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November 24, 2016
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Is recognition that Jews have the best ideology of the Abrahamic cults the reason Muslims and Christ

:icongreatest-i-am:
Greatest-I-am Featured By Owner Nov 24, 2016

Is recognition that Jews have the best ideology of the Abrahamic cults the reason Muslims and Christians hate Jews?

 

www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/031…

Rabbi Hillel, the older contemporary of Jesus, said that when asked to sum up the whole of Jewish teaching, while he stood on one leg, said, "The Golden Rule. That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the Torah. And everything else is only commentary. Now, go and study it."

 

Please listen as to what is said about literal reading.

 

"Origen, the great second or third century Greek commentator on the Bible said that it is absolutely impossible to take these texts literally. You simply cannot do so. And he said, "God has put these sort of conundrums and paradoxes in so that we are forced to seek a deeper meaning."

 

Muslims and Christians foolishly read their holy books literally, ignoring that none of the Abrahamic cults did in the past.

 

bigthink.com/videos/what-is-go…

 

This fact makes Muslims and Christians idol worshipers. All Muslim and Christian denominations ignore that the Jesus they all profess to respect preached that we should all be God seekers and never become idol worshipers the way Muslims and Christians have done.

 

www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR02ci…

 

Gnostic Christians like me were and are esoteric ecumenists. You might say that to the old Abrahamic cults of Muslims, Christians and Jews, we were the religious whores of those old days, thanks to the fact that our mystery schools would pick and choose the best tenets of all religions and work them into our Universalist creed. We would not tie ourselves down to becoming idol worshipers of imaginary demiurges the way Muslims and Christians did in ancient days and continue to do today. The fool says in his heart, I know who God is and who his prophets are.

 

Gnostic Christians and Jews, --- having a superior ideology and philosophy of seeking a good God, --- instead of becoming idol worshipers like Muslims and Christians, --- shared the hate and attempted genocide that Jews suffered thanks to Christians then Muslims.

 

Should Muslims and Christians admit their ideological deficiencies and turn their hate to love. It should be quite easy for religions that say they are all about peace and love.

 

I think it would be fitting for Muslims and Christians to start walking their talk and apologise to Jews and Gnostic Christians by giving them the recognition for excellence in religious matters.

 

Regards

DL

 

www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMJATB…

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:iconschechterarts:
SchechterArts Featured By Owner Jan 2, 2017   General Artist
Interesting, but a bit of a broad brush.

You can find fanatics & violent fools in every religion, even in Buddhism, that most peaceful of the major faiths. Judaism has its share, take my word for it. The main difference is that Judaism is not expansionist; it doesn't look for converts nor seek to claim other lands for its dominion. Christianity once had that general tendency before the Wars of the Reformation & Counter-Reformation, & Islam began with that tendency & still has it today. This is why the Jewish extremists are pretty much limited to Israel (i.e., Baruch Goldstein), whereas Islamist terror strikes have occurred on every major landmass so far except the polar ice caps. There has been Jewish terrorism in the United States, but it's rare & the perpetrators are usually caught pretty quickly due to their incompetence.

Re the Hebrews' war against the Canaanite tribes: First, there is no record of that outside the OT. The oldest archaeological evidence for a definite Hebrew people has been found in northern Israel: Remains of stone houses, built 1100-1000 B.C.E. Secondly, even if it did happen, the Hebrews' effort should be considered in context to judge them fairly. In ancient times, the concept of human rights was unknown. Whatever belief there was in the value of an individual life was limited to one's own people; it did not apply to anyone not of one's in-group. Also, in the story the tribes had nowhere to go. They'd been wandering in the desert for 40 years & obviously couldn't do that forever. That does not excuse any extermination of Canaanites, of course, but it does give insight into motives.
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:iconjesshavok:
JessHavok Featured By Owner Dec 14, 2016  Professional Digital Artist
Is recognition that Jews have the best ideology of the Abrahamic cults the reason Muslims and Christians hate Jews?
Back when I was Christian, I never hated Jews. I merely saw their sect of the Abrahamic religion as something fine for them, and they were doing the same thing I was, just in different ways, as the 'Mosaic law' allowed. -So its not all that hate Jews (in fact I've not met any who openly do), surely there are a few out there though. Shrug 


I'm out of that now though, now that I've stepped back and looked at the picture as a whole, I see the flaws and issues with all of it and religion in general. I'm a happy, free, atheist now lol. 
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:icongreatest-i-am:
Greatest-I-am Featured By Owner Dec 15, 2016
All who have a good moral sense will turn away from the mainstream Gods of war.

Fight them when you can my friend. I see it as a part of our duty to mankind.

For evil to grow, all good people need do is nothing.

Regards
DL
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:iconjesshavok:
JessHavok Featured By Owner Dec 15, 2016  Professional Digital Artist
True, they really are very much warring violent religions. Best I can do though on your note, is make people think about what it is they are worshiping, and point out why its not as good as they might think it is. My hyper religious uncle I think ignored my long ass FaceBook note on the issues, paradoxes, and wrongs within Christianity. While my mother still doesn't understand me, I think I've at least opened her eyes slightly as to where I'm coming from. -Some people have been stuck in religion for so long though, when a person reaches a certain age, some don't want to change.

Not out to try and convert people though (to be fair my uncle started it), I just feel sorry for people stuck worshiping things (evil book characters) that aren't there. Saddens me to know that this lunacy is even endorsed by many physiologist these days.
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:icongreatest-i-am:
Greatest-I-am Featured By Owner Dec 16, 2016
I hear you.

You, with your more gentle mental touch than mine, might do better than I at making theists think.

As a fundamental to free thinking, I come on strong as I have come to hate those whose thinking has been compromised by religions and their lies.

Keep up the good work my friend.

Regards
DL 
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:iconsaeter:
Saeter Featured By Owner Dec 14, 2016
It can be said that the only reason christians tolerate jews is because christian mythology is predicated on jewish mythology and part of that mythology is that once all the jews are in Israel the world can end as prophesied.
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:iconunicronwars:
UnicronWars Featured By Owner Dec 14, 2016  Hobbyist Writer
I've heard of creepy people like that who call themselves Christians and pretend to support Israel, but don't really love Israel or the Jews because the God of Israel loves them, but rather because the creepy people see Israel and the Jews as a means to an end, namely starting WWIII and destroying the world to force Jesus to return and be reunited with God, which is literally how terrorists think.
We're dealing with real-life villains here.

I'm a Christian Zionist, and I love Jews as people and fellow humans, not pawns to be expended to bring back a very Jewish Jesus whom I believe will be quite displeased with the creepy people.
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:icongreatest-i-am:
Greatest-I-am Featured By Owner Dec 14, 2016
I agree.

Regards
DL
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:iconintermetal:
intermetal Featured By Owner Edited Dec 14, 2016
I don't know how anyone can extrapolate the Golden Rule from the Old Testament. The Hebrews didn't capture the Promised Land by doing as they would be done by. They did it by committing genocide. See Numbers 31:17-18 for example, which describes Moses ordering the slaughter of male Midianite children and the keeping of girls, by the troops, for reasons we are left to surmise. Maybe there is a moral interpretation of that which can be derived from an allegorical reading, but I find that notion unlikely. 

The morality of the New Testament seems a major improvement on that of the Old.

I don't think the things you mention has much to do with hatred of Jews. Christian hatred of Jews (to the extent that it exists) owes a lot to the Jewish role as financiers, and practice of usury (loans with interest, and interest on interest). Jewish chuvinism and their habit of setting themselves apart from (and above) the rest of humanity also caused resentment. For example Jewish men had a prayer wherein they thanked the creator for not making them a gentile or a woman. There is also some anti-Christian stuff in the Talmud, which didn't go down well with the Christians when they became aware of it. Myths like the blood libel (the idea that Jews murder Christian babies and use the blood in the bread they bake at passover) which seem to have been commonly believed, though the church did not endorse such claims, also contributed to hatred of Jews.

Islam is no more hostile to Judaism than it is to Christianity. Islam seeks either the conversion of these other religions or the submission of their members as 'dhimmah'. Meanwhile the Quran repeatedly tells Muslims not to be friends with Jews or Christians. 

Not sure how esotericism automatically arrives at a truer or superior ideology. Much of the Old Testament is tribal myth and history, there is little to indicate that it is intended to be read as allegory. The mystical interpretations are later inventions, probably imaginative exercises extracting hidden meanings which were never intended. 
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:icongreatest-i-am:
Greatest-I-am Featured By Owner Dec 14, 2016
Firstly, esoteric ecumenists are free thinkers who can and do cherry pick the best morality they can find, regardless of where they find it, and can incorporate it into their theology because they are not idol worshipers who fear teaching their God a better and more moral way.

You mentioned the Jewish genocide but should recognize that Jews basically condemned their God for his causing that situation. Compare that to Christians who try and fail to justify their God's genocide of the whole world, save 8.

vimeo.com/7038401

To your general theme. All religions put themselves above the other religions so to blame one without blaming them all would not be right.

Overall, a good read so thinks for the reply.

Regards
DL
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:iconintermetal:
intermetal Featured By Owner Dec 14, 2016
If you're cherrypicking or interpreting stuff to suit your morality (or cosmology), why do you need the old texts in the first place? Your judgment is surely independent of the source material, for you to be doing that. Cherrypicking is not interpretation.

Equating belief in scripture and taking it at face value with idolatry doesn't seem legitimate, to me. You might equally be accused of idolising your imaginary mystical interpretation. There's no proof that any esoteric reading is accurate or was the intended understanding. 

How one condemn one's god? That would seem presumptuous. God, if he exists, presumably sees and knows things that humans know not. Jews do have this tradition of intellectual wrestling with god, which implies an ability to overcome him...

Do not Jews similarly justify the deluge, and believe the people wiped out were all evil?

Christians only have to because it's a story inherited in the Old Testament, one of those that make it understandable that some Christians wanted to drop the Old Testament altogether.
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:icongreatest-i-am:
Greatest-I-am Featured By Owner Dec 15, 2016
Esoteric ecumenists cherry pick for sure. We try to take the good and discard the evil.

As to using scriptures. If I want to criticize their God, I have to use what they believe to do it, especially when what they believe to be good is evil.

You are correct in that I am fundamentally tied to my view of God but being perpetual seekers, Gnostic Christians are always ready to adjust that fundamental belief. That is what being a free thinker is all about.


 "Jews do have this tradition of intellectual wrestling with god, which implies an ability to overcome him..."

Indeed and the Karaite branch of Jewry says, rightly so, that a Rabbi can overrule what is written of God and God himself, which is basically the Gnostic Christian and Jesus' view. 

"Do not Jews similarly justify the deluge, and believe the people wiped out were all evil?"

Few Jews read their scriptures literally and Midrash is used quite a bit to try to explain the conundrums they find in their writings.

www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/031…

 

Rabbi Hillel, the older contemporary of Jesus, said that when asked to sum up the whole of Jewish teaching, while he stood on one leg, said, "The Golden Rule. That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the Torah. And everything else is only commentary. Now, go and study it."

 

Please listen as to what is said about literal reading.

 

"Origen, the great second or third century Greek commentator on the Bible said that it is absolutely impossible to take these texts literally. You simply cannot do so. And he said, "God has put these sort of conundrums and paradoxes in so that we are forced to seek a deeper meaning."


Here is an example of how a Rabbi uses Midrash on the  myth of Noah. It is rather slow to go but has interesting things to say on Noah and Genesis.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAJkiU…

You are correct in that Christians wish to forget that Jesus, as a Triune member, is not nearly as big of a prick as Yahweh is shown to be.

Jesus, while still having some immoral tenets, like his no divorce for women and his sacrifice policies, is still a lot more palatable than Yahweh.

Regards
DL 
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:iconkillianseraphim:
KillianSeraphim Featured By Owner Dec 14, 2016  Student General Artist
I wouldn't know, as no Christian I've ever been aware of have ever looked at Judaism with anything less than respect, both as our predecessor and foremost experts on Old Testament scripture and the culture it was written to.
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:icongreatest-i-am:
Greatest-I-am Featured By Owner Dec 14, 2016
Then you do not know of Christian history. These may help.

www.hearnow.org/caljp.html

www.youtube.com/watch?v=_npDo0…

Regards
DL
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:iconkillianseraphim:
KillianSeraphim Featured By Owner Dec 14, 2016  Student General Artist
Christian history is another matter, and you'd be hard pressed to find a Christian today that claims the church's history was flawless.

It's filled with people, and people are legendary at screwing up.
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:icongreatest-i-am:
Greatest-I-am Featured By Owner Dec 14, 2016
True, but those Christians today who do not think they are screwing up when following a genocidal son murdering God, are not really looking at the morality of that God while morality should be their number one consideration.

Regards
DL
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:iconkillianseraphim:
KillianSeraphim Featured By Owner Dec 14, 2016  Student General Artist
I would disagree.  I would say those that follow this particular God and His Son find Him to be moral, as they see Christ's death as an act of mercy on the part of Christ's willingness to do so.
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:icongreatest-i-am:
Greatest-I-am Featured By Owner Dec 15, 2016
The bible and the way Jesus complained on the mount belies what you say of Jesus and his willingness as he clearly states that he is doing God's will and not his own.

But if you believe you can find good morals in a genocidal son murdering God, enjoy.

Who is your second favorite source of morality? Hitler?

Regards
DL
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:iconkillianseraphim:
KillianSeraphim Featured By Owner Dec 15, 2016  Student General Artist
The fact that He surrendered Himself to God's will to begin with belies the point you were attempting to make. The fact that He didn't try to fight back or save Himself in any way, also belies your point. All the Gethsemene prayer shows is what many people forget, that Christ was just as much man as He was God.

And King David, actually, is my second favorite source, Elijah the third.
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:icongreatest-i-am:
Greatest-I-am Featured By Owner Dec 16, 2016
So you like the fact, as the bible states, that God torture king David's baby for 6 days before finally killing it all because God was angry with the king, which goes against what scriptures say, which is we are all responsible for our own sins.

This shows how your beliefs have corrupted your morality and sense of justice.

Would you emulate and follow your Gods ways on this and punish the innocent instead of the guilty?

Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

 

Deuteronomy 24:16 (ESV) "Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.

 

Ezekiel 18:20 (ESV) The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.


Regards
DL
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(1 Reply)
:iconsaeter:
Saeter Featured By Owner Dec 14, 2016
I've met several on these very boards that try to rationalize the atrocities and inhumanity in the bible.
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:iconkillianseraphim:
KillianSeraphim Featured By Owner Dec 14, 2016  Student General Artist
Are we talking the bible, or church history?  
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:iconsaeter:
Saeter Featured By Owner Dec 14, 2016
Bible.
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:iconkillianseraphim:
KillianSeraphim Featured By Owner Dec 14, 2016  Student General Artist
Not the same as church history.  
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:iconsaeter:
Saeter Featured By Owner Dec 14, 2016
By their fruits you shall know them. Truth is religion doesn't make people better. It's just an inaccurate view of reality.
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(1 Reply)
:iconunicronwars:
UnicronWars Featured By Owner Dec 13, 2016  Hobbyist Writer
Some Christians like me love Jews and recognize the Jewish roots of our religion.
The made-up false Christianity that rejects its Jewish roots and hates Judaism is a racist cult based on lies and assimilating the Pagan rituals of the Pagan peoples they conquer and force to convert to their false Christianity, and mainly brings death and stupidity, from the Dark Ages to the Holocaust.
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:icongreatest-i-am:
Greatest-I-am Featured By Owner Dec 14, 2016
U C 20/20

Regards
DL
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:icongisteron:
Gisteron Featured By Owner Nov 25, 2016
Funny, how many places you post the same thing, it's almost like you're not interested in communicating with anyone so much as just spreading your message.
www.bluelight.org/vb/threads/8…
www.twcenter.net/forums/showth…
www.templeofthejediorder.org/f…
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:icongreatest-i-am:
Greatest-I-am Featured By Owner Dec 13, 2016
I am here for you any time you wish to get on topic.

If you have something against freedom of speech or association then do not bother.

Regards
DL
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:iconkoshej:
Koshej Featured By Owner Nov 25, 2016
What is your opinion on Noahidism?
Do you even know what it really is?

Also:
Can anyone reach God through our human capabilities - or is the "contact" only possible on God's own wish?
And reversely, can anyone dare to have an opinion different from God's, and still claim to follow God's command(ments)?
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:icongreatest-i-am:
Greatest-I-am Featured By Owner Dec 13, 2016
I do know a bit about Noahidism and have nothing against them. They are fairly rare.

Yes we can reach God through human capabilities. Just not the absentee miracle working mythical one that religions have made up.

"And reversely, can anyone dare to have an opinion different from God's, and still claim to follow God's command(ments)?"

Certainly, when God breaks his own commandments and he does so often if we are to take the myths as literal.

Follow your God my friend. He is you.

Gnostic Christian Jesus said, "If those who attract you say, 'See, the Kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you.

If they say to you, 'It is under the earth,' then the fish of the sea will precede you.

Rather, the Kingdom of God is inside of you, and it is outside of you.

[Those who] become acquainted with [themselves] will find it; [and when you] become acquainted with yourselves, [you will understand that] it is you who are the sons of the living Father.

But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty."


Regards
DL
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:iconkoshej:
Koshej Featured By Owner Dec 14, 2016
Please, refrain from calling your own made-up personal Golden Calf Pharaoh FSM, "God".
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:iconunicronwars:
UnicronWars Featured By Owner Edited Nov 24, 2016  Hobbyist Writer
Why would anyone follow a religion if they think that its Demiurges are imaginary?
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:icongreatest-i-am:
Greatest-I-am Featured By Owner Dec 13, 2016
Gnostic Christians do not follow the Abrahamic Gods.

We do give the esoteric Jesus some credit but not the Jesus' that Christianity and Rome created.

You do see more than 1 Jesus in scriptures, I hope.

I like this one.

Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

 

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

 

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Are you ready to step up?

www.youtube.com/watch?v=alRNbe…

Regards
DL

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:iconunicronwars:
UnicronWars Featured By Owner Dec 13, 2016  Hobbyist Writer
When you say "Abrahamic Gods", do you mean the Elohim?

I have a theory that the idea of the Torah being monotheistic is a (possibly intentional) translation error, that the Elohim are not a triune trinity consisting of three persons in one supreme god (that's a Hindu idea, not a Scriptural one) but are rather the same gods that the Sumerians called the Anunnaki, and that El, YHWH, and Adonai are a more traditional Trinity of three related gods, who were respectively called Anu, Enki, and Enlil by the Sumerians.
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:icongreatest-i-am:
Greatest-I-am Featured By Owner Dec 14, 2016
You are right that Jews wanted to get rid of all the other Gods and go to the one but they never really managed to kill off all the other God and Goddesses.

I think that that is a normal evolution to our thinking as we all live in hierarchical systems with only one master, so to speak, be he a King Prime Minister or President.

It is a recognition of natural law where only one alpha male is allowed per tribe.

Regards
DL
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:iconmorellsunweaver:
MorellSunweaver Featured By Owner Nov 24, 2016  Hobbyist General Artist
In my opinion mystic of all these religions is what takes real best of them.
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:icongreatest-i-am:
Greatest-I-am Featured By Owner Dec 13, 2016
Insightful.

I agree.

That is the way Gnostic Christianity sees it.

I often quote this.

Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

 

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

 

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.


These relate as well.

Luke 11:52 Woe unto you, lawyers! for ye have taken away the key of knowledge: ye entered not in yourselves, and them that were entering in ye hindered.

 

Mark 7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.


Regards
DL
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:iconunicronwars:
UnicronWars Featured By Owner Edited Dec 13, 2016  Hobbyist Writer
Mark 7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Our Creator warned us about the dangers of institutionalized religion with wise warnings such as this one, even when He took human form and spoke to us face-to-face.
Too bad a lot of humans prefer religion to seeking God.
Also too bad that religious institutions rarely read the many passages warning about the dangers of institutionalized religion, and usually warp their meaning when they do quote them. :no:
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:icongreatest-i-am:
Greatest-I-am Featured By Owner Dec 14, 2016
I agree with all except this fantasy.

"Our Creator warned us about the dangers of institutionalized religion with wise warnings such as this one, even when He took human form and spoke to us face-to-face."

"John 6 ; 63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life."

You are speaking of the wold of matter while Jesus was speaking of the spirit world.

Seek inside yourself as Jesus advises and prove it all to yourself.

There is only one God you can know and it is you. You have potential to lead so do not follow like a sheep.

Regards
DL

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