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Stan 'n Sue comparison

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With Stan and Sue now overhauled, I decided it was time to dust off the idea of comparing T. rex specimens. Eventually I'll update all of them (and add some new ones in), but for the next month or two this will have to suffice. Thanks to better scaling I can corroborate the femoral length of both specimens as published in Hutchinson et al's 2011 paper on computational analysis of tyrannosaur limb and body dimensions, as well as the overall length of FMNH PR2081 (Sue).

On the other hand I am unable to replicate the length estimate they provide for BHI 3033 (Stan). Stan's skeletal, as restored here, has a length of 11.28 meters, half a meter shorter than the 11.78 of the scanned mount. The discrepancy seems to stem from how long the reconstructed distal caudals are in the mount, as well as some very odd spacing in the scan (i.e. the mount) between the neck and skull. Otherwise the individual elements match up quite well between the scan and my reconstruction (which is good, because scan data rarely suffers from scaling errors).
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Paleonerd01's avatar
What length have you restored FMNH PR 2081’s skull here? I know restorations of the uncrushed skull vary from 144 to 152 cm. 
jouletrix's avatar
is stan a sub adult? just curious
Metal-Lark's avatar
I've seen comparisons of the two skulls. Do you know why Stan appears to have longer teeth than Sue?
DrScottHartman's avatar
You mean the cast? The Stan cast has many of the teeth slipped out of the socket with large amounts of the root exposed, making the teeth look bigger than they really are.
Metal-Lark's avatar
oh okay! that's what i was meaning, i've seen side by sides and Stan's teeth looked so gigantic compared to Sue's

thank you for explaining
Asuma17's avatar
Mmm I don't know I starting to sense a misconcept about Stan's height.
kirkseven's avatar
Stan is 3.3-3.4 meters tall at the hips on the image.
Asuma17's avatar
Stan is still taller from what I've looked at.  If somebody were to remeasure all the T.rex skeletons then you'll see whole a different ball game.
kirkseven's avatar
on this image Sue is slightly taller than Stan. Scott measured the individual bones so we can be sure its right.
Asuma17's avatar
Well when I go to Black Hills and I measure the original Stan skeleton along the Sue and the 18 yr old Thomas...we'll surely see.
kirkseven's avatar
your going to measure the mounts?
Asuma17's avatar
I'm going by the measurements without the mounts. I did a measurement of Fran the Acrocanthosaurus awhile back and it stands at least over 4ft even with the spine. However the Acrocanthosaurus from the Texas Museum approximately stands around over 8.
kirkseven's avatar
were are your measurements coming from?

Don`t trust the museums size figures, unless you have no other choice.
Museums have a bad habit of lying..
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Sekley's avatar
What he's saying is not to trust mounts. Scott Hartman and other paleontologists stress that most mounts aren't accurate or even articulated true to the anatomy. Like you'll find Camptosaurus with a head too small, Tyrannosaurus with oversized sacrum, etc. He even mentioned less than 5% of mounts get the arms and legs properly put together.
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Franoys's avatar
Hi Scott, I've measured your Stan both in photoshop and in GIMP and it resulted in a 11.3 meters animal. Why do you have it at 10.9 in the image? Is it a mistake? 
kirkseven's avatar
it was a typo, the actual lenght is 11.28 meters
theropod1's avatar
How come the description sais it’s 11.28m long, while on the image itself it reads "10.9m" for stan?
It seems that the measurement given in the description is the correct one, as that corresponds closely to the what can be measured in the comparison (and I think my measurement is pretty accurate, using the same technique I’m getting a correct 12.3m length for sue, measured along the vertebral collumn, and I also got a correct femur length for stan).

Someone is referring to it further down this page, but I don’t speak Spanish and google translate didn’t give me any answers either.
DrScottHartman's avatar
Oh jeez. Sorry, I think 10.9 was the old text (before I updated it). Stan is about a meter shorter than Sue, as you've measured yourself.
theropod1's avatar
Thanks for the clarification :)
Archanubis's avatar
So, is Sue bigger than Stan due to being different genders, or just because Sue is an older T. rex?  I've heard both explanations for Sue's larger size.
DrScottHartman's avatar
Sue is older - quite literally the oldest T. rex known (~29 years at time of death). Whether they were different genders, and if so whether that would matter for their relative size isn't known at this time, despite lots of claims to the contrary on the interwebs.
Archanubis's avatar
Also didn't realize Sue has part of her neck missing.
DrScottHartman's avatar
Yeah - given the continuity of it I think that was probably the part that was exposed and eroding out of the hill when Sue Hendricks found it.
danilodino's avatar
ScottHartman   Dudas Tengo Unas. ¿Cuánto mide el cráneo del T-rex "Stan"? Y la Imagen Estima El Largo Stan en 10,9 Metros y en LA DESCRIPCION 11,28 metros. 
                          Para aclarar mis dudas about Stan
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