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Sonic dissected prt. 4

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By Rogerregorroger   |   
© 2012 - 2020 Rogerregorroger
Part 1: [link]

Part 2: [link]

Part 3: [link]

Part 4: [link]

Part 5: [link]

Part 6: [link]

Part 7: [link]

Part 8: [link]

Part 9: [link]

Part 10: [link]

Part 11-1: [link]

Part 11-2: [link]

part 11-3: [link]

Part 11-4-1: [link]

Part 11-4-2: [link]

Part 11-5-1: [link]

Part 11-5-2: [link]

Part 12: [link]

Lost world special:[link]

Part 13-1: [link]

Part 13-2: [link]

And boom, a new Sonic dissected. Already had this chapter mostly finished before finishing Kingdumb Hearts.

I have to finish Dissected 5 soon since it's it's twin brother. Unfortunatly I don't expect to have it done untill atl east Monday.Then I make probably 2 more chapters before resuming my regular animation work.

Thanks to Luke for helping out and Sega for the source material.
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anonymous's avatar
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AggressiveBagel's avatar
AggressiveBagelStudent General Artist
Part-TimeArtist's avatar
Part-TimeArtistHobbyist Traditional Artist
You give a good point, especially in The Black Knight and Sonic Colors!
StardustLuna's avatar
Even sonic aside, I think this is a great series for a bit of intro on storytelling and plot structure.

With sonic, this is both interesting, and hilarious.
mathieutrudelle's avatar
well i saw the 4 first part, interresting (sorry i not very good in english ^^;). first let me tell you i'm a sonic fan, i plaid almost all sonic game and like them all. i'm not 100% agree with you but i respect your oppinion. ok the sonic story are not always clear but i fond them good ( even sonic 06 and shadow the hedgehog i don't know why evrebody hate me when i said that) anyway nice crittique even if i'm not totttaly agree with you:)
hopeisnotdead's avatar
hopeisnotdeadHobbyist General Artist
I felt like hating you when you talked about hating a game and you showed us StH. I was relieved a bit when you showed us Sonic Unleashed, though I did like that game a bit.
Rogerregorroger's avatar
RogerregorrogerHobbyist Filmographer
I'll talk about Shadow's game in teh future.
Not going to be all that negative, just very...alternative.
hopeisnotdead's avatar
hopeisnotdeadHobbyist General Artist
Oh, okay. But I thought the game was nice. Can't wait to see what insight you provide on that game.:D !
sonic128128's avatar
I absolutely love this series! :D You guys do such a great job analyzing the series!
Rogerregorroger's avatar
RogerregorrogerHobbyist Filmographer
MetalHeadFan2500's avatar
4 days till a whole month of this video is released, is the next video going to be released soon
Rogerregorroger's avatar
RogerregorrogerHobbyist Filmographer
Afraid not, my current priority is finishing IMP for halloween which I doubt I'll make.
someguy1294's avatar
YAY! More dissection! Awesome as always, man.
NeonNix's avatar
NeonNixStudent General Artist
i cant reall hear you in this :'(
Rogerregorroger's avatar
RogerregorrogerHobbyist Filmographer
No? How come?
The accent? Talking to fast? Volume What about Luke?
NeonNix's avatar
NeonNixStudent General Artist
ohh, never mind. I couldnt hear the video, until it finished and i noticed a bloody pop up had being playing music really loud *embarrassed*
Dracold's avatar
DracoldHobbyist General Artist
Technically, Eggman is Shadow's lackey. He just did not know it. And that is why Shadow was so awesome. He manipulated Eggman and even Rouge to get what he wanted. But it really was subtle. Because you did not know it until the very end.

I liked Shadow the Hedgehog the game. But sadly, it was not designed around the story, it was designed around the choice. You were supposed to choose what to do. If you hate Shadow because of this game, you hate yourself, since you are the one who decides what to do, not him. This is not a normal linear story. Shadow was doing something he otherwise would never do. Because of that, nothing what happened in the game canonically happened except for the ending. I think that the ending was awesome. But since the game had only that one awesome part, it is just not enough. It even decreased the value of the awesomeness, since it was all told too quickly.
If the story is not linear but some kind of oriented graph, it is insanely hard to create content of the same quality like in normal linear story.
They intended to do that for some time, they even intended to make that choice kind of gameplay for SA2. Luckily they did not. Too bad that since Shadow the Hedgehog game had no story content you could relate to what really happened and when, people just got the wrong idea who Shadow was... and who Shadow is.
The game designers intentionally made him out of character so you could just blow things up for the sake of fun. That is what people never got. And that is why I think it is sad that he has been promoted like that. You cannot tell what he is like from that game. You are just being biased on what is in the game and how it looks and you substitute him for some kind of overly cliché anti-hero he is NOT. He is an anti-hero, but not that kind people think, not generic at all. People are being too simplistic. Too shallow.
Just like my friend once said - "just look at the cover"! That is the kind of shallow reasoning what you pointed out. It is decided on what is in it, not how it is in it. If you want a game with choices AND story, it will never work, unless it is RPG with blank character and the story is not about your character but rather about your environment.
Rogerregorroger's avatar
RogerregorrogerHobbyist Filmographer
Yeah, I know Eggman ends up being the lackey.
Still doesn't change the fact he's the main antagonist of the first chunks of the game.
And as soon as Eggman knows he's been had, he immediatly switches sides and AGAIN takes charge.
He's always the active authority.

I like Shadow's game too.
Tough for me, it's mostly because I look at it like a B-Action movie. It's just fun.

And well, you don't really have THAT much choice in Shadow tough.
Reminds me of the Great Clements playtrough. As a Dr. Eggman fan he wants to join the good doctor, but no matter what you do, Shadow always ends up fighting Eggman. At least he never becomes his partner again, in the endings that is.

As for him as a person, Shadow was actually a nice guy in Sonic adventure 2. As soon as Amy clears his mind, he reverts back to his pre- Maria dies tragically behaviour and even mentions to Sonic he thinks Sonic is probably the better hedgehog during the final boss.

But then Sonic heroes came along and took everyone's brain and Shadow became a 1 note psychopath together with poor Amy, Knuckles and Eggman.
Fortunatly Sonic 2006 finally fixed him up.

As for the gameplay in Shadow the hedgehog, it baffles me why everyone's upset and angry.
Everyone knew in advance the game had guns and violence and stuff. It's in all the trailers and the cover. Yet people play it and then complain it contains teh stuff it advertised what was in it. Wot?
It's like buying Mario kart and then complaining there's no platform levels, only racing in it.

Yeah, some missions sucked and a couple levels were glitchy. Sonic adventure 1 and 2 had the same problems. Guess Shadow just didn't have the charm to make people forgive.
Dracold's avatar
DracoldHobbyist General Artist
Yeah, I said that he was technically lackey. I am technical person and I can seem to stop correcting people. I agree with your view at doctor.

Yes, you didn't have much choices... but still you had plenty. The only game when you can have any choice you like is probably only Dungeons and Dragons or something like that. Being able to develop bazilion possible scenarios means to keep developing the content for bazilion of manhours. And just to be clear - I would like much much better if Shadow the Hedgehog had a normal linear story with turns and twists. I am just saying that it is not completely off the table.

And I think that Shadow turned psycho only in dark levels... because he just had to, or they would not be dark levels after all. In Sonic Heroes, he did not do anything psychopathic. Maybe some of his cocky lines, but the same were in SA2 and they were no worse than Sonic's.
He even let Sonic to take out his adversary himself (kind of) and he offered to stay back to buy him some time. Even despite he forgot about him. I just think that Shadow was always a nice person. I don't see any counter examples, except for the dark levels.

You are pretty brave saying that Sonic 2006 fixed something. You really are :D I agree. But then again, Sega though - well, this game was complete failure - let's make it COMPLETELY different next time. They did not realize that it was complete failure only because of insane technical difficulties, and maybe level design (which is also kind of a technical error).
OK, time traveling, they could have spared that. At least limit that to minimum. Like I have heard in some Sonic fan video - "chaos emeralds, they are becoming more and more convenient each time we use them".

But no, they have to change everything from the ground up. And what drives me crazy the most - it works, seemingly. We are like few singularities.
Rogerregorroger's avatar
RogerregorrogerHobbyist Filmographer
"And I think that Shadow turned psycho only in dark levels..."

Nah, he has more awkward moments. One of my FAVORITE Shadow moments comes in the opening. Shadow stands in a field, watches aliens randomly fall down out of the sky and destroy a city and Shadow's reaction?
"Pathetic humans"
I find that so hilarious, it's the funniest thing ever. Aliens randomly spawn out of nowhere. Is Shadow shocked by this random event? Is he amazed that other life forms exist in the universe?
No, he is just annoyed humans haven't dealt with the entire alien invasion in 20 seconds after it randomly spawned out of nowhere.
It's like a T-rex randomly materializes in front of him and all Shadow does is just point and laugh at the ants the T-rex crushed by accident. I love Shadow's game.

"In Sonic Heroes, he did not do anything psychopathic."

Correction. EVERY character acts like a psychopath in Sonic heroes. Just look at the cutscene of team Sonic and Team dark meeting for the first time:

Shadow: It's the blue hedgehog with whom I became friends with last time!
Sonic: Shadow! You're still alive!
And then the start punching each other. What?

I hate people's tendecies to consider something that's bad immediatly 100% bad.
Evil dictators also have mothers and like puppies.
Doesn't make em nice people.
So yeah, Sonic 2006 did a lot of good things.
I don't hate the game. In fact, playing the game makes me sad, there's a fantastic game hidden underneath all the problems.
It's like a burnt delicious pizza.
Dracold's avatar
DracoldHobbyist General Artist
Well, you must understand that Shadow has lost all memories. How was he supposed to know, who humans are, who aliens are, how he was supposed to know that aliens do not belong here, humans do, that aliens are evil, humans are... not evil. If I lost all memories and discovered that I was immortal superstrong superfast superhero, I don't know why I should suppose that the others are not. He forgot mostly everything and that includes the knowledge of how the world works. After all, he has spent his time with team dark and other teams of Superheros. He could get a feeling, that the others can also handle the situation on their own. Since his teammates always acted as individual and strong persons.
I would not call it psychopathic behavior. That would imply, that natural and normal behavior is "nice hero guy who helps everyone he meets". And that cannot be the case, because it presumes certain level of knowledge. I would call it just inexperienced behavior. Being part of a society means to have experience in interaction with others. And Shadow is character strong and clever enough to get it in the end, despite he is less then one year old mentally. I think that EVERYONE in his place (memory loss and inexperience, powerful abilities) would either choose to be selfish and took what he wanted or run away, hide and wait what will happen next and try to adapt.

In Sonic Heroes, when they first met with Sonic, Shadow did not remember that he had met Sonic before, he only pointed out that they look similar. And Sonic did say something weird, but not implying directly that he knows Shadow. Yes, Shadow wonders if they had met during the fight I think. However, in that game, Rouge is the leader (more or less). Rouge is kind of selfish and when she decides to fight to clear the trouble from her way, they just fight.
Anyway, it is kind of pointless to point out if that is normal behavior or not, since this is exactly the case where the story was shaped (or crushed) beneath the game-play. That's why all other characters act strange. The story and dialogs is just a filler. I can imagine that all the gameplay could still happen in more complex story and would be exactly the same, but the writers are not paid enough for that. If this game had writers at all...
See [link] if you want to understand, why computer games are used to have poor stories.
Rogerregorroger's avatar
RogerregorrogerHobbyist Filmographer
I can use your own argument against you.
If he doens't remember what aliens or humans are, then why does he keep going " Humans are pathetic."
And even if he does have vague memories of humans doing bad things to him in the past, it's still silly how humans randomly getting attacked out of their control or understanding by aliens makes them pathetic.

It's like if I hate children, and watch footage of Iraq where school children are taken hostage by terrorists. I don't know these kids, how often this stuff happens in Iraq, but I'd hardly scoff at the kids for being so pathetic to have been taking hostage.

As for Heroes, all Shadow says about Sonic is "Hey, it's THAT hedgehog."
Beats me where he met Sonic before during Sonic heroes, so he must be vaguely remembering him.

Yes, I know the characters fight for stupid reasons because Sega only had budget for 30 seconds of video and the game was shaped around cheap boss fights. Still, me you can make up better reasons for them to be fighting without to much effort.
Now they're litteraly fighting because both want to defeat Eggman? And Rouge is scared Sonic wants to take her treasure? Why does she think Sonic cares about treasure? Heck, why is she convinced Eggman has treasure?

I guess it's possible she'd think Knuckles would take her treasure. That could work. But that's not how the cutscene is played out.

Anyway, if I had to write that sequence..
A) Knuckles sees Omega, and punches it, thinking it's an Eggman robot.
B) Rouge sees that and goes "It's that treasure hunter! I bet he wants my treasure!" and hits Knuckles back.
C) Shadow doesn't remember who these guys are and considers them enemies and starts helping his team mates.
D) Knuckles being hot headed goes berserk and shouts at Sonic and tails that Rouge and Shadow probably joined forces with Eggman again.
E) Sonic and Tails are confused and try to talk, but nobody reacts anymore. "They're not listening. Guess we just have to cool them off".

There we go.

Watched the video. Interesting stuff yeah. Better watch more of them before I'm repeating the same stuff too much.
Dracold's avatar
DracoldHobbyist General Artist
You can't "use my logic against me", when you misunderstood it. If all he knows is that if you are being threatened on life than you should fight back (as he and all he knows always had been doing), than he will naturally think that poor humans escaping helplessly from their doom are pathetic. Also their resistance meets much less success than he think is possible.
He is not scoffing. He is obviously not straightforward happy or cheered to see them like that, it is just that he sees them as nothing he should care about. And even if that kind of thinking is not standard, it is not straight psychopathic. What is the standard way of thinking about somebody unknown, who has no relation to you and can be as well your enemy. Also you must consider that in troubled lives of Sonic characters, where the conflict is everlasting, destruction of a city is in the real world more like missing a bus rather then taking hostage of children in Iraq. If the very thinking that humanity's effort to stop the unexpected threat being futile is sign of being psychopath, than it probably means that many many people I am forced to deal with every day are all psychopaths.
Or, maybe he is psychopath and always has been. But that means that it is still just harmless state of mind since he always decides to do the right thing. At least from my angle of view. My psychopathic angle of view, MUHAHAHAHA! Haaaaa...
HelderPoeta's avatar
L: Oh boohoh, Shadow wasn't on screen for 3 seconds because that bitch Amy dared to exist.

That would be a great line, why did you take it out?
Rogerregorroger's avatar
RogerregorrogerHobbyist Filmographer
Not sure, I think it's because Lule said the line a little too violent for my taste and the pacing of the list was too slow.
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