Hyrotrioskjan's avatar

Begging for mercy

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I'm sorry that I will do it this way, but even after I asked specifically to FIRST watch the video I recorded and THEN comment on it... I get comments by people that haven't listened to it.
And I'm sorry if 20 min are too much, but then please don't comment under a video. Presuming what i argue about isn't the same as actually listening to the podcast. 

And I'm sorry that the thumbnail is kind of...bait. And I'm sorry for not talking faster, or less ear cancer causing, but I would really like to have a more mature debate on this topic. Assuming that I will
be on your side because I paint feathered dinosaurs isn't a good basis for a comment. 

Here, for those who haven't seen it yet, the podcast

Maybe lets rephrase the text from my journal: Please don't comment unless you have seen the video. Thank you.

I think DeviantArt is a good place to discuss these things, far better than Twitter for example, and I don't want to leave the DA community out of this. *begs for understanding*
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anonymous's avatar
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Lediblock2's avatar
Fuck it, might as well throw in my two cents here.

People overhype birds a bit too much, if you ask me. For all of the hype that's given to how mean and aggressive swans and cassowaries are (always something that's brought up by the people who are supposedly against dinosaurs being portrayed as monsters in the first place, I've noticed)... they tend to conveniently leave out how both are prey animals, and are in fact regularly eaten by reptiles. Cassowaries are eaten by crocodiles and pythons, and alligators will readily snap up a swan.
timelordeternal's avatar
Jurassic park's raptors are prey animals too 

Remember the ending of the original Jurassic park movie?
timelordeternal's avatar
Dromaeosaurs were prey animals too that were regularly eaten by tyrannosaurus, azhdarchid pterosaurs, abelisaurs, carnosaurs, varanid lizards, helodermatid lizards, madtsoiid snakes, crocodilians, sebecosuchians and gobiconodontids
Lediblock2's avatar
Yeah, and most of those were scaly and reptilian.
timelordeternal's avatar
Unlike dromaeosaurs which people overhype to a ridiculous degree for no reason
Lediblock2's avatar
People like you, yeah.
acepredator's avatar

Since when are cassowaries eaten by pythons...? There aren't any constrictors big enough to kill something that big in New Guinea or Australia,.

Lediblock2's avatar

"Natural predators of cassowaries include crocodilespythonsdingos, and quolls."
acepredator's avatar

Given that quolls (which are way too small to kill cassowaries) are listed there, either that site is wrong or they're including predators of cassowary chicks as well.

Lediblock2's avatar
Still doesn't change the fact that reptiles can kick a cassowary's ass, my guy.
acepredator's avatar

Again; the only reptiles that could plausible kill adult cassowaries are crocs (and, in the Pleistocene, Komodo dragons); crocs are much larger than cassowaries and Komodo dragons are specialized for eating relatively large prey, it's not at all surprising a 170lb animal can be killed by them.

uberfrill14's avatar
uberfrill14Hobbyist General Artist

No matter what any of us say, I doubt you'll hear us argue against DA being a better discussion area than Twitter. Then again... what place isn't better than Twitter in that regard?

Taliesaurus's avatar
TaliesaurusHobbyist Digital Artist
meh I love both accurate dinosaurs and JW dinosaurs equally.

scaly or feathery they are scary either way.
RickRaptor105's avatar
I'm copypasting my YouTube comment because I guess people are more likely to read it here than under the actual video:

"People associate scaly reptiles much more with "armoured, cold-blooded, otherwordly, inhuman killer" than they would a feathered, "soft" creature. TV Tropes has a whole article titled "Reptiles Are Abhorrent". You mention dragons in one sentence, but really think about it: how many movies/TV series do you know where dragons are depicted as feathered instead of scaly, with feathered wings instead of skinny wings? The only one I can think of is Eragon, and I think some people even complained "why does the dragon have bird wings?" Scales are much more associated with power and resilience than feathers.

So I'll say there's actually a part of human psyche that will see a scaly creature as being scarier than a feathered one. And the other big part is that birds are so much associated with the ability to fly that the flightless ones (either due to size like the cassowary or due to domestification like the house chicken) are seen as a joke, no matter how dangerous they'd be if you were to actually piss them off in real life.

Ideally these scariness debates wouldn't even exist, but thanks to the oversaturation of "rule of awesome" pop culture dinosaurs have become just another movie monster trope like zombies, sharks etc.

my Christmas dinosaur was naked too"
Manti-Terror's avatar
"pop culture dinosaurs have become just another movie monster trope like zombies, sharks etc" This right here, is part of the reason why awesomebroism is so prevalent. It's also very worthy to note how the movie monster thing is exaggerated with dinosaurs more than any other creature, living or extinct.

Their condition as movie monsters is probably to blame as to why dinosaurs are often thought as being "just for kids". Of course most people aren't gonna take creatures perceived as glorified movie monsters seriously.
Lediblock2's avatar
Counterpoint: Eagles and birds of prey have been used as symbols of power for tens of thousands of years (With dragons, I'd argue that it's more because, well, them being reptilian is a pretty damn big part of what makes a dragon a dragon, but that's not really relevant).

I'd say that it's less that people think scales are scarier and more because the idea of feathered dinosaurs is a drastic change in the public perception of the clade. Even in shifts from Crystal Palace to Knight and Burian, and from them to Jurassic Park, they still were fundamentally massive reptiles - the addition of feathers shifts them to birds, an animal group that evokes a very different field of emotions in people (thinking they're cute and fluffy, objects of beauty, etc. etc.)... but above all, birds are a group of animals that loom large in pretty much everybody's daily life. Pretty much everyone sees at least a songbird or two outside every day - how many times can you honestly say that you've seen a reptile out in the wild? Add in how so many paleoartists just copy-paste modern bird plumage and behaviors onto dinosaurs (particularly the relatively few that are seen as scary and disgusting, usually selected from a small handful of disturbing photos), and you have what I think is the reason that people are against feathering dinosaurs: because to many people, it takes away a lot of what makes dinosaurs so exotic and eye-catching to people and, well, makes them feel 'boring,' more mundane. It takes the magic out of it, so to speak. Not to mention that a lot of the people who love dinosaurs also tend to have a love of reptiles as well (of course, that's a generalization, but it's something I've noticed a lot); in the demands to take feathered dinosaurs seriously, a lot of the time it just comes off as even more people writing off reptiles as outdated and inferior.

In fact, it's funny that you mention Eragon - the designers for Saphira said in interviews that they specifically used only mammals and birds as references for her because, in their words, 'reptiles can't be majestic, only ugly and disgusting'. The same reasoning was used for the recent remake of Pete's Dragon, and the same reason is often used, well, by feathernazis trying to hype up accurate dinosaurs as being far scarier and smarter than the primitive, inefficient reptile.
Hyrotrioskjan's avatar
HyrotrioskjanProfessional General Artist

Ich hab schon eine Liste von Aspekten zusammengestellt die ich vergessen habe oder die in den Kommentaren angesprochen wurden, nächstes Jahr werd ich vielleicht mal eine Neuauflage produzieren. 
CamtheZoologist's avatar
CamtheZoologistHobbyist Traditional Artist
people seem to forget that a lot of birds act like coked up feral lunatics
GMCPaints's avatar
Pigeons terrify me
titanlizard's avatar
Hey, did you know that cassowaries have very scary looking feathers?
Hyrotrioskjan's avatar
HyrotrioskjanProfessional General Artist
Too late for that joke. 
toki999's avatar
Oh cool I didn't know you had a podcast.*subscribes*

I'm always kinda frustrated with people seeing dinosaurs only as movie monsters and forget that they were real animals
It's like as  if you like big cats but only focus on their scaryness and sure, big cats can be scary, they are giant predators but people also associate big cats with elegance and beauty and sometimes even think the are cute.

Also if you make a movie and want to make something scary, you can do a lot with lighting and sound design and direction and don't need a particulary "scary" creature design. I mean look at movies like Cujo where they made a big friggin doggo look scary.

I also feel like kids who like dinosaurs are at first really interested in the animals and how we determine their appearance in life and actually want to see the most accurate depictions and it's often their parents telling them how dinosaurs "used to look cooler" implanting that dang mindset in them. Ill never forget when I told my niece that some dinosaurs had feathers and drew some dinos with her and my mom telling me that "acuracy is not important and it's all about having fun" ... I still don't know what to say to that.
archeoraptor38's avatar
Hyro forget this, drama is not worth it
Hyrotrioskjan's avatar
HyrotrioskjanProfessional General Artist
Do you mean the video or this post? Because I think the topic of the video is quite interesting for the community, it can been seen as a measure of our growth and ability to self reflect on our actions. 
anonymous's avatar
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