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:iconlibra1010:
Libra1010 Featured By Owner Edited Dec 9, 2014
 An interesting thought that struck me after re-reading THE WORLD OF ICE AND FIRE; according to the description of their society provided by Grand Maester Martin the Ironborn are quite probably the most ethnically-diverse populations in the Seven Kingdoms (despite being one of the most rabidly xenophobic when it comes to accepting influences from other cultures courtesy of The Old Way and the Faith of the Drowned God), thanks to their custom of 'Salt Wives' their peculiar institution Thraldom and their far-flung raiding expeditions.

 Which would seem to imply that there is at least a significant population of Ironborn with at least partial Summer Island, Naathi and possibly even Rhoynish heritage (from The Stepstones - I would be surprised if one of the short-lived Kings of the Narrow Sea who followed The Rogue Prince were not an Iron Islander, possibly even The Red Kraken himself); it is interesting to wonder if the obsession of the Ironborn with maintaining the freedom of their culture from outside influences derives from the need to keep these diverse influences focussed on savaging their neighbours and other foreign victims, rather than one another.

 I hope that this speculation does not bore you!Sweating a little... 
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:iconoznerol-1516:
Oznerol-1516 Featured By Owner Dec 12, 2014  Hobbyist Digital Artist
It's a good speculation, because the true Ironborn blood would be very diluted, however thralls and salt-wives make a good chunk of the Ironborn smallfolk, I suppose nobility keeps its bloodline "cleaner" by marrying into each other. Probably another reason they despise salt-born sons and thralls is that they aren't full-blooded Ironborn. However we have examples of Ironborn marrying outside their families, as the King who married a Lannister.
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:iconlibra1010:
Libra1010 Featured By Owner Dec 12, 2014
 Very true - although that was a marriage that did not end very happily as we well know; I do wonder if the Ironborn contempt for the folk of the Green Lands is racial or more cultural though (for I suspect that a case might be made for either being closer to the Truth).

 I must admit that it would be interesting to see an illustration of Ironborn showing the relatively diverse ethnic composition of their population; perhaps an image of one of the Black Kings or the Lord Reapers with their Salt Sons?

 Stay Well Master Oznerol - I hope that you too will have an opportunity to enjoy the latest HOBBIT movie sooner rather than later!:) (Smile)   
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:iconoznerol-1516:
Oznerol-1516 Featured By Owner Dec 21, 2014  Hobbyist Digital Artist
However I don't want to ruin your expectations, but it's pretty unlikely I do an illustration about Ironborn, their culture "confuses" me, I wouldn't know how to paint them: viking would be too obvious, Late Medieval doesn't fit them, neither a Russian/Varingian style... They are a mess, and their culture isn't appealing to me either, in fact I must confess I call them "Ironmorons". I had to be sincere, dearest Libra.

The Hobbit movie was a great fiasco, mostly atrocious. I only liked: Thorin's descent to madness and Dáin's design. The many plot-holes killed my excitement.
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:iconlibra1010:
Libra1010 Featured By Owner Dec 21, 2014
 I have to admit that I thoroughly enjoyed it, even where this adaption zigged where I would have zagged; flaws and all it was far, far too much fun to watch for me to dislike it! (I hope this revelation has not ruined your good opinion of my taste in art).:o (Eek) 

 Concerning the Ironborn, I must agree that they are a mighty frustrating bunch of pirate-lovers, and I agree that (a) purely Viking influence on their appearance would be a bit TOO obvious (b) borrowing from high fashions of the Late Medieval period would not suit the culture for they are too little influenced by the maritime and not the continental (also that the Rus do not suit them - I would argue that Medieval Russia makes a much better model for The North, given the similarity in climate and landscape).

 However I do have some hopes that I can help you find a style out of history that I think would suit the Ironborn very well; for a long time now I have tended to imagine the Iron Isles as very British (as little islands on the very fringes of a mighty continent that remain proudly separatist and yet intimately connected to their neighbours, as well as prone to produce reavers in frighteningly large numbers - not to mention very damp, dreary and unpleasant little islands indeed). The revelations in THE WORLD OF ICE AND FIRE that The Lannisters have long been the nemesis of The Ironborn has not given me cause to think otherwise nor has anything else.

 It therefore occurred to me to hunt out influences from the British Islands and I think that I have found a good one - back in the day, after the Viking Age and well into the Middle Ages there were so many warlike and seaworthy folk in the little Islands off Scotland (like the Hebrides and the Orkney Islands), as well as along the Highland coasts that when a leader was able to unite them he became something like a King and well able to defy even the King of Scots when he chose to. He was in effect as much a sea-dog and a pirate king as any Viking, for all that he ruled after the Viking time was over and done with he too counted his power in the longships and the men who sailed in them.

 They called him THE LORD OF THE ISLES - and I think that this picture makes it very clear why I think he and his people make a fine model for the Iron Islands.

I hope that the image above makes my point for me, but I shall add a link to the appropriate Wikipedia article and hope that it will help convince you!

 The Spanish version of the article seems to give you only the bare bones of the tale - the article in English is rather longer.

 Feliz Navidad amigo!:) (Smile) 
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:iconoznerol-1516:
Oznerol-1516 Featured By Owner Edited Dec 21, 2014  Hobbyist Digital Artist
But I plan to make a portrait of Dáin on his pig... And maybe something LotR-esque.
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:iconlibra1010:
Libra1010 Featured By Owner Nov 12, 2014
 Master Oznerol, given your habitual excellence when it comes to the depiction of Jewellery it has occurred to me that I would love to see you try to design crowns for the Seven Kingdoms of Old - well, all except the North since the Crown of the North has actually been described in canon! - and it occurs to me that this might make for an interesting challenge!

 If you like this idea, please let me know - I actually have a few thoughts concerning the Falcon Crown of Mountain and Vale, as well as the Crown of Casterly Rock and will be happy to share these ideas along with the others that I am working upon should you be interested.

 Stay Well!:) (Smile) 
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:iconoznerol-1516:
Oznerol-1516 Featured By Owner Nov 13, 2014  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Throw your suggestions!
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:iconlibra1010:
Libra1010 Featured By Owner Nov 14, 2014
 Well concerning the old crowns of the Seven Kingdoms I believe that only one has actually been described (The Crown of the North - a bronze band cut with runes, iron points like swords set around this circlet) while others have been mentioned only by name - The Stag Crown of the Storm-lands, The Driftwood Crown of the Iron Islands, The Falcon Crown of Mountain and Vale - while we are told only the nature of certain other crowns - the crown of The Reach is described as a wreath of flowers in peacetime and as a crown of thorns during wartime, The Driftwood crown as being assembled out of that which the sea leaves on the shore built to suit each kings individual tastes.

 This being said we do not even have names for the Crown of the Rock, the Crown of the Riverlands (when not being ruled by outsiders from beyond The Trident) and given that Dorne is a principality, not a Kingdom, we cannot even be sure that The Prince or Princess would wear a crown.


Given this, I hope you will forgive me for producing suggestions more detailed in some cases than others!


 The Crown of the Rock - Given that the King in the West ruled over the Kingdom of the Rock, it seems logical to include some reference to the great Stronghold of House Lannister (especially given that Louren the Lion seems to have won his Kingdom by virtue of his reputation as one who successfully defended the Westerland against the depredations of a necromancer); with this in mind I would suggest rendering the crown of the West as bearing a resemblance to a Castle Wall, albeit sculpted out of gold rather than hewn into the rocks.

 Something rather like THIS perhaps, albeit in Red-and-Gold, possibly with lions or rubies added - certainly it should be huge, heavy and rather opulent.


 The Crown of the Reach - We are told that the crown of the Reach was wreathed together out of flowers during times of peace and you would scarcely believe just how many possible references cropped up when I typed 'Flower Crown - Men' into google.

 I chose to link HERE because this particular crown and this particular model manage to look REGAL rather than slightly twee - it looks like a Crown for a King, rather than a Party hat, although I suspect that a few additional roses would not go amiss!

Concerning the war-crown of the Reach we are told that it was always rendered in metal (Bronze before the Andals, Steel thereafter); I suspect that this would have been worn over a war-helmet so you if you draw up this particular crown it might make sense to add the helmet rather than make those who view this piece wonder how the Green Kings went un-punctured!

 I trust that THIS will suffice as a working model, although I think you know best what sort of helmet would match this ornament.


The Stag Crown - It seems hard to imagine that this particular crown would not feature stylised antlers in some form (and its easy to see King Robert's crown as depicted on GAME OF THRONES as being drawn from the model of his Durrandon Ancestors) but I would suggest that it might be interesting to depict Amber, rather than any gems being used to ornament this crown (given the availability of such things in the Storm-lands).

 Here's the model I like best, although as I noted it might be interesting to work Amber and some allusion to the namesake of the Storm Kings into the design - lightning, rains, perhaps even the faces of that daughter of the Divine and Durran who won her heart?


 The Driftwood Crown - I defer to your creativity in this Master Oznerol, for I have no earthly idea how one turns Driftwood into a Crown ...

It seems that others do not share my weakness, however - just type 'Driftwood Crown' into a Google Images search.
 

The Crown of the Trident - Master Oznerol, I suspect that there were MANY crowns of the Trident, at least as many as there were dynasties who claimed to rule over that strife-torn domain. One idea that has occurred to me is that in place of a cross or a fleur-de-lys Kings of the Trident would of course use a series of small tridents to encircle their crowns.

 Alternatively they might use one large trident at the very front of the crown, while setting small stylised weighing scales elsewhere around the headband (in memory of Benedict the Bold, founder of House Justman) or perhaps even a stylised Hammer in memory of Tristifer IV.


 Dorne - I fear that I have no clever ideas when it comes to Dorne; I would greatly appreciate your own suggestions for possible designs, especially where I have been unable to provide any of my own.


The Falcon Crown - I must admit that it was my thinking about this particular crown that persuaded me to suggest the idea of depicting the Old Crowns of the Seven Kingdoms to you (The Vale of Arryn has long exerted a particularly strong hold over my imagination and THE WORLD OF ICE AND FIRE has only strengthened that grip still further!).

 At first I imagined that the crown would be in silver with stylised falcons in place of the Fleur-de-Lys, possibly studded with moonstones - for obvious reasons! - but then I searched Google for a Falcon Crown and found ...

 … THIS.

 Now I know that the crown linked to above is not at all Medieval, but I think it an excellent inspiration for the design of the Falcon Crown for obvious reasons! Now I would suggest using silver, blue and white for the Falcon Crown of Mountain and Vale - I would also like to suggest including seven seven-pointed stars in the design, perhaps carved into the headband, as an allusion to the Battle of Seven Stars and the favour of The Seven by which it was won for Ser Artys Arryn.

 Perhaps one could use the style of THIS crown as an extra influence - albeit replace the cross with a Falcon - with one of the Seven depicted in each of the panels making up the crown - for one would wish to stress the Age of this crown, which was said to have been worn for over a thousand years before the King who Flew

I'm tempted to suggest that you make this crown part of a helmet, but I thought that might bring the design a bit TOO close to the Winged Crown of Gondor.  


 Well these are my ideas Master Oznerol and I hope you like at least one or two of them - I would also love to hear your own ideas and suggestions for the design of the Crowns that once held sway over the Seven Kingdoms!

 I'll stop sharing my thoughts at this point for now, before I get to wondering what a Westerosi King List based on Matthew Paris' depiction of various English Kings would look like!

 Stay Well Master Oznerol!;) (Wink) 
  
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:iconoznerol-1516:
Oznerol-1516 Featured By Owner Nov 19, 2014  Hobbyist Digital Artist
I did a sketch of every crown, including Dorne. I think it's almost definitive and will become a digital artwork soon.

1-Rock: I used castles, golden castles crowning a circlet heavily inlaid with pearls, rubies and other gems (somewhat looking like an old Carolingian crown with the castles added to it in later date)
2-Vale: Uses florons, like the medieval crowns, however instead of crosses schematic falcons, heavily inlaid with pearls and zaphires, made mostly of silver instead gold. Maybe a touch of bronze?
3-Stormlands: Pretty stern but imposing. Resembling somewhat the Iron Crown of Lombardy, an intended archaism, to symbolize the ancient origins of the Durrandon dynasty.
4-Riverlands: Curiosly resembles somewhat the Vale one. It is heavily decorated, a pretentious crown, but the diadem is decorated with a filigree resembling water in movement or waves.
5-Crown of thorns. I attached it to a simple  Normal-style half helm. Thought it had to be archaic and old looking, stern like a rose's thorn. It was the only helmet that looked well in combination with the thorns, severe and imposing.
6-Dorne. I had a good idea with this one. It's a diadem, with solar disks, but the top half is like Constantia of Aragon's crown in Palermo, with added details. It looks really nice. The idea behind it is that it should be worn by either women or man, looking fine in both.
7-Ironborn-So weird I'm still figuring out HOW to do it.
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