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:iconpepper-wood:
Pepper-Wood Featured By Owner Edited Jan 10, 2018  Hobbyist Digital Artist
I agree that the situation is a gray area in terms of there being weirdness on both sides, but I don't think asking for an apology was the most taxing thing to ask for out of all of this. I hope you eventually get that in the end.

If anything, I'm thoroughly excited to see new art and designs from you. This situation proved you have a good eye for design, aha :aww:
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:iconshrineheart:
Shrineheart Featured By Owner Jan 10, 2018  Professional Digital Artist
Flvffy you are honestly a saint for putting up with all of this.
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:iconirlnya:
irlnya Featured By Owner Jan 10, 2018  Student Digital Artist
pff--
someones gotta do it eventually.
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:iconfumi-lex:
Fumi-LEX Featured By Owner Edited Jan 9, 2018
I don't take any sides in this as from my bystander point of view, there seems to have been quite a few mistakes and miscommunications made on all sides. 

In my opinion, I don't see this situation resolving itself unless all parties make compromises. AJ should give you that apology you're asking for directly instead of through Prov, after she's able to recover if she still needs it. And you should be more careful with taking their words at face value instead of searching for hidden alternate meanings behind those words, because that does no one any favors. It's frighteningly easy to assume to worst when you're understandably upset like you have been, but you can't expect any apology to sound genuine when you're attributing negativity to everything they're saying. 


I hope it's able to work out, it seems stressful for everyone. 
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:iconclovercoin:
CloverCoin Featured By Owner Edited Jan 9, 2018  Professional Digital Artist
Since you've decided to block Prov's account, it seems like we're pretty much at the end of what we can do for you. I do want to clarify though that we have tried to apologize to you. Very early on, as seen in the thread that you posted Prov and I did apologize directly for our actions, "We're very sorry to have done anything that left you feeling taken advantage of." As in, we are sorry for our actions because they made you feel taken advantage of. It does not say "sorry that YOU felt like you were being taken advantage of", please try to keep any quotations accurate. And that was my mistake. I forgot to update the design as we had agreed. Since you've brought that to our attention, we've worked quickly to fix the situation and make sure that your design is no longer in use in a situation that you are unhappy with, as well as ensuring that the new owner was happy with the changes to our transactions.

We are more than happy to continue discussing this if you are unhappy with the resolutions offered so far, but we can't really do that with one of the species owners blocked.

Prov & AJ
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:iconsaloiq:
Saloiq Featured By Owner Edited Jan 10, 2018
Hi, I'm a bystander so I hope you don't mind me replying. I'm not quite impartial about the situation but I'd like to share my impartial view on what genuine apologies are like in order to help you apologize and to help this situation come to a happy end. (I am being completely sincere.) Sometimes a person butchers an apology but does their best to make up for it in other ways* and that's enough, but sometimes the apology is what the other side wants the most and in that case it's important to get it right.

Your apology acknowledges flvffy's feelings, which is good, but the most important part of a genuine apology is saying what you did wrong and apologizing for doing it.

An example of a genuine apology is "I'm sorry for selling your design without redesigning it".

It may vary from place to place, but where I am from apologizing for "anything that made you feel taken advantage of" is too vague and avoids admitting wrongdoing too much to count as a genuine apology. You know the actions that made flvffy feel taken advantage of so you should name them.


Usually, an apology also contains acknowledgement of the other person's feelings (you've got that down) and a promise not to do it again. Something similar to "I know I hurt you and I'll make sure not to do this again".

I understand that you forgot to redesign it. That is a mistake, but not the one you are apologizing for. You can include it by saying "I accidentally sold the original design because I forgot I did not design this pillowing. I know that doesn't make it ok, and I am very sorry for -insert above-"


*Some things you could do are putting "designed by flvffy" in the description of Pillowing Moon Sparkle (CLOSED) and putting "inspired by flvffy's design" in the description of Pillowing Sunny Galaxy. The former is a correction because otherwise people will probably not see the credit on the 2nd page of comments. The latter is a nice thing to do as from what I can see, people in the design community don't really do inspo creds.

edit: this page may be helpful too www.psychologytoday.com/blog/t…
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:iconirlnya:
irlnya Featured By Owner Jan 10, 2018  Student Digital Artist
you wouldn't reply. i told Prov multiple times i didn't want to talk to him, but he continually harassed me. so yes, i blocked him. this entire interaction should have been between you and me. i don't care if he owns part of the species, the mistake was yours. I don't see how me blocking prov prevents you from sending me a note, seeing how you commented on this journal just fine.
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:iconraventraps:
raventraps Featured By Owner Jan 9, 2018
I can confirm that comment was 100% sarcastic
I am so appalled by her actions and I'm sorry it's happened to you.

It's not the first time she's done things like this, unfortunately she has deleted most of the previous evidence.
She's a gross person and you're best blocking her. You're welcome to note me if you want more information though

And of course she will have people defending her specifically because of the popularity, don't let it get to you.
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:iconirlnya:
irlnya Featured By Owner Jan 9, 2018  Student Digital Artist
I figured it was, lol! yeah, honestly, I'm not letting it get to me, at all. I'm completely fine. :') I'm not upset or intimidated at all.
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:iconsaloiq:
Saloiq Featured By Owner Edited Jan 8, 2018
I really liked (still like tbh v-v) clovercoin's art style, especially her lines. I'm not in the pillowing community, I found about the "drama" when I was on her tumblr looking for more cute sketches, and honestly it broke my heart. She speaks so sweetly and with the mean things people were saying to her, it was hard for me to realize that at the heart of things she broke her own rule to make a profit off your design and that wasn't ok.

I'm really sorry this happened to you, I hope the situation is resolved in a way that you truly believe is fair. And if it isn't, I hope the drama blows over quickly.
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:iconirlnya:
irlnya Featured By Owner Jan 8, 2018  Student Digital Artist
yeah, it's honestly very disheartening. :( thank you for your well wishes, hon. <3
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:iconnokkelborth:
Nokkelborth Featured By Owner Jan 8, 2018  Student Digital Artist
As WishfulDewdrop has said, it's in her terms of use that AJ can buy back pillowings and lintlings at any time if the owner agrees to it, at 50% of the value that the design has.
Not only that, but you can also see that it says "I won’t re-sell your adoptable, ever, unless ownership comes back around to me at some point." 

Not only that, but since CloverCoin is the IP owner of Pillowings, they may do what they please with them as long as it's not illegal (like disregarding a contract, for example).


That being said, I hope this gets sorted out ;v; if you have any solution in mind, I think it would be good to reach out AJ about it.
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:iconirlnya:
irlnya Featured By Owner Jan 8, 2018  Student Digital Artist
yes, i've edited the original statement. it was a misunderstanding of her rules on my part. 
i don't agree that it was that simple, but i am talking with prov about it, and hopefully aj soon.
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:iconnokkelborth:
Nokkelborth Featured By Owner Jan 8, 2018  Student Digital Artist
I see! That's okay, I just wanted to point that out since it's easy to miss haha

I understand, I'm sorry you have had to go through this situation and that everyone involved has had their feelings hurt. I do really hope there eventually is a good solution for the both of you ;v;
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:iconloafdew:
loafdew Featured By Owner Jan 8, 2018
I agree that this is certainly a messy situation. I do want to correct one thing- 
When she offered the $30, she was not breaking her own rules.
Here is what I pulled directly from her Terms of Use:
"Another option for the resell is the 50% buy back. Sometimes people just need money fast and/or having trouble getting attention for their pillowing. You can freely message me and show me the pillowing or lintling in question and I can offer to purchase back the adoptable for 50% of it's original market cost. Example a MYO Very Rare Pillowing is $50 usd, I would offer to purchase it back for $25 usd. It is then up to that user if they want to agree or not. This applies to all pillowings and lintlings regardless if you got them as a gift, trade, or event."

"Instead of only paying 50% I might be willing to cover the whole cost or trade something of equal to more value . "
-----
So when she was offering the money, it did not break any of the rules listed in her TOS. CloverCoin is free to offer a buy back option. 

Regarding the rest of what is said in the journal- I do wish you luck in sorting this out :heart: I'm sorry things got this bad :c

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:iconirlnya:
irlnya Featured By Owner Jan 8, 2018  Student Digital Artist
understandable! thank you for the correction, you're right. i'll edit accordingly.
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:iconshrineheart:
Shrineheart Featured By Owner Jan 8, 2018  Professional Digital Artist
I am so sorry this happened to you Flvffy. I love her art but her behavior is 100% unacceptable. 
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:iconirlnya:
irlnya Featured By Owner Jan 8, 2018  Student Digital Artist
yeah, it was really disappointing.
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:iconshamboro:
Shamboro Featured By Owner Jan 8, 2018  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Honestly seeing them bring you into this situation not once but twice and lying to you about it as well annoys me to no end. It's even worse that they try to shrug it off as petty drama when this is all on them?? they got backlash for it the first time for breaking their own rules so you would think they realized that they were doing something wrong but I guess not? I'm so sorry you had to get caught up in this and that it has caused you so much stress. I don't think there is much you could have done other than contacting them about it like you did. The tiny amount of interest I had in the species has been stomped out by CloverCoin's behavior in all of this and I'm sorry you got treated like this by someone you looked up to. At least the character is re homed now and hopefully it will not cause you any future stress 
I hope you're doing better and this settles down soon. ;o; 
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:iconirlnya:
irlnya Featured By Owner Jan 8, 2018  Student Digital Artist
yeah, it was honestly just a gigantic mess that could have been prevented on multiple occasions. it was just so shitty and hurtful, and i really wish it had gone differently, because i really did look up to her ;_; im glad the character was bought though, i hope this doesn't go any further.
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