Chaotic Talks 0.45: Character Design (2)

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Chaotic Talks master post:…

Oh my dude it's finally happening! Character design number 2.

Yes Kyu, it is finallly happening. I finally got around to doing it. It took way longer than I wanted it to...

Kyu? I thought I was Kyubey. Who in the blazes is this Kyu character?

You silly goose, you're not Kyubey. You are Kyu, a humanoid alien invader from another universe who got lost in my universe. You bare similarities and a slight resemblance to Kyubey though.

Oh...well that was weird. Hand me a sparkling water, my brain hurts...

Don't worry my tyke-sized misplaced invader, everything will straighten itself out.

If you say so. So what's going to be the subject of this episode?

How about we get into it, shall we?

Lead the way human William (pops open a cold one)

Welcome to Chaotic Talks! This is a series where I talk about whatever is on my mind. The subject can be literally anything. For those are wondering why I am refering to this as an episode, it is because this will eventually be a series on my YouTube channel (assuming everything doesn't got to hell in a handbasket). Any episode that goes by episode 0.[insert random number here] is a part of season 0, a test season of sorts.

Heh, Reading should say The Dream-Quest of Unknown Kadath, but I finished that book just the other night. It's not that long of a read. Also I highly recomend reading it for yourself. It's not that hard to aquire. It is a little strange in some parts, but it is easy to understand. Just don't overthink it. Anyways, we are finally doing Character design 2. This episode is a sequel to Chaotic Talks 0.32 Character Design

Episode 0.32:…

View-wsie this episode did well. Didn't recieve any comments or favorites good freaking lord. Am I that uninsteresting to people?! (sigh) Regardless I want to do another episode and cover some extra stuff. I intially had a set of points all lined up and ready to go, but I lost that paper. So to remedy this, I went and wrote up another set of points. And to add a little extra substance to this episode, I will TL;DR my points from the first episode and tell you whether or not I still agree with them or whether or not I want to add something in or clarify something. Spoilers, I am actually pretty sastisfied with the points I made in the first episode on Character design. My only issue was that it was too short. It could have been longer. And with that in mind, this episode may actually be a long one. We shall see soon enough.

And yes, Defective Kyubey is no more...not really. I am still going to continue the Defective Kyubey storylines, but not in Chaotic Talks. Is this is a spoiler? Yes. Why am I doing this? While Defective Kyubey is a parody, I still want something original. Plus everybody disregards parody despite claiming to abide by it. Obviously nobodoy has said anything...but then again no one ever freaking comments... Basically I want something I can truly call my own. Defective Kyubey does not sate that need. Technically "Defective Kyubey" is my creation, but he uses Kyubey as a base. Kyu is 100% original disregarding the aspect where he was clearly inspired by Kyubey. But fret not, the design I drew up is more than distinct enough and his backstory is definitely different too.

So how is this episode going to work? Well fortuantely for you guys I have this all planned out. We will split this up into sections: Personality, Critique, Design, and Anantomy/proportions. Each section will start out with the previous episode's points accompanied with my thoughts on them and then the new points. Originally I was going to have the old new stuff seperated, but I decided to keep them altogether and kept in their respective categories. So let's get into personality. But before we start: I am NOT here to critique your characters. With everything I am about to present, you should be able to do that yourself. Also pardon any spelling, grammar, punctuation, or vocabulary mistakes. I have proofread this, but I am not perfect. Let me know and I will fix them ASAP.


So let's get into the old stuff. If you wish to use episode 0.32 as a reference, the link is above and in the master post. Please correct me if I got anything wrong from the first episode, I am not perfect.

1. The first characters you design will be Mary-Sues or Gary-Stu's.
- Yes, I still agree with this point. Of course there are rare exceptions. Sometimes kids get it right right off the bat. But most of the time they won't. It's the nature of the beast in regards to growing up. And just in case you do not know what MS and GS are: MS and GS are characters that are perfect, have no flaws, and everybody loves them unconditionally. MS is the female variant and GS is the male variant. Typically these characters are self-insert or some form of wish fufilment. Ususally these characters are made out of ignorance or inexperience.

2. Mary-Sues and Gary-Stu's are made out of Inexperience and ignorance.
- Yes, I still agree with this too. I mentioned this above, but I will explain. To make something, you need to know how to make said thing. You cannot write a proper character if you do not know how to write a character. Would you try to make a cake if you didn't know how to? No, you'd have your friend show you how to do it and then try it yourself once you think you've got the hang of it and keep improving until you get it right. Same logic applies to wiriting characters.

3. The issues of a Mary-Sue and a Gary Stu is that they are perfect.
- Yup, no complaints here. Simply put: There is nothing to get invested in. There is nothing interesting about the character.

4. Characters should interest people. Interesting characters have some form of conflict to resolve and that is why people like them.
- The difference between a Mary-sue and a good character is that the good character has something interesting about them. This always comes in the form of a conflict they have to resolve. Humans function on positivity and get satisfaction from seeing conflict resolved. This is what I have observed and deduced after watching this batshit-insane generation of humanity act like a bunch frothing maniacs screaming, hollaring, and consuming everything in sight. Basically make your character interest people by giving it a conflict to resolve.

5. Make your character interesting.
- People will gravitate towards whatever interests them. It's basic human nature. Ergo make your character interest people.

6. Have a reason for your character to be in a situation they are in and have it relate to who they are.
- This is a crucial aspect of character design. Every person has a reason for doing something or being involved in something. Not giving your character a reason is straight up lazy writing. Again, everybody has a reason for doing something or being involved in something.

7. Make your character a regular person with apropiate character traits.
- Yup, still agree here. Not much say as this point is self-explanatory and we will explain more of it soon.

8. You can design a character around a situation or you can design a situation around a character.
- You can do either or here. Really it depends on what you are going for with your stories and characters. Do you like to have your characters first or do you like to have your story all set first? Both methods have their pros and cons.

9. Avoid fake flaws and fake conflict.
- This is one of the points I cannot stress enough. Your character picking their nose is not a character flaw. Your character forgetting something petty in the grand scheme of things is not a conflict. Technically these things are, but you get what I am saying: Don't be a lazy writer.

10. Put yourself in your character's shoes and know how your character would act.
- Boy/Girl/Person-who-identifies-as-a-homo-sapien/humanoid lifeform, you better freaking know your character. YOU FREAKING WROTE THEM. Don't come up to me and say "Well gee, I don't really know my character..." Again, YOU WROTE THEM. Plus you should be able to empathize in general. If you cannot do any of these things, you are in trouble. In case you couldn't tell, yes I still agree with this point.

11. There is a diference betweeen a well-off character and a mary-sue.
- A well-off character does not equal a Mary-sue. A girl with pink hair does not equal Mary-sue. A talented man does not equal a Gary-stu. This is something I hate and a point of contention for a lot of people. And then you got those dingbats who knee jerk when they see something with odd colored hair or weird habbits. If you are going to assume I am defending a particular series or specific character, abandon that notion right here and now. I am speaking in general terms. In case you are wondering, I have heard of the knee jerking happening and I have seen people knee jerk like that before. And yes, we will be getting to character critique soon.

And now time for the new stuff:

So one of the first things I want address is making your character's personality. Something I see a lot of on DA and elsewhere is people listing traits, likes, and dislikes. Why am I bringing this up? It seems relatively normal. Well here is the problem: People get lazy and just list stuff and have a mile long list of traits, likes, and dislikes. DO NOT DO THIS. This is being lazy with your character building. Think about it: Lisiting traits, likes, and dislikes takes next to to no effort at all. There is a difference between building your character and listing stuff. When you build your character, you are putting effort into making a character, setting a standard for how they act, and fleshing out their background. When you list, all you're doing is throwing a bunch of traits you want into a pile and hoping for the best. Can lists work? Yes assuming you have already built your character. Making lists should not be a substitute for making a character. It should be a TL;DR of something you have already created.

--IMPORTANT NOTICE (2019)-- Please note for this next section that I typed it under a different, biased mindset. My views have changed since then and I have addressed it in several addendums you will see as you read on. Please keep this all in mind as you read this next part.

Another thing I see people doing is having an equal number of good and bad traits...and then having a total of around 50 traits. That's great if you are writing an inhuman psychopath, but not if you are writing a normal character. As I said in the first episode: write a normal person with appropaite traits. Typically this is what I see when people write characters: Mostly "good" traits = Heroes journey. Mostly "bad" traits = Character study. Typically people who give out some of the worst advice I have seen in regards to this stuff are people from DeviantTube, the ranting community, and the Neo CC. For a frame of reference of what parts of these communities I am talking about, I am refering to people like SolarSands, DeviantCringe, xX IcyHazard Xx, Yankee Doodle Dandy Tones, SavDraws, and Pentagrin/VeryMetal. YUP, we are talking about that part of the internet... You've got Solar Sands saying you need flaws without explaining himself. Dude makes it sound like only flaws validate your character. You've got SavDraws saying you need an equal amount of good and bad traits. No, people can have a majority of good traits or a majority of bad traits. What truly matters is whether or not they are interesting.

Now before anyone says anything, Nothing personal towards anyone I mentioned. I find some of them legitimately annoying, but ultimately I do not care. I just needed a frame of reference for whom I was refering to and some of the advice I have heard is legitimately bad advice. As an aside, would you really trust someone called "DeviantCringe" or "Yankee Doodle Dandy Tones"? The last one sounds like one of those channels that uploads those shitty Elsa and Spiderman videos, But I digress. There will be a time to roast the Neo CC and parts of DeviantTube, but this is not the episode for that.

Future Chaotic from the year 2019 here! Quick sidenote: As time has gone on, I have gotten more used to Icy and Dooodle tones. I did have some disdain for them back when I typed this, but this has gone away over time. Hell, I even follow them now.  So yeah, allow me to apologize for what past me said. But I am still not too keen on SolarSands, I still find deviantcringe annoying, and I still hate f***ing Pentagrin.

Well jeez William, you just did the equivalent of painting a massive target on yourself. What do you have to say for yourself?


What the fudge? William? Where are you going? Stop twirling that halberd like a helicopter blade! You are not in a Ymfah Dark Souls Video...! God blast it all, he's gone. (sigh) I guess I will speak on his behalf then. So obviously Human William still has some gripes with the ranting community and The Neo CC hasn't exactly gotten on his good side. Honestly I am quite surprised he scrapped his initial episode on the Neo CC and Alt CC. Anyways, despite his roasts, he means no harm to anyone. He apologizes in case anyone was offended. Ultimately he wants people to better themselves. It's just that his harsher criticial side comes out when he sees something that upsets or frustrtates him. Or at least that's how I think he feels and thinks. I'm a bit new to earth, so it's kind of hard to tell. Now normally to solve something, my species just invades and takes over. But apperently humans try to promote a mentality of live and let be. I mean if it works then fine. I say invade and take over, but I'm willing to try something new. THE FREAKING WORMHOLE OBVIOUSLY WANTED ME TO TRY SOMETHING NEW!

(Ten minutes later)

And he is still not back yet... Blasted Earth memes...

ALRIGHT, I'm back!

What the hell was that? Is that a normal thing for you humans?

No, I just had vent a little bit. And I got stopped by an old wizard who asked me how I aquired my halberd and If I had seen a man called helicopter was very weird.

So you ready to get back to this episode? Because I am not doing the part on critique. This planet is weird enough as is...

Don't worry, I got this one.

Addendum 1 (2018): God damn it why did I throw Doodle tones under the bus like that? They're going to see this and be like "Dude, wtf?" I only say that because I have been watching Ponder Sprocket's videos. Honeslty I think I am being a bit harsh towards Doodle. Again, I have to reiterate that I  mean no ill will towards anyone I mentioned. I was just being overly ciritical Barring DeviantCringe and solar sands, but I digress. KYU! GET THE FALLOUT SHELTER READY!


Oh boy oh is a doozy. Bit of short doozy surprisingly.

1. Do not subjectify things
- I absolutely still agree with this. DO NOT SUBJECTIFY OBJECTIVE TERMS WHEN GIVING CRITIQUE. DO NOT SUBJECTIFY YOUR AN ENTIRE CRITIQUE. You need to be Objective and Subjective which we will explain in the next point.

2. Stay Objective and Subjective.
- THIS is the basic principle or Critique and Review. You need to be objective in your analysis and subjective on how you feel personally. It does not matter how much you like that ballet dancer, they still messed up their dance. Human beings are different from each other and we are not a hivemind. We each have different opinions. This is when you need to be objective. I personally don't like Rap and country, but I will admit when I hear a song I think is good. If I adhered to my opinions, I would have to hate every rap and country song regardless of their quality. Same logic applies to Characters and stories. You may not like an aspect of something, but give credit where credit is due.

3. Pay attention to context
- If you are going to ignore context, you might as well not even bother with your review or critique.

So here are some things I want to add in. There is valid and Invalid criticism. This falls in line with acknowledging context. Before you criticize, think about what you are looking at and ask yourself if what you are about to say is still valid. I am not saying what you are about to say is invalid, I'm just saying double checking never hurts. It's better to be safe than sorry. In line with what I am saying, At the end of the day critique is there to help you, not harm you. The same thing applies to valid criticism. To shut these out is to openly say you are above everyone and no one likes that. In line with what I am saying, NEVER stop improving. Some people never improve. They will literally have a ten year old gallery with the same quality of art throughout with no sign of improvement whatsoever. I will never understand that. I would go insane if my art hadn't improved since 2011. Look at my art overtime, it has improved since 2011.

Wow that was shorter than I thought it would be...dang.


1. Know your character, who they are, and how they dress.
- Echoing a similar point from the personality section, you wrote the blasted character. You should know who they are.

2. A character needs to be readable, people need to be able to tell what's going on.
- So you know those Clusterf*** OCs that are overloaded with details and have 100 different colors? Yeah, you are going to want to avoid doing that. I and the audience should be able to tell what is going on with your character. If not, we are going to lose interest faster than you can say overly complex character. Humans have limited memeory and need to save it for the best stuff, not the worst.

3. Ask yourself this: I knew what I drew, but will other people know what I drew?
- This falls in line with what I just said in point #2. Taking a step back is very good thing to do in art and you should do it here too. Not only to see what you are drawing, but to see if it works for what you are going for.

4. Character unity is a good thing to have.
- Want a good example of character unity? Look at Gurren Lagann's main characters. The visiual design of Simon, Kamina, and Yoko each have something in common with each other. Character unity is not exactly required as people dress and behave differently, but it is very nice to have and you will get points for doing so. But remember this: keep it subtle, but not too subtle.

5. Bad design ranges from overly complex to hard to read and too much going on, a polluted color scheme, or both.
- You know what I am talking about. You've seen these kinds of characters before. But just in case you do not know what a polluted color scheme is, that is essentially a color scheme with too many unique colors in it that does not form a coherent pattern. On the contrary, garish usage of color can also constitute bad character design. We'll talk more about color schemes in a later point and further on down the line.

6. If a character takes 2 hours to draw every single time you draw it, go back to the drawing board.
- The only time it should take that long to draw a character should be when you are first drawing it or when you are doing a highly detailed drawing. Once you master your character, you should be able to draw it quickly. You know what to draw. Taking this long everytime says to me that you put in too much detail.

7. People have limited memory, TL;DR your character.
- This falls in line with the previous point, but really this only applies to complex characters. Simplistic Characters don't really need this. I kind of wish I made this a little clearer in the first episode.

8. Any color scheme can work or fail. Also nature does not care in the slightest.
- This point is self-explanatory and I still agree with it. Any color scheme can work and I have seen it in action. Contrasting colors compliment each other (just look at teal and orange movie posters) while complimentary colors are easy on the eyes and monchromatic color schemes are easy to follow. But Teal and Orange can easily fail if they are too garish. Usually bad color schemes are garish and obnoxious regardless of whatever color they use.

9. Compatible color schemes are typically easier to do while contrasting color schemes are little more tricky to pull off.
- Speaks for itself given the last point we just discussed. And yes I still agree with it.

10. Avoid Polluted color schemes at all costs.
- Refer to points 5, 7, and 8. You can also refer to basic color theory on these. And of course I still agree with this point too.

Alright, we are finally moving on to the new stuff! Sticking with color schemes, let's transition into edge. Trust me, color schemes will come back into this. I am going to be honest with you guys: I have a soft spot for EDGE. I like a little edge here and there. And there is nothing inherently wrong with edgy characters despite what the internet would you have believe. The problem is too much edge. No one likes too much of anything really and Edge is no exception. So keep this in mind: Edge is not a valid critcism. The criticism we are looking for is too much edge. Also any color scheme can be made edgy. Any design you can imagine can be OW THE EDGE. It's not exclusive to red and black. Blue and black can be edgy. WHITE AND GOLD CAN BE EDGY WITH ENOUGH EFFORT. Hell, a normal character can be edgy throught their actions.

Good lord, This turing into Trope Talk from Overly Sarcastic Productions. Love that channel by the way. Someone tell Red to do an episode on the edge trope if she hasn't already by the time of me typing this.

So here is a couple more points that don't really go together on my notes page.

- Be mindful of your character design. You wouldn't want to create something offensive that society has been rejecting for years unless your character is a part of a historical piece or is highly satirical for whatever reason (even then you are kind of pushing things a bit).
- Don't be afraid to scrap your character and start over. God knows I have done that dozens of times.
- Contrasting color schemes can help bring attention to your character if done right.
- DO NOT STACK COLORS ON YOUR CHARACTER. And if you are going to do so, blend them or give your character a VERY GOOD REASON for being like that. Color stacking is garish, chaotic, and awful to look at.


So I forgot to write up any new points for this section. I'll just do what I have been doing with the other old points and add onto them if need be.

1. Sex appeal and fan service is under extra scrutiny.
- Rule of thumb: people will notice bad anatomy if you are going for fan service or sex appeal. And I see this a lot in series that go for pleasure over style or substance. Just keep this stuff in mind when you are going for fan service. It's a situation where people will notice this stuff if you are constantly rubbing it in their faces.

2. Breasts are not the size of pillows...
- Anime is notorious for unrealistic bust sizes and proportions. I should know, I watch anime on a regular basis and browse the internet often. The only time a character's bust should be that big is if they are wearing a suit with inflatable breasts. And do not even get me started on unrealistic bust shapes. Breasts do not look like sausage tubes or giant water balloons. Breasts are also not pointed. As someone who takes anatomy in art seriously, all of these irritate the crap out of me. To be fair, western animation is also guilty of these issues. It's not exclusive to anime believe it or not. Also saying "It's just my style bro" only goes so far.

3. "it's just my style bro" is not an excuse.
- To clarify, this only applies to blatant anatomy screw ups. Making an obvious mistake and claiming it's your "style" is not going to fool anyone.

4. Take a step back if need be.
- Do I even need to explain this by now?

5. References are good and bases are good practice.
- This is just common knowledge really. Would you believe there are a people who get angry at you for using references? Complete and utter morons.

6. Do not uses bases as a replacements for your art.
- Bases are good when used as a learning material. Bases are bad when they replace your artwork. Ignore anyone who says this is wrong, they either do not know what they are talking about or are super arrogant and demand you do things their way.

And before we move on: SKIN IS NOT SHINY. RED SKIN IMPLIES A SUNBURN OR A VERY TENDER SPOT. Bakugan Battle Brawlers is notorious for shiny skin and the internet in general is notoroius for characters with red skin patches. THAT IS NOT HOW SKIN WORKS! SKIN IS MATTE AND OPAQUE! NOT SHINY AND TRANSLUCENT! WE ARE NOT WATER BALLOONS! HUMANS ARE MADE OF BONE, TISSUE, MUSCLE, SKIN, FAT, AND VARIOUS OTHER ORGANIC MATERIALS. Sorry for the caps, I am just getting sick and tired of shiny skin.

William! You locked me out!

Oh sorry about that Kyu, I'll be over in one second!

Don't worry, I got it. Just give me a second.

Kyu, you better not... Oh good lord (gags) what the f*** are you doing?

(oozes under the door) Fixing the issues. Just because...

don't...don't talk while you are reforming yourself. Good lord, I am going to hurl at this rate...

Just because I look human doesn't mean I am. I was built to prepare a planet for invasion. I need to be able to adapt to a situation.

(shudders) Warn me next time you do that.

That one was a doozy of an episode. Can you take a look at my character?

No, I am not reviewing characters.


Kyu, you should be able to come to your own conclusions based on what I typed. I was pretty throrough in this episode.

Eh, I guess you have a point there. Say, what card game do you play with these weird black and white cards?

You don't... those are Tarot cards. The Hermetic Tarot to be precise. You tell fortunes with those. Apperently there is a game associated with tarrot cards, but I don't know it.

Do they work? Seems a little sketchy to be letting random cards tell your "fortune."

Well 2 things: Tarot cards are not gospel. Really they are more along the lines of what is most likely to happen than what is actually going to happen. Secondly: the universe is weird Kyu. It relies on coincidence to get things done for pretty much anything you can think of.

And how can I trust you? Pardon my asking.

Simple, I am a fallen angel who retains his duties...(snickers) somewhat.

Show me.

Alright (phases in and out). Behold! Fallen angel Zas stands before you. (sigh)

What the freak even are you? What am I even looking at? Are you even real?

To answer your first question: I am blob of Nightmares, Chaos, and Entropy. To answer your second question: Debatably considering I am living distortion of reality. Don't ask how that works out.

Good lord, all you'd have to do to stop an invasion is just show them your true form...

Seriously? Do they not have creatures like Fallen angels and demons?

Well yeah, my civilization believes in demons, but to see something like you in the flesh and blood would melt their minds on that spot. I am suprised my brain is staying intact...

Well just don't overthink it and you should be fine.

Say, can you go out in public like that?

(snickers) No, there would be mass panic and hysteria. How do you think people would react to me?

Then what about the people reading this?

HAH! They don't believe I exist! I can do whatever I want here! How do you think I keep getting away with my escapades?

(clicks tongue) Noice

So that is the end of the episode... It was fun.

Stay frosty everyone!

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