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Entertainment or Learning?

Journal Entry: Fri Jul 18, 2008, 4:08 PM
Do you post your artwork at DeviantArt mostly to have fun?  Or to learn?  Or perhaps a bit of both?  (And if it's both, which one dominates?)

I was posting around in the forums and some of the threads there made me think of this.  I joined DA nearly 5 years go mostly out of curiosity at first.  I'd met some cool artists on another site, and they all had DA accounts, so I followed them here.  

It was the first time I'd really met any fellow artists on-line.  So DA was a marvelous place to me.  For the first time ever, someone besides my family and few closest friends were actually seeing my art. You know those people in your life who really love to cook?  They cook for the sheer enjoyment of it, but they also love having someone over to actually eat what they make?  That was how I felt.  I draw for myself first, but it was wonderful actually having people (and complete strangers at that) looking at what I had done.

For me, DA has always been about entertainment/fun.  It's why I came here, and it's why I've stayed.  I love looking at other people's artwork here. I enjoy seeing worlds being created, I like being inspired.  I don't really look at artwork with the thought of critiquing just like I don't usually go into a movie theatre expecting to analyze the movie. I just want to soak everything in.   

I'll critique or comment specifically on something if someone asks, but otherwise, I generally don't do that.  And I generally don't expect people to do that with my stuff either.  I post my art because I hope that people will enjoy it.  I don't really post for educational purposes.  I don't have any expectation (or desire, for the most part) of a serious comment or critique from people.

I have learned a lot from DA though.  I think just being exposed to a community like this and enjoying the artwork here makes one improve automatically. It's almost impossible to NOT improve in such an environment, IMO.  And personally, just knowing that there are viewers out there makes me want to get better in the same way a person would want to cook tastier, more ambitious dishes when they know they have company over.  The learning has been great, but it's mostly been a casual, passive side-effect of being here.  This place is an art playground for me first and foremost, not a school.

That's my personal attitude of this place.  But I was wondering if most other people felt the same way?  Based on some of the threads I've seen, it seems like some people yearn for something more.  Some folks want serious critique.  Others want comments that are more specific.  Is that what most people want here?  

Why do you post at DA?  What is it that you get out of this place that you like?  What do you feel is missing?  Are you here mostly for the fun of it?  Or are you hoping to learn?  Or a bit of both?  

Just wondering.  :)


Oh, by the way, I have a new poll up, but it never made it to people's message centers.  Mind voting?  ^_^





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My artwork is not stock imagery, so please don't treat it as such. ^_^

In a nutshell:
1. Don't alter/edit/mutilate my art.
2. Don't claim it as your own.

The following are fine as long as you don't alter my images. No need to contact me for permission:
  • Downloading my art for your personal viewing pleasure.
  • Using my artwork as your desktop image.
  • Printing out my art for your personal use (like putting it up on the wall of your room.)
  • Displaying my artwork UNALTERED as part of a picture gallery on your site. (It'd be nice if you gave credit.)


I would ask that you please do NOT do the following:
  • Other than re-sizing, please do NOT alter/edit my art. Do not crop it. Do not change the colors. Do not draw on top of it. Do not remove my signature. Do not add text over it.
  • Do NOT use my artwork as part of your website/blog/myspace background or layout design.
  • Do NOT use my artwork for banners, avatars, sigs, and tubes.
  • Do NOT claim my artwork as your own.
  • Do NOT take my art without permission and sell it for profit.



  • Reading: Kushiel's Mercy by Jacqueline Carey
  • Watching: Dark Knight -- 8/10
Add a Comment:
 
:iconhollarity:
hollarity Featured By Owner Jul 24, 2008  Professional Digital Artist
I joined DA orignially because my friends had accounts on it... Before DA, I never really thought much of posting your artwork online.... Artwork was always a personal thing, meant to be shared between yourself and your close friends...
but DA has caused me to expand my horizons...
I post pictures for fun, and pictures to showcase my skills.... *okay- well, to show that i can draw somewhat XD*
but it has really helped me to improve... to learn and understand about what people love and gain from other peoples artwork...
Over the past year, my style has drastically changed and grown, as I experiment with new techniques and ideas...

my ideals and world views have also grown over the year....

As I see it, the internet is like one giant brain or soul, that we all add to and collaborate in.... each story chaining together to form something bigger... something better...


ugh... but yes... I do mostly post work for fun... I still keep my more serious stuff to myself... Still personal...

as for comments though, I love them... Not the "omg rofl" ones,but the ones where the commentor responds with how the piece made them feel.... what ideas it invoked in them...

okay- sorry for the long message... But again, I love your journals with these interesting questions X3
Reply
:iconhakubaikou:
hakubaikou Featured By Owner Aug 19, 2008
Thanks! And I love reading responses like yours. (I just sometimes take a while to respond to them, ha!)

I'm glad that you've grown so much in the last year. :)
Reply
:iconaoishu:
AoiShu Featured By Owner Jul 22, 2008   Traditional Artist
I post my stuff just to share, to find people who think similarly, with whom I can talk afterwards.
These people teach me new thigns about what i did. They see somethign different in my stuff sometimes, other times they pinpint just what i FELT when drawing - and it is also so iteresting and precious.
Through other's eyes your work starts an independent life. Getting to know how people relate to your work - it's such a great feeling.

I usually don't give critique on finished work, WIP - yes, it can help, but finished work.. it hurts if someone bashes it. Well of course there can be cases when a comment might help or if author specifically asks.

But for me, any gallery if for meeting people, sharing, learning from others. I must say - i learned a lot about techniques and all possible things from fellow artists.

DA is a bit impersonal, which is sad. There are popular people, who attract a lot of attention. Usually they don't; care to answer comments tho^^; But it is easy to get lost in the sheer multitude of stuff posted here.

Still I found a coupe of people with whom one can talk about all possible tings, and who share their ideas and views of the picture - so interesting.
Reply
:iconhakubaikou:
hakubaikou Featured By Owner Aug 19, 2008
I also post mostly to share. I don't really have friends in real life with whom I can talk about artwork like I do here. Most of my real life friends don't really draw.

And yes, DA can be a bit impersonal at times. It's really impossible to get to know everyone you run across here, but the friends that you do make, make it all worthwhile, IMO. :)
Reply
:iconcalger459:
calger459 Featured By Owner Jul 21, 2008  Professional Filmographer
Hmm well at first for me it was just a fun thing to do, but over time my DA gallery has become more imporant to me, in that it's safe place to post my "sillier" work (aka fanart or nigh-fanart as the case may be) that I wouldn't feel comfortable putting in my professional gallery on my site. Of course getting feedback is gratifying too, and if I get constructive critque (sadly very rare, just as it is in the fanfiction world) it makes my day! But I also love DA's great faving system, and being able to scroll through all the wonderful artwork I've discovered over the past couple years is very inspiring to me.
Reply
:iconhakubaikou:
hakubaikou Featured By Owner Aug 19, 2008
I'm the same way. DA is a like a big art playground. I don't use it professionally. In fact, I make an effort to not post any links between my professional site and my DA gallery.
Reply
:iconcalger459:
calger459 Featured By Owner Aug 19, 2008  Professional Filmographer
*nods* exactly, they have to be separate pretty much by necessity, and DA isn't too conducive to posting animation anyway ;) Actually, where is your professional gallery? I'd love to see it :)
Reply
:iconhakubaikou:
hakubaikou Featured By Owner Aug 19, 2008
My job stuff I can't post publicly yet, since the films I worked on aren't complete, and I don't own the rights to the images.

But on my website, I have my personal works (ones that I like more) posted. And then if people want to see job-related works, I have to have them e-mail me. It's pretty much the same stuff on DA except without all the fanart and the goofy chibi stuff.

A lot of my personal works are actually more polished. With the job art, a lot of them are very sketchy, since I had very little time to do them. (Like 5 days for nearly 20 paintings with multiple people and complete backgrounds.) Either that, or they're a mix of painting and actual film frames.

If you watch the Scorpion King 2 trailer online, a few of my shots made it into the trailer. The most obvious is this shot toward the end where the actor grabs a sword that's spinning in mid air. I added the sword and animated it in Photoshop. (Yes. You read that right.) Heh! It's not a good movie though.
Reply
:iconcalger459:
calger459 Featured By Owner Aug 19, 2008  Professional Filmographer
Wow really?Hey that's still pretty cool! I'll have to check out the trailer and look for that :D Yeah it sucks waiting for the ability to post professional work, I'm still waiting for the all clear on a freelance animation I completed earlier this year. I enjoy most how my photoshop backgrounds came out and I'd love to show them! Just..can't yet, and it seems like the debut of the animation has been delayed to 2009. Boo.
Reply
:iconhakubaikou:
hakubaikou Featured By Owner Aug 19, 2008
Yeah. I'm still so new at all of this, none of my stuff can be posted yet. Sad!!! D:

^_^
Reply
:iconvueiy-visarelli:
Vueiy-Visarelli Featured By Owner Jul 20, 2008  Hobbyist General Artist
I guess there's two main reasons I post here. One is I'm vain and want praise on my artwork, especially if I think it's good. I think that's probably standard for most people, even if they wouldn't care to admit it. I also think that's a pretty bad reason to do anything (for the praise), but that's kinda beside the point, since I'm just answering your question.

The other main reason is...if my computer crashes again, at least most of my best stuff is saved here on DA! HA! That happened recently, too, and I lost a lot of artwork and other things...but most of the best of it was saved here! :D

To a lesser degree, I also want feedback on certain pieces so that I can improve. If the lighting in a picture/scene seems fine to me, but I post it and most people think it looks unnatural for the scene, next time, I may be able to improve on that.

But mostly, it's for the praise. ;) (lol, I'm so shallow!)
Reply
:iconhakubaikou:
hakubaikou Featured By Owner Jul 20, 2008
Oh, I quite love the praise too. :) And I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing to do anything. It's a good reason if it motivates you to do better.

Ack! I'm sorry about your computer crash! :( Yeah, I guess it's great that you save them here. Never thought of DA as a back-up system though. Ha!

^_^ It's okay to enjoy the praise. Nothing shallow or wrong about that, IMO. As long as you don't let the praise get in the way of learning.
Reply
:iconhendryroesly:
HendryRoesly Featured By Owner Jul 20, 2008  Professional Digital Artist
I joined DA because i love to see the work of great artist. U're one of them that i consider as the great artist. These artists give me a lot of inspirations & motivation to keep on improving & chasing them from behind, hoping that someday i'll be able to stand on the same level. I also learn a lot more from DA in drawing.. i can't explain what, but i'm sure u know.
Reply
:iconhakubaikou:
hakubaikou Featured By Owner Jul 20, 2008
Aww, thanks. :blushes:

I know what you mean though. I also love getting inspiration from artists whom I admire. And I like chasing them from behind as well.
Reply
:iconhendryroesly:
HendryRoesly Featured By Owner Jul 21, 2008  Professional Digital Artist
Yeah.. like i'm chasing u from behind.. i get the excitement.. seriously.. ur artworks are beautiful.. I was showing off ur artworks & 6 other artists at my class last week D..
Reply
:iconhakubaikou:
hakubaikou Featured By Owner Aug 9, 2008
Chasing is good. ^_^

And thank you!
Reply
:iconaxl99:
axl99 Featured By Owner Jul 20, 2008  Professional Digital Artist
I do it 4 TEH LULZ.

I hate to sound harsh and all, but it's hard to find a group of people who can give you a constructive crit then follow through with the alternatives on how to go about fixing things even if you beg for it.

There's also a huge trust issue in putting your work up to the subjective biases of users who don't have the aesthetic capacity or resources to offer you help. As a result there are many artists who prefer getting their crits from those of equal or better skill. There can be a slight bit of elitism that seeps into that as well.

Perhaps asking for how things should be done is like getting people to give your answers on a silver plate. However the main idea is to just give an outline of things that could be done, and from there it's up to the artist to connect the dots.

There are a lot of artists and communities that don't forgive mistakes even though they're such a big part in the creative process. A lot of experimentation is trial and error, and no one should be faulted for that or coerced to force changes in themselves either.

On the other hand, when I see artists have fun, I want to have fun too. There shouldn't be any cut-throat competition involved, it's pointless since you're really competiting with yourself.

And because DA is such a huge site, you do end up running into a couple artists you can make fast friends with and vibe off each other's suggestions. Certainly hard, but not impossible.

What I think needs to change is the audicence's perception of what's out there, encourage them to be more open-minded and more savvy.

All I can do is just continue to have fun seeing what works and what doesn't with my art.
Reply
:iconhakubaikou:
hakubaikou Featured By Owner Jul 20, 2008
I think you know my opinion on critiques, but that said, I'd have to agree with you in that if I did want to get one, it does help if it's from someone of a certain skill level at least. I don't think it's necessarily elitism. It' just nice to hear it from someone who is sure to understand exactly what they're saying. Not to say that a non-artist couldn't give you a critique either. But it's a very different kind of critique. Useful in other ways.

I can't understand the idea of not forgiving mistakes. That attitude is exactly why there are some great art sites out there that I just can't join. I love mistakes. Mistakes are a wonderful thing. And while they are to be corrected, I don't think they're to be condemned. Experimentation is a huge part of learning for me, and if I didn't feel absolutely free to make ridiculously huge mistakes, my learning would be sorely stunted. I get the feeling some people have been so cowed by such negative attitudes toward mistakes, it really is a shame. :(
Reply
:iconlisathewhitewolf:
LisaTheWhiteWolf Featured By Owner Jul 19, 2008  Hobbyist General Artist
(side note - You do an excellent 'cooking' job here)

...........I'm a bit of a mix.....haha.
Reply
:iconhakubaikou:
hakubaikou Featured By Owner Jul 20, 2008
Thanks! I try to make tasty dishes. LOL.

Yeah, I figure a lot of people like to do both. At least I hope that's the case.
Reply
:iconmoocow33:
moocow33 Featured By Owner Jul 19, 2008
hmm
to learn
to have immense artgasms at beautiful pieces
and to share my 2 cents (aka try to support the good decent artists rather than the crappy ones)
Reply
:iconhakubaikou:
hakubaikou Featured By Owner Jul 20, 2008
Heh, I like the term "artgasms". ^_^
Reply
:iconmoocow33:
moocow33 Featured By Owner Jul 20, 2008
teehee i'm thinking of coining it, but you can borrow it :P
Reply
:iconsilver-comet:
Silver-Comet Featured By Owner Jul 19, 2008
Mostly just to share my art (if it can be called that xD) with a crowd who's not going to mock me for the rest of my life (like most people I know). And for fun, though I'm always up for learning :B
Reply
:iconhakubaikou:
hakubaikou Featured By Owner Jul 20, 2008
It is nice to share artwork with people who are supportive. :)
Reply
:iconsilver-comet:
Silver-Comet Featured By Owner Jul 20, 2008
Indeed (:
Reply
:iconsnowmask:
snowmask Featured By Owner Jul 19, 2008  Professional Traditional Artist
I am here to see what people have to offer, and to share my creativity in return :)

And for the lulz.
Reply
:iconhakubaikou:
hakubaikou Featured By Owner Jul 19, 2008
Heh! Yes, always the lulz. ^_^
Reply
:iconperpetuallysmiling:
PerpetuallySmiling Featured By Owner Jul 19, 2008  Professional Writer
I'd still create with or without the existence of dA. I do take some enjoyment when poeple like what I do, but my joining was pretty much spurned from the information that there was an art community out there where I could share things, as well as look at new things that are posted. I enjoy being around the site...though my 'aroundness' has been lacking prior to late...
Reply
:iconhakubaikou:
hakubaikou Featured By Owner Jul 19, 2008
Well, it's nice to see you back, whether you can post a lot or just a little. :)
Reply
:iconmaddy-inc:
Maddy-Inc Featured By Owner Jul 19, 2008
Originally I drew because it's something to do and my hands are always itching to create something. I suppose a year and a half ago I decided to get more serious about it and really try to improve at which point I was directed here by one of my friends. Now it's still about getting better, but maybe less of a focus. Somewhat back to simply enjoying drawing but now people can see what I do.
Reply
:iconhakubaikou:
hakubaikou Featured By Owner Jul 19, 2008
It's nice sharing your stuff, yeah? :) I think it's great to do a combination of both, to have fun (which is so important!) and to learn.
Reply
:iconsachiami:
SachiAmi Featured By Owner Jul 19, 2008
Pretty much what you just said. While critique is always appreciated - half the fun of being an artist is seeing improvement in the results - I never really expect to get it here. Posting here is more of a "See what I made? See? See?" thing.

And even if there's no direct critique involved, just being so aware of all the art here that's better than mine is a constant drive to improve.
Reply
:iconsachiami:
SachiAmi Featured By Owner Jul 19, 2008
*cough* Just now saw that 'what could be improved' bit of your post.

All that said, if there were a forum on DA where artists could link stuff they've put up that they really want honest, out and out constructive criticism on, that'd be awesome.
Reply
:iconhakubaikou:
hakubaikou Featured By Owner Jul 19, 2008
That would be a cool idea, actually. :)
Reply
:icondancingelf:
dancingelf Featured By Owner Jul 19, 2008  Professional Photographer
I'm here for both! I like being critiqued to improve my work, or be given advices, as I like giving advices to others and critique their works in return. But of course it's always an unending source of inspiration, so the fun part is always there! :)
Reply
:iconhakubaikou:
hakubaikou Featured By Owner Jul 19, 2008
Cool. :) It's nice to have the combination of everything, I think.
Reply
:iconxssithi:
xssithi Featured By Owner Jul 19, 2008  Professional Photographer
I like posting things that others will enjoy but I also want people to be honest with me. If they don't like something about it, why don't they? What do they see that could make it better? I want advanced crits, not just ooos and ahhhhs. It perks your ego but it doesn't really help you grow or change. So when I am looking at others work It is the entertainment side. For my own it is a little entertainment and a desire for suggestions and pointing out what could be done better. Mind you I also wouldn't mind if people read previous posts and decided if I had already heard something ;) haha.
Reply
:iconhakubaikou:
hakubaikou Featured By Owner Jul 19, 2008
But what if their honest opinion really is oooh and aaah? I'd have to respectfully disagree about praise not helping one to learn. I think they can inspire some artists to want to do better, and that does help one improve. Maybe not directly, but indirectly. And the incentive can be pretty strong.

Although it's great to get advance critiques too, if you like that. Do you feel you get enough of that here when you ask for it?
Reply
:iconxssithi:
xssithi Featured By Owner Jul 19, 2008  Professional Photographer
Yep I understand that, everyone gets something different that helps them grow. Crits are what help me, and get me excited to grow.

As for advanced crits here... I don't think I get it in this community as much though I always love it when people surprise me with their insight. For my digital art going to sites like cgsociety and conceptart really help and push me. For photography.... I haven't found that site that pushes yet.
Reply
:iconhakubaikou:
hakubaikou Featured By Owner Jul 20, 2008
Aah, okay. Yeah, cgsociety and conceptart would definitely be better places for crits. A shame that photography doesn't have an equivalent. :(
Reply
:iconquandry247:
quandry247 Featured By Owner Jul 19, 2008   Digital Artist
i just like checking in on like minded folk every now n then. going - 'ooooh' at their outstanding work - try to imitate - fail - then go back to my boring 9 2 5 job.
Reply
:iconhakubaikou:
hakubaikou Featured By Owner Jul 19, 2008
Heh, I like going "oooh" too. ^_^
Reply
:iconthegreatandmightyoz:
TheGreatandMightyOz Featured By Owner Jul 19, 2008  Hobbyist General Artist
Well, kinda like you said, I enjoy having my art seen by other people. Also all my friends think I'm good at drawing, but I was curious to see how they'd do with random other people. Learning is also a big reason; I sometimes stare at drawings for mintues absorbing the detail, trying to figure out how they got it to look just like it does... and just seeing other peoples' art is fun, too.
Another reason is.... I like showing off. xD
Reply
:iconhakubaikou:
hakubaikou Featured By Owner Jul 19, 2008
Heh, I do the same thing. I think looking at other people's works and trying to figure out how they did it is a great way to learn. It makes you think. :)
Reply
:iconobi-quiet:
Obi-quiet Featured By Owner Jul 19, 2008
I do a little bit of both, personally. I mean, I love posting something that will get me a lot of ego-boosting, but at the same time, I like posting experimental things to see what the reaction is. I can count on a few people to be just down-right awesome when it comes to critiques *cough*LEVIFICTION*cough*, and one way or another I usually just do better.

I tend to be a little more obsessive after a DA session, though...^^;
Reply
:iconhakubaikou:
hakubaikou Featured By Owner Jul 19, 2008
Ah yeah, I like experimenting too. :) I usually post those in my scraps bin though.
Reply
:icondemi-urge:
Demi-Urge Featured By Owner Jul 19, 2008
Since art isn't my "main thing" so it's mostly for fun and a learning experience (not that I dedicate much time to it).
I tend to learn more from looking at other artist's work... watching is the main reason I joined dA.
Reply
:iconhakubaikou:
hakubaikou Featured By Owner Jul 19, 2008
Same here. My entire art education has pretty much been based on learning by looking at other artist's works, and learning by looking at (and trying to figure out) the world around me.
Reply
:iconm4st3rc1f:
m4st3rc1f Featured By Owner Jul 19, 2008  Professional Photographer
oh well, i post my artwork on DA for fun..but.. i'm like a child..i learn all that i see (maybe not correct english XD)
Reply
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