Herbivoree's avatar

Vegan Nightmares

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By Herbivoree   |   
© 2011 - 2020 Herbivoree
This is what I'm afraid of.

Still flopping around and testing different colouring styles. Evidently I'm not consistent just yet - maybe one day!

Please note me if you'd like to use this anywhere. I love to share.
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anonymous's avatar
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timeywimeystuff13's avatar
timeywimeystuff13Student General Artist
My sister is a 'vegetarian' who eats haribos and pesto that says not suitable for vegetarians on it.
If I hear her say 'oh but I really love it' and then call herself a vegetarian once more I think I might scream... 
PDGZandRDBZluver's avatar
I'm sorry, but I can't live without my cheese, milk or crumb cake. I don't eat meat. I don't wear make up and don't condone fur. (Unless your in places like upper Canada. Don't freeze your ass man) I don't even eat fish. I try. I love cheese too much..
dazza1008's avatar
I heard "I'm vegetarian - I eat chicken" once. :XD:
Herbivoree's avatar
I've heard it once as well and it drove me absolutely crazy! It was so awkward because the person accidentally ate something with fish in it and shrugged saying "It's okay... I sometimes eat fish." and I remember thinking (I didn't say it because I was too polite) "wtf kind of vegetarian are you if you eat fish and chicken?!?"

I didn't include chicken because even omnivores know to giggle at 'vegetarians' who say that, but they don't always know about fish.
dazza1008's avatar
Aww... well, I think there's a difference between having meat/flesh as a one-off, and having it regularly.

I was wondering myself - even though I really am vegan - if it were a choice between eating a piece of meat and having that piece go to waste, would I eat it? If it were already cooked, I probably would - even though I wouldn't want to - because I think the only thing worse than killing to survive is killing for no reason, and having the animal's life wasted. (like I said, I wouldn't go out of my way to support the meat industry, and actually I haven't had to eat meat for around 12 years now, but I still would feel bad if the meat was thrown away... )
Herbivoree's avatar
The problem is that most people say they don't have it "often", but have say cow milk for breakfast, some "meat" product for lunch and then some "meat" product for dinner. I've never met people that eat it say once a month to actually qualify for once in a while - but perhaps it is possible. ^^

That's a really interesting conundrum and I think that's where the lines get blurred. Haha if you weren't vegan I wouldn't comment on it since most people use questions like that to make themselves feel less guilty about their current choices. I personally wouldn't eat it because I'd likely throw up (I can't even be in the same room as someone eating flesh most of the time), but I'd definitely feel guilty about it being wasted. Whenever things die I always bury them so that's what I'd probably do with "meat" if it were to be thrown in the garbage otherwise. Eating it can potentially be one way to not waste it... but it's wasted anyways since no one needed it. I'd rather honor it in death and apologize for the animal's suffering. To me eating someone is not respectful. I won't eat my dog when she one day dies, I'll bury her. Same goes for a cow. =) Mind you that's not very practical but it's in a hypothetical if it were to be wasted scenario.
dazza1008's avatar
I am a guilt-free vegan - but with regards to others, I guess that I've found that a softer approach is more effective. We can say what we really think because we're both living the lifestyle. If someone comes up and says "I don't eat meat often" when they find out I'm vegan, I see that as a step in the right direction and say "that's good". As opposed to saying "well you shouldn't eat meat at all" which makes me seem fanatical plus makes them feel bad, so I don't think it's encouraging them to do more. I'm making that sacrifice in order to encourage people to eat less meat, thus making it more likely that they'd become vegetarian/vegan.
Herbivoree's avatar
I'm still figuring out what my approach is. xD I completely agree that you can't be too aggressive because it makes people feel bad which in turn alienates them from you. Then they completely just turn away and have no interest in learning.

The other side also is that if you say "that's good" then you're potentially encouraging that behavior. They're aware that as vegans we abstain from everything so there's almost this power balance, and by saying that they're doing a good thing we're potentially encouraging them to stay right where they are. I've found it really hard to talk with vegetarians for exactly that reason. Mostly they are vegetarian because they don't want to kill animals, but a vegetarian diet does kill animals indirectly.

What I currently do is say that the end goal should be to eliminate as much animal suffering as physically possible from your life (even today I'm still learning things to avoid). Any step in that direction is a good one. You don't need to be vegan right away, but you should always be pushing your boundaries. Eliminate something until it becomes routine and easy, then try something else.

I find that approach is still pushy but respectful that not everyone can go vegan overnight like I did. ^^ I think I'm super careful not to be too accepting because in the past I've had people walk away after talking to me during vegan outreach and feel they were doing nothing wrong, so I'm super careful that it never happens again because sometimes those people will never talk to anyone else about veganism in their whole life and it leaves me with a horrible feeling that I got that one shot and I messed it up.
dazza1008's avatar
I know what you mean about encouraging behaviour - although if they say that they cut down on meat feeling guilty after finding out that I'm vegan, then I see it as a step in the right direction. (as opposed to someone just coming up to me and saying "hey, I eat meat" - I wouldn't encourage that)

If someone was caused to feel bad about themselves, then I think there's a mental block to becoming that - so I think their walking away happy is essential.

If your goal is to stop animal suffering, then why don't you qualify that statement when you talk to people, saying "if the animals were treated very well and loved, then it's OK to have milk, but the simple fact is that the animals in the factory production farms aren't treated well".

re: "that one shot and messed it up" - you really shouldn't be taking over people's actions or controlling them - in fact, if you do say it with that intent, it lessens their feeling of self efficacy and they are less likely to act. Just make it clear that you'd encourage and be happy if they did make that decision. Else it could be a real turn-off for them. I'm only speaking from my personal experience. The people who contributed to getting me vegan didn't actually give any speeches at all. They answered some questions, but they weren't seeing it as an opportunity to turn me vegan. And that whole discussion was a positive experience for me. It got me thinking, and that was enough. I haven't even said that I'm vegan to them.

I don't have all the answers - it's still a work in progress for me too. XD But it's good to discuss these things and get others' points of view. :)
Herbivoree's avatar
I think it can go either way. Like a few non-vegan acquaintances will eat at least vegetarian around me because of the guilty feelings, but I suppose a sense of trust usually needs to be established so that guilt can turn into wanting to learn instead of shutting down.

Yeah of course - I absolutely agree that if a vegan is talking to someone that isn't vegan the non vegan person needs to walk away in some kind of positive way. I mostly just get worried about perpetuating ridiculous stereotypes.

Well my goal is to stop all animal suffering ever, which I think includes never using an animal. In your example you mentioned cows. Free range calves are still separated from their mothers much earlier than is natural so that humans can take the milk instead of giving it to the baby. I would consider upsetting the mother or the baby cow animal suffering. So while I agree that we should mention that factory farms aren't treated well, I find I need to be very clear that there is some kind of suffering in using an animal for anything (except maybe maybe maybe in rare cases of adopting chickens who happen to lay eggs).

I don't give speeches - I know people don't listen to them. The second you talk at someone you're inviting them to ignore you. I think you misunderstood what I meant by my "that one shot" phrase. My quandary is that I have never met an omnivore or vegetarian that knows as much as I do about how animals are treated. I've only met two vegans that do, and they were both ten or so years older than me. I typically start off all conversations from a place of sharing, where I invite people to tell me their thoughts and either add my own comments or answer questions. The part where I worry is if I've explained something clearly enough or succinctly enough to not overwhelm them with information they'll forget but still explain enough to show how using animals causes them to suffer unnecessarily.
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SpyroCynderSparx's avatar
SpyroCynderSparxHobbyist Digital Artist
If I see one more 'vegetarian' who eats fish I'm gonna punch them.
All meat is red meat, as Paul McCartney said. :|

also I almost never eat honey .U.
Herbivoree's avatar
LOL, then you should visit one of the restaurants at my university which "serves no meat" but has fish in 1/4 of the food.

Honey is such a tricky one. Bees are so small it's hard to get them to tug at our heart strings like a cow getting hurt might, and they do naturally produce honey like chickens produce eggs so it's easy for people to brush it off and say taking honey is alright.

My philosophy though is I don't need it and if someone may have died for it - why take it? It's common practice to kill worker bees at the end of every honey season, many get accidentally squished in extracting the honey, and commercial bees are a unique human engineered species that actually crowd out and starve natural bees who happen to live in the area. It's unfortunate that breeding bees for honey is leading to the endangerment of wild bees, and rather ironic.
Masanohashi's avatar
it's really sad

of course, I agree with you, fish are also animals
Herbivoree's avatar
Absolutely. =) For so long I'd been told by people that bees weren't animals and that they were insects and then I looked it up and laughed because of course insects are animals. It's funny how much we believe just because someone told us something once!
Masanohashi's avatar
Lolz, of course insects are also animals, they are living beings, so why can anyone think they are not? :O_o:

Yeah, because of that I'm always skeptical until I become really sure about something.
Herbivoree's avatar
Lol I think people prefer to think of insects as not animals because that means we need to consider them in our actions.
Masanohashi's avatar
ah, you mean that insects are getting killed because they make an obstacle to the owners of home when they hang around inside of it...
I really dislike it, in my opinion, if home owner does not wish to have any insect inside, they should let them go away, not kill
I actually did so with one small moth yesterday - family wanted to get rid of it, but I did not killed it, just opened a window and it flew away
Herbivoree's avatar
Yeah exactly. Like insects scare the heck out of me most of the time, but they can feel pain. Saying they're not animals is an excuse to ignore that.

Also unfortunately many bees are routinely killed in the harvesting of honey (such as squished by mistake, killed at the end of the season for money reasons, or as wild bees starve because of engineered bee competition) so saying they're not animals is how some vegans can still use their products, as part of veganism is not using any animal for anything ever.
Masanohashi's avatar
Yeah, that's terrible indeed.
It for sure can't be said insects are not animals. They are living, mobile creatures. That's what animals are.
Another ones are plants that nourish of chlorophyle.

Ah, right... It's a kind of hypocrisy, don't you thik? A person that claims that they are vegan is not supposed to eat any animal product, including honey.
And anyway, considering bees as not animals is senseless.
Herbivoree's avatar
Yep of course, that's what animals are. I think it's easier for people to forget that though sometimes. xD

and yeah it's definitely hypocritical for vegans to eat honey. I have an acquaintance who is "vegan" for health reasons rather than ethics and she eats honey and it drives me crazy because according to her honey is healthier than sugar.
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Hiking-the-world's avatar
Hiking-the-worldHobbyist Photographer
As always, I shall applaud ceaslessly!
Herbivoree's avatar
Hehe thanks! :hug:
anonymous's avatar
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