EBF4 post-mortem

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By KupoGames
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So I've decided to write this lengthy blog about how much went wrong with Epic Battle Fantasy 4.
I'll also be doing a talk on the topic at Mochi London in September mochilondon2013.eventbrite.com….

Before I start, I'll quickly go over what went right:

• The game was very well received by players. After 3 months it's still the top rated game on Kongregate and Newgrounds, and has a pretty high rating on Armor Games too. It didn't have a lot of bugs on release, it improves on the previous games, there's plenty of content in it... it's just a good game overall, and players like it.

• Premium content sales on Kongregate went quite well, and I suppose that shouldn't be too surprising since the series is very popular there. I think it's worth noting that the premium pack doesn't really add very much content: just a few new skills and equips, and a Newgame+ feature. EBF4 is already a complete experience without it. Many fans just bought it to support the series, which was nice of them.

That's everything good out of the way, now I'll go over all the bad stuff...


Sponsorship and Distribution:

I went with a performance-based sponsorship deal for EBF4, the same as I've done for my previous games with Kongregate. This means that Kongregate pay me for the traffic that I send to their site through links in the game. Since the games are part of a series, a lot of users visit Kongregate to play the previous games.
This has always worked quite well for me, especially with Adventure Story.

This sort of deal means a game has to get a lot of distribution across the web: a lot of sites have to host it, and a lot of users have to play it on those sites.
EBF4 didn't distribute very well at all. This may be due to some of the following:

• EBF4 is a big game. It's not something that you can play for 15 minutes, like is expected from most web games. At 33MB, a lot of users probably won't even be able to load it in 15 minutes. This probably hurt distribution quite a lot.

• A lot less people are playing games in their browsers, and are playing on their phones instead. This means that many Flash game sites will have reduced traffic.

• Having premium content in the game probably hurt distribution a lot too. A lot of sites probably didn't want to host the game if it looked like an incomplete version. Telling users on other sites that they can visit Kongregate to buy the premium content will have boosted sales a bit though, so it may not have been a terrible decision overall.

• When I first published the game, I targeted the newest version of Flashplayer, and a few users quickly told me that they couldn't run the game. I also used the new LZMA compression method for the swf file, which some sites (such as DeviantArt!) apparently don't support. I reverted to older settings as soon as I realized these were a problem, but they might have also hurt distribution a bit.

Luckily, Kongregate was kind enough to give me a reasonably generous advance payment on the sponsorship deal. I didn't feel I needed it at the time, but it turned out that EBF4 didn't even bring in enough traffic to earn that amount. So it turned out being pretty nice.

Armor Games offered me a very good fixed sponsorship deal, but I turned it down. There's a bunch of different factors to consider, but it might have turned out better for me overall. Oh well, I'll never know for sure.


Greenlight Planning:

As I mentioned earlier, EBF4 is almost too big to be a browser game. A lot of players would prefer to play it offline, without the various limitations and annoyances that come with browser games. So I felt that trying to get the game up on Steam would be a great plan, especially since it wouldn't require much work to port it, as Steam supports Flash games.

A Steam release probably was a good idea (I think EBF4 is of high enough quality), but I think I went about it the wrong way, for a few reasons:

• I felt that promoting the game's Greenlight page during development would put off sponsors of the web version, so I only started after the web version was published. It turns out Kongregate wasn't bothered by the game being released on Steam, and they wouldn't have minded if I started the Greenlight campaign much earlier. Oops.

• I also didn't realize that Greenlight is very accepting of unfinished games. I should have definitively put EBF4 up on Greenlight months earlier.

• I felt that having a free web version of EBF4 would generate interest in the game, which would later translate into Greenlight votes. Well, EBF4 didn't distribute very well, so that was unhelpful. But more importantly, it turns out that it's hard to get hyped over an upcoming Steam game that's already available (mostly) for free. Maybe I should have done what Binding of Isaac and VVVVVV did, which was releasing only a demo of the game online. I didn't really want to risk that though, since the web version was still pretty profitable, and there was no guarantee that the game would get on Steam anyway.

Currently, EBF4 is collecting votes very slowly. If it does ever get through Greenlight, it's going to take over a year. I wouldn't get my hopes up.
I am still considering implementing the extra content that I planned for the Steam version, and instead selling the game on some other service, or selling it myself. We'll see.


Losing Saved Games:

A massive problem that EBF4 still faces is that saved games are being deleted, either by browsers, computer cleaning tools, or occasionally site updates.
I already knew this could be an issue, but it's getting worse over the years as browsers are becoming more ready to delete your cookies. And it's particularly devastating in EBF4, as the game can take as long as 20 hours to finish.

I thought Kongregate's API would have a cloud saving feature, but it turns out they don't. I was really planning on them having it. Armor Games' API has one though, so there's another reason I could have went with them for sponsorship.

I'm actually surprised that EBF4 manages to hold the spot of highest rated game on Kongregate despite this massive problem.


Data Mining:

So collecting data from everyone who plays your games is pretty cool. I like to track data to find out what sites users are playing my games on, what settings they use, where they die, what items they use, what their highscores are, what languages they speak, and so on. It's great for balancing game difficulty, or learning who your users are so you can market stuff better.

It turns out that finding a reliable data tracking service is rather difficult though. I used Mochi Analytics for collecting data for Adventure Story, and was quite satisfied with them until their service went down for a few months. I eventually got all the missing data back, so that was awesome. But they no longer do custom data tracking, because developers over-used it and it wasn't profitable. That should have taught me not to rely too heavily on similar services, but I didn't take the warning.

For EBF4, I decided to use Playtomic to track data. It all worked well, and their graphs and heatmaps and all that were awesome. But then their service went down without warning or explanation, and I just assumed it would be back up soon. But nope, they went out of business just as EBF4 was being published. I got a bit of data during beta testing, but after that, I've got no data on EBF4.

That was a total disaster, and it could have easily been avoided if I used more than one data tracking service. I am mega disappointed.


Translations:

I spent around a month organizing a team of fans and refactoring code to translate EBF4 into Spanish, Portuguese, German and French.
It was an educational experience, but whether or not it was worth doing otherwise is unclear. It was quite time consuming because the game wasn't originally programmed to support multiple languages.

Since I don't have any data from Playtomic, I have no way of knowing how many people actually played the game in other languages, and therefor I don't know if it's something I should try doing again in the future or not. So that really sucks.


Conclusion:

Anyway, EBF4 still earned me around $60K (so far), so I shouldn't complain too much. That's not too bad for 1 year's work, but it's not terribly good either.
It's definitely not enough for me to continue with a series that I'm getting bored of.

I'm taking a break from Flash games now. I don't know whether I should try to sell an expanded version of EBF4, if sequels to Bullet Heaven and Adventure Story are worth making or not, or if I should finally move on to mobile games and ditch Flash entirely. I'll worry about that once I get my social life sorted out.
Published:
© 2013 - 2021 KupoGames
Comments167
anonymous's avatar
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HeimdallOfGallifrey's avatar
A friend introduced me to EBF3 a while ago, and I thought it looked quite interesting. I've since come across EBF4 and I loved it - it has great graphics, a nice storyline, nice characters, nice equips, good gameplay, interesting maps and enemies: it's certainly one of my favourite RPGs. Personally I wasn't affected by any loss of saved games as I have a fair knowledge of cookies etc. and don't have any computer cleanup programs. I was also quite excited when I managed to transfer my saved games between computers, although that's beside the point.

I'd love to see an EBF5. I would say that if you are going to make more games in this series, then by all means, make them in Flash, but an additonal offline version in Java or a similar language would solve the problems of page load times (aside from the initial download time) and loss of saved games. One option might be to provide a free online version, plus a premium offline version with a few extra features (although I'm sure you've thought of this already).

Finally, I love how EBF4 was so much more developed than EBF3 (don't get me wrong, I love EBF3 and have reeaarlyy neeaarlyy finished it) - the graphics were cleaner, the map was a useful addition and made the world seem more real, plus the percentages for the weaknesses and strengths made me think a lot about what equipment/skills I was using.

Whatever you do, I'll still be searching Google every month or so for "EBF5".
cat-emote for Amulet-Cross 
Then "EBF4", and I'll play it all over again.

Hey, that was a pretty good ending!
I liked the part about the cats.
KupoGames's avatar
Thanks, but this blog is kind of old, a lot has changed since I wrote this!
HeimdallOfGallifrey's avatar
Yeah, since commenting I noticed your website and twitter feed. Oops...oh well, I love the games anyway ☺
Boonool's avatar
Hello, I started playing this ebf4 again and bought the premium pack. But there is a problem, when you buy the premium are you supposed to start out with the new armor or are you supposed the buy them from the shops?
KupoGames's avatar
You have to find it.
Phoenix8640's avatar
Kupo, I love your games. Though I will admit that losing your saved data is a devastating problem, you can install some stuff on your computer (free stuff) like Wondershare Data recovery. I had beaten the first boss for the second time, so  I was really bummed to lose all my data, but I managed to bring my data back up to the point right before the Godcat Battle. I gotta say, though. I felt the greatest jump in quality was from EBF2 to EBF3. I love all your games, though. EBF4 is much better than EBF3, in my opinion, and if you had released EBF3 a the same time you did EBF4, then cookie deleting still would have been a major problem. Every game has a different feeling to it. I love games where you can see things from the character's point of view, like Shadow of the Colossus. It's like you're in a whole new world (Aladdin lol). Your games have a unique type to them, and I've played basically all your game, including the overworld maps. I don't want your series to be too long-running, like Final Fantasy, but please don't end it just because of a few setbacks. I love the bosses, I love the characters, I love the enemies, I love the music (well, that's HalcyonicFalconX's, but still), I love the maps, I love the puzzles, I love everything. Your games are amazing. There aren't too many artists out there that can basically do everything him or herself for a giant game like this. You' re funny, likeable guy, which helps you on your way to making a happy game like the EBF series that can make people laugh, smile, and enjoy themselves. I have nothing but praise for your games, and have earned all the achievements and medals for EBF3 and EB4, and I'm STILL playing the games! I doubt you should make a sequel to Bullet Heaven, I have the feeling it won't go well. However, a sequel to Adventure Story would be nice. I don't think you should add bonus content for it though. I bought the bonus content for EBF4 and I loved it, but don't do too much of the bonus content, or you'll get lots of haters that think you only care about money. Your games bring joy to so many people.  Your fans all love you. You're the best, Matt. Keep going strong.
KupoGames's avatar
Well, the online game market disappearing is a bit more than a setback... It's not a path that's worth following anymore.
HanOneSail's avatar
what if...
EB5 became 3d. with the unity flash player.
Mixed up with some final fantasy 7 or grandia 2 elements.
darkrage453's avatar
Hey Kupo Because your fans really want you to make EBF5 you could make them a deal.
start EBF5 on kickstarter.com and like say
if you reach for example $100,000 you will make it
and you might think na it wont happen but I think you will be surprised how many people love your games
KupoGames's avatar
If I cant even get enough votes for Steam, I doubt id do much better on kickstarter.
RunnerOnIce's avatar
I disagree with this sentiment (kupo's). Sure, a lot of people use Steam, but they're not always the same people who play Flash games. I personally have no real use for Steam, but I love playing the game on Kongregate, and would happily donate to any Kickstarter you created if it meant more content there. It took me about five seconds after opening the fourth game to decide to purchase the premium pack, and I haven't regretted it once since.
darkrage453's avatar
hmm good point but I would support you.
see how it goes getting the game on steam ^^ it's gotta get on steam
guygombaa's avatar
Hey man, I love EBF, waiting for EBF 4 was torture, and until I got stuck (lost in the jungle), I loved the game (I still do, just haven't played in a while)

Please make an EB5, because if you end EBF, I will hunt you down & force you to it.

Thanks!
superdash77's avatar
You got to remember though that he still has a life and that these games take a LONG time to make but it's up to Matt because I at least want more games from him and if I would want anything i think it would be a sequel to adventure story were you could use other characters because that would be another amazing game by Matt
guygombaa's avatar
I know, I'm just saying, he would disappoint A LOT of people if he stopped EBF.

Adventure story could have been better.

Bullet Heaven 2?
superdash77's avatar
I think Matt should make a puzzle game though because if he had to make one last game I would want a puzzle game that you could use a bunch of characters to solve puzzles with like maybe: Matt, Natalie, Lance, Anna, Nolegs...
...And Lancelot!
guygombaa's avatar
WOW.

What if he launched a kick-starter program and raised funds for a full on video game for PC, Next Gen consoles, maybe even iOS?

THAT WOULD BE AMAZEBALLS.
superdash77's avatar
If he did that then he would earn OVER 9000 respect points which means that would total out to 1,000,000!
guygombaa's avatar
1,000,000 x INFINITY
superdash77's avatar
WRYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
kikoafu's avatar
Hey there I ve been following you since Epic Battle fantasy 1, and I ve been a fan of your work for quite some time, personally and this may just be me, I think EBF as a series isnt very competitive at a PC level from a consumer perpective, allow me to ellaborate:

-It Might have been back when you released EBF3 which basically blew my mind, back then I bet the game would have been recieved much better, but the market has become MUCH more competitive in terms of production value in the indie scene and that takes away alot of the wow factor of your latest game.

-Another problem is that EBF no longer feels like a proper PC experience, right now it feels much more suited to the mobile game market, this doesnt means that it isnt good, but truth is it would feel alot better there, which I ll explain in my next point with an example.

-Take for example kingdom rush, the game feels OK in the PC, but sudenly on the app store it feels like the best thing since super mario. Since now I can just pop in and back whenever I want and the game still doesnt looses its flow. Goes to show how a single change of platform can benefit a game. In contrast Bit Trip Runner another ok game on the PC, I ve never progessed more than a few levels because it simply ISNT compelling enough on the PC. But I bet I would ve sinked hours into it, could I play it on the iOS.

-As a personal thought I think your style of games would feel better on the app store and I would look foward to anything you throw us there. Heck I d probably buy the whole EBF series if it was there.

-Finally if you plan on staying PC, I recomned you joining a Team since theres just so much you can do alone. Unless you create some ground breaking game that no one sees coming its gonna be hard to get the proper.. following you need.

I tell you this because I m a HUGE fan of your work, and got very fond memories of your games and really would like seeing you get the credit I personally feel you deserve. (which is alot more than you re getting).
MrGamesAlot's avatar
- Well, when and if the Greenlight works out, you could probably say good-bye to most of the "Losing saves" problem.
- There are too few great flash artists/programmers already, it'd be devastating if we lost the only guy who can solo huge projects like the Epic Battle Fantasy series.
-How much does a data mining tracker cost?
-Losing saves is bad, but I see a "Download File" button on the post here, that might fix it for individual people who don't care about the extra bits like Kongregate's achievements. But I'm not sure that it generates any money either..
-Is it possible to get a "Save to file" update? Or is that too much? People should just stop bein' lazy and search for the save to back it up.
-I don't think it's possible to fix sponsorship and distribution now @w@, too late?
whombat's avatar
If you got 100,000 dollars to make EBF 5 would you do it?
anonymous's avatar
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