we are 100% certain that Undertale's world is a game... wait what?-Not in the way you're thinking friend. You see, books and video games and movies are all "conduits" and allow us a to peer into their worlds and-in the case of games-interact with them. Now I'm making no sense, why was the fact that Undertale is a game have anything to do with the in-universe stuff? Hold on I'm getting there.

You see, Undertale is a very peculiar case and is in a category of fiction that rarely occurs, for now we'll call it "partial self-aware" fiction. The game goes to a certain degree of "meta" in which it realizes it is a game-sort of. Since we don't have the technological capacity for these works of fiction to break the fourth wall and literally interact with us, it's all scripted... this is all getting confusing huh? I'm not making much sense huh? Well I'll try to clear up what I'm saying. Since the cannon of Undertale-anything that happens in game-acknowledges that it its self is a game then that's what that world is. It's a game about a video game and not a game about a fictional story...

You see, when Toby Fox added in that portion with Save and Load mechanics being cannon to the story he doomed the world it was set in. Most games are about fictional events and settings-which is something Undertale still follows but it is much closer to Deadpool than other games. The in-universe explanation for the world is that it is a game and there is the fatal flaw of how powerful the Undertale characters are...

If you have ever tried to program a game-I made a few prototypes using Game Maker and its drag and drop features-then you know that if the code for that thing doesn't exist then it's not there to use or call upon. You can't use a line of code or environment that doesn't exist in the game's files. Using this, we can now properly identify just how large Undertale really is. Every single playable area, whether it be free roaming, battle screens, or conversation boxes, is an actual area in the Undertale world. That area beyond the horizon at the end though? It doesn't exist because there is no area there in the game's files. Anything in the files exists and is a part of Undertale's world but if it is NOT in the files then it is not a part of the world.

So by comparison, they don't have a full world Earth like us. They only have those glimpses of "the surface" and there is nothing beyond that. There is no territory in the files that connects the beach Undyne and Alphys were at in the end-credits with the highway that Papyrus and Sans are driving on. We just make the assumption because that's how the real world works-but we need to stop making the assumption because Undertale is not a copy of a real world, it's a copy of a game, more specifically the structure. Of course, this can all be simplified into one sentence:

The cannon for Undertale is that their world is a game and since their world is a game, if we don't see the location in the files then it's not in the game.

Now that that long portion of proving how small Undertale's world really is is over, we can continue with another part. It should be common knowledge to anyone with access to this site that-the bigger something is, the more energy is takes to power it and keep it functioning.  You take less energy than a star to live but you certainly take more energy than an ant needs. More energy goes into sustaining you than a dog because A you live longer and B you're larger than one. Since we understand just how incredibly small the Undertale world is then we can compare it to our world in size. Try to imagine everywhere in our world-you can't because you don't have the processing capability to, that's how large it is. Then there is the universe that surrounds our world, which is infinitely larger than Earth which is infinitely larger the Undertale's world...

Now there is an argument that can be made on behalf of Undertale's power but it's pretty weak. One could claim that: "If the area is that much smaller than ours than all of that energy has to be put somewhere, so it would only make sense that the characters-since they take up a larger portion of their world-would be more powerful than us." The only problem with claiming this is that this rule would have to apply to ALL fiction and not just that world. While it may fit with certain titles that have been shown to have a smaller universe than ours, like Dragon Ball Z, it falls short when you consider things like DC and Marvel. Superman has infinite strength, he literally lifted infinity, and that would require more energy than Omega(1 Infinity) on the Alec scale. Since infinity is never ending in our universe than we don't have infinite power, so equal power but unequal density would be impossible.

Anyways, this has got to be my longest one yet. What do you think? Good? Bad? Needs some work? Tell me in the comments!
Image size
460x215px 4.88 KB
© 2017 - 2024 SabereCommander
Comments4
Join the community to add your comment. Already a deviant? Log In
" His best feats are reality warping" - When?

" Asriel was going to destroy the world so he could play with us" - Yes, and he could have, but he was toying around with us and going easy. For example, when he goes all 'Angel of Death' and says 'Behold my true power!' the attacks he fires are significantly slower and less lethal than the instakill spam that far-weaker Omega Flowey unleashed on us. He wasn't taking it seriously. As far as he was concerned, he'd already won. He had literally infinite attack, if he wanted to smash the world he could've.

"The most he ever did was warp the battle menu" - When? When blocking you from doing anything but Struggle? ... or wait, no, you're talking about when he blows away every button except SAVE, right? I think that's more symbolic than anything, like Asgore destroying the Mercy button.

") become aware that the world they once knew to be true is a video game." - Debatable. I can see nothing in Chara's dialogue that indicates she literally knows Undertale is a game. She refers to the 'move on to other worlds' meaning other games to play, but it's not confirmed that's how Chara views it. Else, why would she say 'worlds' and not 'games'?

"You see, when Toby Fox added in that portion... and there is the fatal flaw of how powerful the Undertale characters are..." - Is this getting to a point sometime soon?

"The cannon for Undertale is that their world is a game and since their world is a game" - Iiiiiincorrect. LITERALLY the only lines in the entire game that ever indicates this are Flowey going "Don't you get it? This is all just a game!" and Narrator-Chara saying "Seems Saving the Game really is impossible... but maybe you can save something else." For Flowey, it's abundantly clear after his genocide-speech that he doesn't literally know it's a game, he just sees it that way after being stuck in Soulless Groundhog Day for possibly centuries. For Chara... she just heard Flowey's speech about this all being a game. That's it. There's... nothing else. Not a thing.

Here's the problem with your logic: Chara saying to go to other worlds. Chara is surprised when we want to go back to Undertale, and makes you sell your soul to get it back. But then what are those 'other worlds'? I've mentioned previously, they're other games to grind through. Toby can't actually implement Chara going to other games for obvious reasons, but Storywise once you complete genocide, even if you don't sell your soul Chara will follow you forever.

So by your logic, EVERY other video game, possibly even every other game period like D&D campaigns, is canonically just a game. From here it all falls apart. What, are you saying that because Deadpool breaks the 4th wall in his comics, that Deadpool - and other characters with him - is really just a bunch of flat ink? Yeah, alright, try arguing that on Deadpool Vs. pages.

You have to take fictional universes as just that, universes. Unless it's clearly and unambiguously stated that it really is just a game - like say, how powerful Wreck It Ralph characters would be - then you treat them as real. And while Undertale certainly does suggest it at times, it's never stated unambiguously.