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Erotica Sourced from Children's Entertainment

Journal Entry: Fri Sep 19, 2008, 8:08 AM

Disclaimer for the Highly Dramatic

The journal entry below is written from long experience on the subject, is not intended to address any particular individual and will make broad generalizations and most likely make use of a sarcastic presentation at times.

In short, it's not specifically about you or anybody you may know so don't attempt to turn it into that.

Also if you are personally offended or feel singled out maybe you should take a good look at exactly what you are attempting to defend before you open your mouth.

Finally This entry refers to characters who have clearly been established as underage and not to cases of "looks like" age comparisons.

Didn't I Talk About This Last Year?

And the answer to that is, "Yes; Yes I Did Indeed".

The subject, for those who haven't quite caught on yet, is those people who choose to draw erotic or sexual work or fanfiction and who deliberately choose to base their work on child characters taken from children's entertainment.

If you're interested in seeing the old journals you can paw though my older entries back to July of 2007. I'm specifically not going to link to them here because, quite frankly, I don't feel like collecting new comments on entries which are fourteen months old but I think I'm going to say pretty much the same thing here.

The Reasoning & The Rant

Let's start with a little background explanation;

For both legal and moral reasons we must deny any actual child erotica or child pornography from being submitted here. D'uh, that's essentially legal lesson number one since you can get tossed in a dark hole by the FBI for allowing that sort of twisted crap on your website.

What I have found is that most rational 'normal' people find actual, real child erotica incredibly offensive, and rightly so. But for some reason some people find fictional children are perfectly fine to drool at sexually and fap over. I mean, chasing after a fifteen year old girl or boy is fine if you're the same age but I think by the time you break into your twenties or thirties if you're still doing the same lusting after you probably need to check into a padded cell somewhere for the protection of society in general.

Let's face it, these people are out there and fictional children are a 'legitimate' target for their twisted attentions because, as of this writing, the legal system doesn't recognize fictional child erotica and pornography as being "wrong"; although there have been several pushes in the United States to change that.

So, often people who are interested in this sort of illegal content featuring children will turn to the 'safe harbor' of cartoons and fictional characters in an attempt to satisfy their desire to view children as sexual objects.

Now do we want to attract these twisted freaks here? Of course not.

Anybody who has followed the refinement of our child nudity policy can clearly see that we want to make deviantART an undesirable destination for freaks.

But addressing photography is only half the effort without addressing fictional presentations and I took measures long ago to ensure that our policy covers this contingency by prohibiting this content on deviantART.

You can call if "censorship" or "unfair" or whatever you want but these are in fact perfectly reasonable controls and if you can't understand why we think they are necessary just think about how many times MySpace has gotten bad press as being a haven for pedophiles and online predators.

So, this particular set of policies have been around since I was granted the responsibility of guiding official policy. They aren't new, although they've been clarified and refined over the years, and they've been enforced the same way for years.

Now since we deny fictional child erotica I noticed an immediate  trend by these types of people to seek a loophole by drawing the characters erotically in their original form and simply claiming that they are of legal age in the work.

So the character looks pretty much exactly the way the twelve year old character looks but you write "SHE IS 18" in your description, slap nipples the size of coffee cups on her bare breasts give her an oversized fat ass and sit back in comfort and the perceived safety of your manufactured loophole and you reap in the hundred comments of "FAPFAPFAP" and "OMG SEXY" from like-minded individuals and bask in the glory of Boob-Artist Popularity.

My apologies but I'm not buying into your loophole and I'm not letting you get away with it either.

In order to block this type of transparent effort to submit child erotica our policy prohibits erotica of any fictional character who is well known and established to be underage in their original context and this policy is strictly enforced.

This is due to the simple fact that, while official reference sheets exist for these characters showing exactly how they should be drawn the reality is that practically nobody outside of the production studios actually follows them so most of the fan art shows unmistakable resemblance but otherwise is not a "faithful" recreation.

In order to address individual stylistic differences and levels of skill and ability we simply cannot accept a claim that you drew that fourteen year old "older" so it's perfectly okay to be showing her with size Double-F breasts flapping in the wind and a thong crammed up her butt crack while she lays spread eagle with her ankles up behind her ears.

So we've been shooting down that poor excuse for ages now, and we'll continue to do so in the future, but I have to give you child erotica people credit for sniffing out new loopholes in order to get your fix.

The newest excuses making the rounds use "epilogue" episodes or chapters as a potential loophole in our policy. I'm sure that you've seen some sort of long running, over-saturated, cash cow series which finally comes to an end; the type where the last episode tries to resolve all the overly hormonal who-sleeps-with-who fan questions because it's never ever coming back again and won't have any spin-offs? Well sometimes they'll do Epilogues which show the future, anywhere from weeks, months or years in the future.

The Harry Potter series did it with a paragraph or two at the end of the last book, the Inuyasha series did it with Chapter 558 of the manga and even Kim Possible did it with their last-ever episode.

I can understand why the creators do this sort of thing; it gives the fans a sense of closure and it doubles as a STFU-And-Don't-Bother-Me message as well.

As far as Official Policy is concerned these Epilogues don't count. If that makes me a Prick to some people then I'll wear that badge.

One epilogue chapter of a character being eighteen is not going to rule out 557 chapters of them being an unchanging fifteen.

One half-page epilogue of a character being in their thirties will not rule out 4110 pages of them being a legal minor.

A series ending movie episode of a high school graduation will not erase 87 episodes of a character being a legal minor.

These aren't real people that we are talking about here, they are cartoons and while some series will possess continuity between episodes the actual logical passage of time is ignored by the writers in order to carry the premise of the show which essentially remains unchanged for the length of the series; a prime example is the Ben 10 cartoon series in which the entire four season run of episodes takes place during a single summer vacation.

But I digress;

My final closing message on this subject is, and always will be, if you want to draw erotica then I advise that you do not choose children's programming as your source and not to choose underage characters as your subject.

Agree or disagree and feel free to debate the subject here if you wish.

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Flagged as Spam
matthew-lane Featured By Owner Aug 5, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
I love how this was written in 2008 & yet now in the year 2012 people are still trying to make this same lazy excuses & still pretending that this rule is new, or its been snuck up on them, or secretly changed to trap them up.
3ltigre Featured By Owner Dec 17, 2009
Alright, outsider looking in here, but I've got to question the whole deal on "Epilogues". While it may give closure to those who are the "freaks", how can you justify that something explicitly written by the creator of a series as not counting? That doesn't make sense to me. So, for example, InuYasha was listed. Ok, so they're 15-16 years old throughout the entirety of the series except for the end, which was not a fanfic, instead being written by Takahashi Rumiko (for those of you not used to Japanese names, Family Name comes before Given Name, i.e. Endo Shozo and Tanaka Naoki, who form the duo Cocorico). That epilogue notes all of the characters have progressed in life as well as age, to include Kagome. So how that could not count is completely beyond comprehension.
ppleater Featured By Owner Sep 23, 2009  Hobbyist General Artist
I understand completely where you're coming from, but what if someone draws say... Harry and Ginny in an adult-ish situation, but it's a more romantic setting, and they're obviously in their late thirties?
Some people draw that sort of thing to emphasize the concept of a character growing up. Would that sort of art be alright? I mean, I wouldn't draw it, but I'm honestly curious.
Or say if someone draws an older representation of a character with whoever they like to pair them with, but it isn't erotic, or at least they're not having sex, and they drew the picture because they like the pairing, not because they were trying to score some sexy points, or because it turned them on? Would you say these people have a more... realistic non-perverted view and let them be? Or would you consider them in the same group as the ones who draw lolicon and shotacon?
I'm curious as to how you view these type of people.
Clairvoire Featured By Owner Sep 13, 2009
I have to agree with Squared 100% on this one. We need to start being more tolerant towards those artists so they can post their work without fear of being banned.
ditto9 Featured By Owner Aug 28, 2009  Professional Digital Artist
Do you know what...I cant BELIEVE that people are fucking going apeshit at your opinion for this, saying 'blah blah its not porn if they have an epilogue'
Get the HELL over it everyone!
Lets use something instantly recognisable - South Park.
If Trey Parker did one episode showcasing an epilogue and the characters as older - this instantly gives people the right to think 'I'm going to draw Cartman having sex with Butters when he's 18'?
BUT these people are forgetting we recognise these characters for their underaged appearances!
Just because you draw a character 'older' does not mean that the audience sees it as older. That may be the problem of the audience but the fact you've drawn Cartman with a dick in the first place means you're pretty fucked up as it is.

I completely agree with you.
The-Reploidst Featured By Owner Aug 13, 2010
The main reason I defended them to begin with is because the offensive way he presented his opinion T'd me off very badly.

I do not enjoy Child Porn/ Erotica or anything like that at all. I prefer girls my age or not much older. Some of the things he said however, were uncalled for, and in some cases, were outright libeling a large portion of DeviantART's userbase.

When I get extremely over something, I tend to go overboard, which can be signified by my two comments about 15-16 comments from the top.

So the main reason I went after him was out of rage, but I stand by what I said. I feel the way he presented his opinion was arrogant, callous, uncalled for, and most importantly: completely unprofessional.
ditto9 Featured By Owner Aug 14, 2010  Professional Digital Artist
*Woah, old reply!*

I can understand that and appreciate your input on it C:
I guess what we can learn is that child erotica shouldn't exist and people shouldn't be rude? C:
The-Reploidst Featured By Owner Aug 14, 2010
It's not up to me to decided whether or not it should exist, but I don't like the idea of actual children being used for porn. If anyone I knew participated in such a thing.

Well. Let us say that the place of eternal damnation for their particular religious belief would be the least of their worries.

Yes, I can be that wrathful.
ditto9 Featured By Owner Aug 15, 2010  Professional Digital Artist
Dont worry, I feel the same way.
KyokoKagami Featured By Owner Jun 1, 2009
I'm sorry that link didn't work, I meant to post this one: [link]
KyokoKagami Featured By Owner Jun 1, 2009
I know this is old but I will say the same thing that has been to you about 100 (or more) times already. :|

I normally don't listen to stuff like this, but: [link]=DOLcdm6wg7s There we go. You should listen to that, seriously. LIGHTEN UP!!!

It is blatantly obvious that you have some kind of twisted personal vendetta against things like this. Especially Anime and... "child porn artists" as you want to label them. Don't make me laugh! :evillaugh: You accuse other people of being "butthurt" because their art was taken down, but it seems to me that you're the one who's been butthurt. :rofl:

You want to make it personal? Fine. We can make it personal too. Mods on this site, as well as any other, should be neutral! Since you have such a bias,

If the artist makes someone over 18 at the end of the show, even if it's just for the last five minutes, it counts as a valid time-skip and therefore should be acknowledged. :nod: PFFT! They should hire someone who knows what they are doing.
ditto9 Featured By Owner Aug 28, 2009  Professional Digital Artist
"It is blatantly obvious that you have some kind of twisted personal vendetta against things like this."
What, and you're saying you aren't against portraying underaged people sexually? Eer, thats disgusting.

Why are you FOR portraying cartoon characters sexually? What the HELL!

And it may count as a valid time-skip, but like I said in my comment to the poster of the journal, your audience and yourself will always see the character as their underaged self, because thats how the original thing is shown.

And how rude of you to say they should hire people who know what they are doing.
KyokoKagami Featured By Owner Sep 14, 2009
Personally when I look at characters I see them as their older selves, if that's how the story is written. If someone over 18 is attracted to a 16 or 17 year old that is "disgusting"? It could often be a 1 year age difference. It's not like I'm into little kids who are like 8 or 9 years old or something. WTF is wrong with YOU?

If a writer writes a character as being 18 then they are 18 in the story. That should be ok. And how can you "see" someone as their younger version if a visual artist portrays someone who is clearly older? That's stupid.

And it is well known that this guy hates anime artists and fanartists. A lot of people know that and he's even said it himself. So oh well. :shrug: You don't know the whole situation. And by the way, they have been very rude to certain people and artists on here who do fanart of certain animes.

I feel sorry for people like you. Argue your pathetic point all you want but your logic is flawed. :|
ditto9 Featured By Owner Sep 14, 2009  Professional Digital Artist
I'm referring to stuff where they're not older for the majority.
Something like Resident Evil - They're all older, I dont think of them as younger or older, I think of them as their ages at the time.

I'm talking about the conciousness of the person viewing it. How can people go and read/view visual material about when they're older, done by fans, and then go back to looking at the true younger character? It's quite frankly, disturbing.

I'm not on about stuff that's on borderline ages, that's a different story, but when it comes to characters (like I said before) such as the South Park kids, it's a lot different. They're 8 years old in the series, and yet, people still feel the need to make them older and produce fan things involving sex that really isn't needed. You go back to the source, and remember you've seen a picture of two of the characters screwing and then watch the show - they're 8 year old kids.

I really dont care about what the original poster hates or loves, I dont know them, I just agree that sexualising cartoon characters who are underage in their respective formats is wrong. I'm not a friend of the person, I dont want a friendship, I happen to agree on a point.

If the character is 18, fair enough. The character is 18 years old and 'legal' although it is bordering a little too close to 'underage'.
I see underage as 16 and under, because thats the limit in the UK.

I can agree with you on points with things such as Harry Potter, because that takes place from when he is one year old, through to his 30s, but because even if it was written like that, I think of him as a teenager because that's how the majority of the books was written.
If the original designer or author has given them an older age, fair enough.

But, seeing as Harry Potter isn't a cartoon character, the fandom seems like a dead argument.
Cartoon characters are meant to be generic, not sexualised, exaggerated human or anthropomorphic beings.

I dont understand how you can view certain characters as their older selves. If they've been given that 'self' by the original creator, fair enough. If not, then I dont understand your logic.
KyokoKagami Featured By Owner Sep 19, 2009
I actually agree with the first part of what you said. :nod: It makes sense. I don't like when they are little kids and stuff. It's gross and I would find that offensive.

If someone wrote a story about an older 30-year-old Harry Potter, I think I'd see him as 30 in my mind. Just because some people lack the imagination to be open-minded enough about it isn't the artist or writer's fault. As long as the person makes a CLEAR effort to portray them as older... In SOME books, the writer makes the character a child at the beginning for a brief time and then advances the story (like a time skip) to go forward. (Like when RealitySquared here used the reference to Inuyasha. I think the original creator, at the end of the series, chose to make everyone older in order to give the fans a chance to see them that way. But if we go by his rules, it doesn't work that way, which is stupid.)

The way this guy is talking it seems like he is saying that in ANY book, TV show, anime, cartoon, etc. once the original creator makes a character underage, no matter the reason, they are automatically younger. So, in other words, a flashback in a movie or even anime back to someone's childhood means that even though the character is in their 20's, they are automatically underage. This is not always the case. A 5-minute flashback could bar a person from ever writing or drawing a character, even though that person was always intended to be over age.

Cartoons can be whatever the cartoonist WANTS them to be.

I'm not here to argue with anyone just to make my point, and clearly, I have. I've said my peace and I'm done with it. I will continue to believe what I already do. Not ALL of it is bad. There is some well-written Shota out there and Shota is hot. :) No one will convince me otherwise. I'm not a pedophile or child molester, in fact, I like older men. :D
ditto9 Featured By Owner Sep 20, 2009  Professional Digital Artist
I think the lines are blurred more with things such as Harry Potter, because the reader is aware that he ages, as by reading it, you are taken through seven years which you are aware of.

If there is a flashback to when they are younger for a very short period of time, then thats fine too, so long as the fan artist isn't depicting their younger counterparts in sexualisation.

I know there's some sickos on the internet, and one guy's lengthy journal entry isn't going to stop anyone.
I do still think sexualising cartoon characters (not talking about anything else here) is probably still sick no matter if they are over the age limit or not, I really think something like Bugs Bunny with his willy out is disgusting.

Sorry for my tiny comment in comparison to yours, I have to go work :X haha.

And sorry for kicking off at you, I was just shocked to see people defending it.
KyokoKagami Featured By Owner Oct 19, 2009
Well if it something gross like bugs bunny or something, yeah it's sick. I totally agree. I just don't think anime characters are the same at all. I mean, yeah they're cartoons but some of them are really hot. :XD:

Sorry for taking so long to get back to you... I haven't had time to be on much. ^^; Hehe.

I am not defending the sick people or pedophiles. That'd be messed up... Just that some artists like to draw fanart of cartoons, and there's nothing wrong with that, as long as it isn't anything sick or depraved. :nod:
Dragonrider1227 Featured By Owner May 25, 2009
If the media doesn't want people being attracted to under aged characters or drawing erotica of them, then maybe they shouldn't be making so many attractive characters and making them 15 or so.
Snowgrl16 Featured By Owner Dec 1, 2009
Loli is good for the soul.:eyes:

Dragonrider1227 Featured By Owner Dec 1, 2009
I'm not a Loli fan (the youngest my characters tend to get is 16 or so) but I agree with that stamp. We should be focusing more on taking out people who are actually harming children then people just sitting around drawings stuff on their own time
chesney Featured By Owner May 11, 2009
It's nice to see that the staff is on the same page with this rule.

[link] Nice, Tails is 8, and has been 8, for as long as I can recall. I guess this one gets a pass, though, huh? :unimpressed:
ditto9 Featured By Owner Aug 28, 2009  Professional Digital Artist
That is actually very disturbing.
Emperor-Z Featured By Owner May 9, 2009
*Has sex with an 18-year old girl*
Guy: Dude! You're disgusting! She was a minor for 17 years!

Doesn't make sense in real life, doesn't make sense here. You can't even draw pics of adult characters because they used to be a child? If we're talking about not wanting to attract pedos, why the heck would a pedo be interested in a picture of an adult-version of a character anyway?
ditto9 Featured By Owner Aug 28, 2009  Professional Digital Artist
Cartoon characters have one thing very, very different from humans. Humans age, and change features.
Cartoon characters normally never age, heck, they dont ever change their clothes!
The symbolism behind it is much different.
KyokoKagami Featured By Owner Jun 1, 2009
LOL exactly!!! :clap: I agree with you 100%
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