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Sonne Adam Logo

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By MartinSilvertant   |   
Published:
© 2010 - 2020 MartinSilvertant
Sonne Adam Logo
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Client information:

Client: Sonne Adam
Location: Israel
Genre: Death Metal
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Production information:

Medium: Staedtler pigment liner 0.05
Programs: Photoshop CS4, Illustrator CS4
Year: 2010
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Image size
700x700px 137.65 KB
Comments21
anonymous's avatar
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mariotullece's avatar
mariotulleceStudent Digital Artist
well indeed i only figured that is Sonne Adam because of the description but still i loved the logo :D
MartinSilvertant's avatar
MartinSilvertantProfessional General Artist
Thank you. I'm curious though, what did you read, or did you have trouble reading it at all?
ValencyGraphics's avatar
ValencyGraphicsProfessional Digital Artist
Don't know about anyone else, but the first thing I saw was "Home Room." Like the callig, but I'm not sure this is easily recognizable.
MartinSilvertant's avatar
MartinSilvertantProfessional General Artist
Really odd. I mean, I can see how you could read 'home Room' if you ignore your logics in reading and vaguely look at the core shapes, but other than that I think it's pretty obvious what it says. Only the 'a' is a bit less obvious (could be read as 'o') but since there's an 'o' and 'd' in the name as reference points there should be no confusion.

Nevertheless, thanks a lot for your criticism. I think what you're seeing is farfetched but I can't deny it's very helpful to know how people might read different things. If I don't take that criticism into account for this logo at least it will serve as a reminder for future logos.
ValencyGraphics's avatar
ValencyGraphicsProfessional Digital Artist
Of course it would seem obvious to you lol. You're the designer. ;) It's like my Willem De Roo wallpaper in my gallery. It comes across more as "WAR" than "WDR" to most people and some can't even tell that the first letter is a W. A lot of my friends know what it is, and I of course know what it is, and it still looks BA. Just saying that this may not be as recognizable on first, second, or third glance than other calligraphic logos I've seen.
MartinSilvertant's avatar
MartinSilvertantProfessional General Artist
I don't think it has to do with me being the designer, though as I'm a type designer it might have something to do with being more familiar with letter shapes, thus not understanding how certain forms could be misinterpreted.

Your Willem De Roo wallpaper can't be compared to the situation with the Sonne Adam logo. Not a 'D' nor an 'A' looks like the way you designed it, so I don't think it's strange that people could read either. As you also put a diagonal line through the 'D', I'm not even surprised people tend to go for the 'A'. Most of all though people would like to read something that resembles a word. So they dismiss 'WDR', 'IVDR' and 'IVAR' as possible options and just read 'WAR'.

The argument could be made that the tendency to read words rather than unfamiliar names is what brought you to read 'Home Room', but I still think it's strange as apart from the design of the 'A' and 'a' in the logo, no letter in that name deviates much from the skeleton (either from the blackletter or Roman style) we've grown familiar with in the Latin alphabet.

To be more specific:
- An 'H' nor an 'h' features a horizontal line at the bottom and lacks a left vertical stem, so it's weird that you see an 'H' instead of 'S'.
- The 'n' in both cases feature a serif on the left stem. I've never seen an 'm' with a serif in the top center nor with a double stem in the middle. That's why I think it's strange you're seeing an 'm' at all. It's even weirder considering there actually is an 'm' in the name to take as reference, and the double 'n' looks nowhere like it.
- I think it's a little far-fetched to see an 'R' instead of 'A' considering there are two stems and an 'R' features only one stem, a bowl and a leg, so designing the right side as a straight line would be a horrible practice for 'R'. I would actually agree with you if you would see an 'H' considering the top is open unlike what an 'A' should look like. In hindsight it might have been better to close the top, though that would create a double stroke (top of 'A' and bottom of 'o') which would make the left side way too heavy. That's why I kept the top open and let the bottom of the 'o' be part of the 'A'. But yeah, this one is a little confusing.
- An 'o' with an ascender would be absolutely terrible, so I can't imagine ever designing an 'o' that way. It's always going to look like a 'd' if you put an ascender on the right side, especially in the blackletter style as most blackletters use a curved ascender like I did.
- The core structure of the 'a' with its heavy serif-like bottom should really differentiate it from an 'o', though due to the lack of a stem with serif I would understand if you would see an 'o' instead.

Anyway, it might seem like I'm desperately trying to defend this logo but that's not true. I acknowledge some of its forms could be misinterpreted. As a type designer I just want to emphasize why the letters are designed this way and how some of these letters really shouldn't/couldn't be misinterpreted if you think logically about letter forms, however I do admit that the general public just isn't as familiar with specific elements of a letter to judge it appropriately.

I do agree with you that there are many calligraphic logos which are more obvious than the Sonne Adam logo. I guess that's mostly because the Sonne Adam logo isn't calligraphic. Essentially I forced a blackletter (which is indeed heavily based on calligraphic forms) into a geometric structure which might cause some unfamiliarity.
ValencyGraphics's avatar
ValencyGraphicsProfessional Digital Artist
I'm not arguing about whether or not you meant to design the logo that way as a type designer. Designers usually have a reason behind why they placed things so that's no surprise. Thanks for some clarification on what types of text there are and why this is not calligraphy (I'll keep that in mind when looking for or designing my own logos). That was interesting and insightful.

Here's my only issue: telling me how I should see your logo, lol. Just because I see it differently first time around doesn't mean I don't know how to see my alphabet. The "S" is quite busy and when you look at the upper half, it looks more like a lowercase "h" from first glance. The two "n"'s melded together as the separator can be taken as a shadow line in between. Because there are elements of blacklettering, a case can be made that the "A" could be an "R" in rune-ish form or cursive take on an "r" due to the psychology of my mind making sense that "Hoom" is not a word and therefore going to something I know: "Room" (Though I totally agree, going back and looking, it's much more of an "H" than any of the other letters.) The "d" bears much resemblance to the "o" in the fact that it is the same shape and size and on the same writing plane. The fact that the extension on the "d" is not pronounced and goes up into the first row of letters, away from the second row of which it is attached. So while you may have reasons, I still find it hard to read.

Also: That logo that you looked at is the wrong picture. It is much more pronounced in this picture: [link] This is EASILY compared to the situation at hand. Readability is limited. The original intent is not clear unless you have a trained eye to look for such. Unfortunately, I do not have that for yours or you for mine (even if you did see the wrong picture).

It is quite naive to think that you are not defending your logo because you would not have taken the time to point out my apparent lack of reading logic if you didn't believe it was an important matter to discuss. You could have said that in a much better manner. Most artists would be more content to say, "I'll take that into consideration" and either take measures to correct it if the accusation is true OR do nothing at all and not care what one person thinks of the logo. I'm just a guy on the internet. I didn't say it to throw you under the bus or to rant on your style. I said it to give you an idea of what someone on the street might see. If you ask for the Sonne Adam CD and they give you a CD with this logo on it, then it will probably be much more clear to that person than if they were to just see the logo on its own with no explanation. That is where I'm coming from. From a LOGO standpoint, it does not hold up very well. From a record standpoint, it's much better because it would have something tangible to give it meaning. Take that as you will, but it would be the truth of it.

On a much brighter note, it still looks cool. There was no question about it. It's the only reason I took the time to comment on it. When I see artwork in my messages, I look at it more as: Do they deserve a view or not? I delete a lot of artwork right in my inbox before I get to ones that actually intrigue me. This looked interesting and I decided to take a look. As a really lame consolation for stress that might be caused by this message or anything that has been said, I have favorited this piece. Depending on what you say next will determine whether I add you to my deviantWatch (which would be another lame consolation/"prize," but hey, it's worth a shot). :D
MartinSilvertant's avatar
MartinSilvertantProfessional General Artist
Well, I should first point out that I have Asperger so I'm very one-sighted (though open-minded) and I have a certain logic which admittedly may not be conform to yours. I get very annoyed when I see things — specifically type-related — which make no sense to me. In fact, I get very angry even though I know it's irrelevant. That's why I reaction so passionately and imposed my logic on you — I still don't see how you can misread the letters if you follow that logic. To give a specific example, in all typefaces I know of — blackletter or roman — the 'd' and the 'o' have the basic form with the 'd' having an extension but particularly in blackletters and more particularly the fraktur the 'd' is exactly like the 'o' with an ascender — sometimes even a short one. So yes, I did impose my logic on you too much. Along the lines I also raised a few other points which I thought were just nice bring to attention and discuss. That's why I wanted to emphasize I wasn't defending myself. I take criticism very well but I do always want to compare my logic with that of other people.

Also, I would definitely have taken your criticism into account — and I would in hindsight have done a few things differently as well — but I can't as the logo has been use for a while and has been published on EP's and whatnot.

I do thank you for your criticism and I would very much like you to give your opinion on more of more works. I'm really not evading anything and you certainly shouldn't expect a discussion every time you bring up a concern with something about my work.
ValencyGraphics's avatar
ValencyGraphicsProfessional Digital Artist
Indeed. I think every logo is that way, wanting to go back and re-work it. In fact, it should be like that. If you aren't continually correcting it and making changes to it, you aren't progressing. Even subtle changes can make a huge difference. I wasn't expecting a discussion at all, but more or less an exchange of words. :) Thanks for answering and I look forward to seeing more of your content in the future. :D
ValencyGraphics's avatar
ValencyGraphicsProfessional Digital Artist
Also, just realized that I said "o" instead of "a" as the title suggests. I guess that would be another misread letter (which is still honestly, hard to read).
heroud's avatar
heroudProfessional Digital Artist
too much nice typo for a Death Metal band!
MartinSilvertant's avatar
MartinSilvertantProfessional General Artist
That was exactly the point. The band didn't want a typical Death Metal logo AT ALL, and I cherished them as a client for that. People tend to come to me exactly because I like to deviate from standards of design in the Extreme Metal scene.
heroud's avatar
heroudProfessional Digital Artist
Yeah, For example when people see the logo of Anal vomit they can figure out how the music will sound, but with this....I imagine Apocaliptica or Nightwish...you know, more melodic metal
Anyway I think they will make some difference in their scene :)
MartinSilvertant's avatar
MartinSilvertantProfessional General Artist
Thats quite a good point but I have a counter-argument. It's handy and appropriate to design a logo in the style of the genre so people know what kind of music it is by just looking at the logo. However...
You first have to ask yourself who the hell got the idea to make the logo this way, why it became the default of the genre and why no one thinks the logo should be unique to the band and really doesn't have to be limited by (stylistic) rules set by the guy who designed the first Death Metal logo (for the sake of the argument ignore that it was a slow process to get from a Heavy Metal logo to what eventually became a standard style for Death Metal logos).

Why the hell did Black Metal bands start using blackletters (particularly from the Fraktur and Textura classes and strangely enough they seem to ignore the Rotunda class completely)? Well, the argument could be made that blackletters just look darker and more sinister in a way, which I think is partially an association with both Medieval times and Nazi Germany which are stigmatized. In any case, the blackletter became the default for Black Metal though a lot of rules of the blackletters (rules which stayed the same for centuries) were ignored. For example, most blackletters are not designed to use in all-caps, yet this became default practice in Black Metal. I'm a type designer so I absolutely refuse to incorrectly use such a typeface for the sake of complying with the rules of the genre. It's just bad practice.

So, ultimately I don't really mind if you associate the logo with other genres because that's the fault of everyone trying to make genre-"appropriate" logos. The Sonne Adam logo sets the mood the band was going for and given that they're from Israel, in a way I actually find the current Sonne Adam logo to be more suitable than a more typical Death Metal one. It might also be linked more to their theme than their music, or their music is not standard Death Metal, or perhaps they just wanted to differentiate themselves. I don't know to be honest.

Anyway, of course I still tend to make genre-appropriate logos but the Sonne Adam logo was an exception. I often just like to ignore the standards of the genre and consider what works best for the project regardless of what the other bands in the genre do. I think it's a bad thing that this isn't the standard, though obviously it's nice indeed to know the style of music just by looking at the logo. Actually, I think it's fair to expect the logo to tell you about the music but that doesn't mean you have to limit yourself completely by standards of the genre. There are many ways to design a "dark" and genre-appropriate logo. The Sonne Adam logo looks dark and sophisticated and I think that's all the band cared to say with their logo. Their cover artwork in combination with the logo should say a lot more about their music and theme.

Forgive the long text. I apparently really like to make my point. I'm not trying to defend my logo (as this implies I made a mistake) but I like to explain why I designed it this way.
heroud's avatar
heroudProfessional Digital Artist
eeeerrrr.....ok
:D
Meztone's avatar
Nice to see some new logos from you. This looks great.
MartinSilvertant's avatar
MartinSilvertantProfessional General Artist
Thanks!
p41nk1ll3r's avatar
that A done with the O looks nice, I think I've only seen that trick on logo for a slavian metal fest done by Spajdel. The finess and style mantained on the letters is remarkable, I just find the second A too similar to an O.
MartinSilvertant's avatar
MartinSilvertantProfessional General Artist
You're right, however, if I would have added the finial to the a, it would disrupt the design. So I chose aesthetics above legibility. Thanks a lot for your words.
odiumediae's avatar
odiumediaeStudent Writer
Hm, I'm not quite sure whether I like or don't like the part where the S and the A almost meet. But I love the E, the A and the M. Great logo!
MartinSilvertant's avatar
MartinSilvertantProfessional General Artist
It started with a blackletter style 'S', which has a double stem of course. I made it so that 'A' and 'o' would give the 'S' that double stroke.

Thanks a lot for the comment.
anonymous's avatar
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