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#645: Some vegans take it too far
By Pupaveg   |   Watch
55 128 546 (1 Today)
Published: December 5, 2018
It's almost time... In about 4 days I will launch my crowdfunding campaign to produce this book. It will be a limited edition book (500 copies worldwide) and E-books, so if you want it before it's sold out, keep an eye on my page, because I'll announce the campaign soon.
The first book in these series has already been produced, and I still have some copies of it available here: www.pupaveg.com/Pupa-Vegan-RED…

:star: First book: www.pupaveg.com/Pupa-Vegan-RED…
:star: My other products: www.pupaveg.com/All-products
:star: Patreon: www.patreon.com/pupaveg

For this project, too, 100% of the profit will go to the animals in my animal sanctuary: www.pupassanctuary.com/

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Comments (62)
MaskiertKatze's avatar
Just because people buy meat, doesn't mean that they support how they treat them, where else would we get our meat.
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Pupaveg's avatar
Pupaveg|Hobbyist Digital Artist
If you pay the hitman, you're responsible.
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xMySoulHurtsx's avatar
xMySoulHurtsx|Hobbyist Digital Artist
Humans are omnivores, we eat meat, it's only natural. Saying that being a vegan is right is like telling a fox that it can no longer eat small animals, now it can only eat plants. Why is the fact that humans eat meat any different from the fact that other organisms eat meat? Yes, humans are able to make more advanced choices. But we literally have been eating meat for all of our existence. Eat or be eaten.  
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Pupaveg's avatar
Pupaveg|Hobbyist Digital Artist
"It's natural"
It is untrue that you only do things that you consider to be natural - you use the internet, you presumably use a car or a bus or a plane, and so on. You use modern technology, and do various other things that cannot be called natural. Likewise, there are other things that are natural that you avoid. Nature is pretty cruel, and we actually live life in modern society trying to avoid the perils of nature. You might argue that anything is natural which humans are capable of. But if you argue that, then the justification "it's natural" would apply to literally any human behaviour, and as such is ridiculous, since you would not say that any human behaviour is justified just because a human did it.

"We're omnivores"
Having body parts that are simply capable of doing something does not mean that we should do it. To use an analogy, imagine if a man choked someone to death, and then to justify his actions, pointed at his hands. Yes, humans can digest animal products, but why does that mean we should? Vegans are living proof that humans can live long, healthy lives without eating any animal products whatsoever, and they have the same biological makeup (teeth, etc.) of any non-vegan person, thus it is unnecessary to harm animals when there are alternatives. With regards to the teeth, it turns out that our teeth are in no way carnivorous/omnivorous anyway. Humans have flat, blunt teeth, with a jaw capable of moving side to side, just like any herbivore. With regards specifically to our 2 pointy little teeth, these are commonplace in various species of herbivores, such as fruit bats, rhinos, hippos, gorillas, and musk deer (aka the sabre tooth deer), all of which have far larger, sharper canines than our 2 pathetic little apple-crunchers that are completely incapable of even tearing through a pillow, let alone someone's flesh and bone. If humans even had a single omnivorous instinct, the animal rights movement wouldn't even exist because we'd be too busy drooling over slaughterhouse footage to even care. Rather, when we see slaughter footage, we are repulsed by it. A true omnivore or carnivore would salivate or get hungry. See Milton R MIlls MD's graph here from his paper, 'The Comparative Anatomy of Eating' and decide for yourself how closely humans resemble bears, pigs, foxes, and other omnivores.

"Lions do it"
Wild animals kill to survive. They must kill to eat, otherwise they would die. Whether they kill on instinct or are aware of their predicament is irrelevant, we are not in their situation. If you live in modern society and have access to crops, vegetables, fruit, grains etc, then you have no obligation or need for animal products. Also, lions exhibit all kinds of behaviour that you would seek to avoid, for instance, violent territorial disputes, and male lions will kill the cubs of a female he wishes to mate with because she won't mate while she has cubs around. Lions are not good ethical role models.

"It's been happening for hundreds of years"
The amount of time that something has been happening is not at all linked with how harmful it is to the victims. Indeed, the fact that it has been going on so long just underlines how harmful it has been, because the death toll is so high it will never be calculated, and has been entirely unnecessary since we were able to harvest crops successfully. With this attitude nothing would ever change in society, and things that used to happen for hundreds of years like slavery and so on would continue today just because that's what has been happening.

"Eat or be eaten" 
I am not really sure what this means but I will try to cover it - if the suggestion is that "you live you die, therefore killing is fine" then this would justify killing companion animals and also humans. If the suggestion is "we kill an animal so that we can live" then this is false. Animals are killed for the enjoyment of eating their dead bodies. It is not a matter of survival, as proven by all the hundreds of millions of vegans in the world.

:peace: Hope you think about it.
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xMySoulHurtsx's avatar
xMySoulHurtsx|Hobbyist Digital Artist
Your reply literally makes me feel as my username suggests. I can see all of your points, I may even say I can agree with some of them. But still, the fact that you have made so many of these comics showing how being a vegan is great and how not-vegans are ignorant is getting me to disagree with you more. I get that we have the ability to change our diet to not eat meat or animal products in general, I just find it useless. I am again keeping with my statement that if other animals eat meat, than sure as hell humans can too. I find it hard to move away from a diet that most humans have had for a long time. As do I find it useless to. We eat meat, eat animal products, so what. It generally doesn't make any difference to me. I don't feel bad when eating some chicken (accept for school stuff, then I feel bad about what I'm forcing into myself. School meat disgusts me) because there are so many of them, by this point it doesn't even matter.
What I'm saying (with all of this rambling) is that I don't care If you're vegan, not being vegan or vegetarian isn't bad. It isn't something to be ashamed of and sure as heck nobody should become vegan or vegetarian if they don't want to. Nobody should feel bad eating meat, eggs, drinking milk, etc. It's not bad at all. I can't throw any animal facts in here because I really don't have any other than marine life facts. I sure won't go online to look for credible sources for an online argument with a strange either.
(Bonus fuel right here: sometimes you can't become vegan , because of health needs. For people like me included, becoming a vegan would be rather hard on our health. If course I'm not saying you will die of you become vegan, but for some people in some cases becoming vegan makes it hard for you to get what you need to survive. Again not true in all cases, but a point to throw out there)
Likely won't get a reply, that's fine though. ~~
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Pupaveg's avatar
PupavegEdited |Hobbyist Digital Artist
I get that we have the ability to change our diet to not eat meat or animal products in general, I just find it useless.
Nobody should feel bad eating meat, eggs, drinking milk, etc. It's not bad at all.

Animal agriculture is the leading cause of global deforestation, habitat destruction, ocean deadzones, water pollution, greenhouse gas emissions, species extinction, world hunger and many other environmental disasters. It's also responsible for trillions of deaths every year, all unnecessary. What do you find "useless" about not killing innocents and the whole planet? And why shouldn't people feel bad about needlessly harming others out of greed and selfishness? I'm not sure why you bring up stuff like "if you want to do it, fine" and "I don't care if you're vegan" because I don't speak up for myself, I speak up for the ones beings sexually exploited, tortured, mutilated and killed. Because I can assure you that they don't want to be enslaved and mass-killed for your pleasure. So if you think that everyone should make their own choices, then walk the talk by respecting their choice to live, too. Because yes, if a choice has victims, people have all right to tell the perpetrator to stop. And being told to stop harming others doesn't make you the victim. The victims are the ones being sexually violated, have their babies taken and have their throats slit "because cheese".

#583: Terrorists by Pupaveg

I am again keeping with my statement that if other animals eat meat, than sure as hell humans can too.

Senseless violence is not justified by saying that wild animals do it, too. As with the "animals eat other animals" justification, people only ever seem to be interested in justifying something on the basis that it's 'natural' when it comes to murdering animals. Rather conveniently, no one seems to be interested in ditching their smartphone, squatting over a hole in the ground to go to the toilet (as opposed to using unnatural man-made sewage systems), allowing their partner to abstain from showering and brushing their teeth, and so on. The truth is that humans utterly despise 'natural', and why wouldn't they—natural is often horrible! In any case, there is nothing at all 'natural' about eating animal products in this day and age anyway, as the definition of 'natural' means something that is not man-made. Given that the animals we eat are a.) forcefully and systematically bred into existence, b.) domesticated and not wild animals (so essentially are a human creation), and c.) are routinely fed antibiotics and other completely unnatural things, it makes absolutely no sense that anyone could say that eating meat or animal products now is natural at all.

#640: Wild animals do it (3) by Pupaveg

Bonus fuel right here: sometimes you can't become vegan , because of health needs.

There are over 80,000 different edible plants in the world. No condition makes you allergic to all of them. Sure, with some conditions it takes some more research to go vegan, but there is no condition that makes you allergic to everything except dead bodies and the breast milk of another species (the latter being considered a food group shows how brainwashed people are). Anyone who's reading this has no excuse to kill animals. Unless you're either a.) sitting on a sand dune in the middle of the Sahara Desert, or b.) sitting in an igloo somewhere in the North Pole, in which case I must say, I'm pretty impressed with your wi-fi signal. Palming off one's own complicity in animal agriculture onto those living in barren wastelands shows a complete lack of ability to take responsibility for one's own actions. If you are reading this now, that means you have access to either a computer, laptop, tablet, or smartphone, which means you also have access to shops and so on.

:peace: Food for thought.
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TragicMoppet's avatar
TragicMoppet|Hobbyist General Artist
if a vegan tells someone to kill themseles then yes, they are taking it too far.
I respect your opinion but sometimes it does happen, everyone has flaws, including me.
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Pupaveg's avatar
Pupaveg|Hobbyist Digital Artist
It actually non-vegans who are not only telling others to die, but actually kill them, too. Vegans suggest that non-vegans stop killing themselves, the planet and animals.
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Jumpinglabyrinth's avatar
I don't care what anyone's opinion is as long as they don't shove it down my throat
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Pupaveg's avatar
PupavegEdited |Hobbyist Digital Artist
That's what it means to be vegan: you stop shoving your choice down animals their throats by forcing them to die for it. Instead, you respect their choice to live.
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Colorochka's avatar
Colorochka|Student Digital Artist
Приходит как-то Пупа и Лупа получать зарплату, но в бухгалтерии всё перепутали, и дали Лупе зарплату за Пупу, а Пупе "за Лупу"
Sorry about that joke ") .....
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Pupaveg's avatar
Pupaveg|Hobbyist Digital Artist
English, hun.
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Redatomisk's avatar
I don't like the idea of killing animals, but it's a natural cycle, and humans are omnivores. We're supposed to do that.

We could stand to be alot more humane about it, though.
Reply  ·  
Pupaveg's avatar
Pupaveg|Hobbyist Digital Artist
There is no humane way to kill someone who does not want to die. It is untrue that you only do things that you consider to be natural - you use the internet, you presumably use a car or a bus or a plane, and so on. You use modern technology, and do various other things that cannot be called natural. Likewise, there are other things that are natural that you avoid. Nature is pretty cruel, and we actually live life in modern society trying to avoid the perils of nature. You might argue that anything is natural which humans are capable of. But if you argue that, then the justification "it's natural" would apply to literally any human behaviour, and as such is ridiculous, since you would not say that any human behaviour is justified just because a human did it.

Humans have no biological need for animal products, so by eating them, we kill animals for our pleasure. And to do so is immoral.
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Redatomisk's avatar
Nobody "likes" killing animals, but that's simply the food chain. It's not about justification, we are biologically classed as omnivores. It's possible to go without, but we're not really supposed to.

I do think avoiding harming animals is a noble cause, and i respect people who do, but i have a hard time liking them because they all give obnoxious lectures and call me immoral.
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Pupaveg's avatar
Pupaveg|Hobbyist Digital Artist
Food chain? I am not really sure what this means but I will try to cover it - if the suggestion is that "you live you die, therefore killing is fine" then this would justify killing companion animals and also humans. If the suggestion is "we kill an animal so that we can live" then this is false. Animals are killed for the enjoyment of eating their dead bodies. It is not a matter of survival, as proven by all the hundreds of millions of vegans in the world.

Basic anatomy chart by Pupaveg

Even if you believe that eating meat is natural for humans, it is untrue that you only do things that you consider to be natural - you use the internet, you presumably use a car or a bus or a plane, and so on. You use modern technology, and do various other things that cannot be called natural. Likewise, there are other things that are natural that you avoid. Nature is pretty cruel, and we actually live life in modern society trying to avoid the perils of nature. You might argue that anything is natural which humans are capable of. But if you argue that, then the justification "it's natural" would apply to literally any human behaviour, and as such is ridiculous, since you would not say that any human behaviour is justified just because a human did it.

If a choice has victims, people are going to speak up for the victims. Sorry, that's just how it is. For the perpatrator it might not be nice to be told tha they're harming others, but I assure you that to the victim it's even worse to be harmed.
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derpmugapwool's avatar
derpmugapwool|Hobbyist Digital Artist
Right, so I know treatment of animals is a big issue when it comes to them being farmed, slaughtered etc...
However if, for example, all animals harvested for food and resources were just sent off wherever they were kept and into the world, what would they do rather than eat, crap, unintentionally fertilise the ground, reproduce and then die?

'Could it be that particularly intelligent looking bovine over there that shall create a cure to pancreatic cancer?'

All I'm saying is as long as the animal dies in a painless way, lives a long life in large and healthy living conditions with plenty of friends and is treated with respect, surely it is ok if we eat it.
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Pupaveg's avatar
PupavegEdited |Hobbyist Digital Artist
The suggestion is that vegans want all domesticated animals to be released into the wild. But that's not what anybody is suggesting. You can't do that practically because those animals are domesticated, and are not natural breeds, they were selectively bred. So it would be releasing billions of animals into eco systems which would cause so many unknown problems. What vegans want is for animals to stop being bred. It isn't a question of - either they get eaten by wild animals, or by us. We don't need to be breeding them at all.

Regardless of the nature of their lives before slaughter, farmed animals get sent to slaughter. There is a misconception that animals get to "live out their lives" and then get killed. Animals get killed as soon as their purpose is served, or as soon as they reach a profitable size, which is at a fraction of their potential lifespan. The very definition of grass-fed/organic/free-range animals is actually very loose and can vary wildly. It doesn't mean that the animals have any kind of quality of life necessarily, it just means the farm has to meet some arbitrary requirements to earn that title. That's not to say that every single farmer treats their animals dreadfully while they live - some actually do give their animals a fair standard of life before sending them to have their throats slit. But it's ignorant to think it's the norm in the first place.

The standard legal form of slaughter for animals is for them to be "stunned" and then have their throats slit. For chickens and pigs, the stunning is generally done with an electric shock, and for other animals a pneumatic bolt pistol projects a metal rod into their forehead. It is claimed that this renders the animal 100% unconscious, but if you actually look into the facts, slaughterhouse workers will admit that there is no way to verify that this is the case for every single animal, and indeed the process doesn't always work, isn't followed routinely, and indeed, the "stun" can wear off while the animal is being killed. But regardless of the fashion of execution, there isn't a justification for taking the life. It is still taking the life of a sentient being, for your enjoyment ultimately. If somebody killed your companion animal, I doubt you'd say "that's fine because you did it humanely" as described above.

The bottom like is that the moral value of other sentient beings is not determined by how well they can serve you. It is determined by how important their lives are to them.
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Soldier667's avatar
Soldier667|Hobbyist Digital Artist
Don't ya thing they might want to keep on living that good life?
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Pupaveg's avatar
Pupaveg|Hobbyist Digital Artist
Most animals in the industries don't even live a "good life" because they're factory farmed.
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derpmugapwool's avatar
derpmugapwool|Hobbyist Digital Artist
Firstly, sorry for not replying earlier

Secondly, thanks for the response as I only really commented in search for another perspective (also as you can tell from my first comment I have virtually no knowledge of the topic. Again. I was just curious.)
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Soldier667's avatar
Soldier667|Hobbyist Digital Artist
Right, right. But he was talking about a good sounding life.
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Evelkia's avatar
Evelkia|Hobbyist Traditional Artist
Well said!
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MikuHatGaming2017's avatar
MEAT IS FUCKING DELICIOUS AND YOU VEGANS DO TAKE IT TOO FAR
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