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#635: My choice (8) by Pupaveg #635: My choice (8) by Pupaveg
It's my personal choice 
It cannot be called a personal choice when it involves harming a third party for a trivial reason, which is your desire to enjoy eating them / their secretions. 

Don't force your opinions on others
If you're reading this, I can pretty much guarantee that I did not talk to *you* about this. Either I have redirected you here because that's what you've accused me of and I didn't do it, or somebody else has redirected you here, in which case, I can't vouch for them and it's not my responsibility. But, in either case, even if somebody did start talking to you about veganism, is it really "forcing" their opinion on you? To simply say "please consider not stabbing animals" is a very reasonable suggestion, is it not? Nobody is in a position to "force" you to do anything, if you want to keep stabbing animals, I am not in a position to prevent you. Indeed, from a non-vegans perspective, your opinion is that animals should be stabbed in the neck. To me, that is a far more forceful application of an opinion than simply asking someone to re-evaluate their position on something politely. 

Stop judging me 
To offer an alternative to animal abuse is not to judge you. Indeed, if somebody is talking to you about the subject, it should suggest to you that they think that you *do* care about animals, and so their judgement of you is positive - they are saying "Surely you wouldn't want to be involved with this?". If they had a negative judgement of you, they wouldn't even bother with you, and would assume you have no compassion for animals, which surely isn't true right?

- Vegan Sidekick

:iconpupaveg: Art
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:iconfinland-skywalker:
Finland-Skywalker Featured By Owner Jan 31, 2019  Hobbyist Filmographer
Do you want to force everyone to become vegan?
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:iconpupaveg:
Pupaveg Featured By Owner Feb 1, 2019  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Even if somebody did start talking to you about veganism, is it really "forcing" their opinion on you? To simply say "please consider not stabbing animals" is a very reasonable suggestion, is it not? Nobody is in a position to "force" you to do anything, if you want to keep stabbing animals, I am not in a position to prevent you. Indeed, from a non-vegans perspective, your opinion is that animals should be stabbed in the neck. To me, that is a far more forceful application of an opinion than simply asking someone to re-evaluate their position on something politely. So if you're really against forcing others to do as you please, it makes no sense for you to be non-vegan. Practice what you preach.
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:iconfinland-skywalker:
Finland-Skywalker Featured By Owner Feb 1, 2019  Hobbyist Filmographer
I don't believe animals should be stabbed in the neck I never said that. Don't jump to conclusions. I was thinking that because you were talking about veganism like it shouldn't be a choice.
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:iconpupaveg:
Pupaveg Featured By Owner Feb 2, 2019  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Are you vegan?
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:iconrespecttheyoshi:
respecttheyoshi Featured By Owner Nov 27, 2018
This is an argument used against abortion as well, the victim in that case being an unborn child.
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:iconpupaveg:
Pupaveg Featured By Owner Edited Nov 27, 2018  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Yeah, it's especially hypocritical for "pro-life" people to consume animal products. Like, they're concerned about the killing of a fetus or a bunch of cells, but killing and torturing already born, sentient beings is "fine". A lot of dairy cows are also having their baby brutally cut out at the slaughterhouse (www.viva.org.uk/sites/default/… image might be graphic) while still alive and being slaughtered and dismembered, until they eventually bleed to death, while their unborn babies struggle on the floor because of the unnatural way the pregnancy was brutally interrupted, only to be either kicked to death or have their blood drained. Pro-life, my ass. Pro-convenient sounds more like it.
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:iconrespecttheyoshi:
respecttheyoshi Featured By Owner Nov 27, 2018
Actually, I feel like it could go both ways. Particularly against pro-choice vegans, with the argument as follows: 

I do not understand how you can get worked up about chicken eggs while also supporting the murder of still-developing fetuses. Considering that both are yet-to-be-born, even if I do acknowledge the "fact" that humans are just another animal, clearly in your eyes we must have even less worth than the rest of the animals if you're willing to say that preventing a chicken embryo from developing is wrong, but aborting the life of a partially-developed human baby is a-ok.
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:iconpupaveg:
Pupaveg Featured By Owner Nov 27, 2018  Hobbyist Digital Artist
The problem vegans have is not with wether or not a chick is inside the egg though. You see, in the egg industry, only females are required because males don't lay eggs. As such, in the breeding process, the males and females are divided when they hatch, and the males are killed immediately as they serve no purpose. Subsequently, their sisters go on to be kept in captivity until their egg production is no longer profitable to the farmer, at which point they have their throats slit. This is generally at around one or two years old. The average lifespan of a chicken is eight years. These animals are genetically manipulated, artificially bred (by restraining the female animals while forcibly impregnating them) and then killed by the billions every single year, just for human greed and selfishness.

I'm pro-life, but I am consistent about wether or not it's ok to kill innocents needlessly. That's why I'm vegan.
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:iconrespecttheyoshi:
respecttheyoshi Featured By Owner Nov 27, 2018
Fair point. Always interesting to look into arguments and the rebuttals that can be made to them.
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:iconpupaveg:
Pupaveg Featured By Owner Nov 27, 2018  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Indeed.
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:iconlyaksandra:
lyaksandra Featured By Owner Nov 27, 2018  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
The only reason for thinking an animal like a cow deserves you siding with it is that you're also an animal. Which is good to know, because there will never come a day when I listen to my cats for advice.

You're responsible for shouting to the four winds and people hearing you. Stop pretending otherwise. You're from the first world, aren't you? Where people have renounced making themselves responsible for WHAT THEY DO. Laughable and pathetic. Get a real job so you're tired and lack the time to think stupid useless things.
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:iconpupaveg:
Pupaveg Featured By Owner Edited Nov 27, 2018  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Why do you assume that people who speak out against animal abuse and the leading cause of environmental ills have no job? We do. Why do you assume that we all live in a 1st world country (probably such as yourself)? We don't. And yes, I am also an animal, and so are you. Humans are animals, this is a fact. So I'm not sure why you state the obvious. I find it a bit odd how you can translate "please don't exploit and kill animals and the planet" to "you're telling me to listen to my cat's advice". It sounds like you have a bad reading comprehension. So instead of telling people who actually make a difference in the world to "go get a job", maybe you should go back to school? Because what is truly "laughable and pathetic" (as you call it) is going to pages against animal abuse to argue in favour of animal abuse. So perhaps I'm not the one with too much time on my hands?
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:iconhicestbellum:
HicEstBellum Featured By Owner Nov 27, 2018  Hobbyist Writer
Eating a cow in a bit. 😍😍
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:iconpupaveg:
Pupaveg Featured By Owner Nov 27, 2018  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Yes, I also have a comic for that one. ^_^

#633: Mmm, bacon (7) by Pupaveg
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:iconarrowkneedguard:
ArrowkneedGuard Featured By Owner Nov 27, 2018  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Tell that to all the poor people thay are being enslaved and tormented to harvest your pretty vegan diet
Also some people like me are allergic or sensitive to plant proteins so

Also animals are delicious
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:iconpupaveg:
Pupaveg Featured By Owner Nov 27, 2018  Hobbyist Digital Artist
"Poor people tho"
#627: Not everyone can go vegan by Pupaveg

Also, the majority of crops produced are fed to cattle, so if you are sincerely against slave labour (and not just pretending to for the sake of argument), it makes no sense for you to consume animal products.

"Taste tho".
Meat is often seen as just being a type of food. But it is a dead body, of a once living creature. To say "I just like the taste" is to say "Killing is justified if I like the flavour of the dead body". If we follow through with this, then somebody would be justified in killing your pets if they liked the taste, which surely nobody would agree with. Or even extend it to humans and say that if someone likes the taste of human flesh, then it's fine to murder people. Harming someone else for one's own pleasure is morally reprehensible, and any good person knows that.

There are over 80,000 different types of plants in the world. No one is allergic to all of them. Also, if you're allergic to certain plants like soy, corn, wheat or grains, better stop eating meat, because the animals it comes from receive it in their feed and you'll react.
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:iconarrowkneedguard:
ArrowkneedGuard Featured By Owner Nov 27, 2018  Hobbyist Digital Artist
You good
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:iconsoldier667:
Soldier667 Featured By Owner Nov 27, 2018  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Finally, someone who sees people the way I do. I always get told there is no moral issue with killing animals because they don't have feelings.

Humans are assholes.

Beans have protein, eat 'em.
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:iconpupaveg:
Pupaveg Featured By Owner Nov 27, 2018  Hobbyist Digital Artist
It is incredibly ignorant to claim that humans are the only animals who have feelings. Not to mention quite stupid, too (sorry, I don't know how else to put it), because even a child can tell.
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:iconsoldier667:
Soldier667 Featured By Owner Nov 27, 2018  Hobbyist Digital Artist
It's OK, I have problems with the Human race too.
It's rare for me to find someone who agrees with me.

Everyone knows animals react intelligently to their environment, and are aware and thinking.
I've heard all the same forms of lame excuses you have heard.

But... as you know, people will make up crap if it helps them sleep at night... or sleep off that hamburger.
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:iconpupaveg:
Pupaveg Featured By Owner Nov 27, 2018  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Yes. It's mostly cultural indoctrination why people react like this. But for some it is indeed selfishness. But as with all forms of oppression that was once condoned (and still is in some areas of the world), this greed and selfishness will eventually dissapear, when a culture evolves morally. After all, no form of systematic oppression will last forever.
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:iconsoldier667:
Soldier667 Featured By Owner Nov 27, 2018  Hobbyist Digital Artist
I sure hope so. SOMEONE has got to start an uprising. May as well start now!

I've been fighting for cold blood rights. People seem to think cold blooded animals aren't sentient for whatever crazy reason. Just because they're not cute and cuddly doesn't mean they're mindless killing machines.

While there are some regulations protecting warm blooded farm animals, and all warm blooded pets, cold bloods have it the worst. They don't even bother trying to slap markeing crap about "humanely raised" on seafood. Heck, the only law protecting any cold blood is that farmed alligators have to have an acre of water. But poor reptiles and insects are fair game for anyone who feels like stepping on them.

I think they should have a choice too.
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:iconpupaveg:
Pupaveg Featured By Owner Nov 27, 2018  Hobbyist Digital Artist
I have a comic on animal sentience: 

#573: Animal sentience by Pupaveg

People can deny that other animals have feelings, but no amount of scientific evidence will sway them.
But how do you meet people stupid enough to actually believe that humans are the only animals with feelings? Where do you live? A cave? :lol:
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:iconsoldier667:
Soldier667 Featured By Owner Nov 27, 2018  Hobbyist Digital Artist
No, a cabin in the middle of nowhere, to get away from the people. Close though!

I think animals are sentient, and some people believe me. But I've meet my fare share of people who think they're not, exactly the idiot in your comic.
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:iconpupaveg:
Pupaveg Featured By Owner Nov 27, 2018  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Wow, almost no one in my country believes that animals don't have feelings. Those who do are rare, and considered major idiots.
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(1 Reply)
:iconbubblesdraws:
BubblesDraws Featured By Owner Nov 27, 2018  Hobbyist Digital Artist
How the fuck would you give animals a choice.
"Hey cow! Can I eat you?
Cow:
"Okay thanks!"
??????
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:iconpupaveg:
Pupaveg Featured By Owner Nov 27, 2018  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Well obviously, all sentient beings want to live. So by not enslaving and killing anyone, you allow them their choice. That's just common sense.
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:iconbubblesdraws:
BubblesDraws Featured By Owner Nov 28, 2018  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Ya ever heard of a suicidal cow? I sure have and you're talking to one
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:iconpupaveg:
Pupaveg Featured By Owner Nov 28, 2018  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Don't be suicidal. :( 
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:iconbubblesdraws:
BubblesDraws Featured By Owner Nov 29, 2018  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Haha lol wish it was that easy
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:icongalaxyjumper15:
Galaxyjumper15 Featured By Owner Nov 27, 2018  Hobbyist Digital Artist
I learned I Biology that plants technically feel pain. They release a chemical that is equivalent to screaming. They try to tell other plants what's going on.


...
Y'all vegans torture your food, we just kill them.
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:iconpupaveg:
Pupaveg Featured By Owner Nov 27, 2018  Hobbyist Digital Artist
First of all, if you're really serious about this and no amount of scientific evidence will sway you - then it purely comes down to numbers. If a blade of grass is of the same importance to you as a dog, then it makes no sense to feed up livestock on millions and millions of plants, and then kill the animal to eat. This would result in far more plant casualties, which you'd surely want to avoid as a dedicated plants-rights activist. Better to minimize those plant casualties by just feeding yourself on them, rather than feeding many times more to animals, right?

But let's be sensible - plants lack brains and lack anything else that neuroscientists know to cause sentience. Some studies show plants to have input/output reactions to certain stimulation, but no study suggests sentience or an ability to "feel emotions". You can plainly understand the difference between a blade of grass and a dog. Comparisons between the two are completely absurd.
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:icon233-c:
233-C Featured By Owner Nov 27, 2018
So does that mean when my dog eats a squirrel or when a mountain lion eats a deer it's immoral? No because they are designed to eat meat, just like we are.
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:iconpupaveg:
Pupaveg Featured By Owner Edited Nov 27, 2018  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Wild animals kill to survive. They must kill to eat, otherwise they would die. Whether they kill on instinct or are aware of their predicament is irrelevant, we are not in their situation. If you live in modern society and have access to crops, vegetables, fruit, grains etc, then you have no obligation or need for animal products. Also, lions exhibit all kinds of behaviour that you would seek to avoid, for instance, violent territorial disputes, and male lions will kill the cubs of a female he wishes to mate with because she won't mate while she has cubs around. Lions are not good ethical role models. Also, saying we're "designed to eat meat, like lions" is quite ignorant. Especially when talking to a living vegan.

#581: Wild animals do it (2) by Pupaveg
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:icon233-c:
233-C Featured By Owner Dec 13, 2018
Mountain lions are not like lions, first off. Second meat contains several fats that you need and can't get from plants.
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:iconpupaveg:
Pupaveg Featured By Owner Dec 13, 2018  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Such as?
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:iconcrazywendigocat:
CrazyWendigoCat Featured By Owner Nov 27, 2018
👌🏻👍🏻
PrEaCh
Reply
:iconbadgalaxy:
BadGalaxy Featured By Owner Nov 27, 2018  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
I'm going to eat bacon in response to this.
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:iconpupaveg:
Pupaveg Featured By Owner Edited Nov 27, 2018  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Is this an art request? Because I already have a comic based on that unoriginal argument vegans have heard 1000 times before, you see. Multiple ones in fact, such as:

#633: Mmm, bacon (7) by Pupaveg   #616: Troll by Pupaveg

So did you still have an intelligent argument to provide?
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:iconbadgalaxy:
BadGalaxy Featured By Owner Dec 3, 2018  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
Nah, I'll stick with what triggers you. I think the saddest thing of all is how many comics you made for this shit. Vegans really are batshit insane.
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:iconpupaveg:
Pupaveg Featured By Owner Dec 4, 2018  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Can you explain why being against animal abuse and the leading cause of environmental destruction is "batshit insane"?
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:iconbadgalaxy:
BadGalaxy Featured By Owner Dec 5, 2018  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
I never said that specifically was batshit insane. It's fine to have morals, it's fine to believe in something. However, nearly every Vegan I have ever met online or in person is like a fervent religious preacher that makes every conversation into about how animals are abused and eating animals is wrong. Me personally, I don't give a fuck about the animals I eat. Do you give a fuck about the ants you step on in the grass? What about the literal billions of bacteria in your mouth dying because you brush your teeth, those are alive too you know. You're a hypocrite, as are all vegans, because just as I exclaim that the life of my dog is worth more than the life of a cow that is not intelligent enough to even realize it exists, you don't seem to mind the death of organisms you kill every day.

Additionally, I would argue environmental destruction and animal abuse have zero correlation, but you're welcome to try and change my mind.

Regardless, at the end of the day, I was saying you're batshit insane because you devote a tremendous amount of time drawing comics attacking people that don't agree with your point of view and painting them in a mocking light. Then, not only do you draw these comics, you defend them in the comments as well against throwaway bullshit like I said just to bait you into responding.

In truth, I pity you. This is because you are most-likely a depressed young girl that holds a very liberal view of the world.
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:iconpupaveg:
Pupaveg Featured By Owner Edited Dec 6, 2018  Hobbyist Digital Artist
To compare veganism to religion is to fail to grasp the difference between faith and a moral argument. It is on par with comparing the concept of women's rights to a belief in Vishnu.
If a choice has victims, people are going to defend the victims, not your choice to harm them. Sorry, that's just how it is. Using the Tu Quoque fallacy to justify senseless violence is quite sad. Imagine a bully or a dog beater saying "but you kill bacteria by brushing your teeth"... would you say that they are using that as an argument? Or more like an excuse?
"I don't care about my victims" has never been a moral justification to harm other sentient beigs. By that logic, we might as well release every criminal in jail and let every criminal do what they want because "we kill bacteria by brushing our teeth" and "they don't care about their victims". You can use your poor excuse for everything!

Animal agricuture is the leading cause of global deforestation, habitat destruction, ocean deadzones, water pollution, greenhouse gas emmissions, species extinction and world hunger. Over 50 billion animals are raised for slaughter each year. In order to feed them, it takes far more land, water and crops to feed them than it does to just feed us 7 billion humans on plants. The number of animals being farmed is unsustainable in fact, causing all kinds of pollution as a result of their manure and the greenhouse gases released, which is more harmful than all traffic pollution combined. Disagree with me? Please feel free to research it, but it's by definition going to require additional farming, space, resources, water...

I draw comics in the defence of several oppressed groups in the world. Those include homosexuals, women in 3rd world countries, people of colour in parts of the world where they're still discriminated and non-human animals. You're out of your mind if you suggest that it's a better idea to defend their oppressors instead. No thanks, I'll keep speaking out for the victims, not the oppressors. They are the victim. Not you. You're literally attacking them, physically. So it's not your place to call defending them "attacking". You're the one attacking, torturing and killing others. I'm defending them. So who is truly in the wrong here?

#239: Artist: offensive comics by Pupaveg
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:iconbadgalaxy:
BadGalaxy Featured By Owner Dec 6, 2018  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
I didn't compare veganism to religion, I compared vegans themselves to fervent religious preachers, because that is essentially what they are. I also didn't say whether or not I supported animal agriculture, so way to read, moron. In summary, I stated that vegans are hypocrites and that the lives of different species are not equal to one-another. It's not that I didn't see your argument, I simply made one of my own and don't give a fuck about the logic behind yours, because I started this little conversation talking about how vegans are insane. Which you're just completely proving my point with your asinine virtue signaling on behalf of 'the victims.' The entire issue is character-based that I brought up.

At no point did I ever say that I was in favor of the conditions that these animals are raised in. But I'll be honest and say that I don't give even the slightest fuck. Their entire existence is owed to humans, and in general these cows or chickens would probably not be able to live in the wild any longer due to generations and generations of gene manipulation via selective breeding. Here's the part where you're going to say "just because x, then it's okay to do y?" because the only arguments you can provide are stark and drastically different comparisons. And yes, it is indeed okay. This is because we see things differently in what we view as the value of life. I value the lives of my fellow humans above other animals because I'm a normal person. You value the life of all organisms. You know, except bacteria or ants or in all likelihood any other creepy-crawly that happens to be buzzing around your food at the time. The only difference between us is where we decide to draw the line on where we stop giving a shit.

Your bullshit about animal deforestation needs to be reputably sourced otherwise I can't take anything you say at face value. Ocean dead-zones are not caused specifically by animal agriculture. They are mostly caused by run-offs on PLANT FARMS of pesticides and nutrients in fertilizers feeding harmful algae blooms. You can choose to believe me or not on that one, I'm a biology major.

I do, however, believe that it is all unsustainable. However I completely support cloning and genetic manipulation to increase meat yields, as well as other alternative methods.

The other subject matter you write your comics on is irrelevant. I really don't think its even worth the time to bother arguing against you about the (((oppressed))) groups in the world when shit like affirmative action exists. In short, deviants, sexual or otherwise, will always be ostracized because they are outliers.

At the end of the day, I just honestly don't give a shit about you or what you believe in. Nothing you say matters because nothing you do matters. Your 500+ simplistic and condescending comics targeting normal individuals is a sad testament to an utter waste of time. The time you spent making this nonsensical shit could have been utilized volunteering at an actual animal shelter to help real abused animals instead of virtue signaling by drawing your slanderous nonsense.

Seriously though, have some bacon, it tastes great.
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:iconpupaveg:
Pupaveg Featured By Owner Dec 6, 2018  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Religion is based upon ancient scripture, tradition, dogma and superstition. Veganism is based on having consideration for animals, and a desire to avoid animal abuse. Animal abuse is real, animals are being exploited and killed in their billions. It's a reality, can be proven to you. To call vegans stating facts about the effects of animal agriculture is to fail to grasp the difference between faith and a moral argument.

#653: Veganism is like a religion by Pupaveg
There are wild versions of farm animals: Junglefowls are wild chickens, there are wild goats, sheep and cows. But even if there were no wild versions of these animals, that still would not morally justifty enslaving and killing the domesticated versions of them for human greed. Saying "I don't care" is no moral justification to harm other sentient beings. One could equally say that they don't are about humans, or that they consider some humans to be superior to others. That is still no justification for harming the humans they view "inferior" and neither is it a justification to harm other sentient animals. The value of other sentient beings is not determined by the arrogance of the oppressors, neither about how their pain gives you (taste) pleasure. Harming someone else for one's own pleasure is morally reprehensible, and any good person knows that.
As for the environmental impact of animal agriculture, please take a look at these post I made and read their artist description for a list of sources:

#216: Fish by Pupaveg   #246: It's unsustainable by Pupaveg #215: Not enough land by Pupaveg

Also, why do you assume that I don't help real animals just because I draw comics in my free time? And honestly, these comics have saved a lot more animals than all shelters in my country combined, because they have turned over 1200 people vegan/vegetarain, meaning that the lives of the up to 10,000 animals these people would have killed and eaten in a lifetime were spared.
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:iconwoaicha:
Woaicha Featured By Owner Nov 27, 2018
:D (Big Grin) :D (Big Grin) :D (Big Grin)  nice
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:icongalaxyjumper15:
Galaxyjumper15 Featured By Owner Nov 27, 2018  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Haha.
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:iconseasstryu1521:
seasstryu1521 Featured By Owner Nov 26, 2018  Hobbyist Digital Artist
The only actually viable argument that someone can give against veganism that involves choice is saying "Everyone and everything should have the ability to pursue their own wishes, and it is not wrong to do so.  That includes if your choice involves stopping someone from making their own"

It is incorrect, however it IS possible to hold this belief without being a hypocrite.  You just have to be both awful enough to accept EVERY scenario, no matter how extreme, that philosophy includes, all whilst being mature enough to accept it when it doesn't benefit you.  So theoretically it's possible, but we've yet to document such a person
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:iconpupaveg:
Pupaveg Featured By Owner Nov 27, 2018  Hobbyist Digital Artist
If one is consistent with their logic, I won't call them a hypocrite. To the perpetrator, morality is subjective. To the victim, however, it never is. Morality is only ever subjective when the person saying that phrase isn't the victim. I'm yet to see one person who uses this excuse actually abide by its principles when it comes to them. What do I mean by this? Simple: anyone who harms others and justifies it by saying "morality is subjective" should write into their country's law courts and tell them that, should anyone ever harm them (e.g. rape or murder them), the person responsible should not be punished, because hey, morality is subjective, and who would we be to force our beliefs on the person who has raped/murdered them, right?

So just like the food chain and the circle of life, the people who use these phrases always exempt themselves from the very rules of it while expecting animals to be victim to it.


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