jadethestone's avatar

Liberty Soul Silver Nuzlocke Ch 14-24

By jadethestone
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For clarification, the idea that Pokemon can fight for themselves like Liberty and co. are doing, is very unusual in this world.
However, looks like we've reached a point where Will is finally putting her foot down with something.

previous: Liberty Soul Silver Nuzlocke Ch 14-23 by jadethestone
next: Liberty Soul Silver Nuzlocke Ch 14-25 by jadethestone

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© 2018 - 2020 jadethestone
anonymous's avatar
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HEBINGO741's avatar

i LOVE this nuzlocke so far, i can't wait until you add more

whitney has been my most fav character so far

i'll be cheering for you and the her pokemon

jadethestone's avatar

Thank you so much! I'm glad you like it!

Battledroidunit047's avatar

(Disclaimer: I do not support Misogyny. I am just angry at Whitney right now)
wasfight17's avatar
whitney is in fact wrong. in pokemon anime and manga pokemon can think, feel and some can communicate with their trainers. also there have been a few trainers that let their pokemon make their own decisions. 

also everyone has their own way of battling.some trainers can in fact talk to their pokemon. while others actually trust their pokemon judgment. For me as long as Will was their interacting and helping her pokemon. then there was no abuse, negligence or abandonment.

Also Will did not abandon her pokemon up thier. she was there for them and while there was some disobedience. but will is still learning. i mean we give pokemon to ten year olds for crying out loud. also she handle the disobedience and won fairly. whitney just dont like to lose. so she dragging will name thru the mud because of it. 

also in the world of pokemon. pokemon use to live as equals. for whatever reason they no longer do but i would not come pare them to our world animals. they are far beyond that.
jadethestone's avatar
Glad you feel so strongly about this!

I did try to combine the ideas that the anime and the manga have about Pokemon, while adding a bit of my own thoughts.

Thanks so much for the lengthy response! It's good to know that my comic can strike a chord in my readers! :)
jadethestone's avatar
"Whiney Whitney" haha! That's perfect! XD
PatiLee's avatar

I hate to be ‘this person’ again, but… I’m strangely with Whitney’s on this one. Disregarding the character traits you picked for her to be like this – Whitney does have a point. Looking from the outside on this battle Will (or Liberty) should not get the badge. Whitney made a mistake when she allowed for this time out. She should have kicked Will’s ass out of the Gym and tell her to come back when her Pokémon obey. Why? Because such lack of any control is a danger to any Pokémon involved in the battle. Given the flow of the battle (disregarding the actual game) without that silly motivation speech Rhonda could have ended as a bloody puddle. Or she could have seriously hurt her opponent since she was just blindly punching. Whitney is totally right claiming that Will is incompetent. I don’t know what’s Pokémon’s level of intelligence compared to human, but I only assume that it can’t be equal to human’s intelligence. I’ve seen a dog being taught how to drive a car, but that doesn’t mean all animals suddenly should be given driving licences.

So yeah. Did they win? Yes. Do they truly deserve the badge? Hell no!

jadethestone's avatar
I get that this comic updates slow and it's difficult to remember past plot points or be aware when new ones come up.
But I think you're missing the point of this comic?

I mean, as a creator, I get that that is partially my fault for not being more obvious about things. But at the same time I don't want to hold the hand of the reader. I was worried that maybe some would react this way, especially based on comments early on in the chapter, so I changed up dialogue in some recent pages. A lot of these changes, including the dialogue in some of the recent pages are the way they are thanks to helpful comments and critiques such as yours. I really tried to be more obvious of where the disconnect between Whitney's way of thinking is and why she is wrong.

Maybe you can help me out with this on how to make things clearer? I thought I was being pretty clear, since throughout this entire comic, I've had Pokemon characters talk, think, feel, and logic like a normal human being. I'm not really sure why you are unsure of a Pokemon's level of intelligence in this comic.

If you've read my other comments to other people who see logic in Whitney's point of view, then you'll see that I said that I did want to make her arguments logical. Because from her viewpoint, she is totally in the right. And Will's point of view is likewise logical based on her own interactions with her team. But the disconnect is how both of them view Pokemon. Whitney doesn't see or treat Pokemon as people, and Will does.

The reason why I think you've missed the point of the comic is that I thought that up to this point I've made it rather clear that Pokemon are people, too. If you think I am wrong and that I've been very unclear about this, then I seriously would like you to tell me in what ways I could make things clearer. I'm actually asking sincerely, since this has been bugging me for a bit.
PatiLee's avatar

This probably stems from my basic assumption that Pokémon are not people. In a sense that they are not equal to humans as creatures. Just because they talk like normal people doesn’t convince me that they are on the same shelf. Just like in ‘Lady and Tramp’. Dogs surely talk. Normal human speech. Yet there are some things they can’t comprehend even if they operate in the same language area and in the same World, which sets them apart from humans. Not entirely in a bad sense, but that clearly sets some ground rules for the story. If Pokémon are basically people with the same feelings and emotions, logic and all that, then there’s a huge question: why are they even obeying people? If they are just as intelligent, then I see no reason why they should be inferior in the end. One could think that Liberty was not the first Pokémon ever to think of doing something so unorthodox. If in ‘Animal Farm’ animals could have a revolution while still being basically animals, then what stops Pokémon from waging war upon people? You’re right – I don’t remember the entire comic. I don’t exactly remember the beginning and what was sprinkled through the pages, but I’m pretty sure you didn’t mention any such incident as ‘Pokémon Revolution’. Or any other such occurrence as it seems Liberty was really the very first to get such an idea as everyone upon hearing it act as if it never happened in history before. Maybe if you addressed the issue it would enlighten some folks like me.

As a creator you have the right to lead the story where you want. But as a reader I can judge how characters behave without exactly keeping in mind what you wanted to say. I mean no offence by this. It might be like characters in the novels. You don’t need a deep in-character analysis to form an opinion. So whatever I’m throwing in the comments is not a thought-through essay. It’s just how I feel about certain characters and events without filtering it through ‘what the creator had in mind’ to give a balanced feedback. I have my own small Nuzlocke and I know already that there are points people are not gonna like or disagree with. It comes with the project. Nothing is perfect. I seem to be in the minority here with my way of thinking, and honestly I avoid commenting on your pages, because I don’t want to offend anyone. Especially you. Despite what you may say, in the end I am aware it's not exactly pleasant to deal with such comments as mine.


jadethestone's avatar
You keep saying that you "don't want to offend anyone". But I'm not offended, only confused. You say you don't like something about my comic, and that is fine. But it is more helpful to me as a writer to explain how I could maybe change things? So far I'm only seeing that you have questions about where "Liberty" is going and in its worldbuilding. Which is fine. Having questions is fine. I expect that I will answer them in the story, eventually. I feel like if I explain anything more fully now about where things are going, it would spoil things.

But I will say a few things:

  -  First of all, my comic is not "Lady and the Tramp". It is my comic, with rules of its own. It doesn't work to apply the logic of "Lady and the Tramp" or anything else to "Liberty" unless I expressly state otherwise.

  -  Your questions concerning prior attempts at a "Pokemon revolution" thing and if Liberty and co are the first ones, are very appropriate.

  -  As for the "why would Pokemon listen to people" question, I mean, just look at people? Humans literally owned other humans for a good chunk of history. If there was another species out there as intelligent as us, wouldn't we want to keep control over them? Not saying that Pokemon=slavery, I'm just saying that the status quo is a powerful thing.

That's basically it. I think you are looking in the right direction and asking the right questions. I do appreciate your attempt at critiquing me, but if I try to be any more obvious, I feel like I'd just be way too on the nose and I tend to prefer leaning towards subtlety in my writing. Sorry about that. If you do want me to explain more thoroughly and potentially get spoiled on parts of the comic, feel free to note me. If you want some points where I touch on this a bit every now and then in the comic, see chapters 3 and 10, particularly the parts with Stanley the Rattata.
ShadeOfObscurity's avatar
I still can't get over the WWE logo Whitney rocking it only fueling my desire for a three way fight between the Gen 1 starters and you Know Billiam-X Berserker is getting into that ring.

I wonder if half the pokedex entries should add the phrase "for a pokemon" because the way Whitney is describing it they're all just dumb animals and even the psychic, who tend to have a greater intellect, shouldn't even consider to be equal to humans.Facepalm 

Well let see how this development will proceed in the future pages. 
jadethestone's avatar
Heh heh. That would be fun.

Yeah, Whitney is kind of like that... Though I'd also figure that there would be people like that in such a world where humans are still dominant despite Pokemon being much more obviously powerful.
Songal's avatar
You go Will!! Best page of this chapter I'd say, dialogue and emotion 
jadethestone's avatar
Kiritost's avatar
Really hoping for that pink haired prick to get pinched in the face by rhonda XD
cD5s's avatar
I think you conveyed very well the fact that Whitney is understandably cranky to have lost so abruptly but she still isn't acting properly. She feels more petty than this situation calls for.
It's also very satisfying to see Will standing up for her team and saying that even if she doesn't deserve the badge, they definitely do!
jadethestone's avatar
Thanks! I'm glad all of that came across well!
monkeylaser64's avatar
wedward45's avatar
Whitney already earned our ire with her crack about genderless people. Now, she's earned a broken nose.

*cracks knuckles*

*phone rings*

I have just been informed that bashing people in the face with a shovel is considered a felony offense in most places, so I will settle for writing an angry comment on the internet.
jadethestone's avatar
An angry internet comment may be about the same as a smack in the face for Whitney, so yeah.
grimandgrimmer's avatar
Seems like Whitney can't take a loss, can she?
anonymous's avatar
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