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#645: Some vegans take it too far by Pupaveg #645: Some vegans take it too far by Pupaveg
It's almost time... In about 4 days I will launch my crowdfunding campaign to produce this book. It will be a limited edition book (500 copies worldwide) and E-books, so if you want it before it's sold out, keep an eye on my page, because I'll announce the campaign soon.
The first book in these series has already been produced, and I still have some copies of it available here: www.pupaveg.com/Pupa-Vegan-RED…

:star: First book: www.pupaveg.com/Pupa-Vegan-RED…
:star: My other products: www.pupaveg.com/All-products
:star: Patreon: www.patreon.com/pupaveg

For this project, too, 100% of the profit will go to the animals in my animal sanctuary: www.pupassanctuary.com/

:iconpupaveg: Art
Quote: VeganForLifeNZ
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:icontragicmoppet:
TragicMoppet Featured By Owner Feb 12, 2019  New Deviant Hobbyist General Artist
if a vegan tells someone to kill themseles then yes, they are taking it too far.
I respect your opinion but sometimes it does happen, everyone has flaws, including me.
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:iconpupaveg:
Pupaveg Featured By Owner Feb 12, 2019  Hobbyist Digital Artist
It actually non-vegans who are not only telling others to die, but actually kill them, too. Vegans suggest that non-vegans stop killing themselves, the planet and animals.
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:iconjumpinglabyrinth:
Jumpinglabyrinth Featured By Owner Dec 5, 2018
I don't care what anyone's opinion is as long as they don't shove it down my throat
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:iconpupaveg:
Pupaveg Featured By Owner Edited Dec 6, 2018  Hobbyist Digital Artist
That's what it means to be vegan: you stop shoving your choice down animals their throats by forcing them to die for it. Instead, you respect their choice to live.
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:iconcolorochka:
Colorochka Featured By Owner Dec 5, 2018  Student Digital Artist
Приходит как-то Пупа и Лупа получать зарплату, но в бухгалтерии всё перепутали, и дали Лупе зарплату за Пупу, а Пупе "за Лупу"
Sorry about that joke ") .....
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:iconpupaveg:
Pupaveg Featured By Owner Dec 5, 2018  Hobbyist Digital Artist
English, hun.
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:iconredatomisk:
Redatomisk Featured By Owner Dec 5, 2018
I don't like the idea of killing animals, but it's a natural cycle, and humans are omnivores. We're supposed to do that.

We could stand to be alot more humane about it, though.
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:iconpupaveg:
Pupaveg Featured By Owner Dec 5, 2018  Hobbyist Digital Artist
There is no humane way to kill someone who does not want to die. It is untrue that you only do things that you consider to be natural - you use the internet, you presumably use a car or a bus or a plane, and so on. You use modern technology, and do various other things that cannot be called natural. Likewise, there are other things that are natural that you avoid. Nature is pretty cruel, and we actually live life in modern society trying to avoid the perils of nature. You might argue that anything is natural which humans are capable of. But if you argue that, then the justification "it's natural" would apply to literally any human behaviour, and as such is ridiculous, since you would not say that any human behaviour is justified just because a human did it.

Humans have no biological need for animal products, so by eating them, we kill animals for our pleasure. And to do so is immoral.
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:iconredatomisk:
Redatomisk Featured By Owner Dec 7, 2018
Nobody "likes" killing animals, but that's simply the food chain. It's not about justification, we are biologically classed as omnivores. It's possible to go without, but we're not really supposed to.

I do think avoiding harming animals is a noble cause, and i respect people who do, but i have a hard time liking them because they all give obnoxious lectures and call me immoral.
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:iconpupaveg:
Pupaveg Featured By Owner Dec 7, 2018  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Food chain? I am not really sure what this means but I will try to cover it - if the suggestion is that "you live you die, therefore killing is fine" then this would justify killing companion animals and also humans. If the suggestion is "we kill an animal so that we can live" then this is false. Animals are killed for the enjoyment of eating their dead bodies. It is not a matter of survival, as proven by all the hundreds of millions of vegans in the world.

Basic anatomy chart by Pupaveg

Even if you believe that eating meat is natural for humans, it is untrue that you only do things that you consider to be natural - you use the internet, you presumably use a car or a bus or a plane, and so on. You use modern technology, and do various other things that cannot be called natural. Likewise, there are other things that are natural that you avoid. Nature is pretty cruel, and we actually live life in modern society trying to avoid the perils of nature. You might argue that anything is natural which humans are capable of. But if you argue that, then the justification "it's natural" would apply to literally any human behaviour, and as such is ridiculous, since you would not say that any human behaviour is justified just because a human did it.

If a choice has victims, people are going to speak up for the victims. Sorry, that's just how it is. For the perpatrator it might not be nice to be told tha they're harming others, but I assure you that to the victim it's even worse to be harmed.
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:iconredatomisk:
Redatomisk Featured By Owner Dec 9, 2018
You are painfully obnoxious.
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:iconpupaveg:
Pupaveg Featured By Owner Dec 10, 2018  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Yes, stating inconvenient facts is "being obnoxious" to some people.
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:iconredatomisk:
Redatomisk Featured By Owner Dec 10, 2018
No, it's about you being preachy and condescending. I don't even disagree with your cause, it's just hard to like you personally
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:iconpupaveg:
Pupaveg Featured By Owner Dec 11, 2018  Hobbyist Digital Artist
That's a bit odd, because all I did was...

:bulletblue: State that factory farming is not "the food chain".
:bulletblue: Stating the fact that we don't only do things that are natural.
:bulletblue: Stating that if a choice has victims, people are going to speak up.

No offense, but if you dislike people for stating facts or explaining simple things to you, maybe it's not my personality that's the problem?
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(1 Reply)
:iconderpmugapwool:
derpmugapwool Featured By Owner Dec 5, 2018  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Right, so I know treatment of animals is a big issue when it comes to them being farmed, slaughtered etc...
However if, for example, all animals harvested for food and resources were just sent off wherever they were kept and into the world, what would they do rather than eat, crap, unintentionally fertilise the ground, reproduce and then die?

'Could it be that particularly intelligent looking bovine over there that shall create a cure to pancreatic cancer?'

All I'm saying is as long as the animal dies in a painless way, lives a long life in large and healthy living conditions with plenty of friends and is treated with respect, surely it is ok if we eat it.
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:iconpupaveg:
Pupaveg Featured By Owner Edited Dec 6, 2018  Hobbyist Digital Artist
The suggestion is that vegans want all domesticated animals to be released into the wild. But that's not what anybody is suggesting. You can't do that practically because those animals are domesticated, and are not natural breeds, they were selectively bred. So it would be releasing billions of animals into eco systems which would cause so many unknown problems. What vegans want is for animals to stop being bred. It isn't a question of - either they get eaten by wild animals, or by us. We don't need to be breeding them at all.

Regardless of the nature of their lives before slaughter, farmed animals get sent to slaughter. There is a misconception that animals get to "live out their lives" and then get killed. Animals get killed as soon as their purpose is served, or as soon as they reach a profitable size, which is at a fraction of their potential lifespan. The very definition of grass-fed/organic/free-range animals is actually very loose and can vary wildly. It doesn't mean that the animals have any kind of quality of life necessarily, it just means the farm has to meet some arbitrary requirements to earn that title. That's not to say that every single farmer treats their animals dreadfully while they live - some actually do give their animals a fair standard of life before sending them to have their throats slit. But it's ignorant to think it's the norm in the first place.

The standard legal form of slaughter for animals is for them to be "stunned" and then have their throats slit. For chickens and pigs, the stunning is generally done with an electric shock, and for other animals a pneumatic bolt pistol projects a metal rod into their forehead. It is claimed that this renders the animal 100% unconscious, but if you actually look into the facts, slaughterhouse workers will admit that there is no way to verify that this is the case for every single animal, and indeed the process doesn't always work, isn't followed routinely, and indeed, the "stun" can wear off while the animal is being killed. But regardless of the fashion of execution, there isn't a justification for taking the life. It is still taking the life of a sentient being, for your enjoyment ultimately. If somebody killed your companion animal, I doubt you'd say "that's fine because you did it humanely" as described above.

The bottom like is that the moral value of other sentient beings is not determined by how well they can serve you. It is determined by how important their lives are to them.
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:iconsoldier667:
Soldier667 Featured By Owner Dec 5, 2018  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Don't ya thing they might want to keep on living that good life?
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:iconpupaveg:
Pupaveg Featured By Owner Dec 6, 2018  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Most animals in the industries don't even live a "good life" because they're factory farmed.
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:iconderpmugapwool:
derpmugapwool Featured By Owner Dec 23, 2018  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Firstly, sorry for not replying earlier

Secondly, thanks for the response as I only really commented in search for another perspective (also as you can tell from my first comment I have virtually no knowledge of the topic. Again. I was just curious.)
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:iconpupaveg:
Pupaveg Featured By Owner Dec 25, 2018  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Daisy you're welcome 
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:iconsoldier667:
Soldier667 Featured By Owner Dec 6, 2018  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Right, right. But he was talking about a good sounding life.
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:iconpupaveg:
Pupaveg Featured By Owner Dec 6, 2018  Hobbyist Digital Artist
My dogs live good lives. But that doesn't justify slitting their throats.
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:iconsoldier667:
Soldier667 Featured By Owner Dec 6, 2018  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Nope. They're yours fair and square, and it would make them very sad to be killed. Now who would want to make a doggy sad?
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:iconevelkia:
Evelkia Featured By Owner Dec 5, 2018  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
Well said!
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:iconmikuhatgaming2017:
MikuHatGaming2017 Featured By Owner Dec 5, 2018
MEAT IS FUCKING DELICIOUS AND YOU VEGANS DO TAKE IT TOO FAR
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:iconpupaveg:
Pupaveg Featured By Owner Dec 5, 2018  Hobbyist Digital Artist
How can we morally justify taking someone else's life because we like the way they taste? Harming someone else for one's own pleasure is morally reprehensible, and any good person knows that. Maybe you just have never thought about it, but killing billions of innocent beings and the planet on top of that is a lot more extreme than just not doing that. Food for thought. :)
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:iconmikuhatgaming2017:
MikuHatGaming2017 Featured By Owner Dec 5, 2018
But we bred cows for that, and he have been eating meat for thousands of years and other animals have been doing it for MILLIONS, it's called a fucking food chain and we're on the top. We are designed to eat meat and just cause one person said that a cow looked at me cutely said that we should stop ain't going to change GENETICS. I'm a carnivore and proud of it
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:iconpupaveg:
Pupaveg Featured By Owner Edited Dec 5, 2018  Hobbyist Digital Artist
"They're bred to be killed so it's fine"
Following this logic, if somebody has a dog living with them, and she is pregnant, then simply standing there and saying "When those puppies are born I am going to kill them all" would be enough justification for doing so. That of course is absurd. Basically, you are not in a position to determine the fate of an animal. If the argument is that some animals have been selectively bred for consumption, then again, that is not a justification. The entire process of selectively breeding them was done at the hands of humans, and all subsequent loss of life is at their say so and is entirely unnecessary.

"We've been doing it for a long time".
Humans have done a lot of violent things for a long time. However, that is no reason to still continue doing those things today and certainly not a justification.

"Food chain"
I am not really sure what this means but I will try to cover it - if the suggestion is that "you live you die, therefore killing is fine" then this would justify killing companion animals and also humans. If the suggestion is "we kill an animal so that we can live" then this is false. Animals are killed for the enjoyment of eating their dead bodies. It is not a matter of survival, as proven by all the hundreds of millions of vegans in the world.

"Carnivore"
No, you are not a carnivore. Lions, crocodiles and snakes are carnivores and require meat to survive. You do not. You don't have a single anatomical trait in common with carnivores, not even with omnivores. Humans kill animals for pleasure, not for survival. Harming someone else for one's own pleasure is morally reprehensible, and any good person knows that.
Basic anatomy chart by Pupaveg
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:iconmikuhatgaming2017:
MikuHatGaming2017 Featured By Owner Dec 5, 2018
By Carnivore I mean't that I mostly ate meat, mainly Red meat at Mcdonalds (Mmmmmmm, so good). And we don't kill for pleasure, we kill for FOOD, Animals are food, they always have been food, they always will be food, they were our first and only food until we discovered farming, but we still need meat in our diet. With you choosing a Animal-product free diet, you are missing out on the most important nutrient: Protein. Protein is responsible for making you grow and develop muscle and bone mass, along with Calcium from Milk from Cows, without protein, you will whittle away into nothing. And I know that you're going to say stuff about Protein and Calcium supplements but that means that you are missing something from your diet any you need to change that. And another thing, why do you have Veggie-Meat, us meat eaters don't have Meat-veggies, we obviously aren't missing out on our choices. You need meat in your diet, it doesn't matter about ethics here, it's about health. Also, if Livestock farmers lose their jobs due to Meat being banned, there would be a massive uproar from them cause it's hard for them to learn how to farm crops, causing a Finacial collapse. So listen, you can be vegan, but don't come running to me when it bites you in the ass later down the road.
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:iconpupaveg:
Pupaveg Featured By Owner Edited Dec 5, 2018  Hobbyist Digital Artist
"Protein"
This nutrient is extremely easy to come across. If you are eating the correct RDA of total calories each day, then it is virtually impossible to be short of protein. Deficiency of protein is incredibly rare in modern society, and basically only affects people who are starving for whatever reason. It's not a concern for those who are eating a normal amount. The world health organization recommends between 5-10% of your daily calories to come from protein. So many common plant-based foods are in excess of that, many fall within that range, and only a few things like fruit fall slightly beneath. This really is not a concern for anybody.

"Calcium" 
You can get calcium on a plant-based diet, it is in no way exclusive to animal products. Indeed, there are cultures who never had cow's milk, and there isn't a wave of osteoporosis. To take cow's milk requires domestication of animals, and so by definition can only have been achieved relatively recently in human history - prior to that, did we all have osteoporosis? Milk is for infants, it is consumed by mammals during infancy, then there is a weaning process, and in adulthood mammals do not require milk, especially not of another species. If we really needed milk, don't you think we'd keep on drinking it from our mothers? If that sounds weird, then consider that you're just drinking from someone else's mother when you drink cow's milk - and not even of your own species.... 

"Veggie meats"
Veggies meats are made of plants and are an easy choice for those raised with animal products. They are not nessecary for optimal health, but they show that you don't need to miss out on anything, and that you can still enjoy your favourite foods, but then without harming animals and the planet in the process.

"We have to eat animal products to survive"
This is false as proven by all the hundreds of millions of vegans in the world, myself included. As I said, killing animals for "food" IS killing animals for pleasure, since humans have no biological need for animal products.

"I just like the taste" 
Meat is often seen as just being a type of food. But it is a dead body, of a once living creature. To say "I just like the taste" is to say "Killing is justified if I like the flavour of the dead body". If we follow through with this, then somebody would be justified in killing your pets if they liked the taste, which surely nobody would agree with. Or even extend it to humans and say that if someone likes the taste of human flesh, then it's fine to murder people. 

"You're putting people out of jobs because of the effect on the industry"
Just because a product is available for purchase does not make everybody obliged to buy it. This argument becomes clearly absurd when you apply it to anything else - if you stop smoking, you'll be putting people out of jobs in the cigarette industry, so everyone has to smoke. Or, if you stop drinking alcohol, you'll be putting people out of jobs in the alcohol industry, so you have to drink. It makes no sense at all. Industries exist to meet a demand, and to make money from people. If people don't want those products, then that's not their fault, consumers are not obliged to buy everything on offer and fund every single industry out there. If consumers' money is not being spent on one item, it's being spent on another, which means there will be greater demand elsewhere, so the industries change over time to accommodate what consumers want. It doesn't mean job loss in the first place.

#584: Job loss by Pupaveg

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:iconthe-red-samurai:
the-red-samurai Featured By Owner Dec 5, 2018  Hobbyist Writer
1. Humans have canine teeth, we were born from day one to be omnivores, if you wanna be strictly vegan thats fine, but you cannot deny that its a function of humans to have meats

2. Yes it would force us to lose jobs, butchers specially would be screwed and to top it off would bring us only closer to our economic crash

3. You act as though hes referring to a human being cooked and eaten, by that logic your accusing him of cannibalism and putting words in his mouth

4. He never said humans, just animals, and we breed and cook animals because its one of our greatest sources of income & food, and it helps us keep the population of the animals in check

And lastly, 5. No, proper protein and calcium is not super easy to come by, if your saying use vitamins for it, well where do they get the protein and calcium from then? If its artificial it does nothing to repair your muscles and will leave you feeling like shit

and thats not even getting into how we use milk and meat for countless dishes along side greens, such as pizzas, various sweets, and of course a major food for a lot of people, especially in the US, Chicken

NEW MESSAGES
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:iconpupaveg:
Pupaveg Featured By Owner Edited Dec 6, 2018  Hobbyist Digital Artist
1. Even if we had massive fangs, it wouldn't justify killing animals for the enjoyment of eating their dead bodies. It is proven time and time again that we can live on a plant-based diet in great health, so the shape of our teeth puts us under no obligation to kill. But if we look at this argument more closely - firstly there are animals with far bigger canines than us who eat a plant-based diet, like primates and rhinos and so forth. Secondly, our own "canines" are only named that way because of their position and biological classification in our jaw. They have no similarity at all with true canines which actual carnivores have like lions. They are of no use in biting through raw animal hide, especially not that of a living creature.

Basic anatomy chart by Pupaveg

2. That's funny... I don't recall anyone ever writing in to Netflix to tell them of their heartfelt concern about all the people being put out of work in the DVD industry because of the trending online switchover to video on demand content? And I don't recall anyone writing a letter to their bank either, criticising them for their switchover to online statements, thus putting all those poor people out of work in the paper industry. And what about when people quit smoking? Shouldn't we be concerned about all those people being put out of a job in the tobacco industry? As per usual, people are only ever interested in using this argument when it comes to animal exploitation. But anyway, with the workings of supply and demand, changing the demand for a product can cause an industry to 'change its tack', so to speak, so any animal farmers who are genuinely interested in staying in business would be encouraged to switch to crop farming, and so on. In any case, the livelihoods of those on the side of the oppressor is not worth more than the lives of the oppressed. Just as it would not be ethical to continue human slavery on the basis that plantation owners would be put out of work, so too is it unethical to continue animal slavery for fear of farm owners and slaughtermen being put out of work.

3. I never said that he was cooking humans. I said that pleasure is no moral justification to harm sentient beings. Maybe you are putting words into my mouth?

4. You seem to have poor knowledge in nutrition. That's ok, you can't know everything. I don't mind explaining.

Examples of food that contain calcium: broccoli, avocado, celery, bok choy, almonds, pumpkin seeds, okra, collards, turnip greens, prockly pear, kohlrabi, leeks, brazil nuts, artichokes, green beans, coconut meat, onions, gooseberry, fennel, dandelion greens, swiss chard, spinach, kale, butternut squash, brussels sprouts, mulberry, cabbage, sapote, sesame seeds, asparagus etc.
Examples of food that contain protein: all food contains protein and as long as you consume enough calories, it is impossible to become protein deficient.

I haven't eaten meat in 8 years (almost 9 years), and millions of other people all around the world have never eaten meat (such as plantbased Buddhists and Hindus), but we aren't deficient in anything. I suggest you look a bit into nutrition instead of blindly believing the tv commercials of the meat and dairy industries who make it sound like their products are nessecary. You can make vegan pizzas, you can make vegan sweets... everything you eat, I eat vegan. Vegan chicken: www.youtube.com/results?search…

#585: Vegan food is gross? (2) by Pupaveg   #339: Vegan food is gross by Pupaveg
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:iconsoldier667:
Soldier667 Featured By Owner Dec 5, 2018  Hobbyist Digital Artist
That means so little, I need to find a microscope to find the meaning of your comment.
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:iconmikuhatgaming2017:
MikuHatGaming2017 Featured By Owner Dec 5, 2018
Your comment makes no sense, just eat the meat and feel the deliciousness 
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:iconsoldier667:
Soldier667 Featured By Owner Dec 5, 2018  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Your arguement that flavor is more inportant than life is meaningless. Flavor shoukd not be the driving force of your existence, and I think people like you are *ahem* "lower" for your line of reasoning.

I've eaten meat before, lots of different kinds, including wolf and bear.
All the same flavors of meat can be simulated and synthesized, and usually are because meat is expensive. A lot of people eat meat replacements mixed with normal meat without knowing it. A lot of people are just addicted the flavor of meat, and are conditioned by society to think the way you do.

Also, no, because I don't really think taking advice from an anime obsessed dude with an inflation fetish is the best way to get ahead in life.
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:iconmikuhatgaming2017:
MikuHatGaming2017 Featured By Owner Dec 5, 2018
Did you really say I was lower than you cause I like flavour. How fucking dare you, I just like meat alright and I don't want it to be shitfaced by vegans. If you're going to the length of saying I'm less of a person just cause of a preference, man Fuck you



Also it's an WEIGHT GAIN fetish not an Inflation fetish, do your research before you kink-shame, bro
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:iconsoldier667:
Soldier667 Featured By Owner Dec 5, 2018  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Yeah that's what I'm saying. I've risen above my desire for things to taste meaty, and you haven't. If you don't want to "be shitfaced by vegans" then don't troll their comics.

Same thing as far as I'm concerned.
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:iconmikuhatgaming2017:
MikuHatGaming2017 Featured By Owner Dec 5, 2018
Ooookkkkaaaayyyyy, Mr. r/iamverysmart. Go have your fun in “I’m too good for meat”ville


Also Inflation is expansion through the use of air or water, Weight gain is Expansion through gaining fat cells by ingesting mass amounts of food
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:iconsoldier667:
Soldier667 Featured By Owner Dec 5, 2018  Hobbyist Digital Artist
That's disgusting both ways.
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(1 Reply)
:iconpupaveg:
Pupaveg Featured By Owner Dec 5, 2018  Hobbyist Digital Artist
How can we morally justify taking someone else's life because we like the way they taste? Harming someone else for one's own pleasure is morally reprehensible, and any good person knows that.
Veganism isn't a taste issue, it's an ethical issue. 
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:iconrawey155177:
Rawey155177 Featured By Owner Dec 5, 2018
In polish pupa means butt
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:iconpupaveg:
Pupaveg Featured By Owner Dec 5, 2018  Hobbyist Digital Artist
I know. Can't you see the butt on my old logo? :lol: 
#558: Love is not compatible with killing (11) by Pupaveg
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:iconrawey155177:
Rawey155177 Featured By Owner Dec 6, 2018
Well I am on your profile first time -_-
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:iconpupaveg:
Pupaveg Featured By Owner Dec 6, 2018  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Haha ^_^ Okay!
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:icongutter-waif:
Gutter-Waif Featured By Owner Dec 5, 2018
Holy sheets on a bed! You made a valid point but made it easy to digest! Freaking awesome!
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:iconmikuhatgaming2017:
MikuHatGaming2017 Featured By Owner Dec 5, 2018
Actually, no they didn't, all they did was use typical PETA Propaganda to say that eating meat, which animals and humans have been doing since we and they began existing, is the spawn of satan. Eat the meat and you'll be fine, actually you'll be better, thanks to the numerous health benefits and necessities that comes from meats
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:iconallythewolffy98:
AllytheWolffy98 Featured By Owner Dec 6, 2018  Student Digital Artist
You do realize that even vegans hate PETA, right?
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:iconmikuhatgaming2017:
MikuHatGaming2017 Featured By Owner Dec 6, 2018
But this vegan is using the same scare tactics as PETA
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:iconallythewolffy98:
AllytheWolffy98 Featured By Owner Dec 6, 2018  Student Digital Artist
No, she isn't. PETA does not even care about animals, they even kill them. She isn't.

I was meat eater, but thanks to her she change my mind, and I'm thankful for that.
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:iconmikuhatgaming2017:
MikuHatGaming2017 Featured By Owner Dec 6, 2018
But you’ll regret that.....
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