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Addendum: [link]

I still think it's the best game I've ever played.


It's not crafted by gods tho, so course it had problems.
Like dodgy facial animations on the lady who gives you the first Vigor. Or non-interactable NPCs that, to be fair, did have plenty of dialogue, you just had to run past them a couple times to auto-play it since they usually aren't written to be talking to you. Still: new territory for 2k after Bioshock 1+2 barely had any friendly NPCs up close.
Vigors initially seemed to lack some upgrade diversity from Bioshock 2, but they've actually melted down almost all effects from plasmids, weapons and tonics and re-assigned them to the new mechanics. Security bots wouldn't do so well in really open and vertical arenas; the tear-turrets were a much better replacement for example.
The weapons, competent but not that interesting (could've used some hold-down-ironsights, too), lacked the previous games' visual customization... but then again picking up new weapons to find them uniquely customized would've been awkward as well. And I changed weapons a lot in 1999 mode where the two-weapons restriction (which I disliked at first) makes ammo pretty scarce and forces you to stay mobile and looting, rethinking how to maneuver and exploit the level constantly. Enemies weren't so diverse you needed another playstyle for each of them, but the AI mostly knows how to flank and flush even in open areas. The real diversity comes in your equipment and how you use the levels: core gameplay, which is exactly the kind of freedom I'm looking for in an otherwise linear, story-driven game.
I think they also expanded your item interactivity radius, so sometimes you didn't see where the game's interaction prompts were coming from. The Boys of Silence I expected to operate on sound rather than sight. Aaand Elizabeth sometimes did weird teleportation to stay in front of you. That's pretty much all I can think of.
For every little thing the game did badly, it did two little things right tho.
Tons of lovely detail and lore elegantly told. Wanna know how the Handymen actually feel like? Right in the beginning we see one on stage dressed like some show animal in some ridiculous "fancy" clothing, scared of all the camera flash lights going off. I wonder if he regrets the decision he made. Unlike the Big Daddies, he's not brainwashed after all.
The game's filled to the top with this stuff, it's amazing what devs unrestrained by publisher demands can do. The Bioshocks have gotten exponentially better with each installment in my opinion, number two's failed multiplayer experiment aside.
I could do a whole other comic on how much I friggin loved Elizabeth, but my highlights were the organic gameplay moments where all hope seemed lost and then she tossed you just the right thing. She's not a walking turret and door opener dispensing mission objectives like Alyx. Neither an escort-mission-hindrance. She genuinely felt like someone with you there, trying to support you best she can. Pretty much everything in the game was great, but to me she was the best and most polished part. Wise focus decision on the devs' part, because if a player doesn't like her, he'll have a hard time ignoring her during gameplay or story.
Contrary to what the comic may convey, I even loved the ending.
Right until the veeery last scene where reality-warping, time travelling and baptism metaphors clash together into something weird and, as I understand it, basically rocks fall and everyone dies. I only turn into the raging little stickman when I'm thinking through the details. I sat through the credits in sad disbelief like a hollow doll.
Oh well. I got a stupid spark of hope. My Booker didn't have his bandage on in that last scene and I don't think Elizabeth wore the jewelry he bought her. Imposters! Where's the real Booker and Elizabeth? :V C'mon 2k, we all just want to see her stupid wide grin when reaching Paris after all she's been through. I know you won't edit the ending or continue it in DLC or Infinite 2, I know you won't give us that little light, but... ):
All shortcomings utterly fail distract from the fact that this game has soul.
Soul like I've never seen it before in a game. I know you don't really have to chase after Songbird without a timer ticking. You can see the tropes and how they construct scenes with them. I knew all that, but the game was so good it made me forget about all of this. I went through some real emotions while playing, I was actually muttering stuff out loud (which I've never done before), I actually forgot reality around me when Elizabeth got in some serious trouble.
It's easier for old games to create that immersive effect. Back then I couldn't see through them, wasn't used to mechanics X and tropes Y. It all felt novel and magical to me. I thought I had gotten so used to fiction in general and games especially that by now that I couldn't ever get immersed like I used to. I certainly never imagined Bioshock Infinite could surpass that magic by a landslide for me.
So very glad to see I was wrong.


P.S.
I'm doing another runthrough once my PC problems are sorted out to make sure I've discovered most things myself. So if I don't read your comment just yet, you know why.

P.P.S.
The Disney scene in the bar's cellar was really awkward.
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:iconkykywox:
Kykywox Featured By Owner Dec 18, 2014
Wonderful to feel your take on this wonderful game, will you do anything about the Burial at Sea DLCs?
Reply
:iconmarikbentusi:
MarikBentusi Featured By Owner Dec 20, 2014
Honestly, unlikely. I still haven't been motivated to play the second part.
Reply
:iconkykywox:
Kykywox Featured By Owner Jan 20, 2015
It's quite a wonderful ride, I highly recommend it :P
Reply
:iconhour27:
Hour27 Featured By Owner Nov 19, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
DISNEY SCENE!?!?! WHERE!?!
Reply
:icondeanleowinchester:
DeanLeoWinchester Featured By Owner May 25, 2013   General Artist
This is, was, will be almost exactly my feelings through the entire experience.

Especially when Elizabeth saved me Booker... and let Songbird take her, when she screamed 'I'm Sorry!' my heart nearly stopped, she was willing to accept a fate worse than death in order to prevent mine... and when she looked at me... and Songbird took off... i went from total shock and fear to seething hatred and rage that is not normal for me, i'm the slow-careful-practical-loot-and-examine-everything type, i bolted after them faster than i knew what was happening, screaming at the screen along with Booker, and then the desperate and frantic fights through the asylum really made me realize just how much i depended on Elizabeth.

I never felt romantically attached to Elizabeth though... she felt more like a little sister to me (no pun intended)
and Songbird's death... :(

on the ending...
actually according to the game's own logic, including a voxophone by Rosalind Lutece stating:
'Time is more an Ocean than a River... why bring a tide in that will just fade away?'
the end did nothing! killing Hero-Booker by going back to the place of his baptism does nothing!
if Elizabeth brought Hero-Booker to that point in time they would have seen Young-Booker there about to be baptised
and even if they killed him, the realities with Zachary Comstock and/or Booker DeWitt still exist somewhere! the Luteces themselves are proof of that! all it would do is create another reality where Booker dies, which probably already existed somewhere in the first place!

but then again an ending where Booker and Elizabeth learn the truth about it all and then procede directly to Paris wouldn't be as heavily debated and leave such an impact would it now?

At the final lighthouse door...
Elizabeth: Booker, are you sure... this is what you want?
Booker: hmm... nah, zap us to Paris!
Elizabeth: ...really?
Booker: yeah i mean it's not like we could actually affect the other realities by killing him, there would always be a reality where he survives.
Elizabeth: i suppose... your right... i was saving this for later but by the way Comstock is actually an alternate you.
Booker: WHAT?! well in that case i definitely don't wanna... wait i already did kill him... me once! does that count as suicide?
Elizabeth: who cares, there's an infinite number of universes where you're still alive.
Booker: yeah... oh well off to Paris!

Though that reality does exist somewhere, multiple versions of it actually.
so in the end even if you didn't like the ending, your ending still exists somewhere...

if only Mass Effect 3 though of that. :D (PS i believe the indoctrination theory on that so it's not that bad)

kinda went on or a while there... i needed to get that out there though...
Reply
:icontreaos:
Treaos Featured By Owner May 12, 2013
so many of these were my reactions its scary, I REALLY wish for a happy ending DLC where we get to take her Dancing in Paris
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:iconnyaoni:
NyaOni Featured By Owner May 6, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
Best Disney movie ever....
Reply
:icontaskmaster78:
Taskmaster78 Featured By Owner Apr 29, 2013
I found this here; which I now consider to be head canon

[link]

It made me feel better, especially after the post credits ending

Also for further information/explanations on the ending;

[link]

Enjoy!
Reply
:iconmarikbentusi:
MarikBentusi Featured By Owner Apr 30, 2013
Well here's my problem with the article's interpretation:

1) The Booker that's symbolically drowned, our player, is a HeroBooker, not a ComstockBooker, which doesn't make sense unless either both are drowned or retroactive continuity declares without ComstockBooker, HeroBooker never could have existed in the first place. It's like the author actually says, "Anything Comstock had an effect on was destroyed", but then he loops around that bit for some reason.

2) The "Anna!" bit in the respawn room doesn't verfiy that Anna's there or the scene is in fact real:
When we're introduced to the respawn room Booker is acting along with the memories the room puts him in, that bit where Letuce is knocking at the door and he keeps telling him he won't do it. We also learn it's an unreal place in which opening the door can show you a vision of NY burning. The second time we visit it, when Songbird wrecks so much stuff he's drowning both Booker and Elizabeth, the two suddenly end up in that respawn room and Elizabeth becomes zombie-like but never speaks of it again ingame (it also apparently teleports both characters to a shallow beach above instead of the sea below). And around the end it's a memory show to be freely manipulated by Elizabeth again.
My point is that nothing in the respawn room is to be taken for what it appears to be, especially when the devs choose to fade to black just before the confirmation for some reason. Same with the bit where our Elizabeth ought to vanish but we don't actually get to see it.

3) We're not in an endless cycle at all, we're seeing plenty of Booker/Elizabeth couples in the lighthouse hub that have defeated Comstock and seen through the "Good Ending". It's infinite worlds, so infinite good endings, bad ones and everything possible inbetween.
Even if it was an endless cycle tho, Old Elizabeth showed us how to break it. We'd just need to do it infinite times or insert Old Elizabeth's note somewhere before the baptism so it exists in all timelines and can be discovered by the Luteces or Elizabeth herself. Of course, that would eliminate all Bad Ending timelines and replace them with Good Ending ones.

And call me a pessimist, but I don't see a happy ending for Booker and Anna in a possible new ending either. First because their universe still has, by universal law, a man, a girl and a city. So someone else must suffer now in their stead, and Bad Endings have a higher chance of happening without Old Elizabeths preventing them with reality warping. Seeing how all the bad endings in all the Bioshocks were rather apocalyptic, it would affect Booker and Anna as well.
Second, this is Booker without the character development from Infinite where he goes from "to NY, must do my job, must focus on myself" to "Let's forget everything and go to Paris!".
He's the human-trophy-hunting White Indian from Wounded Knee. He's the horse race gambling drunk shoulder-deep in debt without a possibility to pay them off. He's a Pinkerton henchman that gets his hand bloody if he has to. He was that close to either becoming the self-absorbed madman Comstock or selling his child to a buyer that can't even talk about what he'll do with her.
Call me crazy, but that sounds like a terrible father and a terrible future. I just have no reason to assume anything else.
Reply
:iconyahtzeefan:
yahtzeefan Featured By Owner Apr 28, 2013
Kinda funny that you mention Evangelion, cause the ending to this game gave me the the biggest headfuck I've had since watching that infamous little series. And this is coming from a guy who's watched the works of David Lynch and Lars von Trier!

Still, while I may sound like a fanboy (something I'm more than willing to embrace for this game, which is weird for someone like me who hates fanboys), I can honestly say Infinite is the best game I've ever played. Yes it had its problems - Two weapon load out, some slight bugs, Comstock not being as good as Ryan (though still a good villain), no manual Save system - all of the problems kinda get washed away in the joy I had with this. Its as you said:

".....this game has soul."
Reply
:iconmarikbentusi:
MarikBentusi Featured By Owner Apr 29, 2013
Yeah I think it's the best game I've ever played as well. And like I wrote, I didn't think I'd ever hand out that reward so easily.

I might actually be a bigger fanboy than you because after some grumbling I was actually on board with the two weapon restriction and no manual save system. The last one is probably personal preference tho, as I have a nasty tendency for save scumming which Infinite managed to avoid. So that made me feel like I had to play even more carefully and like my choices were even more important.
I definitely wouldn't have wanted an omni-loadout like with the previous BioShocks tho. Skylines changed the level design a lot and and shield regen the gameplay. With enough weapons and ammo I'd probably have played a lot more defensively with the shield, but since ammo was scarce with two weapons, I ended up using the shield for pushing forward instead and made heavy use of the skylines to grab new weapons. It also made me use my Vigors much more frequently, which is a good thing seeing how the gunplay's "okay" but not as good as the rest of the game IMO.
And of course with way more weapons and ammo Elizabeth wouldn't have felt as useful for ammo as she ended up being.

I'm having a hard time comparing Ryan and Comstock actually. Comstock felt much more personal, but Ryan felt more like a person.

Comstock came out into the open quite a few times, he obviously hated you, he demonstrated absolute command over his people, he made his point on what a bastard he really is quite early on with the tower etc. I'd say he was much easier to hate and much more effective as a classic villain, but most of what we saw of him was what he wanted us to see: the mighty ruler, even when he did evil things. It just looked like there was no way to crush him and show the petty human underneath in the way that Rapture's downfall had broken Ryan. Tho maybe I missed some audio logs from him in the alternate universe where Vox tore down the place.

Ryan was very distanced for most of the game, rarely talking to us directly and never actually showing himself, and most of what we learn about him was about his ideology and political issues via audio logs. But I also got the impression that was his past and the man now was just a paranoid bitter old man cowering in some bunker dying a miserable death on the outside slower than on the inside. It also kinda trivialized him for me as just another boss broken by the downfall of Rapture, the next obstacle for getting off the city, and it seems the devs knew that and threw in Fontaine who IMO made a hilarious mustache-twirling villain.
Bioshock 2's audio logs definitely helped in showing Ryan's human side and how much he felt personally attacked by another ideology succeeding, which made him a more complete character for me - but I dunno if that made him a better villain.
Reply
:iconyahtzeefan:
yahtzeefan Featured By Owner Apr 29, 2013
My! Quite a thorough response! I can see how your responses to my mild criticisms can be valid, especially with the way took a gander at Ryan and Comstock.

I feel like good ol' Yahtzee summarized my thoughts on the two quite well, albeit me actually liking Comstock for all his racist craziness and him kinda passing over the creepy vibe between him and Booker (ho ho). And he how used a picture of Santa Claus to represent Comstock. :p

"What's disappointing is that the villain is basically just a racist nutter who wants to blow up the world. I listen to him frothing about how his carpet made of black people should be grateful he hasn't trod in any dog shit lately, and he becomes hard to take seriously. The truly great villain is one who talks sense. Andrew Ryan had some weird ideas about sweat ownership, but he was articulate, dangerously intelligent, and wouldn't let someone like Comstock run the fucking hot tap."

Also, more Evangelion-related stuff for this game: [link]

And now, somebody also threw in a Madoka thing as well! Check it: [link]
Reply
:iconmarikbentusi:
MarikBentusi Featured By Owner Apr 29, 2013
When a franchise gives me so much to talk about, I find it hard to stop myself. :V

Comstock was kind of a mix of the previous two Bioshock villains Fontaine and Lamb. Fontaine was just a power-hungry nutter that probably wanted to blow up/conquer the world. Lamb wanted to rule through her daughter that she built up to be the next messiah of her pseudo-religion.

Ryan was more of an antagonist without an ultimate goal IMO, he just built his city and then, upon seeing how much his philosophy sucked once the human factor got involved, utterly failed to fight back the shit tsunami. I certainly wouldn't call him dangerously intelligent seeing how completely and quickly crushed he was by both Lamb and especially Fontaine as soon as they started trying. I will say tho he liked to portray himself as highly intelligent.
If anything I'd say Comstock's the one with dangerous intellect, seeing how he's brainwashed an entire city into worshiping him and could control them with mere words and belief, and even would have put up an effective defense against Vox and Booker if the latter hadn't had access to infinite respawns and a reality warper. Heck, he even came close to winning despite both of those things until Old Elizabeth got involved.

I'd definitely say he had a much more practical or "realistic" perspective than Ryan who wanted to sit on the throne without making any rulings and hoped problems like "nobody wants to scrub the toilets" and "what if rebellion" would magically fix themselves. His biggest problem was probably that he had no clue about how people work, or else he would've seen a lot of shit coming and wouldn't have had ignored psychology in its entirety until inviting people like Lamb became a necessity.
Comstock on the other hand could play people like puppets and had some real perspective and plans beyond "let's build our own secret club".

Oh and nice pics!
Reply
:iconyahtzeefan:
yahtzeefan Featured By Owner Jul 2, 2013
Hey, time for a little question! When you meant Comstock as a Classic Villain, did you mean the TV Tropes description? If so, what vices do you think Comstock would represent?
Reply
:iconmarikbentusi:
MarikBentusi Featured By Owner Jul 3, 2013
Nah, I just meant "classic villain" in that he was pretty much just the Evil Emperor/Mad King set to destroy the world. He wasn't misunderstood, no well-intentioned extremist and didn't even himself believe in the religious stuff he told the people that he tricked into serving him. Or at least he knows the difference between archangels and quantum physics and has a messiah complex.
Tho I guess you could make the argument his big twist is that he's a hero in an alternate time line, if you focus on just him, Comstock's basically a bloodthirsty soldier that moved heaven and earth to take his brutality to the next level.
Reply
:iconexplositionrooster5:
ExplositionRooster5 Featured By Owner Apr 24, 2013  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
Did you wait until the scene after the credits? I (kinda) puts it all into perspective.
Reply
:iconmarikbentusi:
MarikBentusi Featured By Owner Apr 24, 2013
I wrote about it right there in the comic.
Reply
:iconcharons-keeper:
Charons-keeper Featured By Owner Apr 22, 2013
I for one really liked the ending. Apart from painting the walls with my mind, it felt meaningful. Everything came down to that moment in history, and he returned and made the ultimate choice. Yes it's sad, lacking of choice for the player and left me a bit empty. But that's the point: The choice was already made. What happened in the story was not a cause, but an effect. Consequences of what was already done.

And I actually liked the guitar playing^^ It was written [We are connecting] all over it:P
Reply
:iconmarikbentusi:
MarikBentusi Featured By Owner Apr 22, 2013
In the middle of a bloody, gritty revolution, it felt like an out-of-place Disney scene for me.

The baptism metaphor was the only round thing about the ending in my opinion. In fact, playing Infinite the second time makes me really aware of how much of a mind-broken hull bent on world destruction Elizabeth has really become by the end of the game. During the Hall of Heroes section she literally says: "A choice is better than none, Mr. DeWitt. No matter the outcome."
Which is the ultimate antithesis to her later removing the baptism variable completely.
Reply
:iconhornsofhattin:
hornsofhattin Featured By Owner Apr 19, 2013
To be honest I haven't felt quite as angry/underwhelmed by an ending since watching the original and the end of evangelion, and I hated both to death.

I was expecting a tragic ending (with either Booker or Elizabeth dying), but a tragic ending at least makes you sob a little because one of your favorite characters paid the ultimate sacrifice in order to carry out his or her quest. Here I got nothing, or rather I should say I got nothing but a dazing and confusing feeling. There is no proof the events of the game ever transpired and even if they did, what would it have mattered? Booker could have just as well conjured it all in some drunken stupor.
Reply
:iconmarikbentusi:
MarikBentusi Featured By Owner Apr 19, 2013
Well even if it all happened as fans laid it out, (at least for me) it basically comes down to:

Comstock: "Haha, in my evil ending I shall brainwash you to destroy the world for the benefit of a city!"
Elizabeth: "Not if in my good ending unleashing my powers suddenly makes me destroy infinite worlds for the (maybe) benefit of two people!"

EoE is its own beast, but for all the weird symbolism and pseudophilosophy at least shit happened. In Infinite shit... might have happened? But it was undone? But there's a paradox? And they cut to black so it's unclear if shit really did happen...?
I mean I can see how it makes poetic sense with baptism and rebirth, but once I leave that area things start getting veeery wobbly and I can't see how it's worth it.
Reply
:iconhornsofhattin:
hornsofhattin Featured By Owner Apr 19, 2013
Pretty much though like I said, I couldn't care less for Evangelion. Booker and Elizabeth has Shinji and Asuka beat as far as wondering what happens to them. I care more for what happens to the above two which makes the ending all the more underwhelming. Yes, it certainly is its own beast.
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:iconparagonspar:
Paragonspar Featured By Owner Apr 18, 2013  Hobbyist Artist
:iconfeelplz: I know bro
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:icondevwan:
devwan Featured By Owner Apr 18, 2013
Bwahaha, these were almost exactly my reactions too! This game left me so sad and empty.

I love how you sketched this :D and also featured your work on my blog.
Reply
:iconmarikbentusi:
MarikBentusi Featured By Owner Apr 18, 2013
Why thank you kindly! :3
Reply
:icontracybandit:
TracyBandit Featured By Owner Apr 17, 2013  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
This.... is the best illustration of a reaction to this game EVER!!! I agree SOOOOOOO much!!!! *brain explodes* After the ending, I just sat there in stunned/hurt silence for about 20 minutes....
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:iconpiecesofshit:
PIECESOFSHIT Featured By Owner Apr 16, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
same experience as mine lol,i expected that he gonna say:let's go to paris,my daughter(maybe?)
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:icongameguy199:
gameguy199 Featured By Owner Apr 14, 2013  Student Writer
WOW THIS IS SO CUTE; AND ACCURATE!!!
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:iconreplicatorfifth:
ReplicatorFifth Featured By Owner Apr 10, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
the uniquely Bioshock stages of game play XD this mirrors almost exactly how I experienced it lol
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:iconayeshaphantomess:
AyeshaPhantomess Featured By Owner Apr 7, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
May I also point out that Booker had the ability to use the bathysphere, therefore having the genetic code of Andrew Ryan or someone of his inner circle. Therefore, Rapture wouldn't have existed either, or it would at least be greatly altered. This makes me believe that there is at least one Booker and Anna still alive somewhere out there, just because Rapture has to happen...right? It has too... :iconcryforeverplz:
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:iconmarikbentusi:
MarikBentusi Featured By Owner Apr 7, 2013
...were the bathyspheres rigged in addition to the vita-chambers? Then how did Cohen manipulate the system and why wasn't the guy in the beginning that wanted to meet you (but got killed by that spider splicer) waaaay more surprised that a bathysphere is operational at all?
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:iconayeshaphantomess:
AyeshaPhantomess Featured By Owner Apr 7, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
Well the bathyspheres, once things went to hell, were fixed so that only Ryan and those in his inner circle could use them, Sander Cohen being one of his inner circle. The guy would be surprised it was working because Ryan's inner circle wouldn't be using them, since they would want to stay in Rapture, or Ryan would pressure them to stay in Rapture and they were probably too spliced to leave anyway. So it would have been a long time he would have seen them working at all, therefore probably assuming they were all just broken. Maybe. just guessing here. Also, they've been sitting around rusting for a while...
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:iconprocrastinatingstill:
ProcrastinatingStill Featured By Owner Apr 6, 2013
This chart should help explain what exactly goes on in Bioshock:Infinite [link]
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:iconmarikbentusi:
MarikBentusi Featured By Owner Apr 6, 2013
That's just the events of the game.

What are you trying to tell me?
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:iconprocrastinatingstill:
ProcrastinatingStill Featured By Owner Apr 6, 2013
Just in case you are confused about what was going on.
Reply
:iconarabesque91:
Arabesque91 Featured By Owner Apr 5, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Here's my slightly happier theory. Elizabeth uses her reality bending powers to kill the Booker that became Comstock. Therefore, retroactively Anna was never taken so Booker never went to Columbia and met Elizabeth and, thus, never died.

And so he wakes up in the after-credits scene back with Anna because the events of the game now never happened. When he wakes up, the way he says Anna makes me think it's the same Booker we've been playing as. The only problem is...Elizabeth now doesn't exist *curls up into a ball and sobs*
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:iconmarikbentusi:
MarikBentusi Featured By Owner Apr 6, 2013
Well, maybe it's the same Booker. His one line wasn't that definitive and if he was supposed to have been an exception in the first place, it's weird that Elizabeth drowned him at all. But then again, considering the mix of metaphor-ing and time-travelling and reality warping at the end...
Elizabeth's kinda left ambiguous on purpose, isn't she? Cuts to black before we see if she vanishes with that last tune. Well if the other Elizabeths really were eradicated and didn't just warp out the same way they warped in. Tho the scene certainly made it look like they died.
I mean Elizabeth's a reality warper by then that can create new universes, surely if she has the power to exempt Booker from eradication, she can do the same thing for herself.

But either way she'll have sacrificed everything ever related to a Comstock-route and the trade-off is timeline with the same problems she tried to get rid of. :/

I do wonder why 2k left the ending so ambiguous, wasn't their style with the previous Bioshocks. Tho I also don't figure they're the type to release a "true" ending later or a sequel with the same characters. Then again, Infinite probably had the most character focus of all the Bioshocks, so who knows.
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:iconarabesque91:
Arabesque91 Featured By Owner Apr 6, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
That's a good point though, yeah, it's totally ambiguous what happened to her. What I wonder about is if the Luteces still exist. They retroactively shouldn't exist but then they're pretty much outside of all that. (I like to imagine them continuing to troll Booker in his new universe)

I guess they left it ambiguous because there was only one ending. It's their way of having their cake and eating it maybe. Everything leads to one ending (meaning they can put more focus into it) but people can make it into whatever ending they want.
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:iconmarikbentusi:
MarikBentusi Featured By Owner Apr 6, 2013
Well if the new timeline is closer to Booker's original one than Comstock's one, then you'll still probably have a male Lutece walking around. That probably will never get his quantum physics funded.

Tho if he did, that would be kinda hilarious to see him undo everything Elizabeth's done.

Yeah, maybe that is why it's vague, but I can't say I'm too happy with, because since everyone's speculative endings are equally invalid unless 2k says something, we're basically left without one.
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:iconavenger09:
avenger09 Featured By Owner Apr 5, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
You know there's an after the credits scene if you watch the credits. [link]
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:iconmarikbentusi:
MarikBentusi Featured By Owner Apr 5, 2013
I know, that's the "hints of a happy ending" I was referring to since general consensus interpretation is that it's the wish-fulfillment-created replacement route with Booker and Anna but without Comstock to sell her to.
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:icon0-clam-0:
0-CLAM-0 Featured By Owner Apr 4, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
WE'RE GOING TO FUCKING PARIS
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:iconleiliel1:
Leiliel1 Featured By Owner Apr 3, 2013  Hobbyist Writer
Actually, Bioshock's world doesn't work that way.

It's shown in the first scene with the Luteces-the coin always lands heads, while in a true Copenhagen many-worlds universe, it would be fifty-fifty.

Quite simply, there are universal constants-the cities and the rescuees, for instance. No matter what universe you go to, the Columbia we know was founded by a frankly evil man who warped the dream before it even began, and Comstock chose to ignore his guilt instead of try in some small way to atone for it.

By removing Comstock, you remove a constant needed for a single branch-and a single branch ALONE-of timelines to exist. There is no such thing as Columbia any more, because there is no founder. The city was euthanized from time, as well as all the timelines it destroyed the planet, then probably set out to conquer all other worlds.

So it's not pointless. You saved all the potential inhabitants and immigrants of Columbia from a hell, and who knows what else.

What is it Wild Arms 2 said? Ah yes-"a hero is someone who suffers on behalf of the planet."
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:iconmarikbentusi:
MarikBentusi Featured By Owner Apr 4, 2013
Yeah, there's no Columbia without founder. But there'll just be something else instead. City/Man/Girl are constants, they're there in all world.

Not Columbia, just something else.
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:iconcount-urbonov:
Count-Urbonov Featured By Owner Apr 3, 2013  Professional Digital Artist
You can think about it this way, since the "comstock reality" was erased, only the baptism rejecting Booker reality remained, and was also reset to a point before the comstock reality intersected.

This means Booker is never presented with the opportunity to sell Anna, and there exists the possibility that he gets his act together, for the sake of his daughter, and she grows up with a loving father, and they do one day make it to Paris together!

Sure "Hero Booker" that we played and went through all that struggle never exists, but there are now the possibility for a multitude of possible futures were Anna grows up happy (not being locked in a tower alone). And I think that's what Booker would have wanted.
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:iconmarikbentusi:
MarikBentusi Featured By Owner Apr 4, 2013
But isn't it the same difference? Whether you delete the hero-Booker and replace him with new-Booker or rewind hero-Booker until he is new-Booker is only a technical difference for me. The personality of a different Booker is cast into retcon oblivion either way.

I mean either way it's not the Booker and Elizabethanna we grew attached to throughout the game, they just have common history.

I mean even in the happiest ending possible we get a Columbia-replacement with its own apocalypse potential. If Booker's life turns out that dandy at all. Personally I thought he had quite some positive character development (that he might not have gotten otherwise) and until his daughter found out about his sin and evil twin, it did look like Paris was an option.
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:iconcount-urbonov:
Count-Urbonov Featured By Owner Apr 5, 2013  Professional Digital Artist
I would argue that the reality we create at the end is a better one.

1) Booker will never be offered the chance to sell Anna, because Columbia will never exist, because Comstock will never exist, even in an alternate world.
2) And if Columbia will never exist, Elizabeth will never have to endure the things she does in the tower or during her escape from it. She will never have to kill Daisy and be traumatized by it, or suffer the loneliness of living in her tower.

Because frankly, I think Elizabeth and Booker are both better off never having gone to Columbia at all. I would happily give up all the character development and our attachment to them if they have the chance at a better life.
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:iconmarikbentusi:
MarikBentusi Featured By Owner Apr 6, 2013
Well here's how I see it.

1) Booker's life can still suck in every possible way except for selling Anna to that specific person. He's still a heavy gambler and doesn't have any control over his life because it's being dominated by whatever happened at Wounded Knee and made the baptism of his sins such a crucial point in his life. Who knows how healthy Anna would grow up in that environment, if he doesn't give her away to spare her the fate anyway.
In Infinite he makes mistakes, he gets his chance of redemption and grows from his mistakes, and by the end of the Comstock Christmas Carol he's turns from "I'm gonna do my job" to "Screw it all, let's go to Paris".

2) For all the possible bad things that have happened in the tower, Elizabeth's been really light-hearted and happy once she got out, so I don't think it's an experience that made her life not worth living. Don't really know how deep the trauma with Daisy is (good point) but that didn't strike me as something that made her life not worth living either.

So for me it's better to have lived a tough life than not at all I guess. Well, not like the hypothetical new route isn't a tough one.
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:iconcount-urbonov:
Count-Urbonov Featured By Owner Apr 9, 2013  Professional Digital Artist
You are correct, the hypothetical new life Booker and Anna will likely be a tough one. But, we know deep down Booker is a good man, and I have hope, now that there isn't someone to try and exploit him at his lowest (by offering to buy Anna) he could still turn things around and make a good life for them both. Booker has the capacity for great things, and I believe they'd make it in the end.
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