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March 20, 2017
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Clients that want shit for FREE

:icon000fesbra000:
000Fesbra000 Featured By Owner Edited Mar 20, 2017  Professional Digital Artist
This is a recent note i got from a so called "client" that wanted me to work for him. I get several notes regarding this but I've chosen to make this one public cause it's related to one of the games I love the most. Baldur's Gate II... and all those related IP's really. So this boiled my blood. Ok, here it goes.


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CLIENT:

Hello,

my name is R**** K***** (more commonly known as "E***n") and I have a request for you.

Given the amount of your artworks focusing on fantasy (and note about IWD2), I assume you're also familiar with Baldurs Gate. I alone am a huge fan, frequent debater, head of the translation team and creator of mods. That last thing is the reason why I'm writing this message. I do not know how old are you, but if you played the original version BG2 is a good chance that name "Sheena, A Half Dragon Tale" gonna ring some bells.

It was really great mode, which allowed to have as a companion daughter of Lord Firkraag. Unfortunately, mode was never completely finished (no content in ToB) and is not compatible with EE. Well, at least not until today:
forums.beamdog.com/discussion/…

Mod was more than 7 years almost forgotten and since author ended all activity, also deleted from most websites. It was a really great mod, so I decided rebuild mode for EE and add missing content (and maybe some extra content).The technical aspect was not a problem (most things except the new content is already done) the problem is the artistic aspect.

Original BG operate with a much lower resolution and thus are also images at much lower resolution. Portraits in this mod has unfortunately even lower resolution than most of the old modes. Although I was able to partially restored and edit images, the result is not perfect (And the original images were not authorized by their authors, which is also a problem). I want to be faithful to the original mod, but I'm no artist. On the other hand, you're the author of few best portraits I've ever seen.

So I wanted to ask if you would be willing to do a new version of official portraits for this mod.
I do not think I'd be able to find someone better.


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ME:

I was actually playing Shadows of Amn with a portrait I made myself. Be more than happy to take part. Let me know.


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CLIENT:

I'm very glad to hear that.

To be honest, I was not sure if I should contact you.
You're undoubtedly very talented, no doubt about it, but I was a little concerned about the fact that the absolute majority of your images looks like from horror movies. But then I thought, "I need a portrait for half dragon no half pony". :-) (Smile)
So your style turned out to be an advantage.

P.S.
Apologize if my English sounds a little rusty.
I'm not a native speaker and my native language makes sentences in completely different way than English.
So some of the things that I say may sound a bit cumbersome.

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ME:

Ok.
So, let's talk business. When would you need this and how much will you be willing to pay for this.

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CLIENT:

Time is not a problem.
Anything between week and year.
There is no need to rush mod is still far from completion.
In addition, I am able to provide all the documents required for completion.

Regarding the price, I was kinda hoping that you may want to do it for free... :-) (Smile)

I'm not a profit-making organization.
I'm just fan which produces popular mods for players without expecting something in return.
But I guess I could arrange you a quite good advertising.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

ME:

Buddy... Read my bio. This is insulting.


(NOTE: my Bio contains a FAQ list that actually talks about doing art for free for games or projects that have a non profit approach... I'm very clear about that)

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CLIENT:

I have read your BIO but I do not understand...
What specific part was insulting?

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ME:

R****,
you have to understand something about video games and business... and life.
I'm a 28 year old man trying to make a living of illustration in Latinamerica, I live in another country (in Colombia) and rent an office... meaning, I spend money to work better. I don't live in Europe... where I can file for unemployment and get some money out of it. But in Latinamerica, where nobody gives a flying fuck about your life and welfare.
I've been working at this career for 5 f***ing years after studying industrial design in Chile for 5 n' a half other f***ing years. My parents never supported my career until lately and I've had to power through every kind of asshole telling me what should I actually do with my f***ing existence.
And after all that time on perfecting myself and trying to earn enough money through my skills in order to keep on perfecting myself forever on, and be able in the future to afford a house for my family, a fancy engagement ring for my future wife plus a wedding, three kids I wanna have (that I'll have to most likely pay for their education), be able to live a happy life and f***ing die without any debts. Still then after all that, I get a note from some dude out there that wants me to work, spend my time and skills... in the office I am paying! for a free portrait that you're gonna use in some project that is actually related to one of the greatest rpg games of all time?

GIVE ME A F***ING BREAK DUDE.

Why don't you spend some money if you think that project is so important. Cause unless you're a 14 year old kid here, you're really acting like things should be given to you no effort whatsoever, no matter what.
Everyone here is trying to make a living, and there is NO SUCH THING as a non profit making organization towards video games cause that is BULLSHIT. You know why? Cause you need to feed yourself at some time, you need to pay your rent, you need to save money in case some asshole in the street has the nerve to stab you in the gut and steal your money. So unless you're getting actual monetary donations in a very legal way, you're just a dude in a basement that happens to like a game too much and doesn't wanna spend a cent on it. And if I'm completely mistaken and you actually get donations, then why shouldn't I... the motherf***er that's doing the art you need, get some monetary payment for it.
Do you spend in entertainment? Do you have a console? Buy games in Steam? Go to the club on the weekends and spend money in a couple of beers? Well since that is entertaining and this is also that, plus work! Why the heck shouldn't you spend money on it.

And you ask me why, having the nerve to ask me to do stuff fro free is insulting. Why don't you come and make me a webpage man. I'll talk wonders about you!

LOL

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The End
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Devious Comments

:iconkaguyatan:
KaguyaTan Featured By Owner Apr 11, 2017
Nah, you sound like a dick. :>
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:iconsachi-pon:
Sachi-pon Featured By Owner Mar 31, 2017  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
holy crap

this guy doesn't look bad here. YOU do. the way you responded was rude and immature. the person who sent you the note, on the other hand, was kind and polite. just because you are refusing to give him free art doesn't give you the right to make such an over-the-top rant about it. yes it's annoying for that guy to send you a note asking for free art, but all you had to do was say "i appreciate the fact that you like my art but i don't have time to do work for free, because i need to devote my time to paid work only. please look at my page to see my policy on free requests." your rambling on about your life story and how you're such a sad struggling artist was not necessary. next time something like this happens, think of a more polite way to respond.
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:iconluaprata91:
Luaprata91 Featured By Owner Apr 11, 2017  Professional Digital Artist
when you start paying your own bills you will understand him. 
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:iconfuncrank:
Funcrank Featured By Owner Mar 31, 2017
[quote] Everyone here is trying to make a living, and there is NO SUCH THING as a non profit making organization towards video games cause that is BULLSHIT.  [/quote]

If only there was an example of someone doing something for free for some sort of community, like a mod or something. I guess you're right exploding into his face like that.

That being said I can understand your frustration, but it's childish to react like that. He is doing something for free (a mod for a game) and putting his time and effort into it, so yeah people do stuff for free. It was sloppy of him not reading your FAQ thoroughly but you're still blowing this way out of proportion. Again, I do understand where the frustration is coming from, but it's not like he is making something he's gonna sell and then expect someone else to work for free to help his project.
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:iconinkybrain:
InkyBrain Featured By Owner Mar 29, 2017  Professional General Artist
Goddamn, kudos to you for standing up for your work AND your worth. The "one art please" people astound me, as if art does not merit the same level of time and effort required to do most any career. That being said, I think these kinds of people also assume that they can get anything for free if they know somebody, and I assume they must tell themselves "it doesn't hurt to ask," but really, it does. It's insulting, just as you explained. Ugh...garbage. 
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:iconsomething5059:
something5059 Featured By Owner Mar 26, 2017
Man I'd be mad as well; you worked too hard for a random ******* to come along and ask you do work for them for free.
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:icontrezce:
Trezce Featured By Owner Edited Mar 26, 2017
jajajaja, no entiendo como el compadre pensó que le ibas a decir que si en primer lugar, en que mundo vivirá que todo es gratis, el mundo Bilz y Pap?
Porque hasta las Bilz y Pap se pagan XD 
Me pregunto a cuantos les habrá dicho lo mismo, porque estoy mas que segura que no eres ni el primero ni el único, pero estoy segura que ninguno le dijo que si :XD:
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:iconcethlenn:
Cethlenn Featured By Owner Mar 25, 2017  Hobbyist Digital Artist
It looked dodgy from the beginning to be honest. People who present themselves like this tend to do one of two things: Want free shit or run when you give them a quote.

Or at least that's my experience.
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:iconbeholdentolove:
Beholdentolove Featured By Owner Edited Mar 24, 2017  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Nope, your time is valuable and you do art for a living. Asking you to work for free is insulting, more so since you don't have any sort of relationship with this person at all. I do free stuff for family and very close friends only. Art is your business, your goods, and goods have to be paid for upfront. I hear the whole "trade for promotion" a lot you have to be very careful with that. Not sure how to take his underhanded slight about the type of work you do either. :-/
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:iconsaevanaral:
Saevanaral Featured By Owner Mar 24, 2017  Hobbyist Digital Artist
I've had people interested in commissions, but as soon as price is mentioned, they disappear. I have very few people actually come through with payment. It does suck, and it is frustrating. :/ Sorry, dude. 
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:iconlockphase:
lockphase Featured By Owner Mar 23, 2017  Professional Digital Artist
Interesting read, thanks for the heads up ! Cheers ! :)
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:iconeoinfalcon:
Eoinfalcon Featured By Owner Mar 22, 2017  Student Digital Artist
Well spoke
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:iconjohnkillinger:
JohnKillinger Featured By Owner Mar 22, 2017  Professional General Artist
reminds me of this Fucking bee 01 by alexiuss
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:iconnervene:
nervene Featured By Owner Mar 22, 2017
Eh, it happens. I can understand if your reply was a form of catharsis to vent out general frustrations with not just him but everyone else who has made these kinds of requests, but really I think it's best to just close the notes and move on than to let it eat at you. Mod teams and indie startups do tend to work without pay (the latter often operating on having company stake since there is no capital to work with to begin, the former often just being done for the love of their game), the main the point of fault he had was to not check your FAQ. He should have been more thorough before making such a request, and, failing, that, at least made it more clear from the beginning that it was unpaid.

I get these requests from time to time even though I'm largely unknown, in my opinion it's best to just say 'Sorry, I don't work for free' and let it go. None have ever taken it wrongly, and scolding them excessively about it isn't really going to solve anything but make them feel bad about something they meant no harm with. They aren't really trying to take advantage of you, at least the ones that have contacted me  -  they're just people who want to make the games they like playing better and are trying to find others who want to help.

It's not my intent to police how you 'should' feel, but I think you are doing more harm to yourself than any harm he did to you when you get this absorbed in retaliating at him. Everyone has their backgrounds and their hardships, you have ones that he likely doesn't and can't understand, and he could have some you can't, too. We'll never truly know what being anyone but ourselves is like. From what I can see, nobody meant to spit on you and the efforts and accomplishments you've made against the odds to get where you are today.

Just my :twocents:
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:iconcanttel:
canttel Featured By Owner Mar 21, 2017  Hobbyist Digital Artist
i dont mind doing free stuff for friends and family. but since its free id have to take my own spin on it and chose whether ill let it look like shit or not.
but free stuff for strangers? nigga wat?
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:iconrenamonmega:
RenamonMega Featured By Owner Mar 21, 2017  Hobbyist Artist
Whoa that is indeed insulting an artist in everyway when you ask them to do a freebie, no joke I was face palming so hard when he said that you should do it for free like this isn't a fucking charity you draw for payment and nothing more.

That Client is a grade A dumbass if he's not paying money for professional work
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:iconagenthisui:
AgentHisui Featured By Owner Mar 21, 2017  Hobbyist
I´m entertained. <3
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:iconanisa-mazaki:
Anisa-Mazaki Featured By Owner Mar 21, 2017  Professional Digital Artist
XD I can totally relate to this to the T.
I often get asked to do free art alot, cuz of my Manga works, and as much as I would want to trip off on them the same way like this, I usually just hold it in and just say No or I'm busy or booked doing other things at the moment. (Cuz the only people who automatically would get free work from me, are my close friends and my fans. Anybody eles is usually a big no.) 

Now, if they come back with a reply like "lot of other people do Free Art" bla bla bla, bla bla bla, tttthhhhheeennnn I'll trip off on them like this. 
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:iconjuliusborisov:
JuliusBorisov Featured By Owner Mar 21, 2017
Hi there! A Beamdog representative here. We're sorry if certain users on our forum have violated your rights on artwork. We've recieved a complaint from an artist and will address the issue.

In the same time, I would like to note that generally users on our forum respect artists and try to credit them and get a permission when needed. There're certain cases when users don't do that and it obvioulsy should be (and is being) dealt with.

As for this particular case, Hai-Etlik is right, in my opinion.
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:icon000fesbra000:
000Fesbra000 Featured By Owner Mar 21, 2017  Professional Digital Artist
Thank you for the attention, very appreciated. But as the police department says the same about their violent abusive police officers "generally they respect people", they should also get rid off their rotten apples cause they spoil the entire barril, not the way around.

Appreciate your opinion but as I responded to Hai-Etlik he's wrong... in my opinion.

thanks again.
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:iconanvonavi:
Anvonavi Featured By Owner Mar 21, 2017  Professional Traditional Artist
Oh yeaah:) Old story:)
There was some guy, who wanted to honour me by letting me paint his naked portrait. Just because he is young and sporty. He said he wasn't meant to pay for this, he thought of it as a quid pro quo favour. He lets me to have some inspiration from his sporty naked body. Although the internet is full of naked bodies of any kind.

A FAVOUR! So, by painting your portrait for free, it's YOU doing ME a favour? Seriously?
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:iconmasterplanner:
MasterPlanner Featured By Owner Mar 23, 2017  Professional Artisan Crafter
Did he look like a Greek god?
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:iconanvonavi:
Anvonavi Featured By Owner Mar 23, 2017  Professional Traditional Artist
He obviously think he did, but I didn't check:)
Anyway, if I want to paint a Greek god, what stops me from painting Brad Pitt?:)
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:iconmasterplanner:
MasterPlanner Featured By Owner Mar 24, 2017  Professional Artisan Crafter
:lol:
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:iconghostofdestruction:
ghostofdestruction Featured By Owner Mar 21, 2017   Digital Artist
also
"profit sharing" i've never seen them come to something finished and they change things all the time
"contests" make 40 people work for you and pay one (or none)
" test work" you should be able to view by my already existing work if i'm fit for the job 
-_-
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:iconthelasthokuten:
TheLastHokuten Featured By Owner Edited Mar 20, 2017  Hobbyist Digital Artist
The guy knew what he was doing if he said he read your bio. Either that or he was lying and operating based on incorrect preconceptions. Based on the evidence he was firmly in the wrong.

That said, your response was shockingly immature and rude for someone who purports to be a professional, not to mention you're violating this person's privacy by airing out a conversation held in confidence. Again, you're not wrong for slamming the door on him, but there are classier ways to explain to people why their behavior is improper.

Your art is great, and that's really disappointing because I would never want to buy a product from a professional with your kind of conduct.
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:iconantarasis:
Antarasis Featured By Owner Mar 22, 2017  Student Digital Artist
I think the rather immature one was the "client" honestly. And a professional request will get a professional response.
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:icon000fesbra000:
000Fesbra000 Featured By Owner Mar 21, 2017  Professional Digital Artist
sure man, you're entitled to your own thinking
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:icondoctorsiggy:
DoctorSiggy Featured By Owner Mar 20, 2017  Professional Digital Artist
LMAOOO WHAT A DOUCHE.
I think I would shit flames if I thought I was getting a legitimate job-offer and having it end up being a bunch of bull.

Of course us artists don't need money for work we put hours on end into. That's just silly! :lol:
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:iconjettrainfan:
Jettrainfan Featured By Owner Mar 20, 2017  Hobbyist Writer
Client: "Regarding the price, I was kinda hoping that you may want to do it for free... :) "

NOW YOU FUCKED UP! :XD:
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:iconimaginationdiva:
ImaginationDiva Featured By Owner Mar 20, 2017  Hobbyist General Artist
This world is so full of fucking free-loaders, my god. Where are they coming from!? 
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:iconemperorseverne:
EmperorSeverne Featured By Owner Mar 20, 2017  Hobbyist General Artist
Parents with no actual parenting skills
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:iconthatkidwiththerabbit:
ThatKidWithTheRabbit Featured By Owner Mar 20, 2017  Hobbyist Writer
You mean parenting is more than just buying your kids shit?! :ohnoes:
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:iconemperorseverne:
EmperorSeverne Featured By Owner Mar 21, 2017  Hobbyist General Artist
Yep
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:iconcommandereve:
CommanderEVE Featured By Owner Mar 20, 2017  Hobbyist General Artist
I feel your pain, I have had a lot of shit like this myself. I just say to them, "Do I look like a fucking bank?" 
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:iconronindevamasart:
RoninDeVamasArt Featured By Owner Mar 20, 2017  Hobbyist General Artist
I feel like people believe only those with lots of money can afford to be artists, because art is not "work".

To hell with that assumption!
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:icon000fesbra000:
000Fesbra000 Featured By Owner Mar 20, 2017  Professional Digital Artist
No, I don't think that actually sinks in. Offending people in that manner would most likely put them against you. Educating others is never a waste of time. Specially when you get to make 'em feel bad about themselves by putting them in your shoes.
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:iconemperorseverne:
EmperorSeverne Featured By Owner Mar 24, 2017  Hobbyist General Artist
You shouldn't have to try and educate them. They should have the common sense to look for your guidelines, which are on your profile page in a very obvious spot for this exact reason (or they should ask you up front what your guidelines are if they can't find them). The fact they can't do this by itself shows that any attempt to educate them would be futile, which their habit of getting offended regardless of how you express your response reflects
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:iconjuliabohemian:
Juliabohemian Featured By Owner Mar 20, 2017  Professional General Artist
I'm sure this happens a lot. And it's definitely insulting. 
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:iconmasterplanner:
MasterPlanner Featured By Owner Edited Mar 20, 2017  Professional Artisan Crafter
This is a common problem for artists/designers/creative types, honestly. There's a certain account on Twitter that compiles other examples of this behavior but I couldn't post the link because dA thought it was spam.
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:iconsevilai:
Sevilai Featured By Owner Mar 20, 2017  Professional General Artist
I love that they also say they "guess" they can work out advertising you. They GUESS. You know, they aren't going to pay you regardless but they might consider giving you exposure too lmao
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:iconasp-assassin:
Asp-Assassin Featured By Owner Mar 20, 2017  Hobbyist Digital Artist
"Why don't you make me a webpage, if you're paying me in exposure" is the best response ever!
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:iconmayeru:
Mayeru Featured By Owner Mar 20, 2017  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Creo que el estuvo equivocado en no poner las cosas claras desde el principio, si es un proyecto fan debio aclarar que los trabajos eran gratis, y a demas redactar la nota dependiendo de tus especificaciones para ese estilo de trabajos aclarado en tus FAQs.

Sin embargo tampoco creo que era algo por lo cual molestarse tanto. Simplemente era cuestion de redigirlo a las FAQs para que redactara bien su peticion o simplemente negar la peticion. Escribir dos parrafos explicandole el porque todo trabajo demanda una recompeza (a menos que te de la gana de hacerlo gratis ) es perder el tiempo.
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:icon000fesbra000:
000Fesbra000 Featured By Owner Mar 20, 2017  Professional Digital Artist
Yo creo que sí es algo por lo que molestarse. De hecho creo que es irresponsable que no nos molestemos por esto.
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:iconmayeru:
Mayeru Featured By Owner Mar 20, 2017  Hobbyist Digital Artist
hmmm no lo se, quizas es porque estoy acostumbrado a ver muchos proyectos de software open source que en realidad veo normal el hecho que las personas hagan las cosas solo por el amor de hacerlo y no por buscar una recompenza (osea, la recompenza al final seria que lo que sea que esten creando exista, se le de uso o sea reconocido de alguna forma) pero eso es en el caso de la programacion, porque los programadores no la tienen tan duro como los artistas a la hora de encontrar trabajo y por eso entiendo que te molestes que te pidan hacer cosas a lo gratis, sin embargo, recuerda que el tipo penso que tu eras fanatico de ese juego y pues los fanaticos generalmente hacen los artes por el simple hecho de que les gusta, sin embargo, de nuevo, estuvo mal de su parte no aclararlo desde el principio, porque el comenzo suponiendo que era obvio que lo ibas a hacer gratis, eso estuvo mal.

PD: perdona la falta de acentos, mi teclado esta en ingles y es un dolor poner cada acento.
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:icon000fesbra000:
000Fesbra000 Featured By Owner Mar 21, 2017  Professional Digital Artist
sí soy un fan. Pero eso no quita que tenga que vivir.
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:iconmayeru:
Mayeru Featured By Owner Mar 21, 2017  Hobbyist Digital Artist
si, ehmm, respondi a otra persona sin querer pensando que eras tu (suele pasar.. en realidad no, solo a mi, en fin), basicamente era algo como: yo apoyo tu posicion de que los artistas deben cobrar por su arte, especialmente los profesionales como tu, pero no considero que este mal si hay quienes prefieren hacerlo por gusto y no cobrar (ya eso queda de parte del artista el motivo por el cual lo hace).
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:icondeviant-garde:
deviant-garde Featured By Owner Mar 20, 2017
No solo a los programadores no les cuesta tanto buscar trabajo sino que las programas son herramientas y todos que trabajan en mejorarlas benefician al fin. Uno típicamente hace una herramienta para su mismo o dirigir un proyecto open source que no puede crear solo y incluso programadores profesionales de organizaciones que usan tal programa para sus proyectos le contribuyen algo porque hay un beneficio mutuo para todos.

Al tratarse del arte, el beneficio solamente es ese de la persona que usa tus obras y rara vez resulta en una colaboración o situación mutuamente benificial. Le hiciste algo gratis por lo que te podría haber pagado cuando la gente ya no toma en serio el valor de arte y eso es todo. De verdad sí hay arte open source, como temas de íconos usados en programas de Linux, pero esa es una situación muy especializada en la que sí hay un beneficio para todos (podemos hacer y aprovechar programas que usan esos íconos y esos programas pueden desarrollarse más fácilmente).
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