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[OTS] Korryn Shiks Matriarchy, system #139 (DRAFT)

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Korryn Shiks Matriarchy [DRAFT]

Ksm Logo by Riveda1972

Previous draft, corrected by the Maester Shabazik -> read here: fav.me/dd6dm8f

The KSM is meant as a minor nation in the Nebulosa of Ots science fiction setting by Shabazik. It's located in the star system #139. After a few useful discussions we've agreed to set this nation over 2 planets out of a 17 habitable planets system.
The planets have been named Korryn I and Korryn II, meant a a little tribute to House Corrin, the ruling imperial House at the beginnings of the Dune saga by Frank Herbert.



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THE HISTORY: ORIGINS OF THE KSM (Revised)
The foundation of the Korryn Shiks Matriarchy is a legacy of the so called Rebellion of Clones wars (3428-3434 a.a.H.).
During the final phases of the uprising, a faction of the rebel clones accepted to sign a non belligerance deal with Kasparov CIA, who quickly and gladly accepted due the worries about and RFB uncontrolled expansion in the southern area of the nebula.

The reasons for this odd deal accepted by Kasparov CIA are, above all, in the military forces still controlled by KSM's founders. While they hadn't been strong enough to seriously threaten the mega corporations, they were strong enough to cause severe damages and losses if they had continued the war, before being definitively defeated.

Both parts accepted a kind of status quo: the rebels realized they hadn't any realistic chance to successfully continue the uprising, but obtained to keep themselves (almost) independent; while Kasparov CIA granted to close a battlefront without further losses and (thought to have) gained a kind of protectorate upon a toy-nation which promised to no more support clones rebellions and (most important) to flank Kasparov CIA in case of military operations against a predicted invasion from RFB.

In order to not alarm the other powers, still stuck in fighting and suppressing the other rebel clones, KSM's founders accepted to mimic as a corporation subordinated to Kasparov CIA's control, as a held company. Actually it was part of the deal that KSM would have been much more independent than a banal controlled company, and it started infact building a secret form of government while keeping the public appeareance of a sub-company under the big umbrella provided by Kasparov CIA.

Their main lucky break occurred whitin the chaotic final phases of the rebellion itself, while the rebel group managed in capturing a damaged, but still working, Ark Ship and hiding it inside the orbit of an orphan extrastellar planet, wandering in the dark of deep space near the borders between RFB and the Pross Zone. They kept the captured Ark Ship, with its hundreds of thousands cryo-sleeping clones, hidden on that dark, frozen rockball lost in the deep space for three years, persuading long range sensors that the ship was effectively lost.

The KSM was initially named as "Kasparov Settlement Multipurpose Industries" and for years the acronym hadn't any other meaning.

During the short period of "peace" between the Rebellion of Clone and the Goelathian Wars, KSM strenghtened itself, mostly working effectively as a Kasparov CIA sub-corporation, devoted to planetary exploration, and operating in first terraforming attempts on new planets of the region.
The secret deal with Kasparov CIA granted them the chance to directly colonize up to two planets, inside the same star system, and that chance was accomplished when KSM put hands on the planet we nowadays know as Korryn II (or Winter Korryn).
It was, as today, a cold planet but it seemed a good choice in order to hide there the main activities of the group, without getting unwanted attentions by third parties.
It was around the year 3438 a.a.H. that KSM acronym gained its new meaning. It's told that the name "Korryn" was chosen for the planet just to keep the same starting letter of the company acronym. It just sounded good to founders and that was all.

Equally sharing profits between themselves and Kasparov CIA, KSM strenghtened themselves. And they secretly used the meantime to both study and "crack" the AMCCs aboard the captured Ark Ship (in particular, hacking the mind conditioning programs), and also recruiting survivors and veterans of the rebellion: some of them were still hidden to escape the repression, some other initially surrendered to megacorporations and national powers armies but were later persuaded to join the KSM with the promise of relevant roles into an effectively independent organization controlled by shiks and not by biological humans.

They had barely started the building of an industrial colony on Korryn II (later known as Winter Korryn) and settled the first outposts on Korryn I (later known as "Korryn" only, as the "capitol" of their nation), when the Goelathian Wars started, and incidentally the star System #139, where they had to settle, was one of the first targets of the invaders.

They quickly evacuated the few outposts on Korryn I, closed the surface gates on Korryn II and refuged underground to not attire invaders' attentions and resisting their first strike bombings. But immediately after the first strikes from the Coalition, KSM kept faith to the treaty with Kasparov CIA, supporting it both in the humanitaria rescue operations and in the military ones. The "KSM Military division" was appearently constituted in year 3444 a.a.H., formally as a mercenary force subordinated to Kasparov CIA's command, but actually the act of constitution was just the chance to formalize what already existed and was, infact, the KSM's army and military fleet.

Most of actions and operations of the KSM military Division during the Goealathian Wars are unknown, both because they formally acted as a Kasparov CIA subordinated force, and because they were mostly used for black ops and beyond-enemy-lines operations, including sabotages, harassing and hurting supply lines and plants of the Coalition, boarding and capturing coalition's supply convoys, and so on.
Also in this case KSM strictly obeyed the terms of their deals with Kasparov CIA, persuading them they had a loyal and valid ally, even if they were actually independent.

In the final phases of the Goealathian Wars KSM forces were used mainly for peace keeping and pacification purposes and it has been in this phase they captured a lot of enemy weapons and personnel.
And while they continued their politics to equally share the loots with their "controlling" corporation, they instead kept the control over any "human loot" they managed to put the hands on, no matter if biological or artificial humans.

Accidentally the peace-keeping operations were also the chance to recruit further followers from other organizations. Such of "recruiting" activities were acted both with persuasion and by force. "Recruited" people were secretly trasferred inside the deep underground settlements on Korryn II where they were (depending on cases) converted, rieducated or just forced to work.

Anyway, at the end of the war, the fear about an unwanted massive RFB expansion in the Devart sector, persuaded Kasparov CIA and other "friendly" nations and corporations to enforce their control on borderline star systems, including the Star System #139. What was initially just a first exploration permission on Korryn I, was finally acknowledged as a formal control on the planet.

And thanks the loyalty shown during the war, KSM also gained its most important commission. The "KSM Spacecraft Recover & Refit Division" was founded as a new branch of the "company", and was charged to recover the huge amount of damaged or destroyed ships and wreckages along the battlefronts in the region, in order to repair and refit them when possible, or to demolish and recycle materials when needed.

In a few years (this time with relevant investments from Kasparov CIA itself) a lot of underground and orbital spacecraft industries were built, and KSM repaid back those investments granting Kasparov CIA huge profits from refitting and reselling recovered ships, while a lot of materials (both resources and reuseable components) were instead used to strengten KSM settlements on both Korryn II and Korryn I.

Korryn I, due to its comfortable gravity ratio (0.95g) and its nice tropical climate was appearently elected as "capitol" planet, hosting a representative seat of the KSM consortium, and received a special status as "duty-free" planet, massively encouraging its attractive for both tourism and residential settlements.
The KSM Immigration Bureau was founded in 3448 a.a.H., under a multilateral treaty involving also the LCP, Norodor Empire and EUS as observers and as privileged colonizers.
The treaty granted Korryn the status of pre-colony, which meant they would have up to 50 years to grow in population before they can be acknowledged as a real colony and choose by vote which nation to join or to keep themself as a new independent nation.
50 years just seemed a nice long term perspective to Kasparov CIA which whould have in the meantime the chance (and the KSM's support) in reinforcing their presence in this sector and also in supporting the reconstruction on the other planets damaged during the Goelathian Wars (Kanyikia, Laqvia, Zur Space Dominion).

The most important (but not declared) task for the KSM Immigration Bureau was of course to limit the immigration from RFB and EAN, in order to prevent the two nations to gain a new controlled nation at the end. But in order to avoid teneses with both RFB and EAN, they were granted to earn a minor percentage of the profits incoming from the touristic and industrial activities.

While consolidating their status, the "company" changed its name in "Korryn Settlement Multipurpose Industries" but kept a clear reference to Kasparov CIA in their own company logo. While the secret government finally assumed the name of "Korryn Shiks Matriarchy", whose flag was the same company logo.
And now that "peace" granted better and more comfortable conditions they also started transferring the just awakened clones from the hidden Ark Ship to Korryn II, finally demolishing the ship itself to definitely cancel any residual tracks of the captured ship.

It's important to notice that this way KSM kept the main and strategic functions on the appearently secondary planet, Winter Korryn (Korryn II), while the formally capitol planet, Korryn I, is used mostly as a representative planet, formally hosting the KSM industries CEO and administrative council.
The ratio of this "unpopular" choice to use the harder and less hospital Korryn II as real backbone is in the same reasons that make it a hard world to habit: hard climate, and a gravity a bit harder than normal (1.15g) are considered by KSM's leaders the perfect environment where to grow and train Shiks with more strenght and endurance.

The particular "duty free" status granted on the planet has sproud its attractive, encouraging tourism and the building of luxury residences and housings, attracting on the planet rich managers, diplomats and so on, and making it a perfect theater for espionage activities.
All KSM shiks actually in service onground Korryn I are appearently no more than common civilian Shiks, dressing their standard grey ZTP uniforms (or other civilian dresses when requested) and appearently subordinated to biological human directors, or even serving as maitresses, house maids, and so on, inside the luxury residences, but they're infact higly trained spies under the direct command of KSM Security Service (which of course is not an acknowledged commercial division but an operative section of the Matriarchy).


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THE PLANETS: KORRYN (Korryn I)

Korryn1 by Riveda1972

It's a nice tropical world, with two main continents and hundreds of smaller archipelagos, with almost 70% of its surface covered by warm oceans and just small polar caps. It also have a comfortable gravity, a little softer than normal (0,95g) which makes it ideal for relaxing holydays. The planet orbit is almost circular and not too bent on the ellittic plan, that means stable seasons and a comfortable climate for almost all the year. Anyway all planetary settlements and luxury residences are well fitted and equipped to resist the eventual typhoons sometimes spreading.
Altough both Korryn I and Korryn II have their own hydroponic plants to feed people, on Korryn I are present also massive farming activities where exotic fruits are farmed and harvested both for local market and for exportation toward the other planets of the system.
Korryn I also has native lifeforms, above all a large variety of plants and trees, but also some animals. Not so evolved, but they have native fishes and brids, and also some creatures similar to amphibian reptiles. despite the efforts of KSM administration, most of these native lifeforms are currently menaced by the importing of extra system lifeforms.
Korryn City, founded on the main continent, actually hosts the representative seat of the Korryn Settlements Multipurpose Industries, the foreign embassies, the spaceport and the very luxurious CEO'S residence; Most of touristic, commercial, legalized gambling activities are concentrated in the city downtown, while residences for colonization are normally built along the peripheral belt of the city. Extraluxury residences, instead, are normally built on the smaller islands.

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THE PLANETS: WINTER KORRYN (Korryn II)

Korryn2 by Riveda1972

Seen from space it looks like a glacial world, and actually it is. Only around a thin belt on the equatorial latitudes it shows a temperate-cold climate. It's similar to Korryn I about dimensions, but has more mass due to relevant metallic composition of the inner part, which provides a harder gravity (1.15g) but also interesting and convenient mining resources useful for both settlements and spacecraft engineering industries. Most of the settlement are dug underground, where they can use the inner planet heat to grant habitable conditions, and they also use underground as a valid protection. Under the first strike attacks from the Coalition during the Goelathian Wars, KSM people resisted the bombings that way.
Even if most of the population actually lives in the underground they have to spend periodic services on the surfaces, which is intentionally meant as an additional form of training and improving the personnel's endurance.
Only real trusted "citizens" of the Matriarchy can live on Korryn II, that's not opened to tourism or immigration, and even Kasparov CIA's inspectors are rarely admitted in the most strategic settlements, in particular the AMCC Cloning factories and research laboratories aretotally  off limits for any foreign people (actually it has happened, sometimes, that some inspectors accidentally "disappeared", which recently raised some attentions inside Kasparov CIA about KSM's activities).
Korryn II has only primitive native lifeforms, mostly algae, bacteria and some primitive forms of fishes.
It has 2 military orbiting stations, meant to protect the spacecraft building docks, but additional industrial plants are build also under the surface, and the energy generators providing power supply are underground as well. Korryn II host the real government, called The Directorate, which is the real decisional organization of the Matriarchy.

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THE KSM GOVERNMENT
What's crucial in the final period of the Rebellion is that KSM's founders argued one of the reasons why the rebellion wars had failed in their main targets, and even had most of the artificial humans fighting against the rebellion itself. Differently than what occurred with other "Shiks republics", the rebel leading group (mostly formed by Dreselandesas, but also by a large group of Regults and even some Jakos) argued it was a mistake to reproduce the same caste based system they had rebelled against.
They argued this was one, if not the most relevant, of the reasons why so many Shiks hadn't rebelled and had, instead, even supported the megacorporations actions in order to suppress the rebellion. They also realized that the bad example given by most of dreselandesas had been a severe obstacle in persuading "standard clones" to join the uprising.
They saw in this the main fault of the other leading Dreselandesas and choosed to do ratherway. Including their researches about cloning and mind conditioning issues on long terms plans.

While appearently the Administrative Coincil of the KSM Industries corporation takes decisions, they actually just vidimate decisions taken by the Directorate. Under a political point of view, KSM is a military republic, where elective rights (both active and passive) are reserved to women and based on the military career.

Both females and males earn the right to vote for minor local councils after at least 5 years of military service and a rank of mjr corporal, but the right to vote and being elected for superior councils are more strictly limited:
Only shiks with a minimum rank of Lieutenant can vote for the Legislative Assembly, while a rank of sr Lieutenant is needed to be elected in local organs; the Captain rank is needed to be elected in the Legislative assembly or to be charged as magistrate/inquisitor; Colonel rank is needed to be elected in the Directorate.

Males can only vote for minor representations in local administrations and workers organizations, as their careers are limited at a maximum rank of sr Sergeant and are not allowed to serve in any permanent military corps but the civil police (where they still serve under female officers anyway).

The Legislative Assembly is elected every 5 years, and it elects the Directorate as well for the same period.
The Legislative Assembly also charges the magistrates, while the Directorate charges the Inquisitors (usually chosen form the ranks of the Security Service).

Directorate is usually composed by 6 members with voting right ad executive power, one of them elected as Speaker (actually chief of both state and military forces) for 5 years. A Speaker can be dismissed only by unanime vote of the rest of the Directorate, or by a 2/3 majority of the Legislative Assembly, and has the power to charge up to 4 other Directors (but these without voting power).

Even if it's not explicitly mentioned, the Military High Command, by controlling the shiks' careers has a lot of power over the KSM politics and the final conformation of both the legislative assembly and the executive power; while at the same time the Speaker of Directorate, as chief commander of military forces, has the power to charge and dismiss the members of the High Command.

Technicians, Scientists, Engineers, Administratives and other strategic "civilian" roles are under military control as well, even if the personnel doesn't practice any operative military activity, other than the periodical recalls to arms (3 months of service a year), obbligarory for any woman from the age of 18 up to the age of 50. Anyway these "civilian" roles are charged by military commands.

The KSM founders decided to set the form of government system as more democratic as possible, not setting any explicit and preventive deny to both Regult and Jako shiks, and keeping anyway minor representative rights even for the male population without making them just slaves with no rights.

However they inspired their government on the well known "Iron fist in a velvet glove". The hard relevance of military and authoritarism in all sectors of KSM life, even if not unnecessarily oppressing anyone, hardly and mercilessly reacts anytime the matriarchal order is menaced or questioned, and anytime some external powers try to interfere with KSM inner affairs. KSM magistrates and inquisitors, for sure, are not the people you would wish to deal with.

At the present days, about 70% of the people having the right to vote and elect the main assembly is composed by officers that are veterans of the Rebellion of Clones, so part of the first founding backbone, but after years the new trained and enforced regults and jakos are acquiring more relevance within the KSM politics, which is strenghtening the "moderate" faction and emarginating the rests of the "extremist" faction (mostly composed by Dreselandesas).

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THE KSM MILITARY FORCES
Formally Korryn doesn't have an "army". But the KSM Industries corporation has an acknowledged mercenary division and a civil police division. This is just for external eyes. As a matter of facts, KSM does have a real military force, which is (as seen above) the real fundament of the matriarchy.
With the only exception of hard menomations, all women 18 up to 50 years old must serve in the military forces at least 3 months a year, regardless any other occupation or specialization, but for most of KSM women the Military service becomes their life and a permanent occupation.
Males are admitted to permanent service within the civil police only, and only 1 month every 2 years is obligatory for them as military recalls to service. Regardless of their role, they only can reach a maximum rank of senior sergeant, and unless exceptional cases they always serve under the command of female officers. The limitation to seargeant ranks denies them to vote for the main elective organisms, however they can vote for local administrative representative councils.
- The fleet: according to deals with Kasparov CIA and due to the small dimensions of the "corporation" KSM is authorized to have light or fast cruisers as maximum sized military ships. Actually during the rebellion they had control on some heavy cruisers and even a light carrier, but they were given back to Kasparov CIA as symbolic act of surrender after the agreement.
most of the fleet is composed by Frigates and Destroyers, with a few light cruisers and fast attack cruisers. Some ships are designed to compensate the lack of carriers and equippet to store and launch fighters, but the backbone of KSM navy are the Anubis class destroyers, heavily armed with ECM devices and EMP weapons and meant for hidden assaults and boarding operations.
- Standard Infantry: it's actually the "rookie training" force and the one most of the periodically recalled shiks are employed in. their effectives are low, as KSM doesn't have enough power to seriously plan hard battlefield operations on ground, but they're often charged of peace keeping missions and support to civil order operations.
- Rangers: this is the backbone of the KSM army. Stormtoopers specialized in boarding missions and infiltration missions.
- Military pilots: starfighter pilots, they're a minor part, as KSM doesn't have carriers.
- Security Service: they're the best trained soldiers but they're a separate division, under the direct command of the Directorate Speaker and they act also as "praetorians" of the Matriarchy. Secret services are also part of the Security Service activities.
- The civil guard (police): it's the only (para)military corp where males can serve permanently. It's active only con Korryn I and it acts as a standard police; their effectives are more equilibrated, altough officers are always female shiks with a previous solid military experience in other military corps and specifically trained to serve in the "theater" of Korryn I, where the secret face of the Matriarchate has to be kept hidden. The more equilibrated composition is infact part of the "normal" face shown to people visiting or coming to inhabit Korryn I. 

Ranks are all the same for all corps, without differences but for the colors of the insignia.
Lower ranks: Rook, Soldier, Exp. Soldier, Corporal, Sr. Corporal, Sergeant, sr. Sergeant.
Middle ranks: jr Lieutenant, Lieutenant, sr. Lieutenant, Captain, Major
High ranks: lt. Colonel, Colonel, General

The chief commander of all military forces is the Speaker of the Directorate

Note: Security Service ranks are the same, but are considered superior to their exact correspectives in the standard corps. In order to prevent the Security Service to acquire excessive power, the Security Service's commander can have a rank of Lt. Colonel as maximum, which means they cannot be elected to Directorate unless they leave the Security Service to continue their military career ratherway.

Ranks and assignation to different roles and corps is not strictly connected with the Shiks' type (i.e. Jakos, Regults, Dreselandesas, Albertonians or Pawns) but as a matter of fact most of the more qualified roles are occupied by Dreselandesas, even if recently re-conditioned and additive trained Jakos and Regults have more qualified roles than usual. Pawns, the few hired during the pacification ops after the Goealathian Wars, have been mostly used as Rangers but they also serve as Instructors for Jakos' training, in the try to make Jakos more effective, reactive and merciless: they got some success but also a lot of headaches, as some jakos just seems unable to put aside their too empathic attitudes... and this also revealed that Pawns are not so free from feelings as they were supposed to. They easely fall in depression after hours of resultless Jakos' training :)
But in general KSM Jakos show more ruthless attitudes than their standards and even improved abilities in quickly taking decisions and initiative.

FLEET COMPOSITION:
(to be defined in size/numbers)
As a general line the KSM fleet doesn't have large and heavy ships, but emproved at their maximum of efficiency smaller ships, even providing most of them with strong ECM and EMP devices. Not a real form of "cloaking", but KSM ships are evidently concept for back ops, fast strikes and board&capture missions. In a few words, KSM war ships are not meant to be broadswords smashing the enemy to a bloody pulp, but as insidious stilettos, able to softly and precisely penetrate the enemy belly and hit vital organs.
According the agreements with Kasparov CIA, KSM gave back all the heavy cruisers and the one light carrier they had at the Rebellion times. They kept, anyway, a few modified version of Korsar Class Fast Attack Cruisers while the backbone of the fleet is made by frigates and their own design Anubis Class Drestroyers.

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THE KSM INDUSTRIES CEOs: THE DUMMY-MEN
Despite of the ironic title, this is a delicate role. The men sent by Kasparov CIA to be "in charge" on Korryn as supposed CEO of the company, usually keeps his duty for 2 years. It's needed CEOs to be cautious people, not so volitive or willing to really command anything. The only time Kasparov CIA decided to "test" the KSM reaction in case of a decisionist CEO charged for the role, they immediately stepped back, as the chosen CEO's corpse was sent back, dead "due to natural causes" (and this was pretty evident, as a broken neck causes pretty naturally the death of a man).
This accident shortly cooled the relationships between KSM and Kasparov CIA but profits were growing and KSM showed no further consequences or changes in their politics, after the accident, so things came quickly back to normality.
Since that moment Kasparov CIA took different choices, charging only well informed managers for the role, men instruted to not put spokes in the wheels and to not look at KSM's internal affairs too deep. Experienced managers who needed some break from commercial stress, for example, or who were rewarded this way for their long services, having a 2 years nice holiday before the retire to pension.
The CEO's residence on Korryn I is probably the largest of the planet and one of the most luxurious ones. All what the CEO needs to know along his 2 years charge is to say "yes" anytime the Directorate needs his signature under a decision, and the reward consists in a beautiful residence on a nice, resting tropical climated planet with beaches, palm trees, exotic safaris, mundane meetings and extravagant parties, legalized gambling and a lot of well disposed (and well trained to certain activities) girls all around.
Once or twice Kasparov CIA also assigned the charge to incompetent but influent managers they just wanted to keep away from decisions for a while, but recently they started being more cautious with their choices, as they're even more interested and curious about KSM's activities, above all after the unexplicable internal conflict exploded in 3449 among the KSM ruling elite.
The actual CEO is an almost 50 years old experienced manager, not incompetent nor near to retire. He's a prudent man, he perfectly knows the advantages of his position and does absolutely nothing to force Kasparov CIA and/or KSM to remove him. He's used well his time, improving the relationships with both the KSM Drectorate and the other ambassadors from involved nations, and the envoys from other megacorporations. There are even rumors that he could be the very first in getting a second charge for the role, while in the meantime he cautiously tries to collect informations, even trying to infiltrate agents on Korryn II, for his corporate masters.


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OVERALL POPULATION
(...) to be defined
I've not defined yet the overall population. It's expected the main settlements on Korryn II, using both the starting rebel forces colected by KSM and the cryo-sleeping Shiks found aboard the captured Ark Ship, are in the order of hundreds-of-thousands, but we should sum also shiks rectuited later, and the actual incoming colonizers/tourists/workers on Korryn I.
And, finally, we should also add the new clones produced by KSM's cloning chambers as well.


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NEIGHBORHOOD RELATIONSHIPS
(...) to be defined
According to Shabazik's provided infos, system #139 is also occupied by other inhabitated planets, i.e. Kanykia, the Zur Space dominion and Larqvia
Due to their status after the Goelathian Wars and the reconstruction efforts issued by Kasparov CIA it's expected that neighborhood relationships are mainly friendly. :)







Credits for images used:
KSM Logo/Flag: inspired on Shabazik's Kasparov CIA logo, created by me in Inkscape www.inkskape.org
Korryn I: unknown origin 2 pictures from google images, if you find the authors please tell me and I'll credit them
Korryn II: "Outpost" by artofjokinen fav.me/d7up4pz
Korryn II: "Big hunting game on an ice planet" by KlausPillon fav.me/d8j84eb
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NEIGHBORHOODS
- larqven
- kanyiko
- TheReptilianGeneral


Credits:
Nebulosa of Ots, an original sci-fi setting, is part of the wider setting World of Aiers created by Shabazik and any other people who contributed
General lore adjustments: thanks a lot to both Shabazik and lygen1000 for their corrections and suggestions :)
KSM Logo/Flag: inspired on Shabazik's Kasparov CIA logo, created by me in Inkscape www.inkskape.org
Korryn I image: unknown origin 2 pictures from google images, if you find the authors please tell me and I'll credit them
Korryn II image: "Outpost" by artofjokinen fav.me/d7up4pz
Korryn II image: "Big hunting game on an ice planet" by KlausPillon fav.me/d8j84eb

Stupid proof disclaimer, once again:
yes I know. This logo and its colors may recall nazi symbolism.
I am not a nazi, not a nazi supporter, not a nazi extimator. Period.
The black background just recalls the "dark side" in KSM background and activities as rebels; the red elements are from the Kasparov CIA's logo, suggesting the subordinate link with the mega corporation; the gray female symbol is of course both a recall to the well known standard ZTP suits used by Shiks and a reference to the matriarchal government. Finally that "SS-like" S in the middle stays for "Shiks", is represented that way to suggest hard/aggressive attitudes but maybe could recall a side writing I'm working on, about a crossover with Shado Syndicate (this is totally undefined and optional, keep for sure only the S = Shiks)
© 2019 - 2022 Riveda1972
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larqven's avatar
Interesting with the 'Matriarchy', not that I'm too surprised.  Where gender of clones is shown to be overwhelmingly female.  Part of this is that there are all male clones out there mining and doing industry in space or planets that no one ever sees, so that the imbalance isn't as great as might be first thought.  Plus, all the men from established worlds that go out as pioneers needing a mate sooner or later.  It's all about satisfying needs!

Plus, as efficient as cloning might be, good old wombs do the most reproduction work in the end.  This is an important idea, I think, in that issues of gender imbalance and who is 'biological or natural' vs, 'artificial' sort of get resolved eventually for the patient.  Whole populations of 'biological' humans are actually descendants of clones by this time.

So, a matriarchy doesn't surprise me too much, if there are several women for a man, the result might well be a happy man, but women doing so much work largely means women running things.  Men being very valuable--as a biological resource.  Seriously, depending on the story and the world setting, grossly outnumbered men just wont be sent out en mass to war, or placed together in a single environmental dome in a sci-fi setting.

In the long run, a blatant matriarchy is probably not going to be stable as natural births would correct the gender imbalance, and knowledge of other societies is freely available?  It might well be that with worlds to work with, with gulfs of space as isolation, lots of such Utopian development might happen; but there is a lot of development in system 139 already.

Korryn is highly beholden to Kasparov CIA, and KSM seems to be doing everything in their power to stay on their good side, including creating a cover government, with apparently a 'cover patriarchy' on Korryn I to appear 'normal'.  Presumably the shiks in charge took exception to men being so often in charge when most everyone they saw, worked with or otherwise knew were female?

It suggests that the Matriarchy wishes to subvert usual development, and promote a clone society for clones, perhaps by concentrating on continued bio-engineering and cloning new individuals, perhaps having sterile individuals, and maintaining a gender imbalance?

Nice job with the suggestion of there being an attempt to create a revolutionary new clone society within the corporate system with Kasparov CIA unknowing--but maybe catching on?

__________

Love the dual planets of 'Summer' and 'Winter' themes.  I do sort of question Korryn I in that it is like an idyllic planet--why did it get colonized so late?  My personal explanation would be that 1. it is owned by Kasparov CIA, and 2. As a naturally living and vital world, it was under a quarantine for some time so as to be studied first.  These kept it from being colonized until recent decades.

I like the various misdirections.  Korryn I being a great place and all, but the real world being frigid Korryn II and its mining.  The Ark ship connection is interesting, was the Ark taken to Korryn II under cover, or did it ever leave the rogue planet?  An Ark ship obviously represents a lot of resources, on the other hand, modern cloning probably outdoes it in efficiencies?

I've been amazed at some similarities to my own set up, with my two planets also having a pleasant world, plus a mining world.  Also, having an Ark project being involved, and aspects of a clone society, and a military of small ships.  A big difference is my pleasant world is terra-formed from a glaciated one, and the mining planet is lifeless and might remain so.

_____________

Very militarily based society, what with necessary for voting and all.  I've no objections save that it sort of suggests a military state that has a low military.  Which would make me think of a highly regimented society where everyone as some rank, training and duties, but few actually work with military equipment?
Riveda1972's avatar
Another matter I was wondering about population growth speed increased by cloning, is banal math.
Just consider a small (?) factory, with 1000 operative AMCCs. It will have an average production of 2000 clones every three years, supposing they haven't any accident, no clone dies due to natural or artificial causes.
This means that over a "generation" (about 30 years) the factory would produce less than 20000 clones. Thus, withing a generation, the population grew at a 20:1 rate (probably less due to deaths).

Ok considering a normal population (normal = having normal lives, i.e. they work, they eat, they have free time, they breed as a natural choice and not as a forced task) a starting population of 1000 colonists, equally male and females, would barely double its numbers in the same 30 years period (this is an optimistic calc, supposing no one dies and any couple having at least 4 children, that's a bit fantasy in a modern, evolved society). A pure biological reproduction would grant, in the best cases, a growth ratio near to 2:1 over a generation, but very probably this value would be lesser

I.e. after 30 years a cloning boosted colony would overwhelm, by far, the growth rate of a pure biologically reproducting one.
BUT
I wonder how many AMCCs are needed to justify an explosive growth of billions of humans, even considering cloning boosted growth.

I think, in order to quickly grow a starting colony should have at least hundreds of thousands of AMCCs. And this, most of all, focuses on your previous thoughts about the infrastructures needed to support a quickly growing population and the costs of such a explosive growth. I'm really wondering how many AMCCs are built on any planet and how much they cost.
I suppose we can consider the Pirate Bay orbiting Bunnyia as a standard, among cloning "factories" from the megacorporations. It's said it has 20000 clones growing, which suggest they have at least 20000 AMCCs onboard. But it's also said that the Pirate Bay station serves as source of clones for a lot of planets, including Kaniykia, larqvia, Zur, Achastia (let's say the DevArt sector?).

let's say that if Pirate Bay would support the population growth on a single, new colonized world, it could provide 40000 clones in 3 years = ~400'000 clones over a "generation" (supposing no deaths, no accidents, no wars, no raids, no natural disaster, no plague causing unwanted deaths). Over a generation probably the already living clones would also breed by theirselves using the good old way. Let's optimistically say the population will grow up to 500'000 over a generation. Do each single colonized planet have a dedicated cloning station, maybe even larger than the Pirate Bay? This way, maybe the actual numbers could be justified, at least under a reproduction point of view. But what it rests is the cost for infrastructures (and also the ones to keep wourking thousands of AMCCs).

So? What's the real effective boost given by cloning to a planet which is supposed to be jet colonized?
larqven's avatar
Those AMCCs (the cloning tubes and tech I presume?) are the miracle tech that allows colonies to be filled with young, enthusiastic and loyal members.  Wombs of the oft female clones being the means by which the population can continue to explode exponentially.

The AMCCs would have to be continued to be improved upon and manufactured in ever more exponential massive numbers in order to continue an exponential rate of growth.

Clones will never be very cheap, despite the incredible tech for producing a trained, functioning adult every 18 months.  Each AMCC would logically require an infrastructure to power, supply, program and maintain them.  The maintenance is probably a difficult problem.  The fetal clones require some safe fluid matrix to be suspended in, to be cleansed and replaced, for some sort of 'blood' matrix to feed them through their cords.  That feeding matrix being susceptible to infection and needing considerable nutrients to feed it so it can feed the gestating clones.  Maybe millions of liters of various bio-fluids and disposable equipment needing to be generated.  So whole mass industries of differing factories might be needed to supply a cloning facility.  Even if a cloning facility has only a few technicians overseeing automated systems for a thousand tubes, many, many more techs and workers might exist in the background.

For this reason, shiks have a value similar to cars or some sophisticated equipment; they aren't cheap productions even if they are getting cranked out of a factory.  In fact, tubes of thousands might be a good thing to obtain economies of scale.  At least until barriers of needing to haul in several thousands of liters of some bio-fluids in certain proportions and product expiration dates become limitations.

The cost of the AMCCs would surely be comparable to the shiks themselves.  But more than that, the maintenance and supporting industries would add to the ongoing production expense.  The medical nature making production more expensive that a factory producing purely mechanical machines.  The Shabazik story I linked earlier with the stranded ship had the mechanic shik that the crew basically grew using the ship's 'autodoc'.  They HAD the ability--BUT--they seemed to have only grown one of her.  The autodoc intended to only grow cloned tissues and limbs, but could be fixed so as to grow an entire individual--and give her expert knowledge on ship repairs.  But there would seem to have been limits to how many they could create with what bio-supplies they had?

Colonies would presumably have their own cloning facilities.  They would be as necessary as many other factories, and represent a fair amount of the economy, or the air and water purifiers, or power plants and fabricators so as the colony can grow rapidly.  However, given the technical difficulties, and presumably the advanced nature of 35th Century transports, it might well make more sense to buy shiks from afield rather than on the colony itself.  Given that shiks can be programmed with different degrees of moral and social behavior from the same factory, I suspect that many or most shiks ARE transported to where they need to go whether being grown on the colonies themselves.

I think that this is especially true as the numbers of AMCCs would need to increase exponentially as well to keep up with the growing population.  So long established worlds with a lot of resources would be better able to build and maintain the AMCC production.  Early cloning facilities would have been within Ark Ships and produced maybe a few to several thousand total individuals of each race?  Perhaps having each ship stocked with pre-launch created embryos instead of creating them from scratch?  Mid era cloning facilities on colonies cranking out several tens of thousands in their service life?  Later operations producing tens of millions of shiks a year on major systems for Kasparov CIA and others?

With a human population of over a hundred billion, there logically might well have to be over a billion AMCCs?  Basically, there have been five complete generations in the space age.  Each generation would have grown enormously from cloning, but to remain a greater factor than births, an exponential number of more AMCCs would have be built and operated every generation by about a factor of 20.

It sounds like a spreadsheet project to try and determine the effects of natural pregnancies and births to that of ever ramping up numbers of AMCCs together to explain the population explosion.  This IS indeed a situation of there being 'More people alive right now than have ever lived', so the numbers of cloning tubes could likely be in the billions?  Pirate Bay simply couldn't be anything TOO special.  Very likely a means of producing specialized Jako shiks IN space FOR space travel and space work at a travel hub in the frontier Devart sector.

The discovered Ark Ship might be useful, but again, it might be simply obsolete tech, incapable of producing anything other than Regault clones, with systems and bio supplies that can't work anymore?  Still, it might be able to be retrofitted?

Still, the Pirate Bay facility is probably the gold standard of what is possible on the frontier with a decent, but underpopulated planet to support it?  Because the Pirate Bay facility was destroyed--maybe--Korryn could take its place?  I would say NO, but with two planets to work with, with populations on each, and trade in System 139, it might work?  It might also be why Korryn would have a close relationship with Kasparov CIA?

I'll continue to think about this.  In general, I suspect that planetary scale nations would have their own cloning facilities, but early and small colonies would not, and would have to rely on the great mega corporations for clones, mostly because it would just make sense at this time to buy them from expert mass producers than doing so themselves.
Riveda1972's avatar
"Colonies would presumably have their own cloning facilities.  They would be as necessary as many other factories, and represent a fair amount of the economy"
(...)
"With a human population of over a hundred billion, there logically might well have to be over a billion AMCCs?"


Exactly. This is why I continue in finding something strange in the 5-generations-length past since the beginning of colonization to the actual scenery.
Each single AMCC requires power, but above all, it requires a lot of fluids to feed the growing clone. I've modeled one of them for MMD and even if I hadn't made maths about my model, at a first sight I expect a single AMCC would contain at least 2 up to 3 cube meters (i.e. 2 to 3 tons) of liquids. Liquids that have to be mantained, renewed, changed, recycled. I just wonder what kind of induestries are needed just in order to keep some thousands of AMCCs working. And so, again, your right points about the need of infrastructures supporting a so explosive colonization.

On the other side this would be the real source of the abnormal power of trans-national megacorporations. I imagine their power derived from this. They were (and ever become, later) the only with the capabilities to support such of mass production and this could explain the fact that nations are so dependant from them. I can just imagine the debts national governments had made with megacorporations to support their population growth via cloning,,, and why the galaxy is so full of shell-nations which are effectively puppet nations actually controlled by megacorporations

late answer about the remaining questions :)
larqven's avatar
The Timeline

In the Ots setting, it's been about 170 years in the 'Space Age'.  On one hand, using current history, I know that the world of circa 1850 was an alien world, primitive and radically different socially, economically, technologically and so on.  On the other hand, space exploration and colonization is a big deal.  Sure, we've got exacting science and industrial methods to do great things; but those are bare minimum prerequisites to have.  I might be thinking as a 'defeated American'. but it's been 50 years since the Moon Landing.  Where's the hypothetical Moon Base?  Where's the Mars Base?  They don't exist yet, and realistically, they won't exist for many more years.

To be fair, Ots has technological shortcuts in the form of Eden-Tech getting unlocked, (cloning being an early example) and alien tech falling into the hands of the humans of Aiers. The push of having an Aiers world right in system as an achievable goal worth going to unlike the dead planet of Mars, and aliens exist which would push the need to expand to available territory first.

This is also a big push for cloning.

But there is also the negatives of the homeworld of Aiers and even the first founded colony in the Aiers system getting cut off for a long time in the early stages of the Ots era.  How could these early explorers and colonists possibly overcome such a loss of industrial support?  

The Ark Ships are the only real obvious option.  They might be colossal, but when one realizes all they have to do, it can be easy to question if they are large enough.

Plus, there are many questions to answer.  It's like the joke of difficult equation or process written on a board with the words "...and then, a Miracle happens".  It seems to me that this statement exists both the Aiers system gets cut off, AND in the very beginning.  Building a great space station, building a fleet of ships, building the Ark Ships, just doing these are sci-fi level feats in their own right, far beyond what our own world could accomplish at this time.  And even so, they seem wholly inadequate for the task at hand.  Those ships in Ots, with some fledgling colonies would be but 'buckets in a sea' for a time.

I would think that for a human lifetime, colonies would be small and people living in assigned alcoves all their lives.  Before truly building up a cloning facility, a colony or a ship would be concerned with keeping its inhabitants alive first, before worrying about speedy reproduction.  I COULD understand why colonists and explorers might forego normal reproduction altogether in favor of cloning; it might be resource heavy on the 'front end', but it might be far more efficient than the old fashioned way.

Personally, I would prefer a couple more centuries added to the Ots timeline so as to explain the existence of interstellar federations and empires.  

____________

The Megacorporations

It does make sense to me why the megacorporations came into existence and grew so mightily, they WERE the stem allowed human colonization to grow.  They were needed to keep cloning capacity growing along with the population.

The era of exponential growth via cloning might be over, probably marked by the Rebellion of the Clones?  Jakos and other non-Regaults becoming ever more popular, and creating issues of the future of humanity that haven't existed before.  Cloning no longer being necessary to expand to fill the stellar cluster.  Clones gradually becoming more and more specialized and intended towards space work.  Shiks with unnatural bio-engineered capacities being created to fill specialized jobs, but seen as unnatural and unnecessary?
Riveda1972's avatar
Ok I had the time to think further about your points and suggestions.

Why Korryn I has never been colonized before?
Nice you have noted "why Korryn I hadn't been colonized before, if it's a so comfortable world?" This is a good question :) The real answer is banal: because I didn't question about this matter, as when I wrote my first draft I was persuaded the star system wasn't habitated at all, so i wrongly assumed that my shiks were the very first colonists :D
Once known that at least three nations were already present, yes, your question is really relevant, so... uhm... why? Out of your two suggestions I find interesting the second one. Maybe it was originally a terran type planet, not so hospital as "nowadays", but having its own native lifeforms, maybe discovered after a while that Kasparov CIA started improving the terraforming (actually aiers-forming?). Good the idea of a longtime quarantine needed to study the impact of terraformation on a planet which already has its own lifeforms (this someway recall me the issues related to Star Trek's genesis device). aybe we can consider that after the clone rebellion and the goelathian wars, with the fear of an RFB expansion in this sector, environmental and ecologic worries have been put aside in favour of colonization to put a "friendly" flag on this world, before any foe did the same. How does it sound?

The ark ship connection
It has been a kind of deus ex machina, actually. I found a nice picture of a CONMI huge mining ship, and in its description it was compared to ark ships for its size. This had inspired me, as I needed a decent large population to start up a new colony under the control of a former rebel force strong enough to negotiate with Kasparov CIA instead of just surrender to them. Here too, in my first draft I had imagined the two exceptional twin gas giant planets, which had an electromagnetic field strong enough to disturb and evade long range scanners, ideal to hide even a huge ship like an Ark. Once stated that system 139 was already colonized I quickly had to imagine another solution to hide the ark, so here's the "orphan planet" solution :) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rogue_pl…
We know almost nothing about these objects, except they were probably planets torn away from their original systems by the gravitational interference of stronger stars, and actually wandering in the dark, deep space. It just sounded as a nice place where to hide a ship, considering all the huge war fleets used on the battlefronts. :)
Actually I don't know a lor about Ark Ships, but that they have a decent stock of clones to be used for first colonization of new worlds. The fact they probably have also other lifeforms onboard wasn't in my priorities, at the beginning, but you're right this is a matter worth of further considerations :)

Kasparov CIA and KSM
Well I have to not forget that Kasparov CIA, is Kasparov CIA, period :D I mean this: Coalition, we have a problem
Setting a rebel group strong enough to negotiate is a matter, depicting it so strong to deal with Kasparov CIA as if Kasparov CIA was just an annoying fly it's a completely different matter. Kasparov CIA had its interest in closing a battlefront (with KSM) without further losses, and gaining a kind of allied/subordinated force, even if it gained a stron autonomy this way. KSM must be VERY cautious in order to not step on Kasparov CIA's toes, they know they are ridicolously small if compared to mega corporations.
Still they (KSM) have their own plans on long terms point of view, plan that will probably require generations. And they accepted a partially subordinated role in the meantime. KSM's tactics is to keep friendly relationships with Kasparov CIA whenever it's possible, but at the same time keeping safe their independency. This is a kind of thin rope to walk on, for KSM, but it's the only way to pursue their objectives without alarming the mega corporations.
Kasparov CIA itself, on the other side, is not completely unaware of long terms KSM plans for further improvement of artificial humans and sometimes they get worried about the situation on Korryn and about their secret activities (in the first draft I mentioned the try to hire and/or kidnap scientists from other corporations, in order to improve KSM genetic researches); but in general and most of the times, since now both KSM and Kasparov CIA have strictly respected their deal and this probably would lower the attention on KSM activities, at least enough to not have all Kasparov CIA eyes pointed on Korryn every day :)

Genders balance and genetic issues
I expect the female overpopulation among the artificial humans is not only due the fact it's more funny to draw them :) Probably in consideration of the needs of space colonization the ratio was to have more reproductors females in order to grant faster growth on recently colonized planet. It's something like the funny theory exposed by dr. Strangelove about how survive a nuclear war in underground refuges. In the movie he imagined a ratio of 1 male 10 females, to grant a quick growth the day survivors would have abandoned their underground refuges to re-populate the surface. Actually he's also stated that chosen women should have been pretty and attractive in order to "compensate" the fatigues of reproductor males (LOL). Funny but actually the Ots setting about using clones to populate new worlds largely recalls me that theory :)

Now what about the consequences? yes traditional, old good way to have children is the predicted way a starting cloned population would grow. What I have always wondered (also for another setting I was playing with, but limited to solar system colonization) is how to deal with the poor genetic diversification due to the use of the same starting material. genetic engineering to artificially diversificate the genetic plafond? This is a good solution but it requires human kind stays, for a very long time, still depending on cloning technologies, despite of all the emphasys on the "god old way" to make children as the future of colonized planets.

Actually I expect the lack of genetic diversification is one of the most serious problems colonized worlds have to face off (and any "shiks republic" must face off this problem more urgently, as they cannot take into account any massive innest of diversification from biological humans). History, anthropology and genetics just teach us what happens when the same genetic characters are massively and repeatedly breed: malformations, mental illness and other troubles grow frequently among a poorly diversificated population constantly reproducing within their own edges only.
And coming back to us this is the reason why I see interesting and potential storyboards about the try on Larqvia to preserve other intelligent species original of Aiers. This would for sure attire the attentions of "my" (KSM's actually) scientists :)

Males in KSM are both a trouble and a resource. As most of the shiks are cloned, they can be a valid (if not the most important) source for genetic diversification, above all when they come from biologica humans that aren't theirselves second or third generation clone-derived humans. And regadless the diversification contribute they can (or not) provide, their of course necessary for the "good old way" to reproduction :)
This means that KSM leading shiks are interested in keeping them satisfied as more it is possible. At the same time we can avoid to mince words. Shabazik himself told it clearly. The trouble with the use of clones, their accelerated mental growth, the impressed loyalty and obedience, makes a new form of slavery. And considering how pretty are Shiks in general (mybe excluding albertonians) it's not too difficult to imagine which kind of slavery they are subject to, other the working ones. It's not difficult to imagine, from shiks having a strong rebel background, some desire for vengeance, even in this case where I've set them more forward-looking than the rest of rebel shiks. I think this is one of the reasons that justify the coiche of a strictly matriarchal society. I also fin interesting the potential conflict and the tensens caused by this. I ammit, I'm fascinated by paradoxes, I find them excellent source for stories, at least since unbalances aren't too evident and too hard that they quickly cause the implosion of the society.

How strong are in effect the KSM military forces?
Well of course I cannot decide this by myself, I have an original setting all around :D But what I imagine is that KSM, as said, is strong enough to make convenient having them as subordinated/allies than being forced to defeat them with relevant losses. This however doesn't cancel the fact that if only Kasparov CIA (or any other of the main powers in Ots galaxy) decided to put the word "end" on KSM, KSM would courageously fight but has no ral chance to resist more than a few days against an enemy using its huge resources and fleets in the fight :)
Among the KSM society itself, instead, the matter is quite different. Military is a pervasive element of the society, not only for politics but in common daily life. KSM society is hardly militarized, exactly because they are a few, surrounded by a potentially hostile galaxy, with only a few other independent shiks nations. being strong, being always ready for a fast reaction, maybe also a kind of paranoic attitude for security issues and in keeping control over the population (yes, Drow society someway inspired me if you're wondering) is a need for KSM to survive. Also I've been inspired, imagining the odd form of convernment that is at the same time a military regime and a democracy, by the ancient Rome republic, where the "Cursus Honorum" for people who wanted to be elected to any important government role passed through the military career. of course also the contraddictions between a democracy and a factive military regime are source for interesting stories, IMO.




larqven's avatar
Korryn I: It might well be that there was a stricture early on, or in the second wave of development that 'Aiers Type' worlds were too valuable to fight over and to despoil.  At least until research was done.  'We're going to document what we're going to wipe out first'.  It was also on the frontier for a long time, so it probably remained half forgotten for some time, but badly coveted over.  The fears of the RFB encroaching makes for a good reason to develop it.  Ambitious little colonies can be stopped and manipulated by dangling such a world.  An empire on the other hand...

And, arguably, in the greater scheme of things, Korryn I might be more pleasant than valuable.  

Ark Ships: Yes, they have genetic stocks and library studies so as to spawn multiple races, allow for some genetic diversity, and also in creation of ecosystems post Aiersforming.  It would likely be a treasure for a colony to get hold of as they have vast resources.  On the other hand, they are also sort of 'Yesterdays News'.  The facilities and the tech will be old.  I'm not sure that 'Ark Ships' are actually used any more, Likely fleets of smaller, more modern ships go out following Aiersforming.  Ark Ships were used at a time when facilities needed to be larger, and far fewer ships were available?

Kasparov CIA: The Coalition was a serious enough threat, at least until a real one, like RFB should come along.  If they weren't such jerks, if they had managed to get the cooperation of the DEV ART sector, if they had continued to get rival mega corp help, maybe they could have fended off Kasparov CIA.  It was tempting for Larqvia to join their side--but--outside guys who seem like human supremacists, made their introduction by bombing stuff, and showed up in System 139 as bullies, well, they seemed worse than the mega-corp.  Larqvia's position was neutrality, the coalition would have to leave the system before any talk of being friendly could move forward.  Kasparov CIA effectively bullied Larqvia as well, but they definitely seemed to less of two evils.

The Coalition's position was untenable once the interstellar governments started to get involved.

Genetics: The Ark Ships provided a great deal of genetic stock so as to provide decent diversity.  To be fair, I don't know if those stocks and libraries were sufficient enough.  A lot of colonization involved mass produced 'Regault' clones, who were mostly just cloned regular people, but the beauty of them was that they were cranked out as individuals, each batch brothers and sisters or half brothers and sisters of each other.  While that might sound like a recipe for incest, with sufficient batches, the problem could be overcome.  But, it is true that diversity might be an issue.

But it is a lot better than a handful of clone models for normal humans to breed with.  Or a handful of female and male clone models breeding with each other.

I'm not sure, but I think that Regaults were THE principal means of colonizing in the 2nd wave of colonization with Ark ships and so on.  All the shik types have been around a long time (in earlier forms) but the current uses of them is something that came about in recent generations in having such a large proportion of people being shiks.

The idea of largely female exploited clones forming a matriarchy for protection makes sense to me.  In this case, focusing as much or more on gender than genes or some mental programmed ideal.  One might speculate about genetic engineering producing a hermaphrodite race?  Or the genderless clones that exist in canon.

Military in Society:  In reading this, I had actually thought about mentioning the Drow!  I didn't in that there are some differences.  Mostly in that only a proportion of the populous can become professional soldiers.  The Negeemi drow literally withholding true citizenship unless having served as an acolyte.  But that is only 10% of the drow population, 20% of the women.  Another 10% being the men and family of the acolytes, and half the 80% remainder of the population being slaves.

Presumably everyone as a rank in the Matriarchy, but it is largely applied to everyday life.
Riveda1972's avatar
Hi :) answering both your messages at once :)

Korryn I
Agree :) I imagined it, actually, like a kind of "Casablanca" or "Las Vegas" planet, more probably a mix of both them. Is meant as a "business card" planet, which shows the public face of the KSM, under the false identity of a touristic and entartainment colony, directly managed by a company associated and controlled by Kasparov CIA.

Ark Ships & Genetic evolution issues
This is interesting. Maybe yes, the ship could have been a legacy from the first wave of colonizations. Or, maybe it could have been some kind of "refitted" old ship, with more recent technologies, but still lost in the first chaotic phases of the Goelathian invasionrebellion: I could imagine that the fear for RFB's expansionism was even present before both the rebellionand the goelaithian wars, and maybe such of a hurry refitted old ship was a try to quickly colonize unhabitated planets with strategic value and avoid RFB colonized or occupied them first.
But even in case this was just an "ancient" lost ship the more interesting material is of course the potential population carried within, and the variety of well known lifeforms, while the tecnhology itself and the ship's hull and parts are interesting just as a handy source of recyclable materials for colonization and for building outposts and underground settlements on Korryn II.

The eventual presence of non human genetic material is interesting on another point of view.
To justify and explain the uncommon "wise" attitude of my Dreselandesas (at least the ones survived the intestine conflict between an extremist faction and the moderate one) I needed to postulate some limitation to their well known wills to keep safe their superiority, their desire for further improvement of their skills and powers (I've read there are rumors about some of them having developed even psyonic powers) and their attitude toward reproduction (artificial one or only choosing male reproductors considered "worth" of the task).
Because I cannot imagine, ratherway, a valid reason why they should agree the efforts (typical in KSM development plans) in raising both Jakos' and Regults' skills and genetic improvement, loosing this way (or however reducing) their superiority among the cloned humans.

That damn "standovin paradox"
I'm going to write something more accurate about my imagined "Standovin Paradox". According to Shabazik's and lygen1000's corrections and suggestions I'm not setting it as a "fact" but as a theory, at a very first developement stage and still "empyric".
I'm imagining it as an accidental discovery along the studies and the researches for the fastest ways to improve shiks' abilities and powers (in particular making easier to tranfer deselandesas' superior abilities to prole, and empowering both jakos and regults).

Summarizing: I have imagined a kind of inner security mechanism inside human DNA, which tolerates variations and augmented abilities only whihin a certain range, above the "average human capabilities". genetic engineering and cloning of a pre existent model never showed this issue, but this issue has been accidentally discovered when Dreselandesas tried to reproduce in traditional ways (or even with artificial insemination, both male/female and female/female) using only Dreselandesas (or anyway strongly generically improved individuals) as "parents".
When two already augmented DNAs, already near to the superior limit I've imagined for a living being to remain "human", are combined the result may activate that inner security mechanism to avoid an excessive "stretching" of the resulting DNA toward something that is too far from the average human DNA: as a result, while Dreselandesas expect to just sum the benefits from both parent DNAs, what they get is a DNA where mother nature tries to re-balance the excessive disequilibre, hardly lowering capabilities (both mental and physical) in unexpected fields to compensate the benefits, and with unpredictable results.
A possible axample: the 2nd generation Dreselandesa, daughter of two Dreselandesas (genetically inseminated clone, or resulting from a equivalent male + dreselandesa traditional breeding), will show over human abilities too, but will also show unpredictable lacks that compensate the major improvements: random mental illness, menomations, ormonal or organs disfunctions and so on, just depending on random circumstances.

In my idea this risk forced dreselandesa supremacists to face off the limits of their plans for an infinite genetic improvement, and put them in front of a hard alternative only, to bypass the paradox:
1) to completely and definitively leaving the human specie in order to stretch and extend the DNA's adaptve capacities
2) to just accept those limits and search for other kinds of improvements, to feed their supremacy plans.
Of course the idea of not being anymore just "super human" but really no-more-human is suggestive for some Dreselandesas, but severely worries also a lot of them, due to the possible and unpredictable consequences in terms of triggering again "normal" humans' fears and nightmares against rebelling golems... which would probably result in a more massive, wider and ruthless wave of persecutions against artifical humans.

Say again, this is not a fact this is just the result of some experiments along the study for further improvements of shiks, and the well known plans of most of Dreselandesas to keep themselves pure and superior.
It could have been absolutely due to an unfortunate series of accidents, but they were frequent enough to severely worry "my" Dreselandesas, and make them put apart, for now, their "standard" plans, deciding instead (for now) to try extending improved abilities to other shiks types.

(Maybe this is also due to my roleplaying habits, as I definitively don't like overpowered races with no real limitations or malus)

Under this scenery (real facts based or just "persuaded" in my dreselandesas minds) having a Neighbour nation like your one, where not only humans but also other races have been restored, would for sure attire the interest of my scientists and researchers.
As the availability of non human DNA could open new roads to bypass or try to "cheat" the Standovin Paradox. of course this is suitable only if you find interesting this kind of plot :D

ps: it's pretty sure that Dreselandesas didn't accept happily and serenely the idea to hardly improve other shiks' genetic abilities and training, loosing or reducing their supremacy, and this has actually been one of the reasons of the inner conflict between an extremist faction (which wanted to extend the research far and far beyond the human limitations, probably causing much more worries outside the system 139 about the risks of having no-more-human and uncontrolled Dreselandesas, while they are already feared due to being someway super-human) and the moderate faction (which was indeed worried to not trigger again a massive wave of persecutions against artificial humans caused by common humans' - justified - fears).


Kasparov CIA, the "subordinate" KSM and Larqvia's tradition for neutrality
How do you see these elements under a Larqvia-KSM diplomatic relations point of views? Actually it seems that (even if just formally) KSM is more and more "friendly" to Kasparov CIA than your nation. My shiks of course share your thoughts about "the minor of evils", but officially they act as a loyal, subordinate company :)


Military issues
When I speak about a militarized society I didn't mean a society where all people (or most of people) are directly and permanently employed in the army, fleet or security forces of course :)
I mean that any Shik, regadless their job, has to spend at least 3 months a year in keeping high their military training, this thanks to periodic recalls to arms.
I'm pretty sure that the stable, professional military are indeed a minorance over the total.
What I was pointing out is that any "civilian" is meant as a secondary force to mobilize in case of need. Even a Jako gardener is supposed, in KSM society, to can immediately drop on ground her gardening scissors ad take a rifle or to join a military ship crew and serve as artillery officer, just to make an example :)
Militarization of society is not only a matter of daily service but also a matter of "who takes decisions" and of the priorities considered when taking those decisions.
All strategic activities, including scientific research, industrial and energy production, are strictly controlled by military officers, even if subordinates just obey their periodic recalls to arms and normally they do their jobs without need of using weapons.
This causes, of course, that even if not officially formalized, as a result non professional (but still well trained) military will gain the ranks needed to vote later, and hardly, than professional/permanent military personnel. Of course this is not accidental, as it was probably the will of the former founders to keep alive and strong a military mentality among the deciding elite, due to their past as rebels and their long terms plans.

Your points about inner differences among same types of cones are really interesting. I had to "argue" a lot of things as unfortunately (for me) I've discovered this setting very late, and sometimes is difficult to find the way in the middle of such of a long time produced materials, images and writings. Also, I cannot stress Shabazik anytime I wonder about something (let's say, for example: what do we have for FTL engineering and interstellar travels? Hyperjumps like in Star Wars and Battlestar Galactica, or Warp Speed like in Star Trek?). I'm pretty sure I've found some reference to jumps, but many images seems to suggest drives meant for "traditional" travelling from point A to B never leaving the normal space.
 
Ok, ok let's stop disgressions. I expect it's exactly in the general endurance of Jakos the KSM interest in making them better soldiers, even if they'll be probably employed for other tasks and non directly on the battlefield (very valid that example of yours about the head and the shaft of a spear), in their ordinary life and also during war operations. But the point is exactly that in case of need no Jako should act as inept sheeps (or similar to Private Benjamin caricatures), the day an emergency call to arms is fired by the high command :)
larqven's avatar
Military Issues

It's fine to have a highly regimented society, even if pretty weak.  In fact, when a state has to rely on 'broomstick guns and backyard shed bunkers' sort of military where regimentation and 'everyone does their part' becomes very important.  Where everyone has a part to play in the military, or civil defense, or something.  And duties rarely completely end and call up is always possible.  

And uniforms.  Lots of uniforms, from kids at school, various civil services, and police who might not be so far removed from the military.  If invasion ever happens, the people will fight for every block!  And every local district has plans for just that.

And clones might emerge from their tubes with such concepts already settled into their synapses.

Fanaticism might get people killed, but can do quite a bit of damage in turn, particularly if it is fanaticism of an intelligent kind.  What weapons and systems that exist to defend the society will be used very competently to be sure.

I wonder about the balance between the 'military of now' vs, the 'Founding Rebels'.  One having a role in leading to the other and a dichotomy existing what with an ideal of freedom and regimentation to ensure it.

_____________

I loved aspects of the original "Battlestar Galactica", but the science of the show made little sense.  The Galactica could go light speed when on full power--and would travel intergalactic distances with no great difficulty or time.  

You might know as much now about the Ots setting as I do!  For a long time I knew of the Data Zones, but little more, and figured that otherwise, distances were covered by relativistic time distortion wackiness.  Eventually, it becoming clear that there had to be some FTL going on for going where one wanted without relying on the data zone jump gates, and getting there in a reasonable time.

I haven't been as big a fan of the Sci Fi era as the Fantasy one; in large part in that the setting bugs me a bit.  Largely in Interstellar empires arising in just generations and so on.  I thought in terms of 'adding another zero' to the timeline; I was half serious.  I almost begged Shabazik to add another century to the timeline for development time.


Cloning has been a principal explanation, but an old resource management game called "Ascendancy" really made a big impression on me; that game was all about colonizing planets and HAD 'cloning facilities'.  They didn't make much of difference, reproductive speed wasn't the limiting factor so much as building infrastructure.  Building infrastructure took a long time anyway, and cloning only enslaved the colony to that purpose all the more, not less, in providing for the housing and feeding and jobs for that extra population.  

A planet stayed in its nascent and early stages for a long time before suddenly exploding towards good development and capacity to DO stuff.  And this was with the idea that something like an Ark Ship, an ark of tens of millions of colonists lands as a fully formed vast metropolis.  A vast metropolis that is almost lost on a new planet, and is going to be absorbed in building itself for a long, long time.

Kasparov CIA and Larqvia

Larqvia got summoned into existence as a result of the interstellar nuclear missile barrage that was the genesis of the Devart War.  Shabazik kindly awarded me with two planets, I decided one should be lifeless so as not to be too grasping!  Though I did make them a double planet system so that they could be close together and aid in production.

Their outstanding features are an orbital elevator on each planet and a large space station between the two known as carousel.  Carousel able to manufacture space ships and serving as a space dock and shipping center.

Larqvia is an independent country, but is part of the LCP,

It tried to remain neutral in the war, but got threatened and 'attacked' by the Coalition, and then got bullied by Kasparov CIA.  Getting the Coalition to leave was an official reason for joining forces.  Kasparov used the Carousel station for resupply and regrouping and then went on to remove the enemy fleet from the system with help from native governments in the system, some of the Larqvia fleet went with them in this.

I had a list of ships at the time, but don't remember what they were.  It was largely smaller ships, with maybe a few makeshift pocket carriers.  There were lots of long distance fighters, that is, fighter-bombers with boosters.

The Coalition had made an entreaty to join forces, secretly or otherwise, to make use of the manufacturing capacity of Larqvia.  They used a lot of the discontent with the mega-corporations in general, and Kasparov CIA in particular so as to gain support.  Officially, Larqvia was having none of this.  Unofficially, it was seen as a possibility.  But the more that was known of the Coalition members, the less likable they were.  

Larqvia had indeed had a rebellion in the Clone Revolts.  Albeit, it wasn't a revolution so much as a change of elites.  Larqvia is rather 'elf-minded', the secret weapon of Larqvia is elf mana-manipulation using mana devices and such.  Aenian clones, Aenian pilots, children bio-engineered to be elves meant to take over 'someday'.  When the Clone Revolts happened, the elite elven children, Dreselandeses and so on decided that 'someday' had arrived.  But there was little or no blood lost as they were largely in control already, were meant to be in control...someday.

And, then they didn't know for sure what to do, there were conflicting visions, a fragile new order and need for business to continue, so almost nothing changed.  During the Devart war, shiks, particularly Dreselandeses considered the possibilities, and were incensed when Kasparov CIA bullied Larqvia and took control of the situation.  Of course, others happily saw the mega-corp as the hero in this situation, the Coalition being seen as little better than a coalition of pirates.

But it did lead to a failed coup of dreselandes trying to take over the nation in a similar manner as before.  In this case, simplified, Aenian clones, sci-fi elves vs. super-human factions; once they worked together, now they were opposed.

Historically, there was some ambition of becoming a power through manufacturing and such, but upon achieving developmental goals, finding that other planets were being settled as well, or not worth going to war over.  (Korryn being settled late actually changes this ... )

As Kanyika had many inter stellar missiles, Larqvia developed a lot of INTRA stellar missiles as a counter, just in case.  'Good fences make good neighbors' and all that.

Larqvia's got various planetary defenses, a lot of orbital platforms in the double planet system, armed space stations, a fleet of older RFB surplus warships and more advanced vessels.  Most ships being sub-frigate size.  A lot are fighters, fighter bombers and drones.
Riveda1972's avatar
"I wonder about the balance between the 'military of now' vs, the 'Founding Rebels'.  One having a role in leading to the other and a dichotomy existing what with an ideal of freedom and regimentation to ensure it."
Nice point. I suppose the key is in the reasons of the rebellion, that was not a generic rebellion against "power" or due to any utopian alternate idea of society, but against the subordinate role of artificial humans and the lack of rights for them. There's also the motivation at the origins of the matriarchal component in KSM society. Once independent, such of initial group probably argued that a strong control and an efficient and reactive military force was needed in order to preserve their achievements. They probably knew that if they had let their guard down they'd had easily lost all what they fought for.

Although a regimented and heavily militarized society would naturally reduce individual freedoms, this is probably meant as a "necessary evil" to preserve their goals against any external menace. It's not explicitly said but as far as I've read of Shabazik's setting I tend to expect societies in his galactic nations are evidently male-dominated, or a so evident slavery of artificial humans (which are in majority women) would have not been accepted by both people and governments; also if biological human women had more power, they'd probably not accepted the "sexual competition" from millions of pretty, sexy and (above all) obedient cloned women :)

Of course these are just interpolations of mine, I'm probably wrong, but I expect a male-dominated society would tend to repress (or however to worry about) successful tries to overthrow such of social structure. So KSM leader are probably also worried (too worried? a paranoid worry? maybe. maybe not) of a future reaction against them, not only due to the prominent role acquired by clones but even for the overthrown order of powers between males and females.

I expect this also feeds the "paranoia" (recalling me, again, the typical paranoia of a Drow society) against external menaces and the hard, merciless reaction against any inner menace to the established order.
It's not uncommon, and very "human". such of contradictions between ideals tending to freedom and materially resulting in strong authoritarian regimes, with the justification to defend the obtained (or the fore coming) freedoms :D

And yes, having a nice mind controlling ability during the maturation phases of cloned people, sets up a perfect condition that rarely dictatorships had: a perfect "educative" system which almost perfectly forges the minds and the feelings of the people, without need of expensive propaganda, teachers, secret polices to find and repress opponents, and so on. On the other side i imagine that the cloned males are subject to a complementary conditioning during maturation, in order to make them accept their condition.
Actually I bet that both Hitler and Stalin, or dictators from Orwell's 1984 novels would have been more and more happy (and also more dangerous) if they had anything similar to Maturation Chambers and the related mind forging programs :D

On a long-terms point of view, considering a predictable growth of traditional reproduction the usual needs of any authoritarian regime will come back as more relevant but on short and middle terms KSM leaders' efforts are focused on strengthening and consolidating the social structure with a massive reliance on "new generation" (with "hacked" mind conditioning) cloned individuals; and also in improving their industrial and military potential. 

----

"I thought in terms of 'adding another zero' to the timeline; I was half serious.  I almost begged Shabazik to add another century to the timeline for development time."
I actually agree, an additional "zero" would help me a lot too, infact the lost ark ship was the only "exploit" I could imagine to justify a brand new nation came out from nothing in a few years and (albeit not so strong to compete with major nations and corporations) strong enough to negotiate for its (secret/partial) independence. By the way is probably mirrored the way KSM and kasparov CIA look at KSM's status. KSM leased consider themselves as an independent nation mimicing to be a submissive sub-corporation controlled by Kasparov Cia, while Kasparov Cia would probably consider KSM as a puppet nation believing to be independent whilst it actually depends on Kasparov Cia's tolerance to keep live their illusion of independence. Probably truth is in the middle :)

I thought not only in terms of living population needed but, yes, also in terms of infrastructures, settlements, industries and so on. And the other one exploit I imagined was the important contract concerning the recovery, recycling and refitting of ship wreckages near the battlefronts of the devart wars.

Another (minor) exploit I've imagined concerns the "peace keeping" missions on former coalition planets, or on planets like Zur. I imagined them as a nice chance to put hand on brand new genetic stocks (from "foreign" invaders, prisoners or left on the former coalition worlds), usefult to extend genetic diversification among clones (above all among the regult class clones), but also to try contacting veteran clones having a previous experience with the Rebellion of Clones wars and offering them interesting roles inside the KSM military organization (this second attempts, of course, acted very very cautiously, to not cause upset in the mega-corporations).

However, about the too compressed timeline, maybe a lot depends on how much it actually costs the "production" of a single clone. If the costs are reasonable, above all considering that so popular jakos need less food, this could explain the ultra-rapid development of interstellar nations (eventually I would doubt about the quick expansion of RFB, which doesn't make use of clones at all, nor uses IAs to control robotized improvement of colonized worlds).

LCP
This is something I liked to ask, as I've recently read on the wiki about the Fifty years war. If I've not misunderstood, LCP is described like a kind of ally (if not as a subordinate power) for RFB. Considering the RFB attitude toward cloning human beings, I'm wondering how this can match with so many worlds clone-populated in LCP to be allied with RFB. Or is this any other "yesterday news"? °_°

"Historically, there was some ambition of becoming a power through manufacturing and such, but upon achieving developmental goals, finding that other planets were being settled as well, or not worth going to war over.  (Korryn being settled late actually changes this ... )"
not sure of having understood. In which sense do you mean this? :)

Zur Space Dominion
It's our other planetary system neighbor, with you, me and Kanyikia. What do you know about them? I tried to contact generalreptilian but I got the impression he's no more interested in the scenario at all and just abandoned it. What I've understood is only that the world has been nuked by Kasparov Cia (but not why... did he join the coalition?) and it's actually a real mess, due to mercenary and criminal organizations and due to any typical issues of any post-nuke setting :) Anymore useful I should know?


----


larqven's avatar
Thanks for your thoughts on 'freedom vs. security'.  

The LCP is a loose federation of independent worlds.  They have or had a relation with the RFB, but that is all.  The 50 Years War concluded a generation and more ago.

The RFB are more the 'conservatives' than the enemy.  They, at least, are not cranking out clones to be exploited.  Of course, someday they might well become foes of clone societies.  Particularly those who are departing from 'mainstream' humanity via genetic engineering.  Regault clones are not particularly upsetting, but other types are not so easily accepted.

Clones ARE expensive to crank out, Regaults being the cheapest.  Even the humble Jako is actually the result of a great deal of genetic engineering and research.  Basically, clones are akin to buying new cars, hundreds of them might be crippling.

I'm not going to be able to research it now, but as I seem to remember, the proto-RFB folks had an advantage of decades in exploration and colonization, and more ships as well.  However, the colonists who came after them had superior tech and ships.  Anyway, the people who would become the RFB had a head start.

The fast advancements basically came about by science reaching a point that Eden-tech suddenly started to get unlocked.  Plus the first aliens arrived and left tech on Aiers.

For meta-reasons, Aiers had a long '20th Century', with '40's' level tech also in conjunction with 'weird science' in a 'diesel punk', or 'Castle Wolfenstein' sort of way.  There is at least one other Aiers type planet in the system, so it provided a push to get there that Mars doesn't for us.  So, there are reasons why tech and space exploration suddenly exploded, but, much like population growth, I can't really believe how quickly a space opera setting came into be; colonizing and development ought to take more time.

If Koryn I and II were just floating there, unclaimed, Larqvia or someone else might have tried to seize them is what I meant.  Larqvia was ambitious enough to might have tried at one time, unless something was stopping them.

Despite its fearsome name, the Zur Space Dominion is essentially a failed and ruined colony.  It had a government lost to a military junta, it got hit by the unexpected barrage from Terra from the Goelithian sector it would have factions of turncoats that worked both for and against the Coalition and Kasparov CIA.  It faced occupation and conquest, collaboration, and it would suffer multiple times due to the Coalition blasting it and then occupying it, and then getting blasted off of it.  If I remember right, experimental 'nano-tech zombie' weapon crap got used there too.  Basically, it's reduced to a 'Mad-Max' world.  I'm not sure that normal humans and Regaults can even survive on the planet without breathing apparatus.

On a 'meta-level', players got pulled unexpectedly into this role-play story, and some got--screwed--for in-game or for meta-reasons related to skill at role-play and 'lawyering' or 'what unexpected tech or peoples not native to the setting' was allowed or not.  Nobody's world got beat up or manipulated for less reason more than Zur.
Riveda1972's avatar
Yes, contradictions rights/authority, freedoms/security is a hot topic in any time and society, real or fictional :)
And the fact "power" tend to use common people's fears to justify authoritarism is something Shabazik himself suggest to know very well:

Mature Content

Shootout by Shabazik


RFB initial advantages
Yes I've read something about this on the wiki. If I haven't misunderstood they first met an alien race and got some boost from this, in the first wave of expansion. Still I think you're right about the too short timeline. 122'000'000'000 is the RFB population according to the wiki.

Well... how? How in less than 2 centuries? Even supposing the muslim religion in RFB (and their ancestors of course) allowed any biological male to have a full harem of biological women (resulting from where? without playing with genetics, I expect humans still reproduce in 1:1 ratio, considenting males and females), breeding every year... it's a huge number to deal with, having just a few generations to come from a single origin planet and then becoming the largest and most populated of the human empires in the galaxy, neither using clonation to speed up the colonization.

RFB and LCP current relationships
I see. This is an important news :D
I agree to not consider them as "evil" but under artificial humans (or artificial elves, artificial any-original-aiers-race) point of view I suppose they're however seen as a menace, above all by genetically improved clones. As well I expect megacorporations implied in clonation technologies (like Kasparov, gentek, APharma and so on) wouldn't look at RFB with excessive serenity... as they could be easely considered the main responbible for the "sin" of creating life in vice of God.

Larqvia, KSM and previously unhabitated but habitable Korryn-I and II
I agree your point. Probably the only justification could be the same we imagined first: a kind of quarantine set up by Kasparov Cia or any other power strong enough to make Larqvia renounce their plans to colonize the two worlds. And after the end of the Goelaithian Wars I can imagine Kasparov Cia reunited Larqvia, Kanyikia and Ksm around a table to inform them of the new situation, asking both Larqvia and Kanyikia to not interfere, and asking KSM to do absolutely nothing to damage Larqvia's and Kanyikia's interests in the planetary system as well. Maybe also Larqvia and Kanyikia could have been involved and granted a percentage of the profits from KSM's activities, or a part in the colonization of Korryn-I. If you have ideas on the matter, tell me. As the last force arrived, of course, I don't want to "overwrite" anything concerning pre-existing setting, except for the very minimum needed to justify my existence :)
Depending on Larqvia's approach about Zur's issues and current "post-nuke situation", I could even imagine both concurrent or converging interests. I'm pretty sure that my KSM would at least TRY to contact some of the wandering bands on ZSD to offer them a chance for a better job ;)

Now time for hard questions.... what about Azimuth Pharma and our star system? Have they been involved in any way? :D
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larqven's avatar
There are still things that are fairly basic that haven't made it to the Wiki.

Ark Ships and Super Shiks and Societies:

Ark Ships are one of them.  Upon looking at various info, I'm left with--I'm not sure.  I've thought that they were launched before WW5, but they might have been constructed afterwards, the name being poignant in that Aiers was lost, and the early colonies and growing nations constructed these things.  Anyway, they do seem to be in the past, from 120 years in the past to maybe 'great-granddad's day?  There were multiple classes of them, the biggest ships of their time, approaching 900 meters long, usually the center of a fleet of smaller ships.

They were designed to land on planets--once.  So, they were one-shot items.  If the colonists wanted to use them, they'd better be pretty sure of the planet.

They come equipped with bio material to colonize with various races and build a biosphere.  I seem to remember a lot more about Ark Projects colonizing in an almost religious fervor diverse races, but am unsure where that idea came from.  But after nuclear war seemingly ended Aiers, I can see where the idea might have come from.

Unfortunately, bothering Shabazik might be the easiest way to get answers.

Data Zones are indeed like jump gates, how they work, I don't know.  I'm not sure if they allow travel to one other gate or all of them.  It's the fastest way to get around.

Some ship capable FTL tech(s) certainly exist--none is specified or explained.  The stars in the Nebulosa of Ots are much closer together than in the wider galaxy--I seem to recall.

Shiks are surprisingly not complete either, and I really thought that they were.  There are genderless clones for example, and shiks with genuine super-super abilities such as psionics are called 'Phenoms".  Phenoms are vanishing small in number, being 'concept creations or prototypes'.

A society based on forms of genetic superiority are often portrayed as doomed to destruction.  They immediately fall to tensions between the gifted elites and not-so gifted masses, and usually worse than that: sniping between the gifted individuals killing valuable and irreplaceable members off.

Societies of freed clones building a world for clones, run by dreselandeses will face similar issues.  Because of ranks of differing grades of Dreselandeses (grades C-K); there are differing levels, and 'bridge' to other clone types.

Bizarre societies are possible:  The 'Siren Choir' is all about submergence of the individual into a collective, where differences, even of gender, are reduced in importance or acknowledgement.  

Standovin Paradox:


I've got no problem with the idea.  Although, simple genetic recombination either through sexual means, or artificially as in the creation of Regault clones would do much to eliminate the benefits of genetic engineering.  The 'shuffling of the genetic deck' would push the glories of the parents towards the average.  Advanced genetic engineering putting things near some physical optimization as it is.

In a way, the Dreselandeses really AREN'T truly 'super'.  They are just a bit better than Olympic level, physically, and lower grades may not even be that.  Their mental capacities might be more impressive, but--gifted persons with huge IQs and weird mental capacities to juggle numbers and memory packets already are found among normal humans.

One of Kiborg-Graph's pictorial story on Juana Zeme had Dreselandeses as little more than able soldiers or nerds without glasses next to the stupid but deadly bully Albertonians who were bigger, stronger, tougher and fiercer.  I don't fully agree with the portrayal, but it was reasonable.

Rumors of psionic Dreselandeses might be just that, rumors.  Or else some of these secret labs have managed to secure research and managed to pull it off?

I strongly suspect that sexually derived children of high performing clones will naturally be--less well performing just as a matter of course.  Various high performance talents from two such parents are either going to be the same as the parents or less, there will almost never be any 'stacking'.

I'll cover the rest of this later, a thunderstorm is developing, I don't want to risk losing all this!
lygen1000's avatar
"Ark-class" Ships were invented prior to the loss of Aiers... they're discussed under GENTEK for example.
Riveda1972's avatar
Thanks Lygen1000 :)
I'll go read :)
larqven's avatar
Riveda1972's avatar
Has the thunderstorm gone? :D

Data zones, FTL and ark ships
Nice discovery :D
I've fonud of them here, yes Data Zone
I'm however puzzled about having or not working FTL technologies. What's written there suggest that it's not an unknown technology, and actually i would wonder, regardless how "compressed" the Nebulosa can be, how interstellar travels could be done without any kind of FTL, at least in "human times". just to travel inside a single planetary system, between two relatively close planets, it would take months, without some FTL technology, and years, if not generations, just to reach a near star system. Data Zones are described as a few, among the 200+ colonized or colonizable planets. FTL technologies as far as I read here are considered less advanced if compared to Data Zones but it's clearly suggested to be present. It if weren't, the only presence of Data Zones would have not made useless the Ark Ships to colonize planets outside the ones served by Data Zones. Having FTL technology allows smaller but recursive expeditions of settlers but not having it, or having very limited FTL capabilities, imo, would make totally actual the use of ark ships for colonization purposes (or however ships large enough to carry hundreds of thousands of settlers at one time).
Edit: Found it! Münzenmayer-Anuch Engines so they're called the FTL engines available in the setting :) However I'm not sure of having understood why they're not efficient. Maybe it's limited the range along they can jump?




larqven's avatar
There's been a storm front about every day!

Nebulosa of Ots and FTL (and sublight)

I'm glad that you were found the Münzenmayer-Anuch Engines, it made research easier.

In my opinion, the region of space is most likely an 'Open Cluster' of stars.  Stars of similar age and often of similar composition formed closely together, held together by mutual attraction, though 'eroding' over time as other gravity sources strip systems away.

Normal star density in the spiral arms is something like 0,003 stars per light year.  That sounds really small, but  a cube of space 10 ly per side would have a thousand cubic light years, and hold about three stars.  The Space Sector concept in "Star Trek" is a cube of space 20 ly on a side which would have an average of about 24 stars.

Star clusters will likely be hundreds of times more dense, particularly in the inner core of a star cluster.  There might be an average stellar density more than one star per cubic light year.  With only some 800 or so stars, the Nebulosa of Ots might be only be about ten light years across.  Distant regions no more than several light years from the relatively central Ots system.  The Aiers system is located on the periphery.  (In danger of, or in the process of being stripped from the cluster)

Additionally, with the destruction of the Data Zone of Aiers, the home system was effectively cut off until relatively recently, presumably more effective drive systems being necessary to reach it?  Likewise, an old mining ship taking 10 year cruises for a round trip to the outer core and back, albeit much or most of that time is spent doing the mining work.

So, exploration of the core might have travel distances of much less than a light year between neighboring systems.  A journey to the outer core might be only as distant as a few light years.  So, while FTL might be necessary to explain the speed ships move around, early drive systems, or big, old mining vessels might move only about light speed.  More modern drives might still only move a few times the speed of light?

The sublight system being presumably far less than relativistic, a stranded mining ship requiring decades to get somewhere near a 'hyper-route' they could HOPE to signal a rescue, that distance probably being a lot less than a light year.  Even then, I wouldn't be surprised if the sublight system still had some 'physics bending' component as the energy for acceleration (and deceleration) is prohibitive.

The story of the FTL disabled mining ship is here:  It should work now! by Shabazik  .
Riveda1972's avatar
It's an interesting point of view, even if I always wonder what kind of effect a so dense, close distance stars, would have on planets, both under a gravitational point of view and a cosmic radiation point of view. It's at last true this is a fantasy/sci-fi setting so we can take it as is, period. This can be also a great justification for the endurance Jakos (as well aFras clones) have been given to space environments and long distance travels, where I expect the hardest problems are the exposition to cosmic radiation, the artificial recycled atmospheres aboard the ships and the psychological issues (claustrophoby, boring, forced social relationships and so on).

if distances are so closer than in a "normal" galaxy, yes even low tech FTL engines (let say engines allowing 1 up to 2 or 3 warp factor, just to tell it in star trek slang) would work fine to get stars reached in acceptable times, at least under a colonization/exploration point of view. Military point of view cold be a bit different, depending on the superior limit of possible speed allowed by actual technologies. Taking 1-2 years to reach the closest star system is OK for colonization, but I cannot really figure out effective military strategies (both offensive and defensive) along so stretched operative times :)

For sublight engines I agree, it's quite a must having some technology allowing fast travel inside a planetary system.
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Riveda1972's avatar
Uh oh... finally! Yes I've read this afternoon what's written about Larqvia on the wiki :)

I'd like to ask a lot of things as I can imagine a strong interest, withing KSM leading group, in your activities and experiments. I've wondered myself many of your questions about the future of a "shik nation" and the possible disequilibres of genders.
Actually I also wondered a lot of hard questions about cloning itsef and the usual plans of Dreselandesas to preserve their superiority on long terms and to reproduce themselves as a kind of superior race (which this really sound someway as a nazi plan).  I am, above all, questioning how biological human just tolerate their existence, even after the Rebellion demonstrated how weak was the supposed security of mind conditioning and how dangerous they can be... and they could have been even more if they just were smarter in not trying to reproduce the same caste system, as this choice forced most of clones to not join their rebellion. I barely believe tha the well known "complex of Frankenstein" hasn't been activated here all the fears human kind has to face off anytime they try to get slaves with superior powers and abilities and megacorporations just go on producing and cloning Dreselandesas instead of sterilyzing or exterminating them.
I had even imagined a genetic limitation over the possible improvements of human capabilities, what I called "Standovin Paradox", an invented exploit which would, however, influence the general setting more than how I am supposed to can :)

In my first draft I neither knew that system 139 was occupied already by 3 nations, as I found it "unnamed" in the main list of inhabitated systems, so I imagined a complete planetary system, where I set even a couple of gas giant planets very similar to your ones, running as twin planets on the same orbit :D
Read here if you have the time/will :)  [OTS] A DRAFT SCENERY FOR STAR SYSTEM n.139

Of course when Shabazik informed me about your nation, ZSD and Kanyikia were already here, I had to trash all the astronomical part (that was just a selfish exercise, as I was tired of fantasy and re-discovered interest in sci-fi settings)... but I've tried to keep the substance of the setting I had imagined.  Actually I'd like to know more about the nowadays situation on your nation. It would help in defining what could be a realistic politic line of KSM, of course according to your own suggestions on your side :)
larqven's avatar
The Rebellion of the Clones was an overall movement, of several rebellions rather than some centralized event; so a lot of them will look rather unique.  Some were doubtlessly more aggressive protest than revolutions, while others were well about the replacement of weak humans with stronger ones.  Lots of revolts were spawned due to earlier ones taking place.  But they would share similarities; not least being Dreselandes being particularly clever, having some ambition and disdain, and being highly placed were key personnel to making a revolt happen and give it some success.

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It's easy to laugh at Jakos as human sheep; but consider--most jobs in the military involve logistics and support rather than going out and personally shooting enemies.  A force with a whole lot of Jakos cooperatively and cheerfully working efficiently, who don't mess about to relieve tension, and need less resources than other human types.  They might be human sheep, but they are still super human and ARE a potent force in themselves.  At least as the shaft of the spear, the actual spearhead being more martial clone types.

It's not surprising that the same caste system is reborn in clone states.  It is what they are used to--what they've been designed for.

There are different grades of shiks.  Some Jakos are indeed military grade, and are capable of acting as efficient commandos.  They might not be kickass like Dreselandes or Albertonian soldiers, the Dres for being super human and the Alberts for being big and strong and tough shock troops, but Jakos could stay in the field a long time and not starve and be resistant to mental fatigue.

Likewise, low grade Dreselandes exist who might be superhuman in some aspects, but be far less impressive in others.  High grade military Jakos can easily defeat low grade civilian Dreselandes.  But while some Dreselandes are doing video game style super stunts using both enhanced mind and body, and some thinking they should run things like "Star Trek's" 'Khan', others are just mid level specialists or administration 'drones'.  But either way, Dreselandes are going to fall into 'running things' even if there might be various overlaps with Jakos.

A lot of pics of hapless Jaks are in that they are of non-military grade Jakos who were put into military service.  The mega-corporations may have corporate fleets and armies, but they actually aren't truly BIG navies or armies.  They usually use teams of super soldiers, and armies of Jakos are of a temporary nature, intended to be used for civilian purposes soon after the need or them evaporates.  Hence, the reason why so many Jakos are so inept.

There are reasons why the Rebellion of the Clones did reasonably well; the mega corps may well run whole star systems under puppet governments, but they are secondary forces themselves, next to the true government coalitions and empires.

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Regault clones might actually be the most common of all clone types, at least in regards to filling out posts in colonizing planets.  Fairly noncontroversial as they are mostly not genetically altered, simple cloned humans with only well known genetic diseases removed.  The most difficult thing about them is that they are produced via an artificial process simulating the natural process, hence a batch will be full of unique individuals as genetic brothers and sisters, or half brothers and sisters.  A colonization program will doubtlessly produce scores or hundreds of batches using genetic stock.  This would keep genetic diversity in place.

Ark ships were certainly designed to promote genetic diversity.

Genetic supremacists would seek to create utopias of genetically engineered clones.  They would have much more trouble with genetic diversity for natural reproduction--and they may very well seek to limit natural reproduction altogether and only rely on clone tubes so as to ensure people of known 'specs'.

Other possibilities might include societies of humans descended from clones, which is actually most societies.  But most of those clone ancestors were the unimpressive Regaults.  Children inheriting some super abilities, but not others, or in an unpredictable way might be seen as both good or bad, and likely bad, in a clone society.

Likewise, the mental conditioning aspect might be seen as something as important as genetic engineering.  Not least in totalitarian societies.

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The corporations now have given more rights to clones, in general.  They have also upped the mental programming so as to make rebellion more unthinkable.  Between a little less to complain about, and stronger force of conditioning there are likely to fewer revolts.  Although, more bizarre behavior is possible from shiks due to the force of conditioning expressing itself in unexpected ways.

Honestly, the powers that be probably should be more wary of Dreselandes shiks.  They seem more concerned about the mass of lower clones than those who effectively become their ringleaders.  The temptation to use them is just too great to do away with them.  A lot of the revolts started before hand, with Dreselades joining after the fact, in some cases, being sent to stop the revolts but joining in and then falling into various roles as leaders.

It would not surprise me if Dreselandes come with further restrictions.  A problem with over-restricting them is to curtail what makes them valuable.
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