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Boobs.
Guys are fascinated by them.
Through single-digit ages, they find the very concept of them hilarious, and when puberty kicks in the mere thought of lady-lumps generally causes some movement in the trouser department. These weak-willed creatures will follow them anywhere and they will do almost anything if it means simply being permitted to gaze upon them for a few moments more.
The entertainment industries, from the big movie makers to the lowly art whores (like me) know this, and have played upon it for years in order to separate males from their money. As a result, mass media is awash with the female form in all manner of provocative poses and dress.
Many women are fed up with this, but is the whole thing “sexist”?
Well, it’s impossible and indeed wrong to say a whole industry is one thing or another. Ultimately it’s all one, big, dumb organism that simply moves with the cultural winds. It perpetuates what sustains it. It’s only when you break it down into smaller elements that you can accurately identify what is and is not sexist.
An industry that is almost entirely staffed by one gender will naturally create products that primarily appeal to that same gender, but something that is created with the intention to titillate isn’t sexist. It only becomes so if it is held up as an expectation of how a gender should behave.

Let’s use a fictitious video game as a basic study.
This game is made by an all male development team, so it’s naturally going to cater to male tastes. This team all love the Frank Frazetta style of swords and sorcery, so this game reflects that: the main character is a scantily clad warrior princess who is animated to be as provocative as possible and who emits orgasmic groans every time she launches an attack.
None of that is sexist, just immature. It’s indulgence of male fantasy, designed by males for males. Electing not to appeal to a female audience doesn’t make you sexist, just dumb for alienating a group of potential consumers.
Moving on, when the game ready for sale, it is promoted with full page ads in the gaming press featuring the main character in a sexy pose. This alone wouldn’t be sexist, but the tag-line reads “Are you man enough to take control of me?”
That is sexist (and horribly out-of-date). It suggests inferiority/superiority based on gender, which is the definition of sexism.
Everything else is simply visuals and how offended someone is by those is dependant on that individual’s personal attitude toward them. Puritanical minds will see every piece of exposed flesh as an affront to their sensibilities, the more hormonal driven will be thankful for a new piece of material to add to the Wank Bank and the level-headed will treat it for what it is and ignore or follow it without fuss.

As you may have noticed, I draw lots and lots of absurdly proportioned females, but I have never been accused of being sexist or that I objectify women. I’m putting this down to the fact that I try to inject personality into my pin-ups. Yes, they are drawn that way to titillate, but the characters ARE characters, designed only to promote a sense of care-free, confidant fun and never used to belittle or demean.


The Sorceress from Dragon’s Crown was obviously drawn to titillate and is constantly being held up as an example of sexist character design, but if you look at how she moves in the game, you see that she’s a comedy character, intended to look absurd.
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:iconsaintofthedragons:
SaintOfTheDragons Featured By Owner Jun 25, 2016  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
I would politely disagree on most points, and your argument is all over the place. However, sexism is not the same as sexual objectification, and you're right about that. That does not mean that one of those is okay. To simplify a complex issue of definition, sexism applies to how men treat women differently from men due to preconceived and false notions of the personalities and/or thought processes of any individuals of that sex, and sexual objectification is how men see women's bodies or "ideal bodies" (according to subjective preference, of course).

It seems like you're arguing that if you put some personality into a character it's no longer dumb sexism but enlightened sexual objectification aka "titillation". However, there are a couple of problems with this. 1) Even a sexually objectified character isn't necessarily "sexist". 2) Looking at your gallery, it looks like the personality you claimed to insert all went into the breasts. Seriously, I took one look:
jollyjack.deviantart.com/art/O…
jollyjack.deviantart.com/art/M…
jollyjack.deviantart.com/art/A…
Hey, this one's actually pretty awesome - jollyjack.deviantart.com/art/R…
And, back again. jollyjack.deviantart.com/art/C…

In other words, I understand that everyone wants to be right/justified. But sexual objectification is not justifiable in that it strips a character of its personality and is just a body on display.
Reply
:iconthegutterbunny:
TheGutterBunny Featured By Owner Jan 28, 2017  Student Digital Artist
OK, so two out of those examples are clearly meant to be humorous. 

Overwatch Helga

Kinda hard to be titillated with an absurd looking cartoon hamster sticking out of the breasts. It's an example of "yeah, a sexy women, but here's the catch."

Art v Artist

THIS example isn't even attempting to degrade women, this is the artist self-deprecatingly poking fun at HIMSELF. "lmao, I'm a pig, ladies and gentlemen." 
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:iconsaintofthedragons:
SaintOfTheDragons Featured By Owner Jan 28, 2017  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
I'm sorry for the death-by-comment.

Yeah, he's saying that he likes breasts, and true, they're designed to be humorous. That doesn't mean that it qualifies as any less sexual. Like, he's trying to justify it on the grounds that the objectification part's fine as long as it's not sexism, but he doesn't actually say why it's automatically fine. I mean, he does say, "characters ARE characters, designed only to promote a sense of care-free, confidant fun and never used to belittle or demean"... but it's still representative, and not really harmless. Life imitates art, after all.
What I'm trying to say is, the boobs are still the boobs, even if they've got comic relief. That doesn't make objectification alright, especially not without an explanation.
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:iconares12:
ares12 Featured By Owner Oct 29, 2016  Hobbyist Writer
Did you actually read the Apsara comics?

Because trust me, you haven't even seen anything yet =).
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:iconsaintofthedragons:
SaintOfTheDragons Featured By Owner Oct 31, 2016  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
Yeah, I read one. Regrettable.
I know this guy's work, it's all over DeviantArt. I was just taking some instant examples.
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:iconex-he20brine:
ex-he20brine Featured By Owner Jun 1, 2016  Hobbyist Artist
Oh my god this such bullshit.

"I'm not sexist I'm just making stuff that people like me would enjoy. Because all guys just love to think about girls. There couldn't possibly be anybody that would deviate from I would assume to be "normal" sexuality. I'm going to make this half-baked thinkpiece about how me assuming the opinions of ALL women while also assuming that only straight people exist."
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:iconbulbaderp:
Bulbaderp Featured By Owner Jul 29, 2015  Student Digital Artist
Seeing boobs as sex toys is dumb
Boobs just feed babies
Reply
:iconvelvet-softpaws:
Velvet-Softpaws Featured By Owner Feb 22, 2015  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Reply
:icondrake-darkess:
Drake-Darkess Featured By Owner Feb 18, 2015  Hobbyist General Artist
I find it interesting how women (not all of them are women, but most) are so vocal about any character (fictional or real) being sexist because they are made to look sexually attractive. If a woman is portrayed with huge boobs and a big butt, and meant to make most men drool over them, it's sexist. But they don't blink when they see a Chippendale's calendar for sale at a store. Never mind that in media all over the world; in video games, movies, TV, books and magazines, a vast majority of men are portrayed to have sexy bodies- a perfectly chiseled six pack, large pecs and biceps, a strong jaw-line and usually short-ish hair. They don't look at that as being sexist, but the moment a woman is put in such a postion; STOP THE PRESSES AND GET OUT YOUR PITCHFORKS, SOMEONE IS ABOUT TO BE BURNED AT THE STAKE FOR THEIR SEXISM.

Ladies, before you say anything about something being sexist; ask yourself if a man was in such a position, would it still be sexist? Would it still suggest, imply, or persuade that one gender is superior to the other? If you've stared at pinups or posters of a man, you have no right to call pictures like the one above sexist.
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:icon8darkness-seeker8:
8Darkness-Seeker8 Featured By Owner Sep 22, 2015
I thinks it's the lack of clothes that is most bothersome, and the fact that it seems that this is the only way woman are portrayed sometimes
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:iconqdla:
QDLA Featured By Owner Edited Jan 27, 2015
Amen to that, from a woman. (Oh, and well, I love playing scantily clads amazons, so they didn't lose the whole group of potential consumers I guess !)
Reply
:iconqueen-soulia:
Queen-Soulia Featured By Owner Dec 20, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
So it is just a dude thing to like boobs?
Guess I got a problem, hence I am a girl.
I am called sexist no matter what I draw equipped with boobs.
Reply
:iconcapfal:
capfal Featured By Owner Dec 3, 2014
I hate when people claim product is sexist just because an attractive women is used to promote it. Sex appeal is a thing and is used because it works. You can argue on the merits of using sex appeal to sell not sexy items, but the markers aren't be offensive for using it.
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:iconvitamynwatyr:
VitamynWatyr Featured By Owner Nov 29, 2014  Student Digital Artist
insanecree.deviantart.com/art/…
stop trying to justify sexism
why can't you just draw women of all body types?
women who are skinny and flat chested, chubby women, average women, etc
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:iconuwasanopetals:
uwasanopetals Featured By Owner Feb 10, 2015  Hobbyist General Artist
THANK YOU THIS IS GOOD
Reply
:iconraleigh33:
Raleigh33 Featured By Owner Feb 3, 2015
People drawing what they want isn't sexism. Unless they force their image and opinion on real people, it is not sexist. Let people draw what ever they want. It's pathetic to think you can police what people do.
Reply
:iconqueen-soulia:
Queen-Soulia Featured By Owner Dec 20, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
Sexism has nothing to do with it.
It is like screaming that a person is a racist for only drawing "white people" or only "black people"
Some just prefer to draw something, it is a choice .
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:iconpsychosauras:
Psychosauras Featured By Owner Dec 3, 2014
I'm pretty sure Jack already knows what real women look like. It's just fun for some guys to draw them in their own image. Same could be said for women drawing men and dare I say, furries drawing anthros. I should know, being able to draw all 3. Also, I don't think he was trying to "justifying sexism", just trying his best to give a difference between that and titillation.

He does not have to draw them if he does not want to, but you, I, and others can, if we'd like, but I can see how you can slightly fed up with that kind of publicity. I get that it might add diversity, but some of his characters, while sexualized, are still enjoyable and even hilarious, personality-wise. Just because they have peaches and melons, doesn't mean they're sex toys/objects.(But if you wanna get technical, all drawings are objects, since they are non living matter, and paper CAN be used as a sex t- let me stop.)

In my opinion, Insane Cree, while good at her art skills, seemed kind of like a hypocrite for generalizing a lot of heterosexual guys on that one drawing in the link. I get that work like that one Maya post may piss her off, but simply labeling any guy that does this Stupid Shit Straight Boys while some, or most(not all), could actually be nice, smart, caring human beings with social standards that still like to draw specifically stuff like that, is just asking for a flame war.

A straight man could even say "That's sexist.", because of the work. Of course, it's prbably gonna be potentially unrealistic, it's pretty much a cartoon/a piece of fictional art, nothing more, nothing less. What matters most is your work and your effort, as well as mine, no matter how fictitious or realistic, and judging by your profile picture, you must be a Five Nights at Freddy's fan, like I am a Pokemon fan, right? So let's get those pencils.

If you feel you wanna draw in an artstyle that is more akin to real life, go for it. If you wanna go for something a bit more and let your imagination take a little bit of control, go for it. If you wanna go full out and let your mind run absolutely wild and free in many ways, I won't stop you... Unless it's child pornography, cuz that's kind of illegal. Just my two cents on the subject.
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:iconroyalragequit:
RoyalRagequit Featured By Owner Nov 22, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
...666 comments.
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:iconjohnsegway:
JohnSegway Featured By Owner Nov 14, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
Cool argument, covered all bases =O
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:icononyxinterior:
onyxinterior Featured By Owner Edited Nov 5, 2014  Hobbyist Digital Artist
I remember how the outbursts were when Dragons Crown was first announced, while trying not to undermine what their actual (personal) issues were.
This article can easily be applied to other series such as Dead or Alive, Bayonetta, and other games with some character that depict a played up sense of eroticism, and it would still hold the same meaning.

In regards to that crap article from Kotaku a while back, and others misuse of the word 'sexism'; it's the misguided indignation that makes this topic so frustrating, to try and carry a conversation about it.
So it becomes kinda difficult to not just write it off as radical feminism.
Reply
:iconmavrosh:
Mavrosh Featured By Owner Nov 2, 2014  Professional General Artist
I am a woman myself and I do agree here. Some ladies really have to calm down, not every man who puts their own fantasies or likings into a piece work is automatically a sexist who does not respect women. Titillation is totally fine with me personally and I will explain why:

My art subject is almost only male (Well, there you go) and I have had reactions from men that actually felt I was a sexist - just the other way around! I just say - what men can do, me as a straight woman can do as well and I have my own fantasies. Why not? In this case, I am not better than the male artists who love to portrait women with certain focus on their boobies. And you know what, I find that totally okay. Those who do not want to see what I create are invited to simple look away.

On a side note: Some men like their girls atheltic, others like the bigger ones.... why not? Variety is what makes this worls interesting.

Gerenrally people should be more relaxed and tolerant. Especially relaxed... life is too precious. :)
Reply
:iconforcedlactationlover:
Forcedlactationlover Featured By Owner Nov 1, 2014  Hobbyist Writer
I don't believe that titillation is automatically sexist, partly because both sexes can, and do, titillate the other. As men, (me, too) we tend to prefer the view of a sexy woman. That's what you draw, and, at my best, I write. It can, and does, work both ways.
Equally, however, if there is no humour in a picture or story, it is more likely to be sexist. It may be titillating as well, but the humour is part of what helps it to be non-sexist.
(I, for one, am seldom 'politically correct', simply because the position seldom evinces a sense of humour. Does that make me sexist? Maybe, sometimes. But, I'd far rather be sometimes wrong than incapable of laughing at myself, and, by extension, others.)
And anyhow, the sexual, and sensual, appeal that is part of titillation is much of what keeps us all alive, and, so far, breeding. Without that latter, mankind soon ceases to exist. Not an outcome that I would look forward to.
I like your thoughts here. Well expressed. (I also enjoy the drawing.)
Reply
:iconmisakikinuta:
misakikinuta Featured By Owner Oct 26, 2014  Student General Artist
It bothers me more that the example sorceress in this journal's right index finger appears to be missing than the fact that she has big breasts XD

I embrace all art styles; besides, titillation is pure business, it is made to make money. I am fine with that. Art is made for the sake of two things: beauty (in the eye of the beholder), and money.
Reply
:iconcyrad:
cyrad Featured By Owner Oct 25, 2014
It's also possible to find something distasteful without labeling it "sexist."
Reply
:iconsmellbringer:
Smellbringer Featured By Owner Oct 25, 2014
Ya know upon thinking about it i realize that Fullmetal Alchemist does this perfectly,namely the manga/brotherhood. No better example can be found of this than the creator (Hiromu Arakawa) herself, in her own words from an interview, "Women should be va-va-voom!” In spite of this however the female characters in Fullmetal are EXTREMELY well written.
Reply
:iconthe-grey-panther:
The-Grey-Panther Featured By Owner Feb 1, 2015  Hobbyist General Artist
:icongabehellzyeahplz:
Reply
:iconsmellbringer:
Smellbringer Featured By Owner Feb 1, 2015
Damn straight! Have you seen Fullmetal?
Reply
:iconthe-grey-panther:
The-Grey-Panther Featured By Owner Feb 12, 2015  Hobbyist General Artist
I read the manga, and watched the 2003 anime :)
Reply
:iconsmellbringer:
Smellbringer Featured By Owner Feb 12, 2015
Ah good so you get that it's not just hyperbole.
Reply
:iconpony-of-death:
Pony-Of-Death Featured By Owner Oct 22, 2014
I recommend Skillet
Reply
:iconcorgiburgre111:
CorgiBurgre111 Featured By Owner Oct 21, 2014  Student General Artist
I was going to post a ranting comment on feminism and such things, but then I lol'd.

But seriously, some people are simply insane. Seeing what they want to see where they want to see it. There's nothing you can do but try to get them to see reason, and most of the time they don't want to.

Not to say that everyone's always wrong, of course. But people decide what's right based on their own inflections of what they heard, and no human is perfect.
Reply
:iconmushroomhedgehog:
MushroomHedgehog Featured By Owner Oct 21, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
I always refer to this when anything sexual involving women is confused with sexism.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gYKXK…

Caution: It's slightly NSFW.
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:iconraleigh33:
Raleigh33 Featured By Owner Feb 2, 2015
Ha, love it! And so true.
Reply
:iconcyprind:
Cyprind Featured By Owner Oct 21, 2014  Hobbyist Photographer
Reporting.
Reply
:iconsplashia:
Splashia Featured By Owner Oct 21, 2014  Hobbyist Digital Artist
hm?
Reply
:iconcyprind:
Cyprind Featured By Owner Oct 21, 2014  Hobbyist Photographer
Nvm
Reply
:iconsplashylove:
SplashyLove Featured By Owner Oct 21, 2014
At the same time, it is in fact sexism, to portray every woman you draw that way. Women of ALL body types are beautiful, and it's disgusting when people draw them only with one body type, and try to set a standard for women.
Reply
:iconraleigh33:
Raleigh33 Featured By Owner Feb 3, 2015
Drawing what they like doesn't force a standard on anyone. Unless they actively shame and attack real people to be like their preferred image it's not sexism. 
Reply
:iconloric0110:
loric0110 Featured By Owner Oct 26, 2014
Excuse me, kind lady, but i, your average male, would be disgusted by a 150 kg fat ass. Also, bodybuilders. iI'd much rather sleep in a bed of spiders than with one of them.
Reply
:iconsplashylove:
SplashyLove Featured By Owner Oct 26, 2014
Just because you don't doesn't mean other people don't. Some people find skinny ugly looking too. That's what makes our world so cool, the fact that we all have different opinions. 
Many people would even rather see a nice skinny flat chested athletic girl then a completely objectified hourglass waist with unrealistic balloon tits that look like they're going to break her back.
Reply
:iconloric0110:
loric0110 Featured By Owner Dec 19, 2014
Exactly, stuff is made in a way for a reason. Also fake boobs are lame
Reply
:iconaspiepie:
AspiePie Featured By Owner Oct 21, 2014  Student General Artist
Frankly I am a man and I like a little fap material from time to time... Why don't women also ask for fap material then instead of get in the way of me finding mine. Just get your own stuff to fap too. Women do have sexual needs just like men and frankly they should embrace them rather then say they don't have them. The reason use men look at porn is because we embrace the fact we have sexual needs not because we are trying to oppress women and if women would realize the reason we fap is because we are allowed to express a actually need rather then the idea we are attacking them.. .Maybe they might realize that they could just do it too by putting something they liked in their own media. And I am aware that women are turned on more by the suggestion of sex then the real thing thereby they can probably carry out their desires more then men! 
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:iconscottman23:
Scottman23 Featured By Owner Oct 20, 2014  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
I am a man....I hate everything about it....I believe in equally treating others. Freedom. And love. Look below this comment and you will find my two favorite bible verses. Yes. I am a follower of christ. But now I ask myself. Why do I exist if this is what people view my gender...? View me...?
Reply
:iconsomethingguy912:
Somethingguy912 Featured By Owner Oct 20, 2014  Professional Writer
It seems to be the precedent that any woman that may even seem remotely attractive to a man is automatically has a poor judgment on the female character, thus, sexist, according to the feminazis and social justice whiners who propogate this idealism. Even though misogyny and sexism has everything to do with making a woman feel inferior or insubordinate to a man, not sexy, the rhetoric continues. If anything, shit like the Sorceress from Dragon's Crown should just be taken as they are: a means to titillate the males sexual fervor. (not a power fantasy, not unlike the Sarkessian Method)
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:iconsquerelmaster5540:
squerelmaster5540 Featured By Owner Oct 20, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
It depends on whether or not the female actually cares. For example, I might make a joke about women around one group of females, and most of them might find it funny, while one or two find it sexist,while in another group more might find it more sexist than funny...while in the art department, the only time people care are the jerks, and the ones who are 5 year olds. Its widely opinion based
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:iconadlerkorps:
AdlerKorps Featured By Owner Oct 20, 2014
Well, as long as there ARE females that behave that way, or look that way...it can't be sexist, or parody-like.
Even if there is only one female that's ridiculously slutty like the video game characters, then it's realistic. 
Because true feminism is allowing all women to express themselves, and be encouraged as a realistic example of "what is" instead of "what should be".
They're not role-models, naturally! Just characters "models"...

As long as it's realistic, it can't be sexist. Since video games are male-centered and not female-centered, then girls don't view them as role models, but as examples of "other females". They can find and see such examples of other females all over society or the world, even if video games never existed!

So women don't chose role models like that, nor should they if they were truly feminist, to them no female could EVER represent a role model, since she should become her own role model, if she's truly feminist.

Tittilation is lame pathetic and abusive of retards (majority of the "males") and should be banned, because it's just like Pavlov's Dog : Cruelty to Animals.
Sexism is wrong, of course, but it's different than just using dumb characters for the females in video games, because a game is not a generalization. Those characters are INDIVIDUALS and not "CLASSES / Genres" or in any way general for all women.

In fact characters are about individuality, and how they differ from real life characters or most women. So we are meant to play a game and understand-realize that the women shown there are NOT REAL, and purely FICTION (even if inspired from reality or based on it).
While I am against this overexposure and abuse of the female form in video-games and entertainment-mass media, I also realize that they create impossible high standards that most females are pissy they can't live up to (or maybe because they don't WANT to, since they just wanna feel good about themselves instead of feeling worthless when compared to a superior female).

So in that respect, I believe overly attractive female characters or rolemodels should exist even if to humiliate the girls that can never be that high, and still pretend they are. To teach them some respect for the Female Form, and respect for her betters / highers (Alpha Females). That's true feminism.
What the video-game and your other examples do is neither sexist nor tittilation, it's purely exploitation of idiots. Cruelty to animals.
But since no one bought the Female brand, we can't ban faggots from making video games that appeal to idiots just because it's got boobs.
And in all fairness, males have breasts as well, nipples too! Yet they are devoid of sexuality and seen as unattractive.
Or there is a Massive Gay Conspiracy out there that censors female nipples and only promote male nipple and overexposure as "positive" so they won't have to worry about competition from the girls.
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:icongodcyclops:
GodCyclops Featured By Owner Oct 20, 2014  Student General Artist
This has truth written all over it
Reply
:iconscottman23:
Scottman23 Featured By Owner Oct 20, 2014  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
ya know....im a man....and I hate everything about it...
Reply
:icongodcyclops:
GodCyclops Featured By Owner Oct 21, 2014  Student General Artist
and I care because?
Reply
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