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Tyrannosaurus rex latest concept

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By damir-g-martin   |   
© 2017 - 2020 damir-g-martin
So I made another Tyrannosaurus rex concept..
I was inspired by Christopher Srnka post over at facebook (thanks Chris) where the debate was about Tyrannosaurus rex lip tissue.
I grabbed my pen and used my older rex model and did some mashup and what not.
This is how I imagine rex that has some sort of lip tissue/skin sheet over the upper row of teeth.
I also gave him a complete overhaul. From the tip of the tail to the nostril.
As for the full lip seal in Tyrannosaurids?!
If they had it, it was an extreme evolutionary disparity(for the lack of a better word)

Model was built in zbrush. Rendered in MR 3ds Max. Comped in Photoshop.

RAAAWRRRR - means Cheers in dinosaur lingo.
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anonymous's avatar
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damir-g-martin's avatar
damir-g-martinProfessional Digital Artist
9Weegee's avatar
9WeegeeHobbyist General Artist
i'm sorry, but the anatomy is wrong on so many levels...
damir-g-martin's avatar
damir-g-martinProfessional Digital Artist
If you'd be kind enough to point out some of the errors I'd appreciate it. 
Thanks for checking out my work.

DovahsaurPaleoKnight's avatar
Good job! Tough latest evidence suggests that tyrannosaurids may have been lipless (or at least have very, very short lips).
megadeth9mm's avatar
yea, they are saying its the same as crocodilian teeth that didnt need to be covered and protected by lips.   im kinda with that.   but feathers/fluffy coat, im all with it.   and this work by damir is terrifying.   damir, throw this bad boy in an environment!   cheers.
DovahsaurPaleoKnight's avatar
Actually no animal can effectively maintain it's enamel only by having covered teeth. Mark Witton showed it and I talked about this issue here dovahkiinhu3br.deviantart.com/… (where I also citated Mark Witton).

And I must say that I kinda jumped into conclusions in this comment. I talked about why I changed my position a bit here dovahkiinhu3br.deviantart.com/… . So yeah, T. rex could have lips even if it would not need it that much (wich is kinda how evolution works).

And what about those scaly skin impressions on tyrannosaurines?
megadeth9mm's avatar
as for the scaly skin, combine that with the frills/feathers found on tyrannos also.....   

so the scaly skin could be a part of the body that wasnt covered by feathers/frills/fuzz whatever lol.    regardless i think more definitive answers will keep coming especially as technology keeps booming.   and there also is the possibility of time travel.... i think humans will eventually know exactly what dinos looked like and how they behaved.   whether its actual time travel, or scientific proof through other technological breakthroughs.    hopefully something happens in our lifetime.....im a little selfish about that lol.
DovahsaurPaleoKnight's avatar
It would be awesome if we could travel back in time indeed.
diebruder's avatar
diebruderHobbyist Digital Artist
sinusonasus1's avatar
sinusonasus1Student Photographer
ALL HAIL THE BEARTURKEYBEAST! It looks awesomely hilariously terrifying! I love it! 
damir-g-martin's avatar
damir-g-martinProfessional Digital Artist
Can you point to an article with this information?
DovahsaurPaleoKnight's avatar
:icondamir-g-martin: I want you to read it as well (if you have time to).

Well Valia I have searched about this myself and here are my conclusions (I will explain it in my own way): Who does not know T. rex of Jurassic Park, the titan who terrified and at the same time rejoiced many children since the first film was released in 1993. That giant monster, with its huge teeth showing, He put terror in the heart of some and emotion in the hearts of others. But, after all, was T. rex like that? After all, many animals today, even reptiles, have their teeth covered by their lips.

It did not take long until the Canadian paleontologist Robert Reiz, as you explained yourself, said that dinosaurs should necessarily have large enough lips to cover their teeth, since, according to him, tooth enamel (the outermost layer , which gives the white color and which protects the dentin cells) would need to be constantly moistened to remain hard and to be efficient, using most of the current animals as examples. Although Reiz gave no definitive proof for his hypothesis, his words were almost immediately (and can also be said blindly) accepted by much of the paleontological community. Before that, dromeossaurids (popularly known as "raptors") were already commonly reconstructed with covered teeth, but only after the Reiz gave his hypothesis was that big carnivores like the T. rex itself began to be reconstructed with covered teeth. Certainly the most notable example of this is the model used in the Saurian game (currently under development).

To this day, Reiz's words are widely accepted, but it did not take long for another paleontologist (in this case: Mark Witton) to take a closer look at it, and what he saw should not have happened had Robert Reiz been right: he observed that even in mammals this is not so simple. He took as an example the canine teeth (very common in mammals) and said that these are only covered thanks to the upper lip, much larger and longer than the lower. He emphasized that the fact that the upper lip, because it is generally very large, hides the fact that the lower lip does not cover the long canines (whereas in birds and reptiles the lower and upper lips always have similar shape and size). He also mentioned walruses, narwhals, fossils, wild boars, the Siberian musk deer and certain crocodilian species that spend considerable time on land : although walruses and narwals spend much of their time in an aquatic environment, their tusks shows signs of erosion (And indeed: the narwhal's "horns" are in fact teeth), even though the enamel seems to be more easily preserved in the tusks of a narwhal; The Siberian musk deer (known as the vampire deer for obvious reasons) is an endangered species of deer that has canines so long that their lips do not completely cover them. Although it is an endangered and rare animal, it has been seen several times and in all the photos this animal shows clearly white tusks with no sign of advanced dental erosion, and so does the exposed prey of a boar... and it is not a simple thin layer of enamel, but a relatively thick layer; Certain animal fossils that clearly had exposed teeth show signs of fairly thick layer of enamel when the specimens died; Certain species of crocodilians spend a long period of time away from water, and many species "rest" for months in dry places to escape the summer heat, without even getting even close to water in that period, and yet they do not show difficulties in crushing bones with their powerful jaws ... and yet crocodilians often show a high degree of tooth erosion even when they are active in rivers and lakes (in fact crocodilians keep replacing their teeth, since one always falls for another to be born until The animal dies (which happens to be the case with all carnivorous dinosaurs.) But if the enamel had to be actually moistened to the point that the teeth would become brittle in a short time, such crocodilians would be eliminated by natural selection, because crocodiles that live up to 70 years are estimated to replace their teeth approximately 50 times. In other words: they keep the exact same teeth more than a year, and even tough spending months away from water does not harm them.

Also all the examples of mammals with covered teeth show a high degree of damage to their teeth (well I can say that this paragraph will be the "climax" of my comment). It is possible to see that the tusks of majestic animals like the lion (Panthera leo), jaguar (Panthera onca), tiger (Panthera tigris), brown bear (Ursos arctos), etc. or even the molars of cattle (Bos taurus) , African elephants (Loxodonta africana), Asian elephant (Elephas Maximus), etc. easily show clear signs of enamel erosion, although the teeth are covered by lips. About saliva: although saliva contains components that help rebuild enamel (such as certain ions and white blood cells to fight microorganisms), saliva is 99.9% composed of water (and if it is too concentrated it would be too viscous and would not spread efficiently). Possible explanations would be the fact that all animals ingest sugars (herbivores and omnivores ingest them directly from lvegetables while carnivores ingest the glucose present in prey's blood) and pieces of meat in the teeth (even crocodiles, that do not have serrated teeth, have to deal with this), and these are the major cause ofenamel erosion (Sugars can be converted into acids in the mouth and pieces of meat attract bacteria that cause tooth erosion), but this would only give emphasis on the criticism of Reiz's hypothesis, since such agents (Acids obtained through sugars and rottinng meat) would be easily acquired through feeding, regardless of whether the animal's teeth were exposed or not. Actually simply saying that exposed teeth would become more succeptible to damage if they were not constantly moistened do not make much sense because how could water (that dilutes substances) make it harder (also naturally enamel is made of 2%-4% of water, with some studies suggesting an evel lower percentage www.deviantart.com/users/outgo… www.deviantart.com/users/outgo… image.slidesharecdn.com/enamle…, so how could moistening actually make enamel harder if enamel barely has 4% of water on it's composition?). Due to all this of all this it can be concluded that the exposure of the teeth is not directly related to a high degree of dental erosion.

Of course: this would not prevent any theropod from having covered teeth because evolution does not work like that. An animal can live with a characteristic that would be almost, almost, useless as long as it does not bring a great disvantage with it. The fact that there is evidence that suggests that tyrannosaurids had exposed teeth is true (I already talked about it in my profile), but that is a different story.
damir-g-martin's avatar
damir-g-martinProfessional Digital Artist
I'm prone to think Tyrannosaurids had partially exposed upper teeth. 
Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this, interesting read!
DovahsaurPaleoKnight's avatar
Ah okay then. At least tell me what you think about my points (and I made a post with almost the same words so if you prefer to comment there...)
damir-g-martin's avatar
damir-g-martinProfessional Digital Artist
It's a good article, I read it before.  But it has pro and con "lip" sides in it. 
Robert Reisz is pro lip theory and Zhijie Jack Tseng, well, I'm not sure what his stance is, but he said this; 
"Each tooth — relatively speaking — doesn't have as much value to the animal as in mammals," Tseng said. 
"T. rex could chip a tooth or get one stuck in prey, and just replace it. 
Evolving protection for teeth is not a critical component of how they eat."

It's all speculation atm. There is no consensus and no real evidence. 
damir-g-martin's avatar
damir-g-martinProfessional Digital Artist
Bottom line from my own perspective is; I wont be making or supporting lip seal on Tyrannosaurids until it is proven with rock solid finds (atm all theory and speculation)
Or a client comes up to me and pays me to make one.
Upper lip, I'm ok with that. 
I'l post a 3d model on my fb page with the outline of the lip tissue that would be needed to make a lip seal. 
2D illustrators who support the lip seal do not portrait Tyrannosaurus correctly on their illustrations where it has opened jaws. 
Once you see that 3d outline you'l realize what i'm talking about. 

nwfonseca's avatar
nwfonsecaProfessional General Artist
First off, I love your renderings of the T. Rex "and others" super well done. To play devils advocate, a lot of people wont put feathers on a T. Rex until they find rock solid evidence for it "i.e. impressions". ;)

I don't really have an opinion one way or the other with regards to lips I can go either way. Until there is direct evidence either way there is a little room for interpretation. I'm working on a T. Rex sculpture and I plan on doing one of each. The heads will be the same up to the maxilla then they will look different. I am however intrigued by the possibility of keratin or hardened skin covering the snout. I am really into sculpting horn, beak, and keratin structures right now. 
damir-g-martin's avatar
damir-g-martinProfessional Digital Artist
Google Yutyrannus huali. Tyrannosaurid found with feathers. For it's no longer did rex have feathery integument, it's more like, how much of feather it had. 

Yes, the soft tissue and the whole lip seal deal is highly speculative on both ends (with or without lip)
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