Lack of Trust Will Ruin Us
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justthorne's avatar
By justthorne   |   Watch
2 689 2K (1 Today)
Published: August 10, 2005
You may link or propogate this journal as you please, or, preferably, propogate the generic /journal/ link, in anticipation of tomorrow.

Tomorrow evening, I will propose a plan to solve the unrest at deviantART once and for all.

It will intend to be realistic by neither demanding Scott's return, nor demanding Angelo's removal.  But it will very specifically set out to restore TRUST to deviantART, and therefore allow all of us to get back to "business as usual," and for DA to once again live up to its full promise to the history of art itself.

As fair warning, yes, I will suggest tomorrow that artists hide (all or most of) their galleries for one finite week as a show of solidarity for our efforts to restore deviantART.  It will be helpful as pressure to management that we want TRUST back if we're to return to "business as usual."  And that they are not going to profit from those of us concerned unless we get it.

People have challenged the value of the withholding tactic (understandably, I think), but the point will be for each artist, and especially each high-profile artist, to assert the value of their own work, and the importance of returning TRUST to this community.  When we take our art down, we impose the implication (real or imagined) that it will not come back unless this situation is resolved.  When we take our art down, we illustrate the potential value of deviantART without our art in it.

We will share the proposal tomorrow, and what each of us will be able to contribute to restoring deviantART to its full potential.

But for now, let's review why TRUST is so important, and why it's now in question.

1.  We have all witnessed the removal of a critical founder of deviantART from day-to-day administration of this site, and we have all witnessed that it was handled very shabbily, from a business standpoint (not even a press release?), a moral standpoint (was that the best they could do?), and a leadership standpoint (that they made no concessions whatsoever to restore peace to our community?)  We currently have no reason to give management the benefit of the doubt.

2.  Evidence and informed speculation indicate underhanded practices and tactics in the conduct of deviantART management.  Follow these links for an overview of available evidence (a compilation by killjoy), a specific methodology (a study by nsfbr), and a frightening implication (in a comment by theseus)

3.  If a founder of this site was treated so badly, in effect having his own artistic creation stolen from him, then there's no reason to believe that we would be treated any better, were it to management's disadvantage to do so.  Furthermore, current management is not operating with transparency about their plans and motivations, but completely the opposite.

4.  We all enter ourselves and our art into a legal relationship with deviantART whenever we submit work within the scope of the Submission Agreement.  This Agreement is completely plausible and acceptable within the scope of good faith, i.e., "no reason to doubt management," but alongside evidence of evident greed and self-interest, it becomes instead a very dangerous document to those of us who value our work (and to those of us who admire those who value their work).

This Agreement is essential to deviantART providing the experience we all love.  I'm not questioning either its importance or the rights we grant DA when we submit.  In fact, I "went to bat for it" personally when it came under some scrutiny this Spring, arguing for its merits as a "good faith" arrangement.

But now, I'm suggesting that without TRUST, deviantART's legal agreement will not be able to keep or attract artists who recognize value in their own work, and therefore the whole experience will be become a pale shadow of what we've once known and loved.

And worth noting, I'm about done talking here at DA.  My wrists are killing me like they haven't in months, my art, research, and personal life are neglected, and even I get sick of listening to myself talk.  I want this mess over with, as I'm sure every single person at this site wants, so tomorrow, we'll propose the only plan that could possibly work without waiting years for salvation from the courts, or waiting for someone to radically transform into a competely different kind of individual.

But for tonight, I'll let the Submission Agreement itself do most of the talking, about why TRUST matters so much to deviantART.

Emphasis added by me.  (If you notice something else, I'll revise to emphasize your concerns as well.)  Bolding for general points of interest, italics for specific nuances of interest within them, and a *** notation for direction to one curious footnote at the end.  (Don't miss that.)

It's not my intention that every emphasis indicates a point of concern.  It's that every emphasis begs interesting questions, even IF only to those of us who don't grasp legal language.

Since the "plain English" Introduction/Summary cannot override any statements in the Agreement itself, and generally only represents the most optimistic interpretation of the Agreement, it is omitted here, but can be read here, if you want their overview of the broad strokes.

So, let's look at "the deal with the devil."



AGREEMENT

This agreement ("Agreement") is a legal agreement between you, either an individual artist or the legal authorized representative of a group artist ("Artist"), and deviantART Inc., a California limited liability company ("deviantART"), regarding uploading certain of Artist's audio, visual, audiovisual and other materials (the "Artist Materials" defined below) to the deviantART.com website or any successor(s) thereto and/or assigns thereof (the "deviantART Site(s)") and deviantART's use of such materials. If Artist is agreeing on behalf of a group artist or a group of artists to be bound by the terms of this Agreement, each reference to "Artist" in this Agreement refers to each member of the group or the group as a whole, as applicable. For good and valuable consideration, the receipt and sufficiency of which are hereby acknowledged, the parties hereto hereby agree (and ratify past submissions) as follows:

1 Term. The term ("Term") of this Agreement shall commence on the date that the "Artist Materials" (defined below) are initially uploaded to any deviantART Site(s) and shall continue thereafter until either Artist or deviantART terminates this Agreement in writing, with or without cause. To the extent this Agreement is terminated by Artist, the rights granted hereunder shall terminate *** only after Artist has removed all of Artist's Materials from the deviantART Site(s), *** and deviantART has received notice of such removal. If this Agreement is terminated by deviantART, this Agreement will terminate upon deviantART's removal of Artist's materials from the deviantART website. In connection with any such termination of this Agreement, the parties agree to cooperate in providing an orderly termination of their relations.

2 Ownership. Artist shall at all times retain all right, title and interest in and to the Artist Materials provided by Artist hereunder (including, without limitation, the copyrights therein and thereto), subject to the non-exclusive rights granted to deviantART under this Agreement. Artist is free to grant similar rights to others during and after the Term of this Agreement. For the avoidance of doubt, when Artist uploads Artist Materials to the deviantART Site(s), Artist acknowledges that third parties may use the Artist Materials as described herein.

3 License. to Use Artist Materials. Artist hereby grants to deviantART a worldwide, royalty-free, non-exclusive license to do the following things during the Term:

a to prepare and encode Artist Materials, or any portion thereof for digital transmission, manipulation and exhibition in any format and by any means now known or hereafter devised;

b to display, copy, reproduce, exhibit, publicly perform, broadcast, rebroadcast, transmit, retransmit, distribute through any electronic means (including analog and digital), and electronically publish any or all of the Artist Materials, including any portion thereof, and to include them in compilations for such purposes, by any and all means and media now known or hereafter devised (for avoidance of doubt, the rights granted to deviantART hereunder include the rights to make Artist Materials available on deviantART Site(s), third-party websites and electronic devices);

c to modify, adapt, change or otherwise alter the Artist Materials (e.g., change the size) and use the Artist Materials as described in Section 3(b); and

d the right to sublicense to any third party any of the foregoing rights in the Artist Materials, or any part or element thereof, subject to the terms and conditions of this Agreement.

e Artist hereby disclaims any and all right, title, or interest in any and all material with which Artist Materials may be combined or into which all or any portion of Artist Materials may be incorporated. As used in this Agreement, the term "Artist Materials" means Artist's name(s) (including professional names), trademarks, trade names, likenesses, photographs, biographical materials, artwork, liner notes, and other graphical or textual materials that Artist uploads to deviantART, and any and all "skins," computer-generated images or other artwork or images that Artist submits to deviantART.

4 Name and Likeness. Artist hereby grants to deviantART:

a a perpetual, worldwide, royalty-free, non-exclusive license to use Artist's name(s), group name, photograph and/or likeness(es) and biographical materials in connection with the distribution, exploitation, promotion, marketing and advertising of the Artist Materials, and the deviantART Site(s)as described hereunder, during the Term;

b Artist also agrees not to assert any privacy, publicity, moral or similar rights held by Artist (and on behalf any other person(s) whose name(s), photographs and/or likeness(es) and/or performances are embodied in the Artist Materials, Artist agrees that such persons shall not assert of any privacy, publicity, moral or similar rights) under the laws of the United States and any other country in connection with the exploitation of such materials as described hereunder; and,

c To the extent that the Artist Materials contain the name(s), group name, photograph and/or likeness(es) and biographical materials of any other person, Artist hereby grants to deviantART a perpetual, worldwide, royalty-free, non-exclusive license to use the foregoing in connection with the distribution, exploitation, promotion, marketing and advertising of the Artist Materials, as described hereunder, during the Term.

5 Payment Unless otherwise agreed between Artist and deviantART in a writing signed by both parties, the license granted to deviantART pursuant to this Agreement shall be royalty-free.

6 Representations and Warranties. Artist represents and warrants that:

a Artist has the full right and power to enter into and perform this Agreement and to grant deviantART all rights to use the Artist Materials as contemplated in this Agreement, including, without limitation, the license grants in Sections 3 and 4,

b Artist has secured all necessary third-party consents, rights, licenses and permissions, if any, required in order for Artist to enter into and perform this Agreement and to grant deviantART all rights to use the Artist Materials as contemplated in this Agreement (including, without limitation, consents and permissions from owners of any elements that are used in the Artist Materials),

c the Artist Materials (and deviantART's use thereof as contemplated under this Agreement) do not and will not infringe on any rights of any third party, including any trademark, copyright, patent, trade secret, right of privacy or publicity or moral rights of any third party,

d all information that Artist has provided or will provide to deviantART is true and complete,

e the Artist Materials do not and will not violate any law, statute, ordinance or regulation,

f the Artist Materials do not and will not be defamatory, libelous, threatening, pornographic, obscene, harmful to minors, violations of child pornography or child sexual exploitation laws,

g the Artist Materials do not and will not contain any viruses or other programming routines that may detrimentally interfere with computer systems or data, whether those of deviantART or any third party, and

h if Artist or any member of Artist's group is a minor, Artist hereby warrants that Artist has the legal right to execute this Agreement on behalf of the minor artist and guarantee such person's performance of the terms of this Agreement. These warranties shall survive any termination of this Agreement.

7 Third Party Payments. Artist shall be responsible for all licensing, reporting and payment obligations of any kind to third parties in connection with the Artist Materials.

8 Indemnity. Artist agrees to defend, indemnify, reimburse and hold deviantART and its parent, subsidiary and affiliated entities, and its and their members, managers, officers, directors, representatives, employees, agents, successors, designees, licensees, sublicensees and assigns harmless from and against any and all liability, loss, damages, judgments, costs and expenses (including reasonable attorney's fees, costs and expenses and court costs) arising out of or related to:

a Artist's use of the deviantART Site(s);

b any breach or alleged breach of Artist's representations and warranties and/or any breach, alleged breach or violation of the notices, terms and conditions hereof; and

c Artist's violation or alleged or threatened violation of any rights of a third party, including, without limitation, any trademark, copyright, patent, trade secret, right of privacy or publicity or moral rights of any third party, arising from the submission and/or use of Artist Materials as contemplated hereunder.

9 deviantART's Performance. Artist acknowledges and agrees that the operation of the deviantART Site(s) may from time to time encounter technical or other problems and may not necessarily continue uninterrupted or without technical or other errors and deviantART shall not be responsible to Artist or others for any such interruptions, errors or problems or an outright discontinuance of the deviantART service. There are no assurances whatsoever that any of the Artist Materials or any part or element thereof shall actually be utilized on the deviantART Site or if so utilized continue to be available for any particular time. deviantART has the right, in deviantART's sole and absolute discretion, to remove from the deviantART Site(s) at any time the Artist Materials or any part thereof and/or to revoke any sublicense granted by deviantART to any affiliate or unaffiliated third party. Notwithstanding the foregoing, deviantART does not control the content of the Artist Materials and does not have any obligation to monitor such content for any purpose. Artist acknowledges that Artist is solely responsible for all content submitted to the deviantART Site(s). The deviantART Site may be discontinued at any time, with or without reason.

10 No Warranty. TO THE MAXIMUM EXTENT PERMITTED BY APPLICABLE LAW, DEVIANTART DISCLAIMS ALL WARRANTIES, EITHER EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO

a UNINTERRUPTED OR CONTINUOUS AVAILABILITY OF THE DEVIANTART SITE, AND

b IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, AND NONINFRINGEMENT WITH RESPECT TO THE DEVIANTART SITE AND ANY SERVICES PROVIDED BY DEVIANTART HEREUNDER. IN ADDITION, ALTHOUGH DEVIANTART INTENDS TO TAKE REASONABLE STEPS TO PREVENT THE INTRODUCTION OF VIRUSES OR OTHER DESTRUCTIVE MATERIALS TO THE DEVIANTART SITE(S), AND WHETHER OR NOT DEVIANTART IMPLEMENTS THE AFOREMENTIONED REASONABLE PROTECTIONS, DEVIANTART DOES NOT WARRANT THAT THE DEVIANTART SITE(S), ANY PART THEREOF, OR ANY INFORMATION OR OTHER MATERIAL ACCESSIBLE THROUGH THE DEVIANTART SITE(S) IS FREE OF VIRUSES, WORMS, TROJAN HORSES OR OTHER HARMFUL COMPONENTS.

11 No Liability for Third Party Use. DEVIANTART DISCLAIMS ALL RESPONSIBILITY AND LIABILITY FOR ANY THIRD-PARTY USE OF THE ARTIST MATERIALS MADE AVAILABLE ON THE DEVIANTART WEBSITE BY THE ARTIST PURSUANT TO THE TERMS OF THIS AGREEMENT. ARTIST SHALL BE SOLELY RESPONSIBLE FOR SEEKING RELIEF FOR ANY UNAUTHORIZED USE OF ARTIST MATERIALS BY A THIRD-PARTY, AND NOT FROM DEVIANTART. THIS MEANS, AMONG OTHER THINGS, THAT IF ANOTHER PERSON OBTAINS ARTIST MATERIALS FROM DEVIANTART (WHETHER OR NOT WITH DEVIANTART'S PERMISSION), AND USES THOSE MATERIALS IN A WAY NOT AUTHORIZED PURSUANT TO THE LICENSES GRANTED HEREUNDERARTIST WILL SEEK REDRESS FROM THE OTHER PERSON AND NOT FROM DEVIANTART, AND THAT ARTIST WILL NOT HOLD DEVIANTART RESPONSIBLE OR LIABLE FOR SUCH UNAUTHORIZED USE.

12 Exclusion of Damages. TO THE MAXIMUM EXTENT PERMITTED BY APPLICABLE LAW, IN NO EVENT (INCLUDING NEGLIGENCE) SHALL DEVIANTART, ITS OFFICERS, DIRECTORS, MEMBERS, PARENTS, AFFILIATES, SUBSIDIARIES, LICENSEES, ASSIGNS, SUCCESSORS, AGENTS, REPRESENTATIVES, EMPLOYEES OR LICENSORS BE LIABLE FOR ANY DAMAGES WHATSOEVER (INCLUDING, WITHOUT LIMITATION, DAMAGES ARISING OUT OF AN ACTION UNDER CONTRACT, NEGLIGENCE OR ANY OTHER THEORY AND DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF BUSINESS PROFITS, BUSINESS INTERRUPTION, LOSS OF BUSINESS INFORMATION, OR OTHER PECUNIARY LOSS, INCIDENTIAL DAMAGES, CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES, PUNITIVE DAMAGES, EXEMPLARY DAMAGES), WHETHER OR NOT DEVIANT ART HAS BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGE, ARISING OUT OF OR IN CONNECTION WITH THIS AGREEMENT OR THE USE OR PERFORMANCE OF THE DEVIANTART SITE(S). IN NO EVENT SHALL DEVIANTART'S TOTAL LIABILITY TO ARTIST UNDER THIS AGREEMENT FROM ALL CAUSES OF ACTION AND UNDER ALL THEORIES OF LIABILITY EXCEED $5. THE PARTIES ACKNOWLEDGE AND AGREE THAT DEVIANTART HAS ENTERED INTO THIS AGREEMENT IN RELIANCE ON THE LIMITATIONS OF LIABILITY SPECIFIED HEREIN, WHICH ALLOCATE THE RISK BETWEEN ARTIST AND DEVIANTART, AND FORM THE BASIS OF THE BARGAIN BETWEEN THE PARTIES.

13 Copyright and Trademark Notices. deviantART, the deviantART logos and mascots, and the layout and design of the deviantART Site(s), among other marks that may appear on the deviantART Site(s) are trademarks of deviantART Inc., LLC (the "deviantART Marks"). Other trademarks and service marks on the deviantART Site(s) may be the property of the advertisers, content partners and/or providers, or other third parties. Artist may not use any of the deviantART Marks without deviantART's prior written permission, and Artist may not use any third-party marks without the third party's prior written permission.

14 Miscellaneous.

a Governing Law; Jurisdiction. THIS AGREEMENT SHALL BE GOVERNED IN ALL RESPECTS BY THE LAWS OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA WITHOUT REGARD TO ITS OR ANY OTHER JURISDICTION'S CONFLICT OF LAWS PRINCIPLES. THE SOLE VENUE AND JURISDICTION FOR DISPUTES ARISING FROM THIS AGREEMENT SHALL BE THE APPROPRIATE STATE OR FEDERAL COURT LOCATED IN LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA, AND ARTIST AND DEVIANTART BOTH IRREVOCABLY AGREE TO SUBMIT TO THE JURISDICTION OF SUCH COURTS.

b Assignment. deviantART shall have the right to assign this Agreement in whole or in part to any person or business entity. Artist may not assign Artist's rights or delegate Artist's obligations under this Agreement without the prior written consent of deviantART.

c Notice. All notices, requests and other communications ("Communications") under this Agreement must be in writing and sent to deviantART Inc., LLC, PSC 473 Box 127, FPO AP, 96349-1800, ATTN: Legal Department. Communications shall be deemed received:

i for Communications sent by registered or certified mail, postage prepaid, return receipt requested or by Federal Express or other reputable overnight courier service, on the date of receipt or refusal as indicated on the return receipt;

ii for Communications sent by personal delivery, on the date of personal delivery; and

iii for Communications sent by facsimile, upon transmission subject to telephone confirmation of receipt.

-No other form of notice shall be accepted under this Agreement.

d Entire Agreement. This Agreement sets forth the entire understanding and agreement of Artist and deviantART as to the subject matter hereof and supersedes all prior proposals, discussions or agreements (oral and written) with respect to such subject matter.

e Modification. deviantART reserves the right to amend the terms of this Agreement from time to time in its sole discretion. deviantART shall notify Artist of any material changes to this Agreement by sending an email to the address listed in Artist's account. If Artist continues to upload Artist materials after being notified of the changes to the Agreement, Artist will be deemed to have accepted those changes and the new terms of the Agreement shall govern all prior and future submissions of Artist Materials. If Artist does not accept the new terms of the Agreement, Artist's sole and exclusive remedy shall be to terminate this Agreement. Otherwise, this Agreement may be changed only by a writing signed by both parties that specifically refers to the parties' intent to amend this Agreement.

f Survival. The provisions of Sections 1, 3(e), 4(b) 5, 6, 7, 8, 10, 11, 12, 13, and 14 shall survive any termination of this Agreement. In addition, any sublicenses granted to third parties for the display of Artist Materials on electronic devices pursuant to Section 3 shall survive any termination of this Agreement.


__________________

***  Important observation?

There's only one curious point I feel a need to add.

Sunday, while looking into the submission process and the Agreement within it, I uploaded a "test" deviation, not a finished piece of art but just an Ashley photo I'd been working on.  Just for the hell of it, I called it "The Day Behind Me."

I uploaded it, and then deleted it immediately.  According to the conditions above (way up there in Section 1), "the rights granted hereunder shall terminate only after Artist has removed all of Artist's Materials from the deviantART Site(s)..."

So, what would it mean if I couldn't delete it from the site?  If the mechanism didn't effectively do that?

So here, take a look, at that deleted deviation.  Notice the URL.

So I don't know, does that count as removed from the site or not?

:?

More tomorrow...

:|


__________________

If you wish to link anyone else to here, please use my generic Journal link so that they'll always come find the latest entries (and five in a row, of course). Most will stay "on topic."

Assessments, previously:

8/06: The Phantom Menace
8/03: The Open Letter to Administrators
8/02: DA is Under PROBE-ation
8/01: A Plan for Action</i>
7/29:
The Minimum Standard

</i>
Comments689
anonymous's avatar
Join the community to add your comment. Already a deviant? Log In
dano-dna's avatar
dano-dna Interface Designer
I'm always leary of these "free" online communities and the dubious "Submission Policy/Agreement". I'm glad to see that all of you have let your concerns be known - all I had to do was Google "deviantart legal review". I just joined and am holding off on uploading any of my work until I find evidence that it is "safe".

If you have evidence of this safety, please contact me. I could take me a while of searching to get there myself.

Thanks,
Dan O
justthorne's avatar
justthorne Photographer
Aha, glad you spoke up. This entry from March 2 2006 details the eventual resolution: [link]

:salute:
both's avatar
The agreement says that Artist Materials includes name, professional name, trade name, whatever, which I interpret as meaning your deviant ID. Now if you can't cancel the agreement until you've removed all Artist Materials from the website, and you can't delete your account, wouldn't that make the agreement neverending?
Camurai's avatar
Just wanted to throw something else into the mixer here but the "1 Term" section implies a bit more then just the worry of whats considered "removal from the site" It states that the agreement will commence until it is terminated IN WRITING. and as a side note that after the written termination is received the agreement still isnt voided until the artist removes the work from the site.

emails or msgs to them wont do:
c Notice. All notices, requests and other communications ("Communications") under this Agreement must be in writing and sent to deviantART Inc., LLC, PSC 473 Box 127, FPO AP, 96349-1800, ATTN: Legal Department.

So if I had posted something oooh a year or two ago, deleted it becuase I thought the Agreement above was a little too open for my tastes. DeviantArt would still have an ACTIVE Agreement from me for said work unless I missed something. scary stuff, we do need a bit of proof that we can trust those that we are giving our work to I would say
justthorne's avatar
justthorne Photographer
One of my highest priorities is to remove the "in writing" condition and tie Termination directly to the Delete function. Furthermore, the current Agreement insists that you have to remove all your work for Termination, so with the Delete function as the defining activity, I intend to create "individual image" Termination, which is not currently possible.

Furthermore, by working with us to create a "win/win" Agreement for everyone, I think that gesture from them alone will do a lot to restore trust. There are practical logistic reasons (including cost) NOT to change the Agreement, and they're willing to work with us anyway, so I think their willingness itself is an impressive "sacrifice," that will reflect well on them and make us all feel better about who we're working with.
LordofOrangesGuraham's avatar
wait, if i say even deviant art can't use my art, would that nullify their rights to it? if not i'm gonna have to do sometihng drastic.
tempZERO's avatar
tempZERO Photographer
yeah, when I went to hide my gallery, every deviation I'd ever deleted was right there too.
Pokejedservo's avatar
PokejedservoHobbyist Writer
Gives me all the more reason to wish that SheezyArt finally remains stable.
KenSkaii's avatar
yeah man....they dont have money. that site is gonna die soon
ralasterphecy's avatar
How did you find your deleted deviation?
Simply-Being's avatar
I wanted to mention this, as it is taken from the TOS at the site I now Use,

"This license exists only for as long as you elect to continue to include such Content on the Service and will terminate at the time you remove or XXXXX!< (Name of Site) removes such Content from the Service."
Now, THEIR Terms of Service, is fairly PEPPERED with this quote, and makes no mention of 'survivability' ... It's pretty straightforward.

In regards to FAQ 226, and a (no longer with Da) Moderator stating that it is there to STREAMLINE the process, "if DA approaches YOU to use your work for a brochure.."
That's malarky, and no more legally binding than "someone's mom' told me it MEANT something else..."
No, there IS something DEVIOUS about the usery agreement here. Especially when compared to other, LARGER, and MUCH more viable companies offering similiar services.

Simply, DA is preying upon the misinformed, and those too complacent to make a stand.

Everyone goes to hell in their own way, I suppose.... Only I am sure I won't be here to cheer them on.

I'll be at my NEW home! [link] and at the Group we've created there :heart: Join us.
Irizzle's avatar
Does that mean they allow people to steal your art? I dunno, I didn't read all of it lol
justthorne's avatar
justthorne Photographer
Well, it's basically just that it's cast too wide a net, and we're gonna improve it so that it only catches the fish it needs to. :)
truthmovement's avatar
wow, that's really f-ed up. But if the deviant was to first make copyright claims through library of congress and limit deviantART's rights to the work, couldn't dA be sued for exploiting material outside of that licence?

Also, in section 11, when I joined dA I asked about that and the mod I asked said that publishing work on dA gave copyright protection to the artist over all third party uses.

As far as your removal, the image was deleted as your deviation, but still exists in dA's archives. So anyone could retrieve it. You're name still exists in the file extention, but the copyright stamped on normal submission pages is gone, leaving the photo up for grabs. There's nothing you could do about it if someone took it.

You could probably request that it be removed, or if you had it legally copyrighted, you could forcibly remove it from dA. But I didn't know that dA backed up their archives and didn't delete the back up files when a deviation was removed. I find this very disturbing because once you upload to dA, all of the "purchase agreement" above applies from that point to eternity, even if you leave dA or delete submissions. I'm not really comfortable with that.

Now, that I've read furthur, it says that the artist disclaims all rights to their deviation, making it the property of dA once uploaded. Artists have no ownership over their deviations except those granted by deviantart, i.e. no other artist can use without permission from the owner. But dA can override that.

Was this posted somewhere when joining deviantart? It has to be, otherwise they are disclaiming these claims, because they cannot make a binding contract without a deviant's knowledge of what it entails. We have a right to know all details before signing.
truthmovement's avatar
wow, that's really f-ed up. But if the deviant was to first make copyright claims through library of congress and limit deviantART's rights to the work, couldn't dA be sued for exploiting material outside of that licence?

Also, in section 11, when I joined dA I asked about that and the mod I asked said that publishing work on dA gave copyright protection to the artist over all third party uses.

As far as your removal, the image was deleted as your deviation, but still exists in dA's archives. So anyone could retrieve it. You're name still exists in the file extention, but the copyright stamped on normal submission pages is gone, leaving the photo up for grabs. There's nothing you could do about it if someone took it.

You could probably request that it be removed, or if you had it legally copyrighted, you could forcibly remove it from dA. But I didn't know that dA backed up their archives and didn't delete the back up files when a deviation was removed. I find this very disturbing because once you upload to dA, all of the "purchase agreement" above applies from that point to eternity, even if you leave dA or delete submissions. I'm not really comfortable with that.

Now, that I've read furthur, it says that the artist disclaims all rights to their deviation, making it the property of dA once uploaded. Artists have no ownership over their deviations except those granted by deviantart, i.e. no other artist can use without permission from the owner. But dA can override that.

Was this posted somewhere when joining deviantart? It has to be, otherwise they are disclaiming these claims, because they cannot make a binding contract without a deviant's knowledge of what it entails. We have a right to know all details before signing.
rotane's avatar
rotaneProfessional Interface Designer
Indeed, your *** Important observation is quite interesting. Whether it's a bug or not. Well, the jpg is still on the server, after a little over a week.

One possible solution to this could be to update the image with say a 1x1px image prior to deleting it. Althou it still would be interesting to know what's happening with it on one of their backup-servers (which I'm sure there are)..


Thanks for the consideration!
Kite-ridE's avatar
Kite-ridEProfessional Filmographer
An example.. DA starts using my material to exibit, broadcast, transmit, etc etc.. and Im not making profit of it.. right.. then, I get mad and tell them to stop doing that or give me the $$... they reply when I agreed on their "User Agreement" thingie, I accepted the terms and bla bla bla.. so.. I take down all my gallery from DA and 'delete' my account.. now they dont have the right to exibit, broadcast, transmit, etc etc, like they were doing before.. right¿¿¿
justthorne's avatar
justthorne Photographer
Ideally, but there seems to be some ambiguity. That's why we're expressing concern.
Simply-Being's avatar
WRONG. According to the User Agreement, They can continue to use your art, your license,your likeness, name, and BUSINESS NAME which you have posted to DA... Basically EVERYTHING, and never give YOU one CENT.
The survivability clause ensures that EVEN if you object, or take down your art, they can still use it, 'in perpetuity'. ..(forever). That kinda explains WHY the pictures are still on the server, eh? What if this young lady becomes SUPER model of the year next year?
Do you imagine Da would NOT capitalize on using her images/name, etc. to promote DA without Paying her?
Simply-Being's avatar
Here's a typical comment "[link] " Apparently YamiYami Feels that his/her art isn't WORTH stealing, or that 'having originals' is some protection? While that may or may not be the case, it is the COMPLACENCY exhibited by many 'deviants' upon which the machine depends. No serious artists WOULD blindly accept the draconian users agreement, While many Young artists might.
Sadly, if YamiYami ever invents a popular original character, I think we could all expect it to be in da brochures, ads, etc. while the artist would have no legal recourse. I don't think that would sit well with any business agent trying to promote 'your art'..

How do you explain, "Yes, I want you to sell it, even though I've already given it to da" ?

:no:
Kite-ridE's avatar
Kite-ridEProfessional Filmographer
oh man, that sucks, why THE GREEDYNESS WHY!!! GOD WHY!!!!¿¿¿
fetalgarden's avatar
Unfortunately, deleted images are actually still around for DA Super Admins to exploit. Da is becoming more and more sketchy and I'm beginning to think that I really want it to have nothing to do with my art work. Quite frankly, Scotts dismissal was a big mistake, and angelo, now having most of the stock in the company, will probably sell the site in a couple of years or so for a big some of cash. ANd who would he sell it to? Well, quie frankly, most stock companies don't have the money to buy something this big and fancy, so imagine FOX or Disney buying it. They could use it for anything. Television, Internet, Promotional... etc etc.

If you look closer into it, you actually have send DA a FAX (not a phonecall or email, godforbid they make it a convenient method, because we all know how 21st century a fucking fax machine is) requesting to remove your account and everything on it.

Be careful with what you post and what you do with it. And honestly, stand up for what you believe in. Fight for your rights.
anonymous's avatar
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