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Marx and the Global Crisis

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(To be published in the magazine "Ideias" of the Sindicato dos Servidores das Justicas Federais no Rio de Janeiro, SISEJUFE).

High resolution version for printing purposes here: [link]
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DIA-Operative's avatar
Uncle Sam:  (throws off book)  It'll take more than that pile of toilet paper to kill me! 
61021376's avatar
One ideology raised the standards of living for tens of millions of people

the other killed 100 million people in less than a century
Self-Left's avatar
"One ideology raised the standards of living for tens of millions of people"
Yeah, socialism.

"the other killed 100 million people in less than a century"
Yeah, capitalism.
61021376's avatar
You're right, socialism is so great. Just look at Venezuela, and like, every communist country ever. And now look at capitalist countries like the US, they're just awful
Hoch-Spannung's avatar
Although things are more complicated then that. Firstly, Marx' central work is mostly about how economy works, not about ideology. Secondly, this kind of comparison would be very one-sided. Capitalist interests killed millions of people throughout the history, being constant cause of wars (not mentioning social problems). Keep in mind that a war is a great source of commercial profit if it is fought elsewhere. Also I don't think ideology is the right world for capitalism. Capitalism is just a form of social structure, which is not the same as ideolody. As for Venezuela, this country is under constant pressure from international companies that are willing to forcefully establish their interests on its territory. It's economic war and it's a miracle they manage to keep ground against such pressure at all. It's like English former colonial system only without overt military presence. Keep in mind that many countries in Latin America got totally destroyed with such kind of interference.
Self-Left's avatar
You mean the country whose GDP per capita skyrocketed and unemployment and poverty rates plummeted when Chavez came to power? www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pd4tsa…
Or Cuba, whose child mortality rate plummeted, life expectancy skyrocketed and illiteracy was nearly eradicated, when Castro came to power? www.youtube.com/watch?v=imjHoo…
Don't worry, sources are provided in the videos, provided you watch them. Make sure to spread the word, so that there'll be less ignorance in the world. Ta ta!
Hoch-Spannung's avatar
The main thing with Cuba that they are a small country which cannot be self-sufficient in many areas so it's extremely hard for them to keep independence. No surprise they are poor under all the sanctions that are placed upon them by certain Western countries.
61021376's avatar
I don't need to watch your shit, all I need to know is the current state of these countries... and history of the Soviet union, democratic Kampuchea, North Korea, China, etc etc etc
Hoch-Spannung's avatar
I wouldn't list China as an example of 'failures'. Quite the contrary, it's on its way up. For a country that had been ravaged for its resources by foreigners for years untill very recent times (mid-XX'th century) it's doing pretty well. Also, Eastern culture isn't quite the same as Western, you have to take that into account.
61021376's avatar
China has been bettering since the time when it started accepting capitalism; before that you had the absolute wonders of the cultural revolution and the great famine forward.

In fact, almost everything that's good nowadays in China is due to capitalism, not communism
Hoch-Spannung's avatar
That's arguable. China has profound state control over large business which is due to their ideolody and it's a good thing. Also keep in mind that there hasn't been Communism anywhere (you can declare it but it won't make it be - Communism is an utopia as of now), not even 'textbook' socialism as defined by works of XIX'th century. Also, keep in mind that the wealth of modern West isn't all because Westerners have been so great at fair business. They were also 'great' at colonialism, consequences of which we see even up to date.
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Self-Left's avatar
But you don't care to look at the reasons for the current state of those countries, which was also explained in the videos. Anti-communists often complain that socialists have no evidence of socialism's success and greatness and no explanation as to why said countries are so shit, but now that I do, you'll just ignore it. What are you afraid of, having to admit being wrong? It's only human to err and nothing to hold against anyone.
61021376's avatar
Well if there's no incentive for creating wealth, like there is in a capitalist system, and at the contrary there's barriers in place to prevent people from being successful, then at the end less and less people will be creating wealth, until everyone is poor and hospitals may be free to use, but they're shit.

That's what happened. I think it was Pol Pot who bluntly said that humans were  the problem when it came to applying communism. He was right I'm afraid, communism is against human nature.
Hoch-Spannung's avatar
Wealth isn't everything. Capitalism is not 'a monster' per se but in its imperialistic form (currently represented by the U. S.) it definitely is, and it has full potential to become a cause of civilization's demise. The main drawback of uncontrolled capitalism is that a few become obscenely rich at the expense of others, many of whom become obscenely poor due to that. This is valid on international scale. Take for example Belgium in late XIX'th century. It had high living standards, good education etc. But at on whose expense? They literally raped Congo for resources! They installed there rule that was totally on par with PolPot's rule in Cambodia!
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JasonAlexander1993's avatar
Another lunatic who believed the bourgeois propaganda, on the other hand capitalism aniquilo 1600 million fully demonstrated throughout its existence.
61021376's avatar
How is my propaganda less credible than your propaganda?
GeneralHelghast's avatar
Yawn. Typical propaganda meant to stir up people's emotions and make them throw away any sense of logic or reason. Plus, you guys should know that Karl Marx was a racist and self-hating jew who only founded communism simply because of his personal money problems. Hell, he didn't even see workers in a factory in his life. Don't trust me? Go buy a copy of Intellectuals by Paul Johnson and go look for the article titled Gigantic, Howling Curses". Believe me, Marx was a fraud and a hypocrite in reality.
Hoch-Spannung's avatar
If you ever read his actual central work (The Capital), you'd notice that it's pretty neutral and is about basic economics. I imagine that very few of his modern-day critics actually read the book. To be honest, it's not an easy reading at all as any other fundamental work in philosophy or science.
Self-Left's avatar
"Yawn. Typical propaganda meant to stir up people's emotions and make them throw away any sense of logic or reason."
"100 BILLIONS KILLED DOOD!!!!!!111"

Yeah, I know that feel.
JasonAlexander1993's avatar
I already speak the imbecile fascist, who does not know nor where it stopped.
telmoquadros's avatar
Os teus trabalhos são muito, muito bons!

Convido-te a ver o meu site:

www.cartoons-telmoquadros.com

Obrigado e diverte-te!
Cosmic--Chaos's avatar
Capitalist pigs, communist pigs, what's the difference? They're both gonna fry one day X
JasonAlexander1993's avatar
The difference is that you're a moron, a Communist is not.
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