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Soviet Dragon by Kooskia Soviet Dragon by Kooskia
(c)Kooskia
(c):icongoogynoober: (commission)
(c) Naomi Novik (world-setting from Temeraire series).

A Temeraire-world setting Soviet dragon: Here some info:

During the WWI the Russian Military has not learned, as many other countries, the lessons of the technology and the Aerial Corps of Dragons were sent in battle with bloody results after the improvement in weaponry and warplanes.

The Bolshevik Revolution saw the support of the Aerial Corps as happened for large numbers of soldiers and sailors: Dragons and Captains were eager to join Lenin's cause hoping to improve the living conditions of Dragons in Russian (that had remained the worse in Europe) that had suffered for long time under the czarist rule (this has been described in the same Naomi Novik's books)

In the following years the Dragons were slowly diverted into civil works, they were an important element of Lenin's and then Stalin's programs to re-build the country, but while a number of high ranked officers were put under the eyes of the NKVD and some fall during the Great Purges, the Soviet strategists were divided (as the ones of the other countries).
Old-style commanders were reluctant to abandon the logic of using dragons as frontline force in battle, others believed dragons should be removed from the ranks of Military , others believed in the strategic use of Dragons.
The last ones proved to be right: the Soviet Red Army gained incredible battle-experience using Dragons to transport troops and supplies were aircrafts could not land during the clashes against the Japanese in September 1939

Later Dragons proved to be of tremendous help air-lifting parts of a Soviet Division that has been cut from the main forces during the Winter War, but their efforts weren't enough to prevent high causalities among the infantry and the Moscow's strategists remained unsure about the Dragons effective ability on the battlefield, and for 1940 and 1941 still no large Dragon formations were built according these new strategies.

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With the start of Operation Barbarossa, the Soviet Armed Forces were forced to reconsider the use of Dragons on battle and new strategies were adapted.
It became clear that while the German armies stretched their forces into the vast Russian lands, their supply lines were endangered by an huge partisan movement in Belarus and Ukraine.

Dragons were mobilized in supply missions for Partisan forces: Russian breeds with white colours were almost invisible (and silent) from above and the same amplitude of the territories reduced the dangers of enemy ground Anti-Dragon fire.

Dragons crew-members were reduced and put inside light metallic structures developed by Tupolev's OKB. Men were given defensive machine-guns weapons and with airmen uniforms, also the networks under the belly were metallic and with a more efficient system of opening, compared to the ones used in the past conflicts.

Armor for Dragons was concentrated on the forward-parts of the body, in case of unexpected encounters with anti-partisans German ground forces and could absorb and deflect the majority of light gunfire.

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This specific dragon of Ukrainian breed is just telling his human comrades about a German dragon flying above (Germans quickly realized that the best way to intercept the Soviet dragons was using other dragons: they could more easily detect dragons rather than the higher flying recce-aircrafts, more needed on the frontline).
On the cabin crew is visible the decorative mark of being an unit "of the Guards"
The same dragon got a decoration of the "Order of the Red Banner", installed as a decorative plaque on the armour (Dragons were competitive and eager to win such decorations).
A camouflage has been applied on armour: the light blue stripes are done to not make the dragon too much "white" among the confusion of colors during wind and snow.


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:icondarzall:
Darzall Featured By Owner Mar 27, 2017  Hobbyist Writer
Hello, I am the creator of the War of the Worlds mod for Hearts of Iron 4. I just recently started working on a Temeriere mod set in 1936; and, if you don't mind, I would love some perspective from someone else who has read the series (and thought about the universe in the 20th century).

The idea I had (so that the map wasn't basically the same as the vanilla Hearts of Iron 4), was to set the mod in a world where WW1 never happened. As in, the archduke survived his assassination because he was riding a dragon courier, instead of driving his car on the day he would have been killed IRL. Some real life events would still happen, and some historical people would still exist, but the nature of WW2 (or technically WW1 in universe) would change slightly.

Speaking of your picture, I planned to have the Russia Revolution/Bolshevik Revolution still happen, just without it being as "decisive" as IRL. The Soviets would control St. Petersburg and western Russia, Ukraine would be independent, the Whites would control eastern Russia up to the carcasses, and Sibre would control Siberia. The Whites would have "Communist Uprisings" like China in vanilla HOI4, and the Chinese would have an focus/event to declare war on Sibre (like vanilla HOI4's Japan), dragging all of the Russia region into a semi-unified war.

Whether you respond or not, love the picture :)
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:iconkooskia:
Kooskia Featured By Owner Mar 27, 2017
Hello! Hehe xd While I do not much the game, I enjoy the concept of mods (I've been beta tester and helper for a strategy games of LOTR converted in Eragon world). And for sure I could give you my opinion on these plans.
Also, I would like to show you the others WW-II era related pics with Temeraire dragons and related possible interpretations:
British Dragon: kooskia.deviantart.com/art/Bri…   ((as night fighter with rear 4guns turrets, a real concept for few fighters))
Anarchist dragon Russian Civil War: kooskia.deviantart.com/art/Mak…   ((based upon the real russian "tachanka" strategy))
Vietnamese dragon Vietnam-war: kooskia.deviantart.com/art/Vie…   ((medium-distanz harassment with fire from jungle))
North Korean dragons in Korean War:  kooskia.deviantart.com/art/Kor…   ((night raids in airfields, real strategy done by planes))

Also I had plans but never realized it for an American concept of WW2 dragons:  small/light-weight dragons flying from "Dragon Carriers" to spot and inercept German submarines in Atlantic Sea during convoy escorts: with dragons aiming to damage submarines towers (and periscopes) rather than sinking directly the U-boat, forcing the submarines to give up the mission.

One thing of alternate-universe stories it's that while they have a "point of divergences", usually they tends to follow similar realistic historical paths.
A Bolshevik revolution in Russia was still highly probable considering the previous political agitation and the troubles suffered by people even if it was WWI that triggered the Revolution. So... some kind of conflict could have triggered it, in some (realistic in my view) propositions, it was a renovated conflict with Japan in far-east.

A continuation of Russian Civil War...
It depends a bit on what you do: a key factor for the Soviet victory was the absolute infighting and lack of coordination between the different White Armies, despite the presence of Allies (British and USA to support them). You could play on the concept of Soviets controlling the area from Baltic to Moscow to Volga/Urals, but the rest of the country (Siberia, far-east) split in different groups (in competitions and infighting).
For once... Mongolia! The poor forgotten Mongoia <-< In ALL the alternate-fantasy maps people keep to forget that whatever alternate history you make, if Soviet Union control the eastern borders, it also control Mongolia!
However if you plan to not make this (Siberia to whites), you could play on the madman Ungern von Sternberg: who basically wanted to create a new "Golden Horde" Empire in Mongolia.

Concerning Ukraina, despite the modern-day desires of modern Ukrainian natinonalists, back at the time, local Ukrainian nationalists were not the most prominent force: because they were also a significant powers: 1) the Green Armies  2) the Black Army of Nestor Makhno (Anarchist).
So also Ukraina could be an ongoing location for conflict.


Concerning China...
Situation at the time was quite messed up, and it was messed up until ends of '30 with a moltitude of Generals/Warlords and personal armies in heavy infighting.
This until the situation turned more "stable" with the Kuomintang (Nationalists) and the Communists.
Another little detail (often ignored by the ones who play alternate histories) it's that actually the Kuomintang was at first friendly and was supported by the Soviets.
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:icondarzall:
Darzall Featured By Owner Edited Mar 27, 2017  Hobbyist Writer
Thanks of the reply :D

I enjoyed looking at the other 20th century Temeraire pictures, my personal favorites being this one (Soviet), and the British one.

The reason why I wanted to split Russia up is because I kinda wanted to mirror the situation with Japan vs China IRL, with China vs Russia in the mod. I figured without WW1 to really make the revolution appealing, it wouldn't have been a complete wash (with the White Army collapsing under its own weight) when the revolution did eventually happen. I could probably come up with something lore wise that mirrors the infighting of the White Army that happened IRL, which caused the split of Ukraine and Sibre in the mod.

As far as Mongolia is concerned, the Kaiserreich mod (set in a world where the Central Powers win WW1) for HOI4 does have crazy Ungern von Sternberg, and a way for him to recreate the Mongolian Empire/Golden Horde. I might look to it for some inspiration; although, Mongolia also might end up becoming a Chinese puppet.

The thing about China and the warlords seems more of a mute point for a Temeraire mod, the China in that universe appears much more stable than IRL. I planned to split up China into China proper, and a bunch of outlaying puppets (like Mongolia and Tibet) to represent the issues they had IRL (while having them be more stable in the mod). Not sure if that would work in the end, but they would have to integrate the puppets before having the ability to start the Russia war.


Now, speaking about other parts of the world, I was debating having "French" Westphalia still existing (seeing as Napoleon isn't nearly as unsuccessful as IRL), and having a non-united Germany in the form of the North German Federation. They (the NGF) would still be a part of the Central Powers along with a declining Austria-Hungry, while France and Westphalia would be part of a Napoleon-esk faction (not sure of a name for it). England then would still be bitter rivals with France, being part of the Entente with Russia (until the Chinese attacks Sibre that is) and the rest of the commonwealth. The World War would either spark off between England vs France, or the Central Powers vs France. Once Russia left to deal with its war with China (prior to the World War), the US would eventually take its place after some major disaster caused my French subs (like Germany IRL). Of course, I'm open to suggestions/changes; Europe and Africa are the most "fuzzy" areas for me as far as what to do with them.


Implementing dragons can go one of a many number of ways; the time that the books takes place in seem to mark the end of major use of dragons in combat, however, I can't imagine planes being invented in the same way (or at the same time) as IRL. The ideas you have presented in the picture descriptions are interesting (I like the idea of major powers still using dragons as transports), I'm just wondering how best to implement them into the mod. Other than that, I already have added in a "Dragon Rights" law set...Fascists will tend to lean more toward banning dragons from the country, while Democracies will learn more towards universal rights. Autocracies (monarchies), will learn toward worshiping dragons (or average-good rights in the less extreme cases), while Communists will learn more toward the middle (average rights). I also added in a "Dragon Nation" law that would be used for a country ruled by dragons (maybe for a feral country).
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:iconkooskia:
Kooskia Featured By Owner Mar 28, 2017
Hello agon ^^

Then then..
Moving on China, well... situation could again still a bit complicated: while for sure China has a powerful army let's not forget that they still have problems (oppium) and thhere was political schemes behind. Also all it's up to see if there will be a military confrontation with Japan, IRL that occurred and it was a first bigh blow to the late Chinese Empire (First sino-japanese war).
Speaking of Asia, let's not forget the Indian Empire! Xd According Temeraire-lore it is still indipendent and quite anti-British in feelings.
It could be interesting to see the relationships with China, but given historical background they are not likely to be nice.

On France, while many saw the downfall of Napoleon as a potential end of France, actually I think the end of Temeraire has a way better situation for France itself!
IRL, the coalition attempted to restore the previous monarchy, it failed (because the French people hated it) and eventually Napoelon-III rose up to rule France for plenty of years.
In Temeraire we have a wise, pragmatic, powerful and  intellient queen as leader with an OFFICIAL heir coming from Napoleon. Plus despite defeat French dragons would still back a country that allowed them lots of equality.


Given historical contests and means of productions and economy behind, in my opinion it make sense that German is once more the sparkle of World War.
It has sense, given the rivality with France for industrial regions (Rhur) and England to challenge it on sea.


Africa is more or less entirely territory of the Tswana empire, following its own agenda.
But it could be curious to see if they don't controll the whole continent, for example the christian ethiopia with the high-ground, different culture (and generally speaking more advanced) and probably their own dragons, maybe they are an indipendent empire backed by some western powers? IRL Ethiopia resisted as only original indipendent country (excludingt the US-made Liberia) until italian invasion.


Concerning the use of dragons in combat, I think everyone should follow their own initiative in alternate worlds.
I tried to make concepts of potential dragon uses when still technology advanced including fighters: this forcing dragons to a number of auxiliary roles that could avoid aircrafts or effective anti-air artillery.

Concerning the poltical ideas.
I would discagree a little toward Fascist countries: if you plans to make the German Empire still some sort of Fascist country (with Hitler potentially playing a role: more or less as occurred in italy, we had Mussollini, but still the country was officially a Kingdom with a King). One may criticize the system, but fascism was extrmely popular (and populist) among masses, and dragons would include part of the population, not to mention Hitler was quite fast in taking opportunity of alliances (with arabs or colonial troops for example) and on a personal view he was quite an ecologist (and vegetarian). TBH I would totally see characters like Mussolini or Hitler even get along with dragons (let's not forget Hitler was a personal admirer of Napoleon).

On the other hand, it is "Democacies" of the time that were quite backward in terms of racism and integration and rights for the masses (from England, to France, to USA of the time). Of course now the situation would be quite different: France could still be an empire under a Napoleon's heir, UK could be affected by the efforts coming from Temeraire&company to improve dragon rights...

And USA it's the REAL question mark. IRL USA was quite... an imperialist AND isolationist country at the same time of WWI and WW2, and far from being the paradise of democracy. In Temeraire world, USA appears to be largerly different as country, with a population more native-balanced and Native americans playing a greater role both in society and politics.
With this background we could see USA being more eager to intervents in external wars if there is a perceived threat for dragons...
But... let's not forget that in the last book of Temeraire we saw native american dragons in combat on the same side of Napoleon! For sure americans are not so friendly with England....
Another point of divergence it's that while we do not know the situation of USA, a potential external foe could play a game of divisions inside the country, if each tribe/native nation still mantain some local authonomy.

Concerning Communists (that should be as country only Soviet Union) it depends on which leadership you decide to give: If Stalin take power, he's likely to apply the same concept of political control (commissars etc..) to dragons like he did with humans, it would create a quite brutal system but effective with a system of rewards etc..
On the other hand, if the Soviet Union did not completed it's union, it is likely that Leon Trotsky could be indeed Lenin's successor (Stalin won the contest because he pressed to stop military actions and focus on industry). Trotsky could lead a more decent state of life for his dragons, yet he would be quite eager to fight at the borders: both with the left White Armies, and both with western powers.


I agree about the concept of Dragon Nation, probably located in the middle of Asia, and it would surely receive many attempts from human nations to be lured in support this or this other conflict.




 
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:icondarzall:
Darzall Featured By Owner Edited Mar 28, 2017  Hobbyist Writer
I haven't considered India till you just mentioned it, although I don't want "mini-conflicts" ALL over the world leading up to the world war, it would be interesting to make some interaction between China and India.

I was planning to have Napoleon's son (or his grandson most likely), in change of France. If I make Westphalia still exist it would give the North German Federation a reason to attack France (in order to spark the World War), but still not sure if it would still "exist", even with the more stable nature of "Napoleonic" France.

I always had the impression Tswana owned only southern Africa (up to around Ethiopia), maybe I've been looking at too many fan made maps. Either way, the idea of having a clash between Tswana and Ethiopia is really interesting, I might be able to work with that.

The USA is so vague in its details that pretty much anything I come up with could be made to work with the little lore we already have on them.

I wanted to have Stalin (with his birth name) in control of a communist Georgia, and Lenin or Trotsky in change of the Soviet Union.

Although the combat is the area where I'm struggling to figure out the most, the idea so far is to have the combat be primarily Zeppelin based with a little dragon use (not entirely sure about that, the way the game handles air units might make it hard to do), actual air combat craft (like fighters) won't be invented till around 1938-1940. Since WW1 didn't happen the same can be said about tanks (they will end up being invented 1937-1938), with armored cars being used in the meantime. I'm currently working on the tech tree, the tank and air unit sections are going to be left till last, hopefully once I get to them I will have the plan figured out.

Finally...vanilla HOI4 has only four ideologies to choose from (three if you don't count "neutral" as being an ideology), while the mod adds one extra (autocracies/monarchies). I wanted to make the "main" ideologies (non-neutral) unique, that is why I thought of having each one look at dragons a different way. Your points make sense (maybe I'll change things to reflect them more), I do however also have to make gameplay a priority. When I said fascism would represent anti-dragons, I was thinking of a specieist (if there is such a word) kinda mindset (humans are superior to dragons, and a blight on the planet type thing). "Totalist" Communism (like the Soviet Union) would see dragons as a mean to an end, using them as tools. Democracies would see dragons as equals for the most part (old European countries like England would still have some reservations). While Autocracies would see dragons as superior beings that deserve at the very least full universal rights (or outright worship in some cases). I hadn't thought of an Asian dragon nation (although now that I'm thinking about it, it makes sense), I was more thinking more along the lines of Africa (Tswana's dragon-king reincarnation type society for example).
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:iconkooskia:
Kooskia Featured By Owner Mar 30, 2017
Eh indeed xd Sorry for a moment I forgot that the project will of course have some limitations in size and numbers after what the game provide.

However, after agreeing on the last point (with a particular stress for Ethiopia, having a quite significant different background from other africans, both cultural, historical and religious, not to mention their geography as country is well isolated). I recall the books said clearly how the Tswana assaulted Mediterranean. So they possibly absorbed other central african cultures. 

I may be wrong however, but I recall northern Africa to be (at the time) under Ottoman control mostly? 
They are another significant element in the game! Both for their powerful dragons and both because politics: while IRL they were neutral during WW2, a WW1 scenario would place them more in alliance with Germany mostly to counter Russia (Soviets or not, and Georgian too).

Concerning Dragon nation, I would more likely to press for it being placed in central Asia: after all in the books they indeed meet the feral there and it is noticed how they seems to be more organized than the european ferals.
In a way africans are also a "dragon society" but they merged it (=considering dragons their own fathers and grandfathers.


Moving to South American, Incan empire would be obviously sided with France.
I don't recall exactly how it ended in Brazil: there was some kind of truce between Portoguese and africans..
While Mexico should still be Spain territory
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:icondarzall:
Darzall Featured By Owner Edited Apr 24, 2017  Hobbyist Writer
I posted my progress on the game's forums if you want to take a look (might need an account sadly):

forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/i…
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:icondarzall:
Darzall Featured By Owner Mar 30, 2017  Hobbyist Writer
In many maps depicting the Temeraire universe, they leave Africa mostly blank, I believe its because it is unknown to what extent Tswana expanded. If I do create a Ethiopian-Tswana war having one side control most of Africa would be hard to balance. So, for gameplay reasons, I probably will have to limit Tswana to southern Africa (up to Ethiopia). Also, yes the Ottomans controlled most of northern Africa (as they did IRL, up until the end of WW1).

I think I've settled on a location for the feral societies in Asia; so far it looks like them, and Tswana will be the locations of the "Dragon Nations".

The Incan Empire will end up siding with France in most scenarios (HOI4 usually also allows "non-historical" routes to take). I was thinking, though, of having a war in south america to consolidate their power before they are allowed to join the World War. Otherwise the Inca will be one of the weakest major powers involved in the war.


Not sure if you've seen it, but this is the map I'm basing much of the nation locations off of:
amcalmaron.deviantart.com/art/…

I
n your opinion, is it inaccurate anywhere?
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:iconddraigtanto:
Ddraigtanto Featured By Owner Oct 30, 2014  Professional Writer
I approve of this concept. :D
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:iconkooskia:
Kooskia Featured By Owner Oct 30, 2014
Thanks x3 I had made a little "set" of WW2/Cold War dragons in Temeraire world..
And for most of them i tried to stick at military realism and not give missiles and guns at dragons, that could have zero chance of survival against warplanes...v.v
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:iconddraigtanto:
Ddraigtanto Featured By Owner Oct 30, 2014  Professional Writer
Yeah, part of me wonders if the events of Temeraire might actually be, should the history of aeronautics continue unaffected, the last hurrah for major draconic warfare of this form.

I was tempted to talk to :iconamcalmaron: about this at one point, as I've gotten into the series at the first book myself and am nearly halfway through it now, but, assuming the Napoleonic Wars end at the same time they do in real life (around the 1810s), that only really gives around a hundred years or so before the First World War, when, IIRC, there was the first real use of aircraft to fight for the skies. Dragons could probably still hold their own against early aircraft, provided they had some decent armour, but they'd struggle to deal with the likes of a Messerschmitt or spitfire (provided the Nazis would actually use dragons, I feel they might be a bit... threatened, by a giant race of sentient, winged creatures though). The use of dragons in aerial combat would be, sadly, utterly obsolete even by the end of WW2 and the Cold War, as you say.

...So, I suppose that begs the question: What WOULD the fate of the dragons be if this happened? The humans will just keep breeding them and breeding them until the numbers get too high and/or they're not longer useful, but then, how on earth would humans deal with them in the aftermath? Their riders would likely sooner shoot themselves than put them under euthanasia (and then comes the 'Rebellion and Seige London' plan), but if dragons the size of Temeraire or his friends are anything to go by, you'd probably need territory the size of Russia to actually hold such a large potential population comfortably.

In military, I expect to see a lot of dragons working for, or under the protection of, organisations like the UN or EU; they'd make very good peacekeepers if working in tandem with humans, even if they're not necessarily ridden: Non-wild dragons have proven to be quite civilised even when they first hatch.
In society, there would DEFINITELY need to be a rethink on the way the Human Race treats and views dragons: No species as intelligent and sophisticated as dragons can rightfully be considered to be 'beasts'. It will lead to either dragons being integrated (somehow) into human society, or dragons rebelling and making their own societies, with their riders likely going with them into the unknown.

But hey, that's my thoughts, and I probably over-thought it. ^^: Ultimately, you did a real great job on this picture, and I can't wait to see what dragonart you do next!
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:iconamcalmaron:
AMCAlmaron Featured By Owner Oct 30, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
Heh, you just need to keep reading for now; a lot of your questions will be answered as time goes on...or at least a solution will be hinted at. Bear in mind, though, you're asking questions as if dragons will still be only considered beasts with no rights by the 20th Century? Minor spoiler; Temeraire's actions in Victory of Eagles lead to the dragons in Britain losing the food that's automatically kept in coverts for them, and they instead are given a salary that they can use to buy their food...or perhaps something else, if they wish, like a dragon-sized pavilion to serve as a warm home. Not exactly equal rights, but a step in the right direction...by the time of the World Wars, they might be considered second class citizens at least. 
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:iconddraigtanto:
Ddraigtanto Featured By Owner Oct 30, 2014  Professional Writer
Ah, I see.
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:iconkooskia:
Kooskia Featured By Owner Oct 30, 2014
No problem and i've had some reasoning on it too.
Honestly i believe that eventually dragons would be of course integrated as citizen in the different countries.
And despite machines could make many works, the large size and strenght of dragons could still be needed for a number of jobs including transportation and moving of large objects.

Speaking of military matters, the whole series i've done is this:
Makhnovist Dragon
Soviet Dragon
British Dragon
Korean Dragon
Vietnamese Dragon

The one i missed to draw was a concept for American dragons in WW2.
An use of light-medium weight dragons from carriers in Atlantic Sea: mostly as low-quote recce for spotting German u-boats and damaging them on the tower (aiming at periscopes): thus making half-blind the submarine before she's furher spotted by conventional ASW aircrafts from the escort carriers.
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:iconddraigtanto:
Ddraigtanto Featured By Owner Oct 30, 2014  Professional Writer
Indeed. What I forgot to mention was that I imagine that dragons would be quite useful in humanitarian work; carrying large quantities of air over large distances to places where it was needed; it'd be much less fuel dependant than a plane in any case.

I also had a bit of thought on it, and there may be one military situation where dragons might come into their own quite a bit, thought it may touch some nerves with some people: The wars in the Middle East of the 21st Century.
As you said, the Americans have dragons, so I wouldn't be surprised if they used them; however, I would see them as a useful alternative to drones, provided that the dragon was willing to run the risk. It would have to be a fire or acid breather, and a fast one at that; but a dragon has a brain, and a conscience, whereas a drone does not: A dragon performing these kinds of attacks at speed wouldn't end up oblitterating a wedding just because a lot of foreign-looking men had gathered in a public place, as a dragon would be able to judge far better who are civilians, and who are ACTUALLY dangerous.
The bigger ones would also make good troop transports; a big problem with the early wars over there was roadside explosives, which tore apart under-armoured transports and killed their inhabitants most of the time; with dragons, that problem is naturally averted for obvious reasons; you can't exactly hide a bomb in the sky.

I also wondered what China's communist revolutions might do to affect the dragons there. Under Mao Zedong, there was a pretty violent 'cultural revolution' which tried to wipe out a lot of the cultural and historical things from China's past which may have not fitted into the new China; where would dragons stand in that affair? I imagine some would see the dragons as something to try to get rid of, though I don't think the revolutionaries would probably be able to deal with an army of dragons.

Does the Temeraire books ever actually look at America, so we have some canon stuff to judge how the US would treat its scaly denizens? I can't help but think that there would, like all things, be something of a north/south divide on how dragons were treated in the pre-modern United States, with the north being more progressive in their views, and the south continuing to view them as beasts. I wonder if dragons can vote there, and if they can, could a dragon ever attempt to run for public office. I'm probably going off topic, but it's at least interesting to consider.
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:iconamcalmaron:
AMCAlmaron Featured By Owner Edited Oct 30, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
Forgot to mention...in China, dragons already serve as troop transports! Larger dragons wear special silk harnesses that soldiers can hold onto, and they then get flown to the destination, drastically speeding up troop deployments. This knowledge makes its way to France, allowing Napoleon to win the War of the Fourth Coalition a LOT faster than he did in our timeline...and then the Duke of Wellington suggests that they adopt similar tactics, and tells those complaining about it to shut up and just do it!

Hmm, that reminds me...one of the things that led to World War I starting was a problem involving troop mobilisation...I'll need to watch the Extra History video about it again, but it was something to do with it taking so long to deploy troops to invade or guard against an invasion meaning that it was a lot harder to back down once they'd started moving their troops...if dragons can let them move in a day, the pressure would be off and the First World War might have ended up being a relatively tiny war between Austria and Serbia; Russia would have called off their mobilisation, Germany would have done the same, and so France and Britain might have avoided the conflict altogether. 

EDIT: Whoa! Hang on, if dragons end up being used as troop transports, then Britain and America might not have entered WWI! Britain declared war on Germany after they declared war on neutral Belgium in order to allow their troops access to France. However, if dragons can just fly the armies over Belgium and into France, then there'd be no need for Germany to invade Belgium, so there'd be no British intervention...and no torpedoing of the Lusitania, bringing America into the war! Although some historians have argued that Britain always planned on entering WWI, so even if Belgium hadn't been invaded, they'd have joined sooner or later with some other excuse...still, food for thought! 
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:iconddraigtanto:
Ddraigtanto Featured By Owner Oct 30, 2014  Professional Writer
Interesting. I'd say more, but I'm pretty tired by this point... But yeah, I imagine that if WW1 was heavily affected by troop movements, the fact that dragons exist would naturally change things...

Except for one thing: If the Belgium government doesn't want German dragons flying through their land.
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:iconamcalmaron:
AMCAlmaron Featured By Owner Oct 30, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
Fair enough, we can continue this later. 

True. I suppose Germany could have argued that they're travelling through empty airspace, but Belgium could have still objected. Although since they were neutral, they couldn't really declare war on Germany for this...unless Britain intervened on their behalf. Hmm, I dunno.
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(1 Reply)
:iconamcalmaron:
AMCAlmaron Featured By Owner Oct 30, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
On the topic of Communist China, that's more or less what I figured had happened in your universe...dragons in China were once revered and special, but after the revolution they became an unpopular sign of the past.

Argh, that's a big spoiler for book 8, where we actually get a few hints as to what's going on in America! But since Kooskia's already spoiled it a bit...yep, Dragons seem to have equal rights alongside humans already, and Tecumseh is President of the United States (suggesting that his confederacy ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tecumseh… ) never formed, and that this America is much more tolerant than its historical counterpart...heck, the Indian Reserve might still exist to a certain degree; en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_R… )! And you remember I hinted there was something that Greywater would like? One character they meet is a dragon who's a partner of a fancy trading firm, and he appears to be a well-off dragon...basically, the Willem Greywater of the Temeraire universe!

Be careful of spoilers with the Temeraire books...the way they're written, it sets up the Western way of treating dragons (what you're seeing in Book 1) as the norm, and then slowly reveals that the rest of the world is treating dragons way better than them, and so the reader, along with Laurence, slowly finds themselves being amazed at how different things are. 
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:iconddraigtanto:
Ddraigtanto Featured By Owner Oct 30, 2014  Professional Writer
I see. Yeah, I got to the bit where the poor Wincester... Can't remember how to spell the name, but you know who I'm talking about showed up. I was like "Oh god! I know you! Oh no! I'll be like poor RuGarrd all over again! *sad face*". Made me want to do something nasty to, well, we boht know who now, don't we?

But yeah, there's lots to look forward to so it seemms.
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:iconamcalmaron:
AMCAlmaron Featured By Owner Oct 30, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
Levitas? Ooh yes, prepare for feels...much worse than RuGaard's, IIRC.
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(1 Reply)
:iconkooskia:
Kooskia Featured By Owner Oct 30, 2014
About works, i agree..... about military...
I find difficult to works toward these kind of military application for some reason:
i've envisioned the use of heavy-weight in the eastern front of the WW2 for some peculiar features (large spaces, large inhabited zones etc..)
but on different area as middle-east in XXI century, it would face less "freedom" of movments, and thicker air defense.

About the use of dragons on "targeted killing" there is also the issue that dragonfire (or acid) could potentially be less accurate than most of the modern missiles, especially if the target (a car) is travelling or if it's a building located near other civilian buildings.

But the first and most important issue it's that basically dragons are ill-protected by something of more modern than the rifles of mid XIX century
Potentially every guy at close-medium range with a kalashnikov could kill an heavy-weight...

Concerning China there are some elements:
first of all the downfall of the Chinese Empire and the birth of the Chinese Republic was caused by the heavy corruption and downfall and defeats suffered by the Imperial China in the previous century (both against the western power and against the Japanese empire).
IF, the Imperial China will fall as occurs in real history (and this could not happens), the events could lead more or less at the same historical long years of conflict against the indipendent war-lords, then the fight between communists and nationalists, then the Japanese invasion, the alliance of all the chinese forces during the WW2 and finally the chinese civil war with the communist victory.
Considering how rooted the dragons are in society, it's easy to think that there will be nationalists-like and communists-like in the dragon population
If the events follows more or less the real history i would not be surprised at all to see in the '70s the dragons taking part into all the power struggles inside China, with dragons taking part in the cultural revolution and dragons being persecuted (by humans and/or other dragons).
In the end the whole events could follow the real history, if we considers dragons are citizens.

This is mostly what we could see happening in Russia now... with few (heavy weight) dragons that are kept fueled in greed and richness, and large numbers of middle-light weights that are kept almost starving: we've seen that few words are needed by the light-weight dragons to rise (still in un-coordinated way).


Well... the United States got pretty much different from the actual real ones, in Temeraire series.
Basically they appears to have been built on equal basis between the native americans and the former british colonists, with native tribes still keeping local powers and dragons related to their tribes to start their own affairs or small trading activity/enterprises.
(oh.. and Tecumseh is the President:en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tecumseh   xD )
For now the United States seems the most equalist country toward dragons, but apart the hints to individual freedom of trade, it all to be seen if the Temeraire's world United States will behave like the real ones.
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:iconddraigtanto:
Ddraigtanto Featured By Owner Oct 30, 2014  Professional Writer
I see. Fascinating.
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:iconspectator1234:
spectator1234 Featured By Owner Aug 29, 2013  Hobbyist Artist
I like that you wrote what he said in Russian.
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:iconcharanty:
Charanty Featured By Owner Apr 14, 2014
That's not Russian. That's Ukrainian.
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:iconkooskia:
Kooskia Featured By Owner Aug 29, 2013
Oh thanks ^^ With a little help of the commissioner xD I know nothing of russian ^^ (even if i would like to..)
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:iconspectator1234:
spectator1234 Featured By Owner Aug 29, 2013  Hobbyist Artist
aMaSiNg!
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:iconvapolord:
Vapolord Featured By Owner Jul 2, 2013  Student General Artist
Fake, the Soviet Dragon should be Red :D
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:iconkooskia:
Kooskia Featured By Owner Jul 2, 2013
Oh hehe true Xp
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:iconunusualfrenchdragon:
unusualfrenchdragon Featured By Owner Jul 2, 2013  Student Digital Artist
awesome! i love the idea plus the colors! very nice :)
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:iconmrkilljoyx:
MrKilljoyx Featured By Owner Jun 26, 2013
damn i want to fave your art but i dont know what to comment XD
but this one is very coo, i like the pattern very much
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:iconmrkilljoyx:
MrKilljoyx Featured By Owner Jun 26, 2013
cool, damn. its the darkness you know XD
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:iconkooskia:
Kooskia Featured By Owner Jun 26, 2013
Leaving this kind of comment it's already more then enaugh x3
I appreciate it amd i'm happy you liked it ^^
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:icongoogynoober:
GoogyNoober Featured By Owner Jun 26, 2013
Hah! This guy is really huge. How can people feed him or any heavyweight from the Temeraire series. It's an interesting question. :) Though a Soviet dragon is incredible! I like his "red banner", hope he merit of it.

"and the Aerial Corps of Dragons were sent in battle with bloody results"
Very likely. :( By the way a Russian marshal Semyon Budyonny was a proponent of use of the cavalry against Germans in WWII. It's possible that Soviet military can use dragons as tanks =) if will be a deficit of last. :(
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:iconkooskia:
Kooskia Featured By Owner Jun 26, 2013
Oh.. and a Korean War too XD (by NorthKorean forces)
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:icongoogynoober:
GoogyNoober Featured By Owner Jun 26, 2013
LOL! Why a such ideas don't come to Naomi's mind. =))))))
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:iconkooskia:
Kooskia Featured By Owner Jun 26, 2013
Yeah, i wondered about it before working on design and how to adapt it.
But (i've read of Budyonny too) in the end his chavalry charges weren't used for massive front attacks against the German divisions, but mainly as recce and support and hit-and-run-attacks.

From a military point of view it's clear that dragons at this point are more useful for this kind of action on eastern front: re-supply of the large partisan forces, in WWII has been done this with high-risk missions of small aircrafts,but dragons could fly lower to not be seen by aircrafts and can easily land, hide, and then keep flying.

Honestly using dragons as front-line force could be crazy, but there are different use. Honestly i've worked a way for British dragons in WWII and (as i told you) Vietnamese dragons in VietnamWar
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:icongoogynoober:
GoogyNoober Featured By Owner Jun 26, 2013
"as front-line force could be crazy"
Agree 100% Though a such idea have been used by some science-fiction writer =) Heh I can't remember a name of the book.
"a way for British dragons in WWII and (as i told you) Vietnamese dragons in Vietnam War"
It will be interesting to see!
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:iconjeffersonsark:
JeffersonSark Featured By Owner Jun 26, 2013
это пиздец, ребят
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:iconkooskia:
Kooskia Featured By Owner Jun 26, 2013
? X3 (not-russian speaker)
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:iconjeffersonsark:
JeffersonSark Featured By Owner Jun 26, 2013
it is fucking, guys (google translate)
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:iconkooskia:
Kooskia Featured By Owner Jun 26, 2013
Yeah but what's the meaning? X3
"it's fucking good" or "it's fucking bad"?
I've not understood if you liked it or not x3
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:iconjeffersonsark:
JeffersonSark Featured By Owner Jun 26, 2013
it's hard to translate, this word expresses strong emotion, in this context strong surprise

[link]
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:icongoogynoober:
GoogyNoober Featured By Owner Jun 26, 2013
What could be more improbable than a dragon who speaks Ukrainian.
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:icongoogynoober:
GoogyNoober Featured By Owner Jun 26, 2013
Ха, замечательный енот! Прям как я.
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