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January 16, 2007
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AMG! You can critique...PROFESSIONALLY! U R TEH GODZ.

:iconmitsusei:
mitsusei Featured By Owner Jan 16, 2007
Just because you've gone to an art school doesn't mean you know what you're talking about. Yes. It's true. Arhmagawd. I'm exposing your secret.

Just because you've worked as a designer for 20 years doesn't mean you can tell someone their design of a costume sucked. I'm sorry. You probably can tell that ugly betty's shoes doesn't match her eye. But maybe, just maybe - you forgot - We don't all work with silk and cashmere. We don't have readily available supplies of leather, beads and 20 assistance. We work with what we have - paper, pencil and mental images of whatever the hell naruto was wearing on last friday's episode (Or the lack of, for some of us, heheh.)

And oh, you might be a 4th year student at the Ontario College of Art and Design or Sheridan animation - but that still doesn't mean you're a great artist. Sure, you've learned the skills by doodling NaruSasu yaoi in theory, you've learned the functions of Photoshop by defacing someone's picture, and you've learned the concepts when you slept through practical lab. you have that slight advantage over the rest of us - the bragging rights of going to college - but that really is just about it.

And yes, We ALL KNOW how you had the BESTEST professor EVER. As in, ever since kindergarden, you've never seen anyone so smart. Right? Right. And, erm, how many professors have you ever had? One? Oh, well, that's hardly a good number for comparison.

Huh? wazzat?! YOU'RE THAT OMG POPULAR DUDE ON TV TELLING PEOPLE ABOUT ARTZ?! Well, god DAMN. You're used to getting paid two hundred thousand per episode for reading BS some off stage, unknown salary man wrote? AND YOU'RE GIVING FREE CRITIQUES NOW?! WHOAAA. MUST... LINE UP... FOR... FREEBIES!!

No, okay, seriously now. >_> We all know that Critiqing someone's art means telling them what you think. "Professional critique" is another word for hey, look, I remotely know what I'm talking about and you can trust me on that because I've went to college and know what art classes are like. Critiquing is telling someone what you think they can do to look better.... in your opinion. I can show you one single piece of random doodles I came up with in 30 seconds and I would get 600 different critiques for it.

I personally believe that art is heavily influenced by whatever experience, feelings, and desires you have. you do things differently if you're drawing in a difference place, if you're under watched eyes, or if you have a gun held at gun point. If someone draws Emo, then yes, they're emo. If someone draws happy go lucky Narusasu pictures, then yes, they're rabid fangirls. If someone attempts to draw goth and fails horribly at it, then YES, THEY'RE GOTH WANNABES.

So you're telling me that even though you know nothing about me, you're not trying to understand my previous works, and disregarding pretty much my entire line of history, you can properly and accurately critique my complete concept on the piece, tell me what I think about life, and, ignoring the color schemes, tells me that it would look better otherwise?

HELL, NO.

Now, unless you're leonardo di vinci or michaelangelo incarnate, PLEASE. DON'T start off rambling artsy fartsy terms like you're comboing in street fighter. DON'T go around telling people what they're doing wrong like God's going to smite some poor bamboo smix pandas when you're not using the perfect tone or color. DON'T act like you understand their concept completely because you don't, and, because I know some of you are going to claim you are the reincarnation of the dude who painted the sistin chaptel - please, for the love of all things emo - DON'T critique my anime, because I sure as the moon's still orbiting around the earth that I DID NOT PAINT THEM ON FRESCOS.

:] Thank you. For listening to yet another of Mitsu's thread-to-counter-post threads.

Now you may run around the room with sisscors in one hand and fling about carelessly soap on a rope in the other.
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Devious Comments

:iconfourteenthstar:
fourteenthstar Featured By Owner Jan 18, 2007
Closed at request of OP.
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:iconfourteenthstar:
fourteenthstar Featured By Owner Jan 18, 2007
Closed at request of OP
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:iconbrontolina:
brontolina Featured By Owner Jan 18, 2007
I remember that one guy who frequented the forums all the time, would say something outrageously stupid, then backed up his points with, "I'M AN ART TEACHER, I KNOW WAY MORE ABOUT IT THAN YOU!" :unimpressed: Most desperate and flawed attempt at succeeding in an argument... Ever.
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:iconlady-jonia:
Lady-Jonia Featured By Owner Jan 18, 2007
Damn...you pretty much set yourself up for that. The OP clearly stated what not and what to do and what the point of the tread was. CRITIQUE.

As for people who graduate or had some expericence in art school, they have merit. They've had the lessions in all sorts of aspects, not just the eye-candy most anime artists only seem to care about.

This tread is just a whhammbulence-filled counter, with assumptions you just pulled out of the blue because someone didn't say how OMG, your art is SO AWSOME; +fav. Deal.
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:iconcjade:
cjade Featured By Owner Jan 18, 2007  Hobbyist General Artist
YOU THERE! CRITIQUE ME!
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:iconlady-jonia:
Lady-Jonia Featured By Owner Jan 18, 2007
You kissed in line ! NO SOUP FOR YOU ! D:<
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:iconcjade:
cjade Featured By Owner Jan 18, 2007  Hobbyist General Artist
Oh yeah?! Well.... :ninjadart:
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:iconcjade:
cjade Featured By Owner Jan 18, 2007  Hobbyist General Artist
You're being a bit overly sensitive.

Critique IS telling someone what you think, but in a polite and civil manner. However, polite and civil does NOT mean they have to be nice.

In my English classes in school, both highschool and college, whenever I got someone's writing assignments for peer review, I'd read every single bit of it and always carry a red colored pencil. I'd mark the HELL out of someone's rough draft and mercilessly point out every typo, grammar error, and wording problem I could find and write a lot of notes on the side with suggestions on how to make it flow better, make more sense, or just in general... suck less. People often thought I was a bitch for it, but those who followed my suggestions usually got a B or an A on their assignment when they might have gotten a C or a D otherwise. How do I know this? A few of them actually came up and thanked me for it. I even did it to my best friend at the time, even though she was and still is a better writer than I am and got a higher percentage in the class than I did at the end.

With my papers, I wish people would have taken the time to do the same, because I know that my writing often wasn't as good as it could be because of the fact that it's almost impossible to find errors in something I've created. There's a psychological reason for it, but I forget what it's called... but regardless, that's why editors exist, because chances are the first, second, or even third drafts of anything are always going to be subpar and need revision. I did good in my English classes, particularly in the writings of essays and stories, but I really wish someone would have had the balls to really read my stuff, tear it to hell, tape a few notes on it, and then show me what I needed to improve on.

Same goes for art... I only have maybe 2 or 3 people who watch me who'd be willing to actually look at my pictures, tear them to hell, show me what's wrong, and suggest on how to fix it, and unfortunately they're not on all that much. I would love it if a graphic designer who had been in the field for even 5 years came by my gallery and cared enough to give me honest and truthful critique. Even if they had art that I would call 'worse' than mine... they still have the experience that I don't have.

So, critiquing is not about being nice and telling someone their work and/or style is good when there is room for improvement. It's about being honest and pointing out the flaws and how to fix them in a mature and civil manner. It doesn't even have to point out the good in a drawing or what the artist is doing right, granted people who CAN include compliments along with the flaws are usually paid more attention to since doing so is considered to be 'nicer'.
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:iconvolensvivarium:
VolensVivarium Featured By Owner Jan 18, 2007
The exact same thing happens to me when I do peer review. My friends in high school were thankful for it, because I was merciless with my red pen (and they would openly admit that they needed some brutal proofreading and revision), but my college English department buddies are completely shocked by it because I'm completely truthful about what sucks and what doesn't. So I can't get a proper reviewer for my own stuff, because all the people I know here are so focused on being inoffensive that they won't tell me exactly what's wrong with my stuff.


(And now I'm very tempted to ask you to revise my currently nonexistant creative writing assignments.)
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:iconcjade:
cjade Featured By Owner Jan 18, 2007  Hobbyist General Artist
lol, send them over my way when they do exist and I'll do my best to rip them to shreds. :D
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:iconvolensvivarium:
VolensVivarium Featured By Owner Jan 18, 2007
Want a poem about a vomiting aardvark? That was result of today's assignment.
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:iconcjade:
cjade Featured By Owner Jan 18, 2007  Hobbyist General Artist
Sure thing, send it on over, though I don't know how much help I'll be. >.> Poetry's not my forte. D:
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:iconlinzer-torte:
linzer-torte Featured By Owner Jan 17, 2007
Oh, also, critiquing your piece != critiquing you as a person. If you take art critique personally, do not offer it up to the public, because invariably you are not going to like what you hear.
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:iconlinzer-torte:
linzer-torte Featured By Owner Jan 17, 2007
So you're telling me that even though you know nothing about me, you're not trying to understand my previous works, and disregarding pretty much my entire line of history, you can properly and accurately critique my complete concept on the piece, tell me what I think about life, and, ignoring the color schemes, tells me that it would look better otherwise?

Uh, yeah, pretty much.

Art should be able to stand on its own. You're not always going to be standing beside your painting, anxiously defending it against any viewer who dares to find fault with it.

Sometimes you will disagree with critique. That is okay. You are allowed to not like what people say about your precious creations. You are even allowed not to follow advice given to you about the execution thereof.

However, not liking a comment doesn't make that comment any less valid. And putting your art out in the public sphere--of a class critique, or a gallery showing, or even on the internet--is offering that art up for comment. If you don't want comment and critique, don't show your works to anyone but yourself.
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:icongearmond:
Gearmond Featured By Owner Jan 17, 2007
overdoing it in a critique to sound godly= bad.
disregarding concept=bad
(from what i've gathered) naruto in leather has a concept=wrong. sorry, but it's hard to concieve one after putting "naruto" in there.

we with art degrees (in the next few years if i'm lucky) shouldn't be pompous. YOU should be your own worst critic and no one else. and if all esle fails just say "its a statement against the esablishment/govt./society/the art world/ all of the above." of course... most art kiddos know that joke so... oh well.
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:iconkizziesama:
Kizziesama Featured By Owner Jan 17, 2007   Digital Artist
if they know the art terms, why is it a problem if they use it? and if it's a valid critique (not just saying it sucks, but what about it is off) then it's all fair game. if you just want cute comments, say so :)

and despite popular belief, not all people who are art students pull that shit around like it really means anything, however, if they do have valuable enough field experience it wouldn't hurt to take it into consideration for later :D
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:iconmitsusei:
mitsusei Featured By Owner Jan 17, 2007
:[
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:iconultranic-comics:
ultranic-comics Featured By Owner Jan 17, 2007
Do I need to be a world famous chief to know when something tastes like shit?

No, but it helps.
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:iconmitsusei:
mitsusei Featured By Owner Jan 17, 2007
But you DO need to know what the person's trying to do to help them improve.

P.s. Chef - not chief
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:iconultranic-comics:
ultranic-comics Featured By Owner Jan 17, 2007
ಠ_ಠ stupid spelling errors.

If the person is a better artist then you are, I think he’s entitled to critique your work.
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:iconbooshnig:
Booshnig Featured By Owner Jan 17, 2007
If you ever want to persue a career in art, you'll have to take all the critique that you can get. I wish I could get more critique, to be honest - especially from somebody who's already enrolled in an art university whereas I am not.
It doesn't matter how you "feel" about the critique or not, that's what the criticiser thinks, and might as well be what your client thinks too. Take it with a grain of salt and move on.
I'd say if you really want critique, DA isn't the place for you. DA tends to be bursting at the seams with "omg kawaii like ur special efefcts dodge filturs desu" and other pointless praising. I'd suggest conceptart.org if you're really looking for critique.
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:iconmitsusei:
mitsusei Featured By Owner Jan 17, 2007
:[

(missed my point)

I'm saying...

oh, forget it :[
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:iconbooshnig:
Booshnig Featured By Owner Jan 17, 2007
Someone using their authority in an art college to justify comparing how they did something to how you did something? That's how I deciphered it.
;\ ;/ :faint:
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:iconmitsusei:
mitsusei Featured By Owner Jan 17, 2007
:[ good job.
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:iconbooshnig:
Booshnig Featured By Owner Jan 17, 2007
:]
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:iconblack-allison:
Black-Allison Featured By Owner Jan 17, 2007
Cool, so when I get in to OCAD I can bitch about people freely?
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:iconmitsusei:
mitsusei Featured By Owner Jan 17, 2007
You get the license to, but knowing what you're talking about isn't exactly required :]
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:iconblack-allison:
Black-Allison Featured By Owner Jan 17, 2007
Golly Gosh! That sounds ever so neat!
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:icondogbert2k4:
Dogbert2k4 Featured By Owner Jan 17, 2007
Technically it was a thread for critique, and by saying you don't care if you get any basically demotes the whole purpose of the thread. There were other non-critique threads in the forum that you could have posted in as well. Also, you broke the rules by posting three thumbs horizontally instead of two thumbs vertically.
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:iconmitsusei:
mitsusei Featured By Owner Jan 17, 2007
>:[

Did i kill anyone?

And no, i didn't read. All i said was don't critique if you don't want to. I never said i don't want them
:[

God, you're making me reguritate everything I've said already.
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:icondogbert2k4:
Dogbert2k4 Featured By Owner Jan 17, 2007
Well excuuuuuuuuse me for not reading Every. Single. Post. that has been made in this thread. The thumbshare thread you complain of offered critique and nothing else. It was all about critique and you barged in saying "You don't have to critique if you don't want to. I'm just here to adverise my art" If you didn't care whether or not you got critique, why would you go into a critique thread with that sort of amiguity and then complain when the OP yells at you?
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:iconmitsusei:
mitsusei Featured By Owner Jan 17, 2007
You're telling me that the thumbwhore forum wasn't for art whorage?

I'm happy to have people take a look at my thumbnails. :[ Can't i be satisfied easily?
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:icondogbert2k4:
Dogbert2k4 Featured By Owner Jan 17, 2007
No, I'm saying (basically regurgitating what someone else already told you in that thread) that you have to follow the rule of each thread and by saying you don't want critique in a thread designed for CRITIQUE it demeans the purpose. If you want to advertise your art for the sole purpose of advertisement go to the proper thread or make your own.
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:iconmitsusei:
mitsusei Featured By Owner Jan 17, 2007
And i say it again, quote me where i said I didn't want critiques :]

I said he didn't HAVE to. don't confuse it with I don't WANT you to.
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:iconkatya-h:
katya-h Featured By Owner Jan 17, 2007  Professional General Artist
:lol: I can't tell if I agree with you or not. Um. I agree that an art degree in whatever doesn't make you the supreme god of art. And if you come from MY school, I'll be even less likely to trust your opinion. :bucktooth: And I also agree about actually having an interest in the art they are critiquing. And that art is not all about technical skills. But... all of it kinda mixes togerther.. and the execution of a piece does rely on the concept and the technical aspects working together.

And also.. a little secret... :ninja: you don't have to take critique... You can listen to it, and take from it what you will, and move on with your life. I mean... I'm an illustrator, and I go to a fine arts school. They really don't 'get' commercial or illustrative art, and so I just... take from it what I can and go on.

I honestly have mixed feelings about critique - I appreciate it and it has helped me improve, but I don't consider it the most sacred of gifts. What I consider to be much more important are the honest feelings and thoughts someone has when they look at my art. And if that means also pointing out flaws, ok. But also thoughts on concept and what interests you also.

By the way, my post is totally more important than yours because my school is far more expensive :|
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:iconmitsusei:
mitsusei Featured By Owner Jan 17, 2007
Joke's on you. I'm not going to an art school because I don't feel like changing my style completely just to suck up to some old people to get a passing grade :[

Good critiques helps. Most of the BS people call critiques on this sites is just a mask for saying your art sucks and here is why. And that is why I'm SOOOO much better than you are. By the way, did I tell you I have an art degree from college-r-us?
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:iconkatya-h:
katya-h Featured By Owner Jan 17, 2007  Professional General Artist
I was kidding... making fun of the college thing. :( Look amused, goddamn you!!

I agree with the second statement. A really well thought out response to art in general is very hard to find. Luckily I have a couple of watchers who graciously do this for me :)
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:iconmitsusei:
mitsusei Featured By Owner Jan 17, 2007
What I need is people to tell me what i don't know, and people who can tell me how to fix it instead of just fixing it.
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:iconkatya-h:
katya-h Featured By Owner Jan 17, 2007  Professional General Artist
Amen to "how to fix it instead of just FIX it" :salute:
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:iconmitsusei:
mitsusei Featured By Owner Jan 17, 2007
"Your drawing sux. you need to fix anatomy of your arms"

YESSIREE. I shall proceed to snapping my fingers and magically aqquiring ARM FIXING SKILLS. >:[

"Take life drawing classes. it will help"

WHAT THE HELL!? >:[ its like 50 bucks for two freakin' hours.
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:iconlyesmith:
Lyesmith Featured By Owner Jan 17, 2007
Iunno. Sheridan is a pretty topnotch place to get educated so I'd trust someone who got into the arts program and lasted for 4 years more than a person who doesn't have the same experience. :shrug:
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:iconmitsusei:
mitsusei Featured By Owner Jan 17, 2007
That's what they want you to think.
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:iconalmightydfa:
AlmightyDFA Featured By Owner Jan 17, 2007
I partly agree with both sides. Sure, an critique is nothing more than a subjective suggestion on what someone thinks would look better. Critique coming from both a 12 year old otaku girl and whatever awesome drawer/photographer/writer is just that, critique: an opinion.
Art education, while it doesn't give you the right to act all holier-than-thou, does give you the means to give better critique, based on some basic concepts most of us who haven't attended art school are aware of and that could greatly improve out work.

The lowdown... Don't ask for critique if you're not ready for anything.

I'm open to harsh critiques, if anyone's interested :strong:

After all, stuff like "really nice!", "great shot!" and ":+fav:", while very comforting to the artist, don't really help said artist improve at all. It's the harsh comments that make you see what you need to improve on, what to do, what to keep doing and what to stop doing.
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:iconmitsusei:
mitsusei Featured By Owner Jan 17, 2007
I agree that SOME things are universially acceptable. But trend is that the more "experienced" you are in something, the more stuck up one gets. It's like how a chef would be like, NOE. ONLY MISTER SPARKLEY SPARKELY FLOUR IS THE BEST. But that's just an opinion filled with hot, steamy certificated gas.

As for improvement, if you're not able to connect with the artist, you're not helping them. Sure, you probably can help them make it look "better" - but if you dont try to understand their concept and help them inprove the concept, the critiquer is really just sugarcoating some eye candy, right?

Art doesn't have to be pretty. We know that.
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:iconalmightydfa:
AlmightyDFA Featured By Owner Jan 17, 2007
Critique isn't supposed to help you improve on the concept, concept is something you should already have burned in to the back of your head before your even grab your camera/pencil.
If you're looking for concept improvement through critique, you're looking for the wrong thing in critique. You're basically asking the critiquer to think for you.

Art doesn't have to be preety. Art is an expression of human emotion, and human emotion isn't always pretty indeed.
That emotion you're expressing. THAT's you concept there, you can't just improve your emotions. You can, however, improve the way you express emotion through your art. And THAT's what critique is for.
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:iconmitsusei:
mitsusei Featured By Owner Jan 17, 2007
But, ah, if one doesn't understand what I'm putting out, how can one help me improve?

o.o

If I'm trying to express myself as some lonely, cold, in the dark angsty teen, you cant get a happy-go-lucky 8 year old with a lollipop (assuming he knows how to critique) to help me 'improve', right?
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:iconalmightydfa:
AlmightyDFA Featured By Owner Jan 17, 2007
Nope. But you don't start a topic to lash back at him for not getting what you tried to express.

8 year old kids are not that hard to ignore, are they? Just move on with your life and pay attention to the comments you think will help you improve.
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:iconmitsusei:
mitsusei Featured By Owner Jan 17, 2007
I'm complaining not only about that, but at the rest of the world who thinks that getting an education gives you the right to tell people they suck because they havent learned about that particular subject
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:iconkonijnemans:
konijnemans Featured By Owner Jan 17, 2007  Hobbyist Digital Artist
I'd like Jan Hoet to be on DA and to hand out critique... [link]
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:iconmitsusei:
mitsusei Featured By Owner Jan 17, 2007
I'd like...

i dont know.

a cup of ice cream right about now
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