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www.pupaya.nl
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#661: Cook for the vegan
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Improvement after criticism
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New vegan artbook style
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Commission info
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All you need is plants - vegan t-shirt for men
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All you need is plants - vegan t-shirt for women
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PREY - page 1
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Bellum - concept rough sketch
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Improving my line art
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Bamboo plates - Cute animal art
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#661: Cook for the vegan
24Comments
24Favourites
Improvement after criticism
12Comments
7Favourites
New vegan artbook style
10Comments
5Favourites
Commission info
0Comments
7Favourites
All you need is plants - vegan t-shirt for men
11Comments
3Favourites
All you need is plants - vegan t-shirt for women
0Comments
3Favourites
PREY - page 1
29Comments
59Favourites
Bellum - concept rough sketch
15Comments
9Favourites
Improving my line art
11Comments
6Favourites
Bamboo plates - Cute animal art
2Comments
8Favourites
#661: Cook for the vegan
24Comments
24Favourites
Improvement after criticism
12Comments
7Favourites
New vegan artbook style
10Comments
5Favourites
#415: Labels
8Comments
6Favourites
#467: Absurd justifications (5)
21Comments
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#463: Liberation is terrorism
19Comments
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#461: Happy exploitation (5)
16Comments
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#403: Apologists summarized
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#402: The apologist approach
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#408: Ex-vegan (5)
9Comments
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Artist // Hobbyist // Digital Art
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H1ghr1s3l0v3rStudent General Artist
Hello! Do you mind if I ask a question here? As a non-vegan, there is something I am genuinely curious about: what are common misconceptions that people who eat meat have about vegans? What are some of the most common attitudes that you face for your practice?

I can't abstain from meat partially due to health reasons, and while I cannot ask you to accept it, it would be nice to respect it, just as I respect your views and practices. I'm fully behind protecting the environment, both animals and plant life. It upsets me to see how indigenous forests are being cleared for mass breeding and wild animals ruthlessly hunted for profit, and I support movements that aim to stop or at least gradually reduce that. I find your actions honourable and you don't seem to force anything onto people, which is nice.

Greetings.
PupavegHobbyist Digital Artist
Thanks for stopping by! Here are the answers to your questions:

what are common misconceptions that people who eat meat have about vegans? What are some of the most common attitudes that you face for your practice?

One example is the second argument you provided: "I can't go vegan for health reasons". About 90% of the non-vegans I talk to pull this argument, mostly out of ignorance about nutrition. Another example is, as you've stated yourself, that people ask us animal-lovers to respect their choice to kill animals. It is on par with asking a dog lover to respect your choice to abuse dogs, or asking a feminist to respect your choice to beat women. It's incredibly rude and unreasonable to ask someone who cares about a group of oppressed victims to respect your choice to harm those very victims, I'm sure you realize.

while I cannot ask you to accept it, it would be nice to respect it, just as I respect your views and practices.

People often think this is about vegans their choice VS meat-eaters their choice. But it's not. You see, vegans don't speak on behalf of themselves, but on behalf of animals and the planet. Veganism isn't a diet like vegetarianism is; it's an ethical stance. So this is a matter of the animals and the planet's choice to live VS meat eater's enjoyment. And from a moral perspective, the former takes priority, so I speak up for the victims. This is why I always tell people, as I have written on my front page: "Please do not ask me to respect your choice to harm animals and the earth... I respect the victims' choice to live more than your choice to needlessly harm them. I hope you understand that".

Examples of the most common myths and misconceptions I hear are things like:
"If we stop breeding animals by the billions to kill, they will overpopulate!" (which literally makes no sense)
"If we don't kill animals for bacon, they will go extinct" (which also literally makes no sense; slitting endangered animals their throats is not part of their conservation)
"You need meat for protein, B12, iron, etc." (which isn't true, as proven by the over 800 million vegans and vegetarians in the world)
"I have an allergy, so that means I'm allergic to everything, including all 80,000 different edible plants in the world... everything but burnt corpse and the baby milk from another species mama's nipples". (this often stems from ignorance, but also often from willful ignorance)
"Stop forcing your choice on me!" (When you tell them to stop forcing their choice on the animals).
"Lions eating meat to survive is on par with mass-killing bred animals for our enjoyment". (lions also rape, commit infanticide and kill rival males, lions are not ethical role models).
"Morality is subjective" (unless they're the victim, of course).
"Plants feel pain, too" (all the more reason to leave animals off your plate, because the over 58 billion animals bred every year consume more plants than 7.5 billion humans. On top of that: animal agriculture is the leading cause of global deforestation).

Most arguments come forth out of ignorance though, so I just try to educate people by explaining how it really is, and try to challenge their dogmatic beliefs. I back up all of my information with hundreds of exclusively peer-reviewed studies/papers (so no random websites or industry-funded propaganda, solely peer-reviewed). But to make the information more accessible, I draw comics instead of boring text walls. Many people still don't know that animal agriculture is the leading cause of deforestation (over 75%), greenhouse gas emissions (51%), ocean dead zones, food waste, species extinction, habitat destruction, world hunger, and many other environmental issues. My comics attempt to challenge the violent dogmatic beliefs we grew up with and encourage our society to make moral progress. 

If you have any more questions, feel free to ask them.
H1ghr1s3l0v3rStudent General Artist
Thank you very much for your detailed response, I will make sure to look further into it.

After reading, I largely understand why you cannot accept our stance. I’m actually not allergic to much at all, which makes it feasible for me to change up to a diet without meat or other animal-derived constituents. Though, even if people are all coming up with allergies when entering this topic as an “excuse” to keep their dietary ways, you’ll have to keep in mind that there are actually people who are affected by heavy, even borderline lethal allergies that will significantly narrow down their dietary choices. Whether you still see this as an excuse is up to you. People can all potentially become liars on the Internet, being protected by anonymity, thus I can understand if we don’t trust each other’s words fully.

Either way, I guess I can live with you not respecting the way most people still live. You stated your reasons elaborately and I fully appreciate that. We don’t seem to think on the entirely same level, though I am aiming to go for more sustainable living habits in general and support various campaigns against poaching, deforestation, for better hygiene standards in animal caretaking and so on, albeit only through petitions for now. I will be on the lookout for what more I can do, since my studies are very time-consuming at the moment.

Even though certain ideals can admittedly feel quite intrusive on oneself, I am trying to be as open as I can, and the reason I came was to see other people’s ideals and try understand them. Maybe I can try adopt them, for the greater good.

Also, I guess I can also thank you for not targeting me directly and staying fairly objective, unlike a certain other person. Sour attitudes can really deter conviction, speaking from experience.


Cheers and a have nice day.
PupavegHobbyist Digital Artist
Thank you, and good to hear that you're open-minded. It's good to hear that you're supporting campaigns against other forms of animal cruelty, like poaching and deforestation. But have you ever asked yourself the question of what the moral difference is between killing those animals and farm animals when they're both unnecessary? It both narrows down to killing for pleasure/profit, does it not? And before you answer that by replying with "endangered animals", are you aware of the fact that animal agriculture is the leading cause of species extinction and global deforestation (over 70% of all)? Before I stopped eating animals, I never thought about these double standards, I didn't even know. So if you genuinely care about the rainforests and endangered animals, you may want to think about this. Because even poachers fade in comparison to the tens of thousands(!) of species killed off every year by animal agriculture. Consuming animal products affects far more than just us, and is far beyond just a "dietary choice". It's the leading cause of why our planet and its beings are dying, and can, therefore - by definition - not be called a personal choice. That being said, being endangered is no moral reason to kill others. Humans are anything but endangered for example, and there are more white people than descendants of Native Americans. That doesn't make it more moral to kill a white person than to kill an Native American person. Just like how it doesn't make it more moral to kill a dog over a pyrrhura. Animals (humans included) are individuals, not collector's items whose moral value is based on their rarity. I have sources for the claims above regarding the environmental impact of animal agriculture listed in the artist description of these 2 submissions. Feel free to go through them: #246: It's unsustainable & #216: Fish.

To reply to your argument about allergies: there are people with certain allergies. By catering on cons I've met many people who have certain allergies. People can be allergic to the craziest specific things; wheat, beans (including soy), nuts, certain types of fruit, vegetables, or something very random like onions. I recognize that allergies can limit options for people, but I have yet to meet someone who is allergic to ALL food in the world, including all of the over 80,000 edible plants on the planet, everything but a burnt corpse, and therefore "can't" go vegan. It's nonsense. To say that one "needs" dairy is even more absurd since it's not even supposed to be a food group for humans in the first place (it's the baby milk from another species meant for their offspring, NOT for adult humans) and is therefore on par with claiming one needs to consume giraffe semen to survive. The same applies to the claim of "needing" eggs to survive. Eggs are not just unhealthy to eat but are extremely rare in nature, and the only reason why we can consume them on a regular basis today is because of genetic manipulation of animals to force them to lay an unnatural number of eggs. Therefore someone claiming their health depends on it is absurd. It's even illegal for companies to market them as healthy, because they aren't even nutritious, just big lumps of fat and cholesterol. So despite the fact that industries put millions of dollars into making people believe that their health depends on their products, nobody genuinely needs them.
#351: Eggs (2) by Pupaveg
I understand that many people who claim to need meat/dairy are ignorant about nutrition, and I've met many people who genuinely asked for advice to be vegan with their allergy, rather than use their allergy as an excuse to continue their old habits. But there are still plenty of people who assume they can't stop eating what they've been raised with because of allergies/conditions that have nothing to do with being vegan or not (wheat, soy, fruit, etc., leaky gut syndrome, eating disorders), or worse: allergies or conditions that are ironically caused and fueled by it (acid reflux, oral allergy syndrome, digestive issues etc.) and then get mad and pull the "ableist" card when someone politely explains that they actually don't need that type of food (soy for example) to be vegan. There are entire communities that have been plant-based since the beginning of time. Not a single one of those people suddenly wakes up one day claiming that they "need" to eat dead animals and their genetically manipulated secretions, because there is no multibillion-dollar industry in those areas that makes them believe they will die without their products. Animal products are the hardest thing of all to digest and fuel a great number of lifestyle diseases because of it. No human being "needs" them. I know so many vegans with allergies, and I have some myself, so it's painful to hear other people with those same allergies use it as an excuse to make themselves believe that they have no choice but to kill animals, when they actually do, just to make themselves feel better about the fact that they're killing innocent beings and the planet for their own pleasure just like the rest of the non-vegans do. That doesn't mean that it's as easy for everyone to go vegan though. If people with allergies don't know better than depending on the same 3 products (meat, dairy, eggs) for every meal, they may be ignorant about what they can eat. In vegan groups online there's plenty of people with the same allergies/conditions who can advise them on what to eat. It just takes a bit of research. And for some, it may be a little more inconvenient than for others, but not impossible. If someone really wants to stop exploiting animals and the planet, they'll find a way. If not, they'll find an excuse.

I'm trying to be as open as I can with my information. Animal agriculture is killing the planet, so it's important to spread this message in order to encourage positive change. And my way to spread it is through what I'm good at: drawing.
SachinAmateurArtistStudent General Artist

Cynthia, I just came up with a freaking amazing joke!

"If two vegans argue, is it still called beef?"

It's plant based, synthetic, vegan beef... But no, we do not blow up and kill billions of cows, young and old, nor burn down/deforestate entire football fields of forest every second because of an arguement.

Is Shawn's design based on Cloud from Final Fantasy 7? He really looks a great deal like him. 
Pink-PigguHobbyist General Artist
I love your works, please keep it up!