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2 days ago
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If you want to convince me that Atheism is better. . .

:iconjochannon:
jochannon Featured By Owner 2 days ago
So there was this guy called Desmond Doss, who was a man of faith - he was a Seventh Day Adventist, a pacifist; he was not required to serve in the military, but he volunteered to serve in the Second World War as a medic, serving in the Pacific Theatre against the Japanese.

He was awarded the Bronze Star twice for his service in Guam and the Philippines, for exceptional valor in aiding wounded soldiers under fire.

Later, during the Battle of Okinawa, he saved the lives of 50100 wounded, including Japanese wounded, atop the Maeda Escarpment, although wounded four times, including at one point receiving seventeen pieces of shrapnel from a grenade he kicked away from his comrades; Doss was the first conscientious objector to be awarded the Medal of Honor, for his actions on Okinawa.

Here's the point: Desmond Doss was motivated to do all these things, to risk his life time after time to save the lives of so many people, by his faith.

If you want to convince me that Atheism is better, than the first step is to name for me an Atheist who did something comparable, who was motivated by his Atheism.
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Devious Comments (Add yours)

:icondoomrater:
doomrater Featured By Owner 1 day ago
Judging a religion by its believers is a bit of a bad idea.  Want me to find the worst example of SDAs?  Or what the bell curve of SDAs look like?  You might not like what statistics has to say.

The worst part is, none of this actually says anything about the truth of a religion.
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:iconmarilynbillups:
MarilynBillups Featured By Owner 8 hours ago
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:iconniotabunny:
niotabunny Featured By Owner 1 day ago
religion, no religion, spiritual... doesn't matter.  some need a crutch, other's don't and some should consider it.  near death/out of body experiences people know the truth, those that never experienced will clutch at what they think they know.

either way, walk a better path, have values and morals and reach the end that we all reach, some sooner than others.

to answer this or that regarding people of history and who's better/worse than another, they invented search engines for a reason, use it.
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:iconpakaku:
Pakaku Featured By Owner 1 day ago
"name for me an Atheist who did something comparable, who was motivated by his Atheism"

Sounds like a loaded question. People who are atheist don't go around doing things and saying "I did this specifically because I don't believe in god", that just sounds ridiculous.
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:iconfred1009:
fred1009 Featured By Owner 1 day ago
A study of history would also suggest that bragging about being an atheist was not a good idea. It's easy to make a showcase of someone like Desmond but ignore the evil that has been committed in the name of faith.

I have a lot more respect for people who do good deeds without using it as a showcase for their ideology, political or religious. 


  
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:iconshuqxx:
ShuQxx Featured By Owner 1 day ago   General Artist
I don't understand why many religious people need to shove their religion into peoples' faces and make others feel bad, inferior or whatever for not believing in god (or their god).
I understand why some people believe, want to believe, or need to believe. I'm completely OK and would want to believe something that would really make accepting death and suffering SO much easier... so I would never want to take that away from them.. because it gives them peace (or maybe even some sort of all powerful spiritual love).
But why do they need to shit on others :lmao: I just find it ridiculous that these people don't realise how they come of. So anti love, peace, acceptance which (I'd really hope/expect) is at the core of all of most religions/cultures.
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:iconfred1009:
fred1009 Featured By Owner 22 hours ago
>> But why do they need to shit on others <<

The short answer is that they see any open expression of non-belief as a threat. Religious / political fanaticism is an offshoot of tribalism. For 99.9& of human history tribalism was necessary for human survival. 

The other thing true believers dread is science. The rules of evidence in science do not allow for the supernatural. Yet the practical results of science (engineering and advanced medicine) are obvious.      
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:iconkoshej:
Koshej Featured By Owner 1 day ago
Then OP is right that atheism isn't a driving force behind someone's good actions, lol.
And it wasn't meant in the literal "say it aloud" sense, of course, but as a moral compass drive instead.
Sorry, but this time it's really: "foot, meet mouth", dude.
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:iconpakaku:
Pakaku Featured By Owner 1 day ago
It may come as a shock to you, but more things can drive good actions than stubborn faith. Like, for example, saving your soldiers from a grenade because you actually want everyone in your squad survive.
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:iconkoshej:
Koshej Featured By Owner 1 day ago
Or jumping down a bridge, because why not?
That's why we call it morals - it's not an impulsive jerk of a fleeting gesture, but a modus operandi that actually shapes one's life to a high degree.
But, well, whatever.
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:iconspyhamschter:
Spyhamschter Featured By Owner 1 day ago  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
Not gonna get into the argument about whether "atheism" is "better" or not, but let me say that...

...what the man in your example was motivated by were (was?) simply his moral values, which were influenced by the teachings of his faith.
I am writing "influenced", because he could very well have been opposed to fighting without following the teachings of a religion. His faith does deserve credit, but giving all the credit in that direction is to not give enough credit to his own courage and moral judgment.

Obviously, good moral values can come from anywhere, and do not need to be based on religion. I think your discussion is a bit weird, because atheism isn't completely the same as a religion, such as for example Christianity, even if some would say it is. Religion is a combination of many things. Faith in the divine. Traditions. Community. Rules. Values. Ideas. And so on. Atheism is just the rejection/ opposition towards belief in the divine and rules/ ideas associated with it. Atheism does not contain teachings about moral values, because that isn't its purpose. It makes no sense that an "atheist" should draw from their "atheism" to do something good. For that, they should instead look into their heart and mind, and take inspiration from what they have learned from others, and what they think is right. The same goes for an agnostic person, or a spiritual person, or a religious person.
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:icongpad:
GPAD Featured By Owner 1 day ago   Digital Artist
I'd imagine there have been some people out there motivated by their belief that there is no god out there to actually do good things. I mean, if there is no god to help people then who else would help us if not ourselves?

I'm not saying that having a religion or being an atheist is better, but both can be motivational in their own way. I used to be religious and believed in a ton of superstitions but growing up I felt that my time would be better spent just doing things, not worrying about whether or not god really exists or which religion was right all along.

Can't say I've contributed much to the world, but there's probably a good portion of religious and atheistic people who haven't done much either. If there was actually a better side between them there wouldn't even be a debate after all these centuries. Even then, does it really matter?
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:iconkoshej:
Koshej Featured By Owner 1 day ago
It sure CAN.
But DOES it?
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:iconblackbook668:
blackbook668 Featured By Owner 2 days ago
Things are done in the name of faith and religion and aren't done in the name of atheism so it's really impossible to make such a comparison.

People make a mistake in hand-waving Doss' faith, however. It took a lot of courage to say no at a time like that, when people would accuse you likely of treason and argue that you ought to be hung. It's very easy for people to say they would have done likewise, very easy. Would any of us have followed his example, given the pressures involved. I think what people say they'll do and what they actually do are often two very different things and for my part, I won't boast of what I would do in any given circumstance, though for the record, I wouldn't follow Doss' example, or if I did, do so purely by accident.
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:iconyangxiaofan457:
YangXiaoFan457 Featured By Owner 2 days ago
I agree with what Beta-Piscium said. It doesn't really matter. You choose your own path regardless.
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:iconkoshej:
Koshej Featured By Owner 2 days ago
@ Masked Anti-Christian Who Never Heard Of Other Religions
...Kinda said my point already, lol.
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:iconmaskeddeviantreturns:
In 2011, 13 year old Hana Grace-Rose Williams died from malnutrition and hypothermia due to the collective abuse from her adoptive Christian parents who regularly beat her, starve her, lock her in a closet, and force her to sleep outside naked. In 2010, 7 yeat old Lydia Schatz was held down and beaten to death over a course of several hours by her adoptive Christian parents because she mispronounced a word.
Both of the children's adoptive parents followed the teachings of the book "How to Train up a Chd" by Pastor Michael Pearl which encourages child abuse as a form of discipline. A book which he still sells to this day.
Now I want you to convince me that Christianity is better... or is it unfair to judge an entire people by the actions of an individual?
Dear cowardly troll who blocked me yet is clearly obsessed with me as I'm sure you are constantly checking this section of the thread to see if I have responded to your pathetic piggybacking. I am well aware that other religions exist other than Christianity. But the person aggrandized in this thread was a Christian therefore it is only fair that I juxtapose that example with horrific atrocities performed by Christians. If I opened up for all religions to be compared, then I could have easily listed the many atrocities committed by followers of Islam. Not everything is about you or your particular branch of theism, as much as I'm sure that statement just bruised your frail ego. If you are personally offended that I did not use Jewish people in my example, then I can include the way you act on these forums as an example of a horrible Jewish person who likes to treat people like shit. Which I'm sure is what you want so that you can spin around and scream "antisemite , Nazi!"
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:iconbeta-piscium:
Beta-Piscium Featured By Owner 2 days ago  New Deviant
Why does atheism need to be “better”? Are you going to start believing in atheism when it is “proven” that it is “better”?

Do I need to convince you that “not eating pineapple pizza” is better by naming people who don’t eat pineapple pizza and do good things?
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:iconsezzac155:
sezzac155 Featured By Owner 2 days ago
More power to him. He did great and deserves those honours.

However, atheists are not motivated by atheism. We are motivated by our values, which Desmond Doss probably was too but he cites his faith as an important part of it unlike atheists. It's not "better" just different. 
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:iconneiot:
Neiot Featured By Owner Edited 2 days ago  Hobbyist General Artist
Ultimately, religion is a choice. Atheism reflects this. Whether or not you choose to believe in a higher power, you can still hold pacifistic values. If you are Sikh, you are taught that men and women are equal. If you are Christian, you are taught to show compassion to those who are in need. If you are Hindu, you are taught that the soul of an animal is just as important as yours. If you are Atheist, you may not have a doctrine to live by, but you have the capacity to adopt a productive and compassionate mindset.

Atheism is neither better nor worse than other religions. It is simply ... a means of accepting that there is a world beyond belief and doctrine.
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:iconmidnightdj-sk:
MidnightDJ-SK Featured By Owner 2 days ago  Student General Artist
Why does Atheism have to be better? I really don't see why we need to have a dick measuring contest with this one medic and his deeds nearly 80 years ago.

And how do you even measure deeds? I (as an Atheist) donate money to charity, 10 bucks a month for around 4 years. Sure, I am not as great of a person as Doss even by a long shot but I have certainly indirectly saved many lives in developing countries. Not from battle wound perhaps, but lives saved nonetheless. If I keep donating till I die, say for another 40~50 years, I could potentially have saved 10,000s of lives, am I better than Doss then? No IMO, but this kinda makes me question your standards in measuring someone's deeds relating to their religious (or lack thereof) beliefs.

 
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:iconshadowstalker55:
Nothing is better or worse. It’s all subjective. What it comes down to is choice and whether it suits you.
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:iconsleinadflar:
SleinadFlar Featured By Owner 2 days ago  Hobbyist Digital Artist
In my view this Desmond Doss would have been an even better person if he didn't do these things because of his religion, but because of kindness of heart.
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:iconkoshej:
Koshej Featured By Owner 2 days ago
What is truly "good", though?
How do you know, if you aren't told it objectively?

Example:
Is pity always a good approach at someone who seems to be suffering?
Are you SURE?
So would you rather pity a drunkard and give him money - or direct him towards "harsh" rehabilitation?
After all, it's way easier and faster to just PITY him and give him some money.
Never mind that you aren't HELPING him, but rather ENABLING his problem even further.
Since, ya know, you SUBJECTIVELY feel like "being kind and pity the poor fella".
Is that truly GOOD, though?
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:iconsleinadflar:
SleinadFlar Featured By Owner 1 day ago  Hobbyist Digital Artist
You actually have a point here. Take this Desmond Doss fella in the OP for example: a self-proclaimed pacifist, but still voluntarily enlisted in the military and thus enabled the war. Are his actions really good?
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:iconkoshej:
Koshej Featured By Owner 1 day ago
Answer MY question:
How do you know that what FEELS good actually IS good?
Even for yourself, let alone for others that you know nothing about.
So?
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:iconjochannon:
jochannon Featured By Owner 2 days ago
Okay, that's a fair opinion. But it doesn't address my point, in fact in a way you're actually agreeing with me: his faith motivated him to do all those things; his faith made him a better person. Now can you think of anyone who did not have that faith who did do things like that?
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:iconsuthriel:
Suthriel Featured By Owner 2 days ago
Oskar Schindler comes into my mind:


"Initially, Schindler was mostly interested in the money-making potential of the business and hired Jews because they were cheaper than Poles—the wages were set by the occupying Nazi regime.[38] Later he began shielding his workers without regard for cost.[39] The status of his factory as a business essential to the war effort became a decisive factor enabling him to help his Jewish workers. Whenever Schindlerjuden (Schindler Jews) were threatened with deportation, he claimed exemptions for them. He claimed wives, children, and even people with disabilities were necessary mechanics and metalworkers.[39] On one occasion, the Gestapo came to Schindler demanding that he hand over a family that possessed forged identity papers. "Three hours after they walked in," Schindler said, "two drunk Gestapo men reeled out of my office without their prisoners and without the incriminating documents they had demanded."[40]
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:iconmoondancerx0:
MoonDancerX0 Featured By Owner 2 days ago  Hobbyist Digital Artist
First I want to point out that atheism doesn't come with a system of moral teachings like religions do. If you're atheist you just don't believe in deities, or lack belief. You can have atheists who are very kind, giving, compassionate people just like you can have some that are deeply prejudiced jerks. Plenty of atheists do approach their issues with religion from a moral framework, but for the people who act to make the lives of those around them better probably aren't going to say they were deeply inspired by the non-divine nothingness that put into them the spirit of giving. They may already be giving or perhaps they're under pressures that would motivate them to do good.

That said, this thread did lead to me learning about Phillip Randolph. Randolph was a man who not only put effort into organizing worker unions. He would go on to participate in and exert a significant influence on the Civil Rights Movement and it's leaders, including Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. This would include nonviolent confrontation, bloc voting, and mass voter registration. He was also one of the organizers of the March on Washington. I can't really do much justice to what I'm reading because I'm bonkers tired and I'm skimming, but I'm honestly amazed that he didn't get as much of an emphasis in school as Dr. King.

The thing is I wouldn't ever claim that he was motivated by atheism. He was a black man who was born in 1889 and undoubtedly would have been shaped and influenced by the problems that faced people of color over the course of his life from Jim Crow, Segregation, mistreatment in the work place, the KKK, not to mention countless problems with other forms of systemic and cultural racism that are still present to this very day. And even though he was atheist he was not above participating with religion as a means of helping to further the cause of the movement. He apparently pioneered and organized prayer protests.

I'll have to remember to do more research into him after I've had some sleep.

This isn't an effort to try to convince you that atheism is better, but that atheism doesn't prevent someone from doing good deeds. If religion motivated Desmond Doss to save lives I think that's a great thing. So often in my life I have been witness to acts and behaviors I consider evil that were justified by religion, so it's always great to see when the opposite is true.
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:iconjochannon:
jochannon Featured By Owner 2 days ago
First thing I want to say is thank you for responding in such a calm and reasonable manner.

I never heard of Phillip Randolph either. Thanks for bringing him up, he was a pretty cool guy. That having been said, he never said he was atheist. His enemies called him that, trying to discredit him, but he never said he was. He was a Socialist, but most Socialists aren't Atheists.

If you look through the entire compendium of everything I have ever written you would NEVER find the words 'being an atheist stops people from doing good things'. That's not the claim, I have never said that, and a lot of Atheists who are a lot less respectful than you jump straight to that, refusing to acknowledge my actual point: supposing that Randolph was not motivated by religion AT ALL the fact remains that most civil rights leaders WERE: in fact, most civil rights leaders were preachers, of one stripe or another: faith motivates people to do good things.
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:iconmoondancerx0:
MoonDancerX0 Featured By Owner 2 days ago  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Had you caught me a few years ago my reply might have been more in line with what you might expect. Coming out of religion is one of those moments when you feel like everything that you've ever been told your entire life is a lie. Stuff like that can have a strong influence on how people approach their former religion. A truism among atheists is that the most ardent atheist advocates were formally strong believers. It can be a tempestuous road to navigate as we try to figure out how to orient ourselves. Especially if we come from a region where our lack of belief can leave us ostracized from our families, friends, communities, and at risk of limiting our job opportunities.

Also thanks for pointing that out. I still haven't slept yet so my comprehension isn't quite up to snuff ATM. I misread part of the article, but the fact that he signed the Humanist Manifesto II only reinforced my misreading. Though the fact that atheism being used as an attack against a man doing great deeds should at the very least be illustrative of some of the stigma that surrounds atheism, especially back then.

Anyway if I'm understanding you correctly you're taking offense at how your thread is being read. When you start a thread that's labeled "If you want to convince me that Atheism is better. . ." while putting up a person who legit did good deeds it comes off as saying that atheists are morally deficient due to their lack of religion. That's something that could cause people to feel attacked and offended. I went in this with the hope that you weren't necessarily intending to be accusatory, but asking a genuine question.

As for religion in the Civil Rights Movement, religion doesn't entirely occupy the same kind of space for people of color as it would for someone like me. Christianity has helped serve as a tool for people of color to organize and fight against racial injustices. That doesn't mean that religion made them that way. There are a lot of social, political, and economic pressures that contributing to why something like religion might be useful in the first place. It can also be used to cause great harm as is evidenced by the evangelical movement.

Also I don't understand the point you're trying to make about socialists. Anyone can be a socialist. That a majority group happens to have a greater number of people that identify as part of that group doesn't really say anything about atheism or religion. Most capitalists aren't atheist either.
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:iconsuthriel:
Suthriel Featured By Owner 2 days ago
You don´t need to be religious to be a good person. It also isn´t a competition about which one is cooler/better/hotter, or are you just following your religion, because it somehow scored high in your personal ranking, and not, because you truly believe what it offers?

About your request, just to add to what ShuQxx has listed, just look up the names of every firefighter, doctor, nurse and similar people, that are atheists. What do you think, how many people they help during their lifetime?
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:iconshadowstalker55:
Shadowstalker55 Featured By Owner 2 days ago
Yeah, that’s true. As Lois Griffin said.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=3j_PmX…
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:iconjochannon:
jochannon Featured By Owner 2 days ago
If I were to look up the name of 'every firefighter, doctor, nurse and similar people' that are atheists, than would you look up the name of 'every firefighter, doctor, nurse and similar people' that are religious? You'd find that an awful lot more have faith than otherwise.
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:iconsuthriel:
Suthriel Featured By Owner 2 days ago
Maybe, but that does not negate the existence of their atheistic colleagues, who do the same or similar good things without any faith. And you only requested the name of one. So even if you just find two, your first step is fulfilled ;)

And again, why do you even want people to prove, that it´s better or worse? Atheism does not care, if anyone think, it´s superior or worse compared to religion or worldview X (many atheists iknow don´t even think that way, they decide because they are convinced, not because it´s better or worse). And i am pretty sure, most religions don´t have a superior complex either.
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:iconshuqxx:
ShuQxx Featured By Owner Edited 2 days ago   General Artist
How many deaths have been caused by religion? Here's a list of religiously motivated wars and genocides and their death tolls. Let me know if I missed any!
The Crusades: 6,000,000
Thirty Years War: 11,500,000
French Wars of Religion: 4,000,000
Second Sudanese Civil War: 2,000,000
Lebanese Civil War: 250,000
Muslim Conquests of India: 80,000,000
Congolese Genocide (King Leopold II): 13,000,000
Armenian Genocide: 1,500,000
Rwandan Genocide: 800,000
Eighty Years' War: 1,000,000
Nigerian Civil War: 1,000,000
Great Peasants' Revolt: 250,000
First Sudanese Civil War: 1,000,000
Jewish Diaspora (Not Including the Holocaust): 1,000,000
The Holocaust (Jewish and Homosexual Deaths): 6,500,000
Islamic Terrorism Since 2000: 150,000
Iraq War: 500,000
US Western Expansion (Justified by "Manifest Destiny"):20,000,000
Atlantic Slave Trade (Justified by Christianity): 14,000,000
Aztec Human Sacrifice: 80,000
AIDS deaths in Africa largely due to opposition to condoms: 30,000,000
Spanish Inquisition: 5,000
TOTAL: 195,035,000 deaths in the name of religion/god.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religiou…

www.reddit.com/r/atheism/comme…

www.swnewsmedia.com/eden_prair…

Here's a list of athiests that have contributed to society and thus either directly/indirectly saved lives:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lists_of…



I'm not gonna say it's better.  There is no point in doing so. I'm not sure why you nor your religion would compel you to insist it's better than other gods or atheism either. Is pride in yourself and your supposedly superiority in belief/faith/religion not a sin? Is your religion not about acceptance?
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:iconblackbook668:
blackbook668 Featured By Owner 2 days ago
There's an argument that has arisen from this inclusion of the Holocaust and my opinion on the matter is this, that it is simplifying matters as well as tacitly downplaying the role of white supremacist thought, to frame the Holocaust as a theistic inspired or atheistic inspired event.

Hitler's targeting of the Jews was the product of generations of anti-Semitic thought ingrained in German culture and really Hitler merely adopted this thinking, he did not create it. To frame it from a religious perspective is to underplay it's nationalistic, more importantly, race-based perspective; the Jews, seen as foreign entities, were treated with much suspicion and at the end of the then Great War, were labelled as traitors to the German people.

You only need look at the language of anti-Semitism to see where it is really coming from. I'm mentioning this because I believe both Koshej and Shadowstalker completely miss the point in framing it in such a light as religious persecution. No, the Holocaust is far darker than that. It was an attack on people and faith was an excuse given, not a reason for, such an attack.

That aside, I don't dispute the idea religion has contributed a lot to conflict, however I'm sure many of these wars would have taken place anyway regardless, for their motive is power and the thirst for power exists separate from religion. Religion takes good men and makes them do bad things but never think that man, free of religion, would be innocent for it merely serves as an outlet, not the cause, of evil.
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:iconfred1009:
fred1009 Featured By Owner 1 day ago
I've said it before: It's really about which tribe of Ju-Ju men get to speak for God. A lot of wealth and political power can come with being a high ranking witchdoctor. Blaming non-believers is a good diversion tactic.   
.
By contrast count up the number of scientists who have committed murder over a scientific dispute.  
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:iconshuqxx:
ShuQxx Featured By Owner 1 day ago   General Artist
Thanks for speaking so maturely and civilly on the matter :)
I definitely can see and probably agree with most of what you said. I just copied the list from the reddit, silly dA just somehow took out my quote formatting and I didn't notice.
I think the point you made about nationalism being framed or passed of as religious persecution is definitely valid, and honestly I am not familiar with this or other wars enough to make any proper comment on it either, but I'd say some of the wars listed (like the more recent US ones) and not listed here can be the opposite too. Especially with the more "modern" wars (i.e. I dunno.. let's say the 1900s onwards..) the motives behind them were indeed never that simple.
Religion takes good men and makes them do bad things but never think that man, free of religion, would be innocent for it merely serves as an outlet, not the cause, of evil.
Again, I very much agree with you. Humans would do evil regardless of religion. I don't doubt that there are people who used the name of their god/religion to do evil quite likely used it as a motive for their real (unreligious) means. Though the fact that religious organisations (or the ones who hold the power - especially back in the day where the Church had power over government/monarchies and really did a lot of bad in the name of god/religion, or say the "terrorists"/islamic or muslim extremists, etc.. is very troubling.
Troubling in that something that supposedly (I assume teach love, acceptance. And not limited to the bible, I generally assume all religious generally have love and all that goodness at the core) can even be allow such twisted interpretations that promote hate/unacceptance. I just feel like.. they had/have all this power, and they couldn't somehow fail-safe or fool-proof it to not allow for it.
... but I guess that just circles back to humans being flawed and capable of evil^^;
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:iconblackbook668:
blackbook668 Featured By Owner 1 day ago
No problem. It's not often a reply of mine is called mature, so thanks :)
It's not a subject I get judgemental about because it's something which interests me, so even when you get people who act all coy with suggestions that it was all faked I'm more curious as to why someone would think that way than going into attack mode.
You should keep in mind a lot of what I say is reasoning rather than solid fact, things I have observed, having learned a little about the Nazis. Hitler is pretty dismissive when it comes to religion, his motive and that of the party isn't really religious. You see it in the rise of the Nazis, their language. Jews to them are rats, through and through, they didn't give a damn about what such creatures (in their view) believed, that'd be quite besides the point as to why they hated them.
My overall point, by the way, is that I think framing wars as either the fault of religion or not is a little simplistic though there is some point to it, religion doesn't lead you down a path of righteousness and many times can and has been warped to suit agendas.
If I were to boil down human evil, it'd all go down to power dynamics though I have major disagreements when it comes to how this works with current thinking. In my opinion, power can very rapidly change hands and no one group possesses inherent power over another, just long-term power that can, given the right circumstances, be denied and turned on it's head.
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:iconshuqxx:
ShuQxx Featured By Owner Edited 1 day ago   General Artist
No problem. It's not often a reply of mine is called mature, so thanks
Hahaha ^^; Well.. I vaguely recall that we may have somewhat butted heads over differing opinions or something before, but especially on sensitive topics like this.. I admire/appreciate people who can discuss things without taking things (too) personally, keeping an open mind, and being accepting of differing opinions/viewpoints and such :)
If I were to boil down human evil... ...
I partially agree. Power is definitely a part of it. I'd say it's just ingrained in human nature. Being selfish, self-serving (essentially what the 7sins comprise of: wanting (more) power, money, stability, food, etcetc. for yourself (and loved ones)) is really very natural (and traits passed down through evolution because it's pretty beneficial for surival). And some people take it to extremes and are willing or very able to hurt/harm/exploit others to gain some (even minute) advantage.
Of course on one side you can say that a person who does this is smart, caring (to his family), patriotic,.. and on the other side you can say he's selfish, evil, greedy, racist, etc.
So from a completely objective standpoint, I think it's very hard to say that things (like those covered by the 7sins) that are so naturally human are evil.
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:iconjochannon:
jochannon Featured By Owner 2 days ago
Look, dude. You could have made your point in a simple, calm, non confrontational way. You could have done it very easily. Instead, you chose to do it in an angry confrontational. That is not smart. On top of that, you make a lot of presumptions about me and my faith; you know nothing about me, but you assume that you know all about me. That is arrogance.

Incidentally, an awful lot of that list is wrong: and if we wanted to, I could give you a long list of people killed by Atheists. But I won't because I'm mature enough to just let this go. I advise you to do the same.
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:iconshuqxx:
ShuQxx Featured By Owner Edited 1 day ago   General Artist
I'm not sure how you found what I wrote angry confrontational at all..
Maybe "calmly and maturely" read it again and not "arrogantly" assume I'm a horrible atheist :shrug: ? I didn't call you any names, I didn't make any assumptions. I gave quoted the links/facts straightforwardly and asked you questions to allow you to clarify your standpoint and exactly as to not assume anything about you.
If it's about this:
I'm not gonna say it's better. There is no point in doing so.
It's because what's better for you may not be better for me.
Unlike you, I see no point in making such a subjective statement about something being better than something else. What's the point of me telling you/others what I believe or think? Or in telling you/others what I think they should believe?
So maybe, think about why you feel the need to tell people going about their lives that what they believe in is in some way inferior to yours. And in what way (from an objective perspective) that is providing a positive contribution to the world.
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:iconfred1009:
fred1009 Featured By Owner 1 day ago
When people talk about Stalin and Mao they ignore weapons technology and political organization. 

Thought experiment: Do you think Christian Crusaders would have restrained themselves if they had automatic weapons? For true believers including those whose "faith" is political ideology murder comes easy.   
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:iconkoshej:
Koshej Featured By Owner 2 days ago
Just realized:
Stalin and Mao would raise the figures into TENS of MILLIONS easily.
But idiots won't listen, ya know.
They already BELIEVE so strongly, lol.
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:iconkoshej:
Koshej Featured By Owner 2 days ago
Holocaust was an ATHEISTIC (or even ANTI-THEISTIC) war, lol.
It was strictly based on the idea of eradicating the less-than-human humans, which came from "evolution", not from "religion".
Not that you'd understand that.
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:iconshadowstalker55:
Shadowstalker55 Featured By Owner 2 days ago
That’s not true. The Nazis were against atheism as well.
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:iconkoshej:
Koshej Featured By Owner 2 days ago
This is an outright LIE.
Nazi ideology was CLEARLY based on the idea that "different humans evolved differently".
They segregated people by literally measuring their biological phenotypes.
Learn some facts, Sophia.
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:iconkoshej:
Koshej Featured By Owner 2 days ago
Note how it was COMMUNISTS, not ATHEISTS.
But who am I trying to educate, lol?
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