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I would ask all of you for suggestions regarding how to avoid this, in the future.   I think I need a bit of enlightenment would any of you have thoughts to share?


Could be the stars. I had a bad day.

  Short version of a long story:   A museum has been showing my art. When I stopped by unannounced,  I  found my art ill handled.  (how?)   I found a fool that told me he ran the place and I complained.  He became insulting and told me to get out and take my ugly art. I said, " OK; I will go and take my art with me."  I carried 1 sculpture out and returned for the other 6.   %$#$^ jerk told me my art was his and I could not have it until I proved in a court of law that they had not payed for it.  They had not.  I told him he could not stop me from taking my art.  He blocked one of the gallery doors with himself.  Then he called the police as I looked at him  and claimed I had assaulted him.  As he waited for the police he dared me to pass him  .... threatened me, attempting to insult me into touching him as the police were on the way.  As he blocked that one door I went into the other rooms and took all my other art to my van.  He insulted me the entire time but remained in front of that same door.   Now, only one sculpture remained a small bronze in the gallery behind his body.  I told him to move or I would make him move.  By now I was quite angry.  He told me he had 4 workmen there to harm me if he told them too, but I had seen them go out of the building as soon as he called the police and the yelling began.   The police had not arrived as of yet.    He was calling them again.  As fool stepped away from the door to get cell reception, I went into the gallery and took  my art.   I left the building before the cops arrived.   I did get my sculpture back.
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:iconterra-dea:
Terra-dea Featured By Owner Jul 10, 2009
Sadly there are some very ignorant and selfish people out there who will use anyone to get what they want. They will eventually get what’s coming as the only people left around them are of the same ilk. Cheers :)
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:iconfireboar:
FireBoar Featured By Owner Jul 10, 2009  Professional Traditional Artist
Yes i know them my self. They are why I copyright my art.
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:iconiwritebecauseuwrong:
iwritebecauseuwrong Featured By Owner Jun 23, 2009
does he own the place or just run it?
if it was anywhere near where i live i'd figure out something nice to do about it.

you should post up the address, and share it with other people, and swamp them with letters from angry artists. i would write in if you did, and some other bama artists would as well after learning the story.
it'd be cool if you could get some awareness in your community/local scene about it. in birmingham if a gallery did something like that the scene is entertwined enough to where they would surely be shunned and ill-reputed, since all the galleries around here are small and connected besides the b'ham museum of course. idk how it is in your city though.

i want to complain to them for you.
plus, art incident aside, i LOATHE cop callers who think police are their personal bodyguards.
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:iconfireboar:
FireBoar Featured By Owner Jun 24, 2009  Professional Traditional Artist
I met dom when I was in art school I was exhibiting in a space he was to have next. We had been friends foe long good years. He became the president of the: Casa Italia's Museums .
Guided tour of the Italian American Veterans Museum, the Vatican exhibit, the Scalabrinian Museum, the Italians in Chicago Exhibit, which IAET helped fund, the Art Gallery, the Sicilian Museum, the Florence Roselli Library, the Hall of Fame, the Chapel, etc Italian luncheon at 1:00 pm in the Banquet Center. $15 per person. Tour will follow luncheon. RSVP required by May 14. For details call Casa Italia 708-345-5933 3800 Division St. Stone Park. dom is now a past president but the library guy still. The cop caller appears to be the buildings supper /grounds keeper.

I like what you type I would thing i should do that but I do not think I will. I have a wish to do a full sized sculpture and i do not have the time to do both. But I may not have the model I was to work with and if that happens I have paintings I would much rather do. I applaud you spunk and am glad you chose to be my pen pal. Oh! the most important thing to me is that I have a way to-protect my self in the future. My art helped build 2 museums and this is the second time they attempted to steal my art and not pay me.
As for the cops that was wired I get it as if he was planing all that and then wonder why. ?? I was the goose laying golden eggs for them and willing to stay that way if I got paid also!
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:iconsoxrule:
soxrule Featured By Owner Jun 19, 2009
You gotta get everything in writting man!! people suck (in general) and will try to rip you off i fthey can. I know its shitty but being self imployed I learned the hard way you hvae to get everything in writting!! And always wait for the cops and be sure you have proof of ownership ( I always hide letters in a drawing i.e kids names bithdays crap like that so i can prov its my artwork. good luck in the future man and remember GET IN WRITTING!!!!!
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:iconfireboar:
FireBoar Featured By Owner Jun 19, 2009  Professional Traditional Artist
You are correct a clear contract is a must and I had one but I do not know where a copy is. Also I had been friend with that guy for 30 years so I trusted him.
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:iconsoxrule:
soxrule Featured By Owner Jun 19, 2009
friends are the worst people to do business with! sad but true!! I got screwed by a friend of 20 yrs!!Partly due to the fcat i didn't get anything in writting!!
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:iconfireboar:
FireBoar Featured By Owner Jun 20, 2009  Professional Traditional Artist
Ya; and I he would have had my art displayed and tagged I would have left it with him at that i almost did leave it,
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:iconbitchbrain:
bitchbrain Featured By Owner Jun 12, 2009  Professional General Artist
O my goodness... T_T How deplorable!
I wish you all the best in handling this. I wish I could do more; but I guess I could only give my moral support.
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:iconbitchbrain:
bitchbrain Featured By Owner Jun 15, 2009  Professional General Artist
:icongreatjobplz:
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:iconfireboar:
FireBoar Featured By Owner Jun 12, 2009  Professional Traditional Artist
Dear bitchbrain, thank you so much for the you kind words I appreciate them.
:iconnemoteplz: :iconnemoteplz: :iconnemoteplz:

:iconanuranjanbhatia:
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:iconbeaunestor:
BeauNestor Featured By Owner Jun 10, 2009  Professional Photographer
I will note you separately, but yes, it is important to have everything documented. OJ took back his 'art' and went to the pokey for it... so doing it the right way is essential.

The contract with a Gallery/Museum/Dealer - should come from them, and be modified by you, before signing it.

The main elements are:
The description of the goods.
The care, insurance and handling of your works.
The duration of the exhibition.
The commission upon sale.
When the commission is payable.
The cost of exhibiting (if any).
The manner and date that unsold works are to be collected.

In theory - if you remove works before the end date, you may be required to pay a commission, because you have stopped the Gallery from the opportunity to make commission from the public (if that was agreed).

There is never a point in an abusive situation - better to walk away, and come back with a cop or a lawyer.

If you were able to remove works during exhibition time, then it could also be said that the gallery owner was not able to adequately protect them from theft.

Way too many gray areas that definitely need a contract in place.

Beau
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:iconfireboar:
FireBoar Featured By Owner Jun 10, 2009  Professional Traditional Artist
Thank you for your incite. I do think that OJ was a part of that drama. If OJ could not get his stuff back perhaps they could keep mine in the same way. The past president did say " I am handling this badly" With that I wonder what plan they did have. The building was closed only open for workmen. They were repairing the ceiling in one of the rooms my art was in.
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:iconmadlynx:
madlynx Featured By Owner Jun 10, 2009   Photographer
Roberto, dont let you intimidated by a Jack-Ass that dont know noting of ART and also want to rob you!!

Hope you have a Wonderful Day :peace:&:love: :flagcanada:
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:iconfireboar:
FireBoar Featured By Owner Jun 10, 2009  Professional Traditional Artist
thanks
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:icontomkilbane:
TomKilbane Featured By Owner Jun 10, 2009  Professional Traditional Artist
I think I would have done the same thing my friend, or wait for the police and file a theft charge to the idiot and have him produce proff of sale! You should always get some kind of something in writing, but since you were out of town the art in question was actually stolen from you. If possesion is 99% of the law and you have it then he needs to prove he bought it. Next time kick him in the nutts!!!!!!!!!!
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:iconfireboar:
FireBoar Featured By Owner Jun 10, 2009  Professional Traditional Artist
I like the kick him part I did want to do that most of all. But the bad part for me is they want to have my art but they do not think I deserve to be paid for it.
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:iconsuka:
suka Featured By Owner Jun 10, 2009
Wow, they should really by paying for art and not using it for free. Artists don't even (and shouldn't) even work for free. He should be charged with theft. :/
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:iconfireboar:
FireBoar Featured By Owner Jun 10, 2009  Professional Traditional Artist
Well; I thought that having my art in a museum with large numbers of people seeing it as qualified buyers ... You know the rest and that is the way they can pull this ripoff off i.e. exploiting naivety and passion. I would change one thing in art school required classes in the small business of art as a profession. Thank you for you thoughts.
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:icontomkilbane:
TomKilbane Featured By Owner Jun 10, 2009  Professional Traditional Artist
that is the bad part for sure!!!! you did the right thing .
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:iconfireboar:
FireBoar Featured By Owner Jun 10, 2009  Professional Traditional Artist
Thanks ;=)
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:iconwhistfilledsmiles:
whistfilledsmiles Featured By Owner Jun 9, 2009
i agree with *Intergrativeone you need a written contract stating how the art is to be used and all conditions, you or your agent should also be there for the set up and if possible stipulate that this is not to be changed without your consultation. Also you need to have the gallery owners details on record incase of any problems and if people are going to act like that...carry a tape recorder around with you...it might save a lot of trouble and confusion...i would also suggest having a record of your art A. as you make it and B. once it is finished, take pictures at least and date and sign them.
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:iconfireboar:
FireBoar Featured By Owner Jun 9, 2009  Professional Traditional Artist
Thank you; I will do the tape recorder what a wonderfully idea. I had not thought of that. I have an app for that in my iPhone I could have merely turned the app on but I never thought of it. Could you clarify for me what you are saying to me in this quote? "Also you need to have the gallery owners details on record " I am confused.
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:iconwhistfilledsmiles:
whistfilledsmiles Featured By Owner Jun 9, 2009
as in, whenever your work is on exhibition in a gallery get the name, phone number, address/postal address of the gallery owner/currator so you can deal directly with them instead of "a fool that told me he ran the place"
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:iconfireboar:
FireBoar Featured By Owner Jun 10, 2009  Professional Traditional Artist
That is also good thinking I give them all mine I will ask for there also in the contract. thank you I should have thought of that.
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:iconwhistfilledsmiles:
whistfilledsmiles Featured By Owner Jun 10, 2009
no worries :D
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:iconfireboar:
FireBoar Featured By Owner Jun 10, 2009  Professional Traditional Artist
I like that you think of things that I do not I need to learn what you know.
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:iconwhistfilledsmiles:
whistfilledsmiles Featured By Owner Jun 10, 2009
haha...all you need to know is that im incredible and know everything thats worth knowing ;)
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:iconfireboar:
FireBoar Featured By Owner Jun 10, 2009  Professional Traditional Artist
Well Yes as I do I mearley think of it after you do
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(1 Reply)
:iconintergrativeone:
Intergrativeone Featured By Owner Jun 9, 2009  Professional General Artist
In the first place being a professional and committed artist of your stature you should have an iron clad written agreement/contract dictating what is allowed and what is not allowed to do with your art. Second, you should have called the police on this guy, not the other way around. Beau and I own a gallery and if someone was not happy with how we were handling their art, definitely remove it from the gallery. Not knowing what deals you made with this person initially makes it difficult to know what he thinks are his rights. Was money ever exchanged? Was there a written agreement? Mainly I do not like the fact that there was physical or verbal abuse going on. Call your attorney.
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:iconintergrativeone:
Intergrativeone Featured By Owner Jun 10, 2009  Professional General Artist
let me check with Beau and see what we have on file.
~G
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:iconfireboar:
FireBoar Featured By Owner Jun 9, 2009  Professional Traditional Artist
I had loaned them 3 sculptures for an exhibition in Feb. I was in the Catskills of N.Y. at the time that exhibition was to come down. I asked Peg to get my art for me from the exhibit. She arrived late and my art was gone.  After a time I found Dom had taken my art to the Villa and placed it in the library with out saying any thing to me. I assumed that Dom knowing I was out of town was doing me a favor.  I had sent out an email telling all I would be away 10 days.  Dom wanted to exhibit the art with the other 4 sculptures at a event to be announced.  He told me the library had grown, with new books, new shelves; more space I assumed.
All the other art was to be in the Italian Culture museum they were to have my name, contact info, and a discrete for sail on them. Their had been a wit the Priest and other staff that are not at that Non-Profit any longer. I see no value in a war with that organization there past President Dom or the caretaker ... I have a offer for a new dealer now and prefer to move on. Would you have a contract I could look and and perhaps use?
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:iconintergrativeone:
Intergrativeone Featured By Owner Jun 10, 2009  Professional General Artist
let me check with Beau and see what we have on file.
~G
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:iconfireboar:
FireBoar Featured By Owner Jun 10, 2009  Professional Traditional Artist
That would be wonderful :hug: :sun:
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