Deviation Actions

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Groups: Back Room

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This is a continued walkthrough of groups. This one covers the area where most of the communication occurs between mods: the Back Room.

Special thanks to =Raishuu for providing images from the Rules tab from #GimmeFeedback and #hq's recent blog [link], all other images are obtained through #devBUG

Points of interest:
:bulletpurple: The Bug Tracker is currently exclusive to #devBUG
:bulletpurple: The Log has been expanded to include statistics on recent group activity as explained in #hq's recent blog [link]
:bulletpurple: The groupies category will now be merged with the watchers category to remove confusion between the two: [link]
:bulletpurple: Individual blogs can be taken in and out of storage much like deviations
:bulletpurple: Favs drop down -- multiple clubs interface
:bulletpurple: Revamp of Founder Controls
:bulletpurple: Public/Private comments on Correspondence Items
:bulletpurple: Group mods are notified when users leave the group in the same way they are notified when a user joins a group (Action Item in group message center)

To cover in next issue
Group Creation
Widgets
Changes to structure (Groupies, bulletins, conversations)

Q&A with development staff
-- We can not answer many of your questions as we can not comment on the specifics of features that have not reached beta-testing status.
-- The groups system is in the beta-testing phase and many portions are subject to change or complete revision; no decisions are final unless otherwise stated.
-- [Note to readers: most of these statements were made in restricted areas and thus the links do not appear to work for users who do not have access to these areas]

Is there any idea when groups will be released that is more precise than "soon"? Either for Beta or officially?
beta, soon :P
[link] 10/28/09

What portions of the groups system are most susceptible to change right now? Will watchers of a group remain the only user list that is unlimited in attendance at the Basic group level?
It looks like watchers will be the only unlimited class, this seems fairly certain. Everything is pretty much subject to change though, we're all still working out the details.
[link] 10/28/09 [EDIT 11/24/09: Unlimited Members class added [link]]

Is there any word on the pricing structure? Are Pro groups still intended only for companies and are priced around $1000 per year?
The way the system is used will be taken into consideration and some adjustments will almost certainly be made even after the final release.
[link] 10/28/09

I have not heard much about pro groups in a while. I'm pretty sure that Basic and Super are going out before we revisit Pro groups - the feature set for pro isn't even defined yet...
[link] 10/28/09

On Correspondence Items, such as a join application, it is possible for a user to make one and send one, but once it is sent they cannot see the comments made by the admins on it while it is being approved or after it is rejected/approved. Are there plans to allow the submitter to see the comments?
we are contemplating implementing two threads. private (for group members to gossip) and private+submitter to correspond with applicant
[link] [link] 10/30/09 [As of 11/3/09, this feature has been implemented]

Will it be possible to designate permissions specifically for each user rather than for an entire group like watchers or Contributors? If I want one watcher, =uae4u, to be able to submit work, and another, =parallellogic, to not be able to, can I do that if they are both in the watchers class?
no. privileges are per role (class), not per user. there never will be a system to assign permissions to specific user.
[link] 11/4/09

there is no such thing as watchers class, this is a common misunderstanding. there are group members (broken up into classes such as founder, co-founder, moderator, contributor, custom) and than, there is any other deviant thats not a group member.

there is group member (in various role, however you wanna call them) and the there is everybody else on deviantart. you can choose to allow/accept contributons only from group members, or you can open it up to everyone, its your choice
[link] 11/4/09

Is it true that group conversion will be one way only? Once you convert a club into a group, you will never be able revert the group back into being a club?
yes, migration is irreversable as it removes content from userpage, and populates account with group specific pages and widgets
[link] 11/4/09

Will a group retain the subscription the club had previously? If a Super group subscription costs $120 per year and a club subscription costs $30 a year, then will a club that purchases a year subscription and immediately converts into a group retain the year-long subscription when they are a group?
likely. but club conversion will not run forever. its being made available for clubs formed prior groups release
[link] 11/6/09 [EDIT 12/12/09: Club to Group conversion will be avaialble until March 1st, 2010. New FAQ article: FAQ #414: I have a Premium Member club, how long do I get Super Group access for?]

What will happen to group News Articles? Given that users cannot :+fav: blogs like they can News Articles, will there be a way for groups to generate News Articles in a similar way to blogs where the author's username appears under the title of the article? When a group gets converted, will the past News Articles still be accessible through the group (like in the current profile page widget that lists the recent News Articles)?
articles will stay where they are, on news page. there is no news widget for groups, and none is planned. news is rather low impact and traffic section of the site. if anything we will enhance blogs to allow to collect them the future
[link] 11/11/09 [EDIT 1/31/10: Refer to the 1/30/10 post below, it appears that news features such as faving and featuring on one's profile page will be granted to blogs in the distant future]

Could you provide further insight into the eventual group creation process? What kind of information will need to be provided for a group to be created or converted from a club? Will a group need to provide updates on its operations in order to retain group status?
you'll see it soon enough. its simple :)
[link] 11/14/09 [EDIT 12/3/09: Please refer to #makeagroup and #convertaclub]

Are there plans to implement a search field for a group's gallery?
I don't know if this will be implemented or not - note that group galleries are quite different from regular users' galleries ... the art is not "by" the group and some groups might not even want their galleries to be searchable... I think it'll remain like this for now at least.
[link] 11/15/09

the gallery browse/search is on the roadmap but not gonna be available for initial release.
[link] 11/15/09

Will it be possible to hide 'Spam' comments and to block users through a group?
eventually, yes
[link] 12/1/09 [EDIT 1/31/10: The ability to mark GroupDesk notes & comments as spam and block users has been implemented]

Is the configuration of the 'Groups' widget for a user's profile page final, or can it change? Will there be a way of separating the groups you're a member of from the groups your an admin of within the Groups app?
I don't think it's the final version. The popup is pretty ghetto if you ask me, we can definitely improve that widget post-launch.
[link] 12/4/09

How many admins can be in a super group?
1 founder, 99 total admins, super, pro, basic - same limits
[link] 12/4/09

I'm an admin in #GimmeFeedback, but my duties have nothing to do with the submissions, so sending submission correspondence items to my folder for that group doesn't serve any purpose since I will never vote on those items. I propose a system where users can opt out of certain group related messages, much like the friends system allows us to do.
i agree completely, and that will be a focus (one of) of the serious message center overhaul project soonish
[link] 12/9/09

Is there any way to get confidential information/updates to your group's Members all at once without it being there to see for people who have not joined?
We wanna do it right, and we could not squeeze 'members' backroom into this release. it will be coming in next iteration of group improvements for sure [link] 12/9/09 [EDIT 1/31/10: A Members-Only Area is in development]

The FAQ (401) states that everything from clubs gets converted over to the new groups platform, yet I can't find the old club notes and I will need to delete all the old club submissions and re-upload them through the group. Are there any plans to fix this?
[=parallellogic 12/11/09 There are two widgets that currently address these issues. Both can be found by going to the group's Back Room, clicking the "Edit Page" button and selecting the "Misc" widget folder. The first is called "Ye Olde Notes Center" which will permit you to access the club-notes from before the conversion. The second widget is called "Gallery Migration"; when edited, this widget will allow you to supply a url/thumbCode for each of the club deviations that links to the original artist's submission. This app will save time and prevent sending message to the group's watchers that would otherwise be generated by re-uploading all the old club-submissions as group-contributions]

Bug Report: FAQ 401 states that every forum post will be converted from the old club to the new group, yet this [link] is the second instance I've come across of users not retaining the original forums during the conversion
FAQ is wrong. journal forums are not migrated (as are other minor things like shoutbox, webcam, deviousinfo, etc)
[link] 12/14/09 [=parallellogic: Also, as mentioned previously, news will not be preserved either. Scraps are also lost. Custom Boxes are still available (1 for Basic Groups, Unlimited for Super) but the data in any pre-existing Custom Boxes that are not on the group's Profile page is lost in the conversion. Data in Custom boxes from subscribed clubs is saved during the conversion -- the widgets are removed, but when the custom boxes are re-added, the widgets appear populated with the old data]

Bug Report: When I first started sending invites, it would let me have 25 pending invites before I got that "limit" message, but now I can only send 11. Is this an error?
its not a bug, its throttled depending on ratio of accepted invitations
[link] 12/15/09

The algorithm is not set in stone. It's still a beta release. Preventing loads of annoying "spam invites" from the many enthusiastic new group admins without taking away the ability to invite people was an issue that was considered with serious deliberation but the implementation may be adjusted to be less restrictive to responsible groups while still reigning in the potential for bothersome invite spam.

If you were on Facebook a year or two ago you surely remember the wide spread "app invite spam" that grew to ridiculous proportions before adequate controls were put in place to limit the impact on user experience.
[link] 12/16/09

It is currently possible to submit a deviation twice to a group and the group gets notified twice with two identical correspondence items. The second CI serves no purpose since once the first CI is closed, the second cannot be closed. Can duplicate Correspondence Items be removed from the group message center?
this is something that is fairly difficult to implement .. not sure if that will happen. pending submissons are not eazily searchable by their content
[link] 12/19/09

I'm an admin in #GimmeFeedback, but my duties have nothing to do with the submissions, so sending submission correspondence items to my folder for that group doesn't serve any purpose since I will never vote on those items. I propose a system where users can opt out of certain group related messages, much like the friends system allows us to do.
technology wise, its not possible with current message center
[link] 12/22/09

Hi, maybe adding a group quota for members to limit the amount of submitted stuff and prevent flooding the message center of people would be nice.
We've gotten this suggestion a lot, it's definitely a most-wanted feature and we'll likely implement that at some point soon after launch.
[link] 12/22/09

For the Random Group (available in the Diversions section of the dAv6 nav bar) will there be any activity filters? Or is just a random group from the set of all groups? The current random user button only pulls from online users to ensure the users selected isn't 'dead', I'm just curious if there is a similar setting for this feature.
I'll make it pick among groups that have been active in the past 48 hours [=parallellogic groups that have not accepted/denied any correspondence items in the last 2 days are marked as 'inactive']
[link] 12/28/09

Ok, so using the correspondence items generated by the group? So if a every group had the Weekly Stats widget shown and you could see that there have been no correspondence items in the last two days in any category, then the group is considered inactive right?
It's based on the group stats, some of it is used to generate what's in the weekly stats. I can't remember the list of actions that generate entries in these stats, but it's pretty wide. They're mostly content-related though, rather than based on what you see in the action log (i.e. admins rearranging widgets, permissions, etc.). [link] 12/29/09

Could you talk a bit more about the club-deviation conversion to group-submission process? Will favs on the old deviations be added on to the new submissions? Will comments be moved as well?
[=parallellogic 12/28/09 Favs and comments are lost in the conversion from club-submission to group-contribution]

Will forum posts in the private forum (from subscribed clubs) be converted into conversation topics in groups?
[=parallellogic 12/28/09 They will not be converted]

So what's the difference between "Has Full Control" and "Can Add/Edit/Delete Most Content". If Co-founders have the latter setting enabled, what can they not do that the Founder can?
full control means they can edit the privs for that app + everything else and most means they can edit everything except for the privs for the app :) [link] 12/28/09

Raise the limit for the number of admins (currently 99 for both basic and super groups) in super groups. Moar features equals moar profits :dummy:
sorry, this one is really not gonna happen
[link] 12/30/09

In addition to the public forums idea someone else suggested, it'd be nice to have shoutboxes, at least for super groups. I realise there are chatrooms, but those are less effective for smaller groups and people can't see messages posted before joining.
we are not building a group shoutbox

between forums and chat in the future, we see no reason for another widget to maintain [link] 1/5/10

Super groups are limited to 80 thumbs in blogs [link] 1/17/10

Why can't I, as an admin, leave user-visible comments on fav contributions like I can with submissions?
cause there is no correspondence message sent to the submitter for the fave .. so the have no way to access those comments [link] 1/19/10

The notes center has the ability to add folders and file notes into them, I feel a similar system should be in place for the GroupDesk
We are improving the group notes system - we won't be implementing traditional folders but some type of organization will be provided (Tags, perhaps?) [link] 1/20/10

Deleting GroupDesk notes is a common suggestion; since we can hide Bulletins and Conversations can we hide notes as well?
working on it [link] 1/20/10 [EDIT 1/31/10: GroupDesk notes can be marked as 'Spam' which effectively hides them]

Hello, can groups accept scraps?
Type in "gallery:username/*" into the search box (without quotes) [link] 1/21/10

How do we allow certain admins to hide comments and not others?
next sync will enable hiding on any comment in a group, even on devmeet, polls, notes, correspondence threads, etc.
the ability to hide, report as spam is determined by 'can-edit' privs of the application widget that owns the comment. so, if you can edit blog, if you can vote on submission message, if you can reply to notes - means you can hide comments on them. if not then no [link] 1/22/10

Group news articles?
there will not be group news. period. news/journals-blogs merger is entirely separate project, once completed the blogs would have all the 'newsy' features currently desired. [link] 1/30/10

I'm making a poll for the most popular suggestions for groups, any ideas?
please do not include things in the poll that have next to none chance of being implemented in a forceable future. news, user-style-notes, private polls, etc - those have far bigger dependencies than groups project, those are big subsystems in need of complete overhaul before groups platform can tap in and interoperate with them. Before groups can work with another deviant-art system, that system needs to understand a concept of not belonging to a user profile, and supporting permissioned access. those and many others dont, and enabling them to do so requires a complete re-architecture [link] 1/30/10

Can we have the ability to add custom folders to the GroupDesk notes center? The current Notes Center has that ability, why not the GroupDesk?
Won't Fix [link] 1/31/10

Will the "Members-Only" app will be a Super group exclusive app? Or will it be for all groups?
I think all groups but I can't say for sure about that. maybe just more appealing for super groups' version [link] 1/31/10

We can't convert a club after March 1st?
i've just checked with $chix0r and she says that you will still be able to convert a club but it will cost you (she wouldn't say how much >.>) [link] 1/31/10

Two submissions were sent to #VarietyClub. I declined the first two submissions and then when the member tried to submit a third, they were shown an error that stated that they had tried to go over the 2-submissions-per-week limit I had set for the members class. I presume this is an error since none of their work was successfully posted to the group and thus wouldn't count against their submitted-to-the-group quota.
if the submission is withdrawn then it won't count towards the limit. rejection by the group does not count is withdrawn. [link] 2/3/10

Conversation with site staff...
Oh, and stacks are getting a major do over again soon, but sorry cant show it :( [link] 2/19/10 [referring to showing the design early before the beta-release]

Browsing #devBUG comments...
[Concerning the development of a new Affiliations widget, a section for "Outgoing Affiliation Requests" and "Incoming Affiliation Requests" has been added to the Admin Area >> Log page] [link] 2/21/10

How do I get additional key words to be applied to my group so that my group comes up in the search but the words don't appear in the group's description?
Use <abbr="tags go here"><b></b></abbr> [link] 2/26/10

I want to delete Featured folders from Gallery and Faves. I tried to rename them and turn into a normal folder, but it is not allowed.
They are part of the implementation, not likely to change any time too soon. The featured folders act as the "root" of your gallery and collections - their submission limit settings are inherited by the other folders. Allowing them to be deleted would cause havoc. [link] 2/26/10

--

Currently In Development
LAST UPDATED 2/9/10
:bulletblue: Affiliations Widget
:bulletblue: Members Only Area (polls and forums expected but not verified)
:bulletblue: Chip In for group subscription (This feature is completely coded and is awaiting legal clearance before being released)

Nearing Completion
These are features that are currently in Alpha Testing and *will* be released to the groups system (general public) soon (within a few weeks)
:bulletblue: Submission Cap (limit the number of submissions members can contribute per time period) - this feature is currently in Alpha Testing - the feature will enable admins to limit the number of submissions to Gallery/Favs as well as each folder independently. Submissions range from <1-10 or Unlimited> per <1 day, 1 week, or 1 month>.
:bulletblue: Revamped Group Submission System (Revamped User Interface, Multiple selection, Full browse experience - with categories and newest/popular, Specific folders on your own gallery/faves, No more alert() errors/messages, Automatic resizing - to take advantage of your mighty monitors, Choose to see more thumbs per-page [link] 2/9/10)

--

Memorable Quotes:

you guys want option for everything [link] (it's rather true when you look at all the suggestions as a whole)

you guys never get tired asking for more settings, then complain about UI looking like control panel of the nuclear power plant :) [link]

screwing with margins on the blog page seems to make the problem come and go. it's one of those IE heisenbugs [link]

--

Questions and Comments greatly encouraged :)
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Ravimishra085's avatar
how to approve an submission art request... ? can anybody share this information , i got a message on my new group of- art pending to get approval ... message , how do i accept it .. my group is small and i really fixed on maintaining the idea of why i created the group , i dont want to mess it up so want most of the controls by myself , i can add my photos and something i call my art to the category i created in my gallery . and i can add the art of different artist to favorite folder but on submitting the art to a specific category , i just get a message in my group of art pending for approval , how to approve it and place it in the specified folder is what i want to know ... if some body knows please share the knowledge with me .. 

thank you ..

Titan-Adopts's avatar
question! how do i let other deviants join?
parallellogic's avatar
Refer to the "Members" section here:
Groups Introduction by parallellogic
space---kitten's avatar
I have a question.
I keep trying to set the permissions so that the Founder (me) can invite someone else to be founder, but everytime I try to save the settings, then go to invite someone, it says I cannot.
Why?
parallellogic's avatar
On the group's front page under the avatar, there's a "Member" drop down.  If you select "Leave the group", you will be prompted to select a new Founder.  You won't be removed from the group, contrary to the option label, just demoted.
jennystokes's avatar
Excellent.
One question which I cannot find?

Is there a Rule which says:  All Staff have to be displayed on Group Profile page?
parallellogic's avatar
~All Staff
DeviantArt Staff?  Or you mean group moderators?  There's no rule concerning that that I'm aware of.
jennystokes's avatar
Staff/Founders on Groups?

There should be one?
parallellogic's avatar
A group is required to have a Founder, yes.
jennystokes's avatar
Yes it is..............I found what I was looking for. Thank you :wave:
Cupycakey's avatar
How do you delete a group?
parallellogic's avatar
Under the group's avatar there's a "Member" drop down.  At the bottom of that drop down is a "Close the group" option.
Furry-stylist's avatar
How do you add a group chatroom?
parallellogic's avatar
You can create your own chat channel and add a link to it to your group
chat.deviantart.com/
Furry-stylist's avatar
It won't load, do I try on the computer?
parallellogic's avatar
I know it works on the PC, I don't know about mobile. The chat's a really old system, so I doubt it's mobile compliant.
Furry-stylist's avatar
Good point thanks!
Furry-stylist's avatar
Thanks! I've been trying to work that out for ages!
parallellogic's avatar
Do not advertise on my page
rainbowsoxzy's avatar
how did u link to the word in the description
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