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Lucid dreams

Journal Entry: Tue May 22, 2012, 1:50 AM

A few days ago I had two lucid dreams. After the second lucid dream I wrote everything down so I wouldn't forget because this seems interesting to share.


I don't remember the first lucid dream. All I remember is being afraid because I realized I was dreaming and I didn't enjoy the experience. I tried hard to wake up, which I did after around 10 seconds. I then went back to sleep, not expecting to experience a lucid dream again (but really, the highest potential to get a lucid dream is when you wake up in the morning and go back to sleep).



When the second dream starts I'm initially not aware that I'm dreaming, so at this point it's a regular dream. I'm sitting behind the table in the living room of my parents' house and the mother of my sister's old school friend is there for some reason. I don't remember who was in the room besides her but it was probably one or both of my parents. I don't have an idea what everyone was doing, either. Suddenly the woman walks up to me and introduces herself. I want to tell her that I know her as we've met several times before, but for some reason I can't speak normal words. I'm speaking in a non-existing language, or rather just trying hard to pronounce the words I know but they just wouldn't come out. The woman and one of my parents were looking at me strangely. This disturbed me greatly and it was at this point I realized I was dreaming. I tried to wake up again but this time it took more time. I first managed to wake my right side up while my left side was still in the dream. That last bit was perhaps most disturbing to me because I can't even explain how just one side can be sleeping. It's not like one side was paralyzed; I was really still half in the dream.



This also reminds me I had a disturbing experience a few weeks ago. I suddenly realized I was sleeping (not dreaming) and not breathing. I fought to wake up so I could breath again. I panicked in the moment but managed to force my mind awake, open my eyes and take a breath. I suspect this was a half-lucid dream because I can't imagine I really wasn't breathing.



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:iconfreyalibra3:
Freyalibra3 Featured By Owner Dec 10, 2013  Hobbyist
Hi! I have recently been researching lucid dreams and I am quite excited by the idea. I've been practising, but I've not actually had one yet. The part where you mentioned not being able to speak in your dream, I know how you feel. I once had sleep paralysis for about 30 seconds and I could hear my mum shouting me but I couldn't answer back. I felt awful! See, I really want to lucid dream, yet I'm scared of getting sleep paralysis again. I know that it only lasts for a few seconds, but it's really scary. So, sorry for telling you all this random information, but I just wondered if you could maybe help me? ( Sorry, if you read this and say " What, are you crazy?" I wondered whether or not you'd be able to help!) :)  
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:iconmartinsilvertant:
MartinSilvertant Featured By Owner Jan 14, 2014  Professional General Artist
Set your alarm clock early in the morning, wake up and go back to sleep. You're more susceptible to lucid dreams then according to a friend of mine. I think it might work because at times I stayed up for 2 days and this also makes you susceptible to strange experiences, so I guess anything that messes up your sleep schedule might work. What you want to achieve is to remain conscious during REM sleep, of which the longest phase is near the morning.

Although I think you can train the ability to stay lucid during dreams, perhaps there are genetics to it. As a kid I had lucid dreams regularly, or rather lucid nightmares. Now I have a lucid dream occasionally and often I'm not even fully lucid. I really haven't mastered lucid dreaming as some have. The use of cannabis also disturbs my ability to dream visually.
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:iconfreyalibra3:
Freyalibra3 Featured By Owner Jan 21, 2014  Hobbyist
Thank you. I'll have to give it a go! 
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:iconbalthasarcraft:
balthasarcraft Featured By Owner Feb 8, 2013  Professional Artisan Crafter
"I first managed to wake my right side up while my left side was still in the dream. That last bit was perhaps most disturbing to me because I can't even explain how just one side can be sleeping. It's not like one side was paralyzed; I was really still half in the dream."

Not as unusual as you might think. I have had a similar experience (which was not fun). I woke up paralyzed, but what was weird was, I still had access to my dream body. It was like it was an overlay on my existing body. I could see the room through my dream eyes, though it was a bit distorted, despite seeming very real. But my waking eyes were shut. I could move my dream limbs, but I couldn't move my physical limbs. I could reach up with my dream arm into empty space, but my real arm was stuck. So every time I tried to drag my limbs out of the paralysis, I only ended up picking up the dream limbs. I tried waking up like four times, and was convinced each time I'd succeeded, only to find I was just messing with the dream. Eventually I got it and snapped out. I'm sure it all lasted only a few minutes, but it was really unpleasant.

You were asking about persistency in dreaming in the comment string. I'll share some stories. The best one I have is a girl I know (whose honesty I trust) who has a persistent library she can return to on command in her dreams. The interesting part is that it's there even when she isn't. Other people have visited it in their dreams and reported on it to her accurately--even while she's awake.

My boyfriend, who is rather no-nonsense and isn't even much of a lucid dreamer by his own accounts routinely dreams of a specific place. He ends up there every couple of years and has no idea why. The place is always the same and has persistent landmarks. I have a similar place, but mine is an alternate version of NYC. As far as i can tell, it's always the same alternate. I've been back to shops and clubs and walked down the same nonexistent streets multiple times.

And once I met this guy IN a dream who had a nice mansion. He told me that he was someone else sleeping somewhere else and dreaming, and that the mansion is persistent. He has it every night he wants to hang out there. It's only the scenery outside the windows that changes, because he moves the mansion, like himself, through dreamspace. Sometimes according to this person, the mansion (and him) move through others' dreamspace. That day, the scenery happened to be the scenery I was walking through. He told me anyone can maintain these persistent things, but I have never been able to do it.

As far as reading books goes, all I get is gibberish too. It's like being dyslexic and trying to read foreign language gibberish that is moving on the page. But I can "read" books by seeing--and sometimes living--their stories, and then "popping" back out. Same thing with films.
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:iconmartinsilvertant:
MartinSilvertant Featured By Owner Mar 27, 2013  Professional General Artist
Not as unusual as you might think.
First off, apology for the late response. I always appreciate long messages, but I'm not always in the mood to take the time to compose my messages, especially not lately when I'm only online sporadically. Some weeks have passed and I actually learned more about sleep paralysis since. Or maybe even before the message; my memory isn't great right now. Either way, I recently saw a documentary about alien abduction. I usually hate documentaries like that, but this one tried to explain strange phenomena with science, rather than to speculate about alien visitors. Apparently people who have experiences of alien abductions have actually experienced sleep paralysis. In this strange state you can see beings around you and feel like everything is actually happening. According to the documentary sleep paralysis generally occurs at least once or twice in anyone's life. I've recently been experiencing several minor sleep paralyses. I wake up just seconds after I realize what's going on. It's odd that it took 23 years for me to experience my first one, and then it happens more frequently. I guess you can train it, or my sleeping schedule is just sufficiently distorted to make these things possible.

Eventually I got it and snapped out. I'm sure it all lasted only a few minutes, but it was really unpleasant.
I can imagine. During a sleep paralysis I don't believe I think clearly, and so I automatically get this feeling of panic, just as with the last major lucid dream I had.

The interesting part is that it's there even when she isn't. Other people have visited it in their dreams and reported on it to her accurately--even while she's awake.
How can you verify this though? I don't think I would remember my dream clearly enough to trust cross-referencing my experience with someone else. I think the potential that you influence each other is high; that you essentially find yourself in agreement with the other person because she puts images in your mind by talking about it. Ehh but that's not a satisfactory argument. If you can focus images during a conversation, it doesn't seem a big stretch that some people visit the location of your dream. Still, until I experience it myself I will remain very skeptical. I do find these stories fascinating, but I can't present them as truth.

I've been back to shops and clubs and walked down the same nonexistent streets multiple times.
Do you reckon you're actually visiting a place, or did you just remember a virtual location well? The latter is actually a bit weird still, to remember something which came from your own head in the first place. I guess that's the play between your consciousness and unconsciousness.

But I can "read" books by seeing--and sometimes living--their stories, and then "popping" back out.
Have you verified this? For example by diving into a book and actually read it the next day while you're awake to verify that your dream is genuinely the story from the book. Or do you think it's just an expansion on your dream, where you just use a book to continue fabricating your story?
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:iconbalthasarcraft:
balthasarcraft Featured By Owner Mar 28, 2013  Professional Artisan Crafter
" I always appreciate long messages, but I'm not always in the mood to take the time to compose my messages, especially not lately when I'm only online sporadically."

I totally get that. This is one reason I usually do better with IM ;)

"Apparently people who have experiences of alien abductions have actually experienced sleep paralysis."

I vividly saw a strange woman in my room when I had sleep paralysis once! I will never forget how real she looked.

"It's odd that it took 23 years for me to experience my first one, and then it happens more frequently."

I didn't get sleep paralysis until a few years ago, after which it increased in frequency too.

"I do find these stories fascinating, but I can't present them as truth."

Indeed, I can't present it as truth. I "believe" the story about the library, but I don't know it, for sure. I have a lot of trust in the person in question and in her observational abilities--and her honesty, more importantly. I have had things like this happen to me too though. At least twice I am quite positive someone shared a dream with me. I let -them- do all the talking, and they described to me exact things--even things I said and the tone in which I said them, which were non-intuitive. So this adds to my accumulating evidence.

"If you can focus images during a conversation ..."

How do you mean? I have a game called "guess the fruit" which I play with people. I vividly imagine a fruit and "place" it on the desk next to the person, and have them guess what it is. I use fruits because there are a finite but reasonable number of them, and they involve all the senses, not just sight. I'll never forget the time someone guessed my pomegranate in one shot, and I guessed his kumquat in one go right after.

"Do you reckon you're actually visiting a place, or did you just remember a virtual location well? The latter is actually a bit weird still, to remember something which came from your own head in the first place."

I honestly have no idea. I always wonder myself. I also find it strange to think I could vividly recall something I invented. There's no reason to assume it's impossible, but that's one of the reasons I am so fascinated when I get into "real time" thinking while lucid dreaming. I can look at a surface with some randomness to it, like grain in wood, and then look away, and look back, and it looks the same--like it would in real life. You can't memorize all the grains in wood you see in the flesh, but when you look back, you certainly are like "yes, I remember that knot, and that one there." It's just like that sometimes in dreams. I find that quite amazing!

"Have you verified this? For example by diving into a book and actually read it the next day while you're awake to verify that your dream is genuinely the story from the book. Or do you think it's just an expansion on your dream, where you just use a book to continue fabricating your story?"

Funny, but I never even asked myself this. Since I am dyslexic in dreams, it's not like I know titles or authors. Never even thought to look for the books in a library like they might exist in our world. I do think though that it's usually a tool to continue fabricating the story.
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:iconbalthasarcraft:
balthasarcraft Featured By Owner Mar 28, 2013  Professional Artisan Crafter
" I always appreciate long messages, but I'm not always in the mood to take the time to compose my messages, especially not lately when I'm only online sporadically."

I totally get that. This is one reason I usually do better with IM ;)

"Apparently people who have experiences of alien abductions have actually experienced sleep paralysis."

I vividly saw a strange woman in my room when I had sleep paralysis once! I will never forget how real she looked.

"It's odd that it took 23 years for me to experience my first one, and then it happens more frequently."

I didn't get sleep paralysis until a few years ago, after which it increased in frequency too.

"I do find these stories fascinating, but I can't present them as truth."

Indeed, I can't present it as truth. I "believe" the story about the library, but I don't know it, for sure. I have a lot of trust in the person in question and in her observational abilities--and her honesty, more importantly. I have had things like this happen to me too though. At least twice I am quite positive someone shared a dream with me. I let -them- do all the talking, and they described to me exact things--even things I said and the tone in which I said them, which were non-intuitive. So this adds to my accumulating evidence.

"If you can focus images during a conversation ..."

How do you mean? I have a game called "guess the fruit" which I play with people. I vividly imagine a fruit and "place" it on the desk next to the person, and have them guess what it is. I use fruits because there are a finite but reasonable number of them, and they involve all the senses, not just sight. I'll never forget the time someone guessed my pomegranate in one shot, and I guessed his kumquat in one go right after.

"Do you reckon you're actually visiting a place, or did you just remember a virtual location well? The latter is actually a bit weird still, to remember something which came from your own head in the first place."

I honestly have no idea. I always wonder myself. I also find it strange to think I could vividly recall something I invented. There's no reason to assume it's impossible, but that's one of the reasons I am so fascinated when I get into "real time" thinking while lucid dreaming. I can look at a surface with some randomness to it, like grain in wood, and then look away, and look back, and it looks the same--like it would in real life. You can't memorize all the grains in wood you see in the flesh, but when you look back, you certainly are like "yes, I remember that knot, and that one there." It's just like that sometimes in dreams. I find that quite amazing!

"Have you verified this? For example by diving into a book and actually read it the next day while you're awake to verify that your dream is genuinely the story from the book. Or do you think it's just an expansion on your dream, where you just use a book to continue fabricating your story?"

Funny, but I never even asked myself this. Since I am dyslexic in dreams, it's not like I know titles or authors. Never even thought to look for the books in a library like they might exist in our world. I do think though that it's usually a tool to continue fabricating the story.
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:iconmartinsilvertant:
MartinSilvertant Featured By Owner Mar 30, 2013  Professional General Artist
I vividly saw a strange woman in my room when I had sleep paralysis once! I will never forget how real she looked.
How did you perceive this woman? I mean, did you recognize her as being part of your sleep paralysis?

I didn't get sleep paralysis until a few years ago, after which it increased in frequency too.
To me that begs the question even more where it comes from. Does it have to do with our experiences, or drug use? Or does the brain simply have to achieve a certain maturity before it can show these tricks? Well, I subjectively perceive it as tricks, but I reckon they might be flaws. So a final consideration would be that some parts of the brain are functioning improper or just different, linked with age.

"If you can focus images during a conversation ..."
How do you mean?

The word "focus" is an unlucky choice. I think "project" is more suitable. My consideration was that if indeed it's possible to project images into an exterior mind, then the idea of visiting a location in an exterior mind doesn't seem as far-fetched.

I'll never forget the time someone guessed my pomegranate in one shot, and I guessed his kumquat in one go right after.
It's obviously not proof, but I must say whether it's down to chance or there really is something to it, I'm fairly impressed.

I can look at a surface with some randomness to it, like grain in wood, and then look away, and look back, and it looks the same--like it would in real life.
I'm confused by myself right now. I re-wrote a response three times now, and each time there was a different way of reasoning or a different consideration. I'm sure books could and have been written about this subject, but with no way to verify things one has to wonder about the significance. One of the things I was wondering is why your memory seems so much better in a virtual world than in the real world (not implying your memory is bad in the real world). I suppose one can only speculate about all of this though; there doesn't seem to be a genuine way to verify things in a lucid dream, as I reckon since you're dreaming anyway, your brain can close certain loops of fabrication and reasoning so even if nothing makes sense, you don't recognize it as such. In case of your example, it may be that the texture does change but your brain covers that up. If that's the case though, you could ask why your brain can or should cover that up. So many things to consider, but so few things to verify it seems.

Never even thought to look for the books in a library like they might exist in our world.
Do you reckon you can think rationally in a lucid dream? If not, I guess you could never verify whether the books in your dream library exist in the real world, regardless of whether they actually do.
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:iconbalthasarcraft:
balthasarcraft Featured By Owner Mar 30, 2013  Professional Artisan Crafter
"How did you perceive this woman? I mean, did you recognize her as being part of your sleep paralysis?"

At the time, I honestly believed she was in my room, flesh in blood, but one doesn't think clearly during these episodes. Afterwards I realized how unlikely that would be, but she never has ceased to "feel" real to me. She even identified herself with one of those "identity" tags we were talking about in dreams that are more reliable than faces.

"To me that begs the question even more where it comes from. Does it have to do with our experiences, or drug use? "

I haven't used drugs, but my sleep paralysis and other sleep disturbances took off in much stronger force after I experienced a lot of physical and psychological trauma. I believe that is a common manifestation of PTSD.

"The word "focus" is an unlucky choice. I think "project" is more suitable."

Yes, like guess the fruit. I agree that guess the fruit is proof of nothing, but seems noteworthy nonetheless. Then again, as you and I both know, proving pretty much anything seems to be nigh impossible.

" One of the things I was wondering is why your memory seems so much better in a virtual world than in the real world (not implying your memory is bad in the real world). "

I don't think it is better in the virtual world? It felt exactly the same to me. It's not like I remembered the exact placement of all the knots. Otherwise I could have reproduced it in my virtual mind's eye (this is getting convoluted) while looking away from the virtual wood grain. I couldn't reproduce it, but when I looked back at it I could "recognize" it. Just like in real life. I can't exactly reproduce wood grain in real life in my mind's eye, but if I look back at it, I can "recognize" wood knots.

"So many things to consider, but so few things to verify it seems."

As usual!

"Do you reckon you can think rationally in a lucid dream?"

Rarely, but I've had it happen where I can make very coherent thoughts in words and sentences and think in whatever counts for "real time" in the dream. I've actually tried to confirm things before. Like of a person feels very "real" to me, I will try to exchange email addresses with them. I've never gotten a response, but my own recall on wake-up is terrible. The dyslexia makes it hard for me to get the letters in the address right, even when it's a name. I strongly doubt I've ever been right about a "real" person with this exercise, but I continue to give it a shot.
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:iconmartinsilvertant:
MartinSilvertant Featured By Owner Mar 30, 2013  Professional General Artist
I don't think it is better in the virtual world? It felt exactly the same to me. It's not like I remembered the exact placement of all the knots.
Ahh since you basically said the texture remained the same no matter how often you looked, and since I reckon the texture remains the same by memory and not because it actually exists with that texture, I concluded your memory is better in the virtual world. I drew wrong conclusions.

but my own recall on wake-up is terrible.
Can't you train this though? A friend of mine was practicing lucid dreaming for a little while. I'm not sure if his ability to recall got better though. He did get better at simply setting things right to achieve a lucid dream.
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:iconbalthasarcraft:
balthasarcraft Featured By Owner Mar 30, 2013  Professional Artisan Crafter
My recall in general isn't so bad, but it's the dyslexia. I have a very hard time reading and even hearing words in my dreams. Reading is the worst. They look like floating, fluid gibberish. If I get someone to write down an address for me, I make them say it aloud and spell it aloud, but it's still really hard for me. I rarely can even converse in dreams. I don't talk much, and I'm lucky if I can get a full sentence out that doesn't sound like nonsensical blather. So considering I barely understand words while I'm dreaming, recall of words is even worse.
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:iconmartinsilvertant:
MartinSilvertant Featured By Owner Mar 31, 2013  Professional General Artist
I'm impressed with the amount of detail you seem to pick up anyway. I don't remember ever having seen a word in my dreams; not even one I couldn't read. My dreams are rather abstract. I rarely ever talk, either. But I have to wonder for what reason I would be talking anyway. It's like wearing glasses while your eyes are perfect; it's just for appearances.
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:iconmiontre:
miontre Featured By Owner Oct 28, 2012  Hobbyist Photographer
I've technically had a few lucid dreams but I've ever taken control of them, except for once! :lol:

The funny thing is, the first time I did take control was when I was very young (probably only 7 or 8 years). Obviously, I did not know what a lucid dream was at this point. But looking back, I definitely think it was a lucid dream. I had been with a group of friends in some sort of Western Cowboy Wild-Wild-West type town. Suddenly, they had disappeared, and I was looking for them. I was beginning to give up looking for them when I said to myself, "I will just look in this building and if they are not there, I will wake up." I ran over to the building, and they weren't there. Sure enough, I woke up immediately.

Very recently, I realised I was dreaming. I got really excited and started jumping around (in the dream) because of the fact I was going to be able to do what I wanted. Although, I never actually got around to doing anything. :lol:

The reason I don't want to self induce lucid dreams is because I am afraid of having a near death experience or out of body experience like you did (I can't remember which is which, maybe that's not even what you had, but I read that those are the dangers of lucid dreams).
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:iconmartinsilvertant:
MartinSilvertant Featured By Owner Oct 28, 2012  Professional General Artist
I haven't looked for evidence to support this claim but I think children are actually more likely to have lucid dreams. In any case, I had them more often when I was a kid and like you, I didn't know what it meant nor did I actually make a distinction between a regular dream and a lucid dream at the time. I suppose perhaps because I had them so frequently and I had no idea lucid dreams are not so common. I must say though I don't clearly remember ever having a lucid dream where I had absolute control. Most of the times they were nightmares and I realized I was dreaming but couldn't wake up. Sometimes I would walk in my parents' basement (in the dream) and a man with a knife would appear and I would add a goofy character like Donald Duck or whatever to essentially take over the dream and give it my own spin. I've heard from someone who claims he can actually spend days in a dream and read books and such. I'm not sure I actually believe that simply because I never managed to have such control, but I guess dreams can be just as realistic as reality.

Lately I've been having a different kind of dreams. I'm not aware I'm dreaming but it's so real that when I wake up I have to realize that it was a dream indeed. It can be rather confusing because sometimes it's hard to distinguish dreams from reality. I can often get depressed because in my dream an issue had been solved and I then have to realize (sometimes hours or even days later) that it wasn't real.

Lucid dreams and actually dreams in general are pretty bizarre. I would actually recommend trying to induce a lucid dream though. As far as I know there is no risk of anything bad happening, and what's really the hurt in experiencing death in a dream anyway? It might give some interesting insights into reality. I should also let you know that when I did have this experience described in the Journal I actually partied on XTC the day before. Whether it was a genuine lucid dream or my brain woke up sooner than my body, I'm sure it was induced by the drugs.
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:iconxo-piercemepretty-ox:
xo-PierceMePretty-ox Featured By Owner May 25, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
I wouldn't be disturbed by it, I would use it as a source of potential knowledge. I've had random people visit me in my lucid dreams and tell me vital info, one even predicted my gma's time of death by 2 weeks. Use it to explore the other world, after all, the chemical released during dreaming also occurs in blast at birth and death, and the molecule that makes up that chemical can be found in every single thing on earth. That alone, in my opinion, gives dreams some sort of place in life. Also that not breathing dream is pretty typical for a lot of people, and if you're really concerned I would suggest getting checked for sleep apnea. much luck towards whatever your preferable outcome is :)
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:iconmartinsilvertant:
MartinSilvertant Featured By Owner May 25, 2012  Professional General Artist
> I wouldn't be disturbed by it,
It's not like I'm afraid of it all, but it's nonetheless disturbing to me and my issue is that in the moment I realize I'm dreaming I just want to check if I can wake up to feel "safe" before going back in, which obviously isn't possible. I don't train lucid dreaming but I hope as the experiences grow, I will be more comfortable in that moment of realization so I can stay in the dream and properly explore.

> I would use it as a source of potential knowledge
I know lucid dreams and the use of entheogen can give fantastic insights and revelations, however I'm very skeptical about getting new information this way. The brain is a very strange organ and I'm aware there are many things I have yet to explore and also many things I'm just too skeptical about right now, but who knows as my experience grows I will be more accepting of what I would almost consider paranormal phenomena.

I've been talking with someone about prophetic dreams; I've never had any so I'm skeptical of it, though I do often experience déjà vu in such a way that I'm very confused about whether I dreamed or experienced things. Reality and dreams often tend to blur together.

As for DMT, I know quite some about it though I never got to try it yet. As far as I know you get a massive dose of DMT at birth and death but I didn't realize it's vital for dreaming. Would that be the REM sleep or sleeping in general?

As for not breathing, someone on Facebook also mentioned sleep apnea to me but I'm almost certain I don't have it. At least, I think my ex girlfriend should've noticed that years ago. In any case I can't be bothered to get it tested. The night before I also took MDMA so in case my lack of breathing wasn't a dream, I suppose in this instance it could have been generated by the drugs in my body.
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:iconxo-piercemepretty-ox:
xo-PierceMePretty-ox Featured By Owner May 25, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
Yeah molly might do that as well. DMT is released during REM sleep, and theoretically is released through the pineal gland during this time.
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:iconmartinsilvertant:
MartinSilvertant Featured By Owner May 25, 2012  Professional General Artist
What's molly?
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:iconxo-piercemepretty-ox:
xo-PierceMePretty-ox Featured By Owner May 27, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
mdma=molly
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:icondyun:
Dyun Featured By Owner May 22, 2012  Professional Digital Artist
I LOVE lucid dreaming. I've had a few dreams like that and it was amazing. Don't be afraid of it. Learn to take control of it. I realized that I had the power to make anything happen. Problem was that it is very hard to concentrate on making something happen and not wake yourself up in the process. One night I realized I was dreaming. I found myself in what looked like a very old hospital. It had white tiles and those metal tables and counters. I was kneeling on the floor, looking up. I looked at my hands and noticed that they seemed incredibly real. The detail was mind-boggling... just like real life. I thought to myself "how can I tell dreams and reality apart when here they look much the same???" A couple of people were walking past me in the room, so I decided to ask where I was. I wanted to know the location, time, date, etc. I wanted to be able to verify this place when I woke up, but nobody would talk to me. Nobody stopped to tell me, they just continued to go about their business. I woke up a minute later.

The next time this happened, I was dreaming that I was visiting my family in their home. It was sort of like the dream you had. We were having a little get-together, having BBQ and talking. All of a sudden something tipped me off and I realized I was dreaming. I didn't know what to do. Should I keep having this conversation? Ignore them? I decided I'd just go along with it and continued to enjoy the party even though I knew I was dreaming.

The best one I had was when I found myself walking down a street when suddenly a lamp post triggered me to realize I was in a dream. I almost got too excited, almost woke up, but kept concentrating on staying asleep instead. It was time to practice some magic, I told myself. I set up a training ground for myself. I walked up to a tall concrete building. It had a lot of windows. I challenged myself to open the door, walk in and imagine something inside. I opened the door, but the room was empty. I conjured up another door. I told myself that when I walk through that door, I will find people inside and I will morph their faces into whatever I want them to look like. I took the handle, opened it, walked in and found myself among a group of random people. I stopped in front of one of them and started morphing her face. I saw it swirl up as it was getting ready to change, but then it morphed right back to what it was. It required a lot of energy. I must have walked through 5 or 10 more doors just like it before I reached the top of the building. The top was made out of glass and it seemed like I reached a higher level of consciousness. There was an elevator waiting for me. It was made out of some sort of metal and shaped like a pyramid. It only had enough room for one person. I stepped inside it and wondered where it would lead. I realized that wherever this pyramid-shaped elevator was taking me, it was one of the highest points of consciousness. I looked up and it was getting brighter and brighter. I was heading for the brightest light I have ever seen. Unfortunately just before the door was supposed to open, I woke up and never got to find out what was at the very top. :)

Lucid dreaming is difficult to achieve. You have to be very relaxed and in a quiet room. All of my most intense lucid dreams involved a quiet, peaceful room with no distractions. Instead of fearing it you should embrace it. It can open up a new world that belongs to you.
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:iconmartinsilvertant:
MartinSilvertant Featured By Owner May 23, 2012  Professional General Artist
As a kid I had many lucid dreams but as a teenager it pretty much stopped. I suppose they returned when I started smoking weed and turning my sleeping schedule upside down. When I don't sleep for almost 3 days I start hallucinating and it's in that state where I'm most prone to have lucid dreams when I do sleep.

> I wanted to be able to verify this place when I woke up,
> but nobody would talk to me.
Now that's just disturbing. I think I would realize something is "wrong" when nobody would talk to me and at that moment I would wake up to make sure it was a dream.

> I thought to myself "how can I tell dreams and reality apart when here they
> look much the same???"
I think that's a scary thought but it's one I have often about reality and death. I find my memory to be so strange; I often don't know what I dreamed and what I did in real life. Sometimes I realize by the end of the day that my experience was a dream and in some instances it has been a major disappointment because I thought I fixed a few of my problems and then realize they're only fixed in my dreams. Dreams and being awake blend into each other, which to me isn't illogical considering consciousness itself is so strange and so hard to explain and scientists are still not even sure what dreaming is for. REM sleep doesn't even occur in many animals and baby's remain in REM sleep for more than 80% of their total sleep cycles. I recently read an article about REM sleep and scientists now suspect it's similar to defragmenting your computer's hard drive. You categorize all the information you generated during the day, which might be where dreams come from. Death also has strange connections with sleep. For one, lucid dreams are similar to trips in some ways and when you're born and die your body is exposed to a massive dose of DMT. You enter consciousness tripping, you trip while you're sleep (by the way, when you think about it, isn't it very weird that we lay still and not do anything for 8 hours every day?)and you leave consciousness tripping.

> I decided I'd just go along with it and continued to enjoy the party even though
> I knew I was dreaming.
Was it a normal party or was nobody talking to you like in the hospital?

> I stopped in front of one of them and started morphing her face.
That's just fantastic!

> Unfortunately just before the door was supposed to open,
> I woke up and never got to find out what was at the very top.
I do wonder to which extent you can get real revelations. After all it's still all in your mind so it's illogical that you can learn yourself something you didn't know yet. However I can't say much for certain as I've experienced consciousness to be very strange. To give a small example, I recently had a moment where I became conscious in my sleep and thought "alarm clock" and literally one second later my alarm clock went off. I'm aware of my biological clock but my sleeping schedule is so messed up that I don't have a certain time where I'm supposed to wake up. Perhaps that doesn't matter though, as I'm sure my brain will know shortly before I wake up that I'm going to wake up regardless of my sleeping schedule. But then when you think about methodological solipsism and you realize meaning is derived internally, I think your brain can make fantastical observations and associations without ever having experienced it. The brain is incredibly powerful.

> Instead of fearing it you should embrace it.
I know there's nothing to be afraid of but in that moment I just act irrationally because I'm not fully conscious. It's just kind of a shocking realization. What I really want in that moment is to wake up and feel safe and then dive right back in to explore, but once I'm up, I'm up. I did have another lucid dream shortly after the first one but I didn't expect it (and I'm not sure if I ever will as I feel like I'm just not conscious enough) so the moment of realization was just as shocking as it always has. This is one of one of those things I find fascinating when they happen, but somehow I don't care enough to train it. I've once talked to a guy who said he could remain in his lucid dream for days or weeks (hours in reality of course) and live his life; read books and things like that. I'm really unsure if you can really get to that level of control or if he was just trying to be interesting. What do you reckon?

When I was a little kid I would often have nightmares but then take control by adding something wacky like a Disney character. I remember once I entered the cellar in my dream and one of the doors opened and a man with a knife came out. Suddenly Donald Duck stood next to me and then the whole environment morphed into a whole other dream. In most nightmares though I eventually realized I was sleeping and fought to wake up because it was so nightmarish. I would often wake up in sweat.
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:icondyun:
Dyun Featured By Owner May 23, 2012  Professional Digital Artist
"> I wanted to be able to verify this place when I woke up,
> but nobody would talk to me.
Now that's just disturbing. I think I would realize something is "wrong" when nobody would talk to me and at that moment I would wake up to make sure it was a dream."

It felt like I was invisible or dead. Nobody knew I was there.

"> I decided I'd just go along with it and continued to enjoy the party even though
> I knew I was dreaming.
Was it a normal party or was nobody talking to you like in the hospital?"

It was a normal party. I carried on a conversation with my mom and sister as if they were real. They didn't know the difference, but I felt like I was just humoring them.

" Dreams and being awake blend into each other, which to me isn't illogical considering consciousness itself is so strange and so hard to explain and scientists are still not even sure what dreaming is for."

I love that you said that. I've been reading a book called "DMT - The Spirit Molecule" and it's a great book. It explains a lot about the role that DMT plays in our bodies. It seems that both at birth and at death the pineal gland floods us with a massive dose of DMT. Isn't it strange that the most powerful hallucinogen on earth can be found in our own bodies??? Apparently DMT is common in a lot of living creatures, including plants. Why? Nobody knows. The other question is.... how are we able to "see" the world around us when the part of our brain which interprets light and images never actually sees any light itself and is contained in complete darkness all of our lives? So many questions. :)

"I do wonder to which extent you can get real revelations. After all it's still all in your mind so it's illogical that you can learn yourself something you didn't know yet. However I can't say much for certain as I've experienced consciousness to be very strange."

Consciousness is indeed very strange. Let's say that maybe I partook in some fungus, and maybe I saw and experienced things that I could not have possibly imagined, because I have never seen anything like it in the reality I live on a day to day basis. Where did it come from? Some would argue that my senses were damaged, but it seemed to me that the opposite was true. I never felt more clear and never felt more conscious or "alive". It's a long story, but all I'm going to say is that it was a life-changing experience. I've tried to do so, but explaining it to someone who's never been there is impossible. It can't be described with human words because words have no meaning in this place, only emotions and thoughts exist. They look at me like I'm crazy. If only they knew. :)

"I know there's nothing to be afraid of but in that moment I just act irrationally because I'm not fully conscious. It's just kind of a shocking realization. What I really want in that moment is to wake up and feel safe and then dive right back in to explore, but once I'm up, I'm up."

You'll just have to make a conscious decision to go into it. It may be difficult, but sounds to me like you have a lot of potential here. For me it happens sporadically. I've tried to plan it out, but it doesn't happen for me that way. It might be due to all the distractions around me. There's not one moment of total silence here and I have to sleep in order to function at work.

"I've once talked to a guy who said he could remain in his lucid dream for days or weeks (hours in reality of course) and live his life; read books and things like that. I'm really unsure if you can really get to that level of control or if he was just trying to be interesting. What do you reckon?"

I've heard of people like that. Stranger things have happened. Not sure if the guy you talked to was telling the truth, but I don't think it's impossible. I've heard of people who live a second life in their dreams. They have wives, kids, a job,... just like real life but with different people involved. They say they usually don't enjoy it, because they feel like they get no rest. It's easy to doubt somebody when you've never experienced it yourself. I never have, but I've had lucid dreams where I tried reading books. They were gibberish. Maybe he told you the truth, or maybe (as you said) he wanted to sound interesting. :)

Let's switch gears for a moment. We haven't mentioned prophetic or shared dreams. Most of us experience different types of dreams. Lucid dreaming is one, gibberish (defragmenting) is the other, and prophetic dreams are just plain bizarre. I'll give an example.

This happened about four or five years ago. My sister and I were sleeping in the same room together and we both had a dream. She woke up in the morning and told me she dreamed of hundreds of ladybugs everywhere. My eyes popped open and I said I dreamed of a giant ladybug. We laughed about it and started getting ready for our trip. We planned to drive to Mexico that day. We arrived in Puerto Nuevo at lunchtime and stopped behind some little tourist shops to look over the ocean. Suddenly we both notice something. There are ladybugs everywhere. There is a swarm of them. They are landing on our shirts and flying past us. We laughed and wondered.... coincidence or something more? Haven't seen a swarm of ladybugs before that day, or any day after. It was the first and last time it happened to us.

Another example was when our 18 year old cousin suddenly died in a car accident thousands of miles away. Five or ten minutes before my mom walked into my sister's room she dreamed she saw him. He was standing in front of her with a very worried look on his face. He didn't say anything at all, just stood there. She woke up, mom walked into her room and before she even said anything, my sister already knew. They were very close. Coincidence? Who knows.

My mom has also had dreams about her mom. She dreamed she saw her mom in a hospital bed with broken legs. Her sister was there taking care of her. Later she received a phone call to let us know that our grandmother had been hit by a car the night before. She was alive, but very bruised up and hurt. More coincidence?

I won't bore you with more examples, but have you ever had dreams like that? What do you suppose that means? If dreams are nothing but defragmentation of our thoughts and day to day experiences, where do prophetic and shared dreams fit in? Reality is a lot more strange than some realize. :)
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:iconmartinsilvertant:
MartinSilvertant Featured By Owner May 23, 2012  Professional General Artist
> They didn't know the difference, but I felt like I was just humoring them.
That's awesome!

As for DMT, I've read plenty about it but never got to try it. It's quite hard for me to imagine DMT is the strongest drug there is though. Have you ever done Salvia Divinorum? I recently went to an afterparty and spoke with a guy who said his friends were extracting DMT. As it's in virtually every plant it would seem so easy to get, yet I don't want to attempt the extraction myself and I haven't found a reliable source yet to buy it from.

> how are we able to "see" the world around us when the part of our brain which
> interprets light and images never actually sees any light itself and is contained
> in complete darkness all of our lives?
I've read this statement before but I forgot about it for years. I guess in a way it's easy to explain but it still begs the question why an external organ is necessary to feed the information to the main organ. I actually also find it very strange that we eat, drink, talk and breath with the same hole. I would say it isn't very smart and I thought nature was smart. Why don't we breath like insects, or at least be able to talk, breath and eat at the same time? Not because it's necessary but because it's more secure with isolated organs for different tasks.

> Let's say that maybe I partook in some fungus, and maybe I saw and experienced
> things that I could not have possibly imagined
I would love for you not to be so vague haha. I understand what you mean though. I might have done several types of mushrooms, truffles, San Pedro, MDMA, 2CB, LSA, speed, weed and Salvia Divinorum. I find the effects of all those drugs quite easy to explain except for Salvia. Salvia makes you experience things for which there simply are no words and you make connections you couldn't possibly make outside of the trip. I've done Salvia about 6 times and each time was more nightmarish than anything I've ever experienced before, and so much stranger than any other experience or drug. My first Salvia trip lasted a few minutes but I needed 10 minutes to completely realize that this was the reality I've always been in. For some reason I lost my ego (I also lost my ego with San Pedro but I still had a reference to compare), my memories and absolutely everything. All that was left was an abstract nightmare and when I returned I felt like the reality I was born in was just an illusion and I just discovered the real world. In a way I might very well have as it seemed a return to abstract consciousness; to the universe. An other time my trip was slightly less abstract. In this trip I also lost pretty much everything and I couldn't see or hear but there was a deity communicating with me. It told me to wipe the dimension clean so I could escape from a loop/fractal of spacetime or whatever it was. I tried, but behind me the dimension grew back immediately and I panicked. In reality I was just walking circles in the room.

> There's not one moment of total silence here and I have to sleep in order to
> function at work.
How come? I don't think I really need total silence for myself though. I believe during my last lucid trips the birds were singing outside.

I never heard of people living lives in their dreams but that's immensely fascinating. I'm incredibly skeptical though so even if something seems plausible I would still doubt it until I read it's true in a peer-reviewed science journal. I've seen this video of a little kid who remembers a past life he had and he has been talking about that since he could talk. I want that to be true, but maybe the parents taught the kid this to gain some fame — who knows.

> We laughed and wondered.... coincidence or something more?
That's incredibly bizarre. I will give you my opinion though: I know coincidence exists but I've just experienced too many "coincidences" to give full credit to that phenomenon. I won't rule out coincidence but I believe that this "something more" is real.

> Five or ten minutes before my mom walked into my sister's room
> she dreamed she saw him.
I haven't had such a detailed vision before but I remember years ago I walked outside at night and noticed the moon looked incredibly strange. It was big and blood red, which I had never seen before. Some years later I discovered the scientific reason for a red moon, but the strange thing is that the day after I saw that moon my mom told me someone we knew had been murdered at that hour the night before; she got her throat slit. This is one of those experiences which are just too vague for me to call anything else than coincidence though as I just want to be rational. I've experienced stranger things but I attribute that to my own state of mind at the time. Last year I wasn't doing very well mentally and on my birthday I experiences two "echoes" in time. As a little kid I had ghost experiences and then briefly again when I was 16 or so, but that's another thing I just refuse to give credit. I tell myself my brain fooled myself, which isn't even a forced lie. I just doubt it too much to call it a fact or even a possibility.

> I won't bore you with more examples, but have you ever had dreams like that?
They're fascinating to me. I don't recall specific occasions where I experienced something similar. I've often had severe déjà vu but nothing quite so prophetic. I have no idea what prophetic dreams mean or how to explain them. Defragmentation seems logical, but to share dreams which are connected with actual events... I guess I could try to explain it in an incredibly vague way by describing the fabric of spacetime, magnetic fields, entropy, the arrow of time and some other cosmological principles but it's all extremely speculative and I couldn't even verify whether anything I would claim is nonsense or not. That's one of my major frustrations in life; to experience so much weirdness, not being able to explain it and to find myself surrounded by people who have no idea about the things we're talking about now. I find there are people who just don't think about deep things like this and there are people who believe their own speculations. You don't often meet rational people who have bizarre experiences about which they could still remain skeptical.

> Reality is a lot more strange than some realize.
This is the first time I hear someone else say that. I've been losing myself in this. The use of entheogen and the obsession with cosmology and theoretical physics can be a really bizarre cocktail. They gave me great insights but I've also become isolated and alienated. The more I learn the more I realize how little I — and presumably humans in general — actually know.
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:icondyun:
Dyun Featured By Owner May 24, 2012  Professional Digital Artist
My reply to you is in a note. :) I wanted to reply here, but some of it is maybe too personal for public viewing. :D
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:iconmartinsilvertant:
MartinSilvertant Featured By Owner May 24, 2012  Professional General Artist
I understand ;)
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