Feedback + Suggestions

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If you have an idea, suggestions, or feedback for our group please leave a comment below!
You can be as detailed with your suggestion as you'd like!



Please refrain from suggesting entirely new features to the website! We have a lot planned already and want to focus on getting the core parts of the ARPG in first.

✦ We appreciate all forms of feedback! Please tell us what you like, what you don't like, and what could be improved.

Keep in mind that it is ultimately the choice of the admins which features will be added. Suggesting something is not a guarantee it will make it into the game. We want to consider each new feature carefully!

Feedback and suggestions can be about anything! From accessibility, rules, features, events, items, and so on!

✦ This is not the place to go if you take issue with one of the mods or admins, please note the group or contact AgentCorrina or blackpyres directly.

✦ We do not take anonymous suggestions or feedback.

✦ We are not obligated to give credit for any suggestions.

Be considerate and respectful with your comments and suggestions!
Constructive feedback laid out in a clear and concise way is the most helpful for us!





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NeoPalkiaDS's avatar

Hello! I come bearing a sort of suggestion to potentially help out FTOs/Non-owners a little more! I'm sure there may be some things going on behind the scene that I currently do not know about that might be in the works to give FTOs/Non-owners a better chance at getting started in Celestial-Seas, though this suggestion is being made as I currently do not know what those processes are.


I know Celestial-Seas is meant to be a bit more laid-back in terms of the ARPG and questing-- SG not too frequent to come across. This is especially the case for FTOs/Non-owners. While they have ample opportunity to earn SG via events and potentially even a free design if the event has some raffles, I was perhaps thinking of one alternative method that could still have them earn SG through ARPG work outside of events, though only once (currently, at this time, as I'm unsure what other sort of vital features are planned to come to the game)-- being able to use an NPC for very specific quests, ones that are more focused around unlocking a big gameplay mechanic which, currently at this time, is just crafting.


Crafting in and of itself is a pretty big gameplay mechanic that isn't completely character-reliant-- you take items you got through say, a gacha or supply crate or purchase and you craft them together to get a better item. For FTOs/Non-owners that may have obtained such items, to them they're virtually useless for crafting as currently, they cannot unlock crafting without a character of their own. Sure they can be resold for SG to another user, though the economy on that part is potentially a bit fickle-- SG is highly coveted for its difficulty and long time to earn, so users may or may not be willing to purchase such items depending on their current state of saving, and may instead seek to swap items/trade for them instead.


Then we come to the core of the suggestion-- letting users use an NPC (or community character-- is there a difference? I'm unsure ^^ ; ) to complete big gameplay mechanic quest(s) like crafting. If there aren't many quests like crafting that are planned for the foreseeable future, if any at all, then I'm more than willing to hear some reasoning behind the potential denial of this! After all, I don't know much of what may be going on behind the scenes. If many more quests like crafting are being planned for release that unlock big gameplay mechanics (that aren't character-reliant) like crafting, then I can understand a bit more why such a suggestion would be denied. Now, on to some more of the suggestion!


The feature, using an NPC for crafting, would be doable for everyone only once. It could be difficult to track this on the back-end because of no character to attach a certain thing to on the ML to signify quest completion, but that's where I think badges can come into play! Just a small badge, doesn't need to be too ornate-- just something to signify that a specific user has completed the quest with an NPC, and they'd add it in as an additional reward on top of everything else if they're using an NPC (and if it helps, they can specify which viable NPC in the comments with a link to them if they're not on the ML); they'd just fact a simple rejection/send back for edits notice if they don't include those details like one would need to include certain details for a character they own for quest completion. If the user that earned the sort of NPC completion badge tried to do that quest again with a different NPC, they'd just face rejection since they already have that badge.


Now we get into the SG calculations of this all! Questing for crafting has 3 act parts-- the person would naturally need to use the same NPC throughout all of them. If they were to do a theoretical maxing of what they can earn (as a FTO/Non-owner), it'd likely look something like this:


(5 (base) + 22 (comic panel max bonus) + 5 (BG bonus) + 24 (non-owner bonus-- +1 onto the 23 for the focus character) + 3 (if NPC = a community character) + 5 (complex animation bonus) + 3 (extra story bonus, if able to be applied for comics as well)) x 3 (# of crafting quest parts) = 201 SG


201 total Stargold! Just enough for a first (with peculiars thrown in as well)/second-purchase kitbull, a first purchase satyr with a rare/uncommon aspect or uncommon trait, or just a first purchase browbird. If a person is willing to put in the hard work to create such pieces for the quest, they can come out of there at any time of the year with their first ever browbird. For already-owners, the amount of SG would amount to 183 due to their lack of the non-owner bonus if they choose not to include a companion they might own. The usability of items on NPCs would likely be up for discussion, though it's mainly a matter of +1-100 SG and the extremely rare chance to find items, depending on the apparel or item used-- the exclusion of item usage based on how you don't own the NPC can avoid some of that extra SG flood.


I'm sure even allowing this to be complete-able for already-owners as well will have some form of impact on the economy, though the gravity of the impact I'm unsure of! I'd love to hear some insight on to how big the impact might be if already owners had an access to a theoretical extra 183 SG if they did all that extra work for it. It could be useful for commissions, for buying items to craft, to being put towards another MYO slot, etc. Whatever the feedback on this suggestion might be, I'm still looking forward to how it may or may not be allowed because, either way, it gives me a little more insight as to how some of the economy of the ARPG works and is balanced :>

NeoPalkiaDS's avatar

A lil edit since the 300 word story cannot be done for comics: 3 well gift arts same-week of each prompt submission (if it takes roughly 1 week for each piece) can be done to make it to the 201/183 SG :>

SIeepyBears's avatar

(just to let you know I have forwarded this to the mod team, and we will get back to you with a more in-depth response when we are able! :-D)

NeoPalkiaDS's avatar
SIeepyBears's avatar

:heart: Currently discussing! Will get back to you >:3c

NeoPalkiaDS's avatar
SIeepyBears's avatar

We've discussed your concerns and super appreciate your feedback! @AgentCorrina will be the one to get back to you with an official response, however he is currently in the process of a big move, so it might take 1-3 weeks!

NeoPalkiaDS's avatar

Thank you for letting me know, and that's all good! I hope the move goes all well for him!c:

SIeepyBears's avatar

Thank you!! Np!! (overall we agree with what you have said, and you raise fair points! We just need corrin to confirm if/how he will implement them)

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Miss-Italia's avatar
Hello! 
I'm finally comfortable op get started in the group with my Painted Satyr! 

A lot of times I animate my gift art and prompt entries, so I wanted to think about it with the group. 

Maybe the star gold payout can be decided in groups? 
 a smaller amount for animations that is like only two frames, maybe three max?
a larger amount  for longer animations, perhaps more then 3 frames?
and the largest amount of star gold for really complex animations (it's really hard to describe this...)

Maybe someone can check animated entries to tell how much star gold they are worth? I'm honestly struggling with calculating animations as well ;w; 

I know the Woolyne group does give extra payout for animations, but it does says moderate, small animations don't count but I personally would give a bit of a reward for that to? Maybe divide it into two groups? (giving something for every animated second or frame can quickly go crazy, my animations loop a few times so later a trick can be added, I could also easily stretch my animation so this would kinda feel like cheating and make me uneasy if I got paid extra for that...) 

Schermafbeelding 2020-02-19 om 17.34.55 by Miss-Italia
AgentCorrina's avatar
hello!! i'm a big fan of your animations btw, i really love them!

i'd love to talk more about this with you if you have further suggestions or ideas of specific amounts of sg for animation that's in line with the other entry options! we do a stargold base and will add a bonus for backgrounds and extra characters so i feel those could stay the same as drawn entries, but when it comes to frame counts i do get a bit lost on what would be fair payouts.

im also curious if you have visual examples of what could be considered small, moderate, and complex perhaps?

thank you for your feedeback!
Miss-Italia's avatar
OMG thank you! Sad Cat 

I've send you a note, don't want people to get pinged when I use their art as an example. 

I am an outsider who has been watching this group for quite some time. I'm highly picky with what species groups I get involved in, especially ones that revolve around larger amounts of money being a more than general requirement to have an enjoyable time. I'm using a throwaway account to speak my mind for fear that I would be hunted down for my opinions, and perhaps if things change, I might like to join the group, and would rather be able to join without any bias.


I've been observing recent events in the group over the past year or so, looking at adopt batches, so on and so forth. I'm highly happy with how the group is run; things look to be very engaging for the community, and I believe Corrin does a lovely job coordinating events.


But I feel like my main problem lies with traits.


Design-wise, browbirds and the other species are phenomenal. This isn't about that. I've been noticing that the weebly has gotten a visual overhaul with a lot of the traits, which has been nice to see. Unfortunately, it's gotten to the point to where I wonder if it's really worth much.


Typically, in a species, traits in tiers like mythic, for example, should be harder to acquire, and few and far between in order to maintain that rarity. Same with your browbird subtypes, like the Astrayans or Halves and the other kinds.


But when I go looking at the browbird masterlist account, I am finding more and more free myo slots being gifted to members of the mod team, seemingly limitless myos where they can freely choose as many mythic traits as they like, as well as these rarer subtypes that do not frequently come out in batches. However, when those types do come out, they are generally purchased by those on the mod team. To an outsider looking in, I am under the impression that mythic traits and special subtypes are pretty much only reserved for members of staff, because it's a bit harder to find those subtypes owned by other people that aren't customs.


I feel like there is a difference between rewarding your mod team periodically for all the hard work they put into helping you with your species, and what I feel is clearly some form of nepotism. Perhaps a bit harsh of a word but I feel like it fits my feelings. If your staff consistently receive free myos with zero limits, oftentimes it being a custom, I do not see why the staff also feel the need to purchase the adopts that they could easily make themselves. I watch the auctions, aka the ones that do go through if they aren't sniped on Patreon, which I find to be another roadblock, and it's become increasingly more disappointing to see when the legitimately rare and hard to acquire designs go to the same people that can also make them for free.


I have to wonder, at what point do you look at your masterlist of over 650 characters and think, "Hmm, the mods seem to have a rather disproportionate amount of the mythic traits and subtypes, maybe it is time to limit their access to it permanently (or at least temporarily) so that some other members have a chance to get something new and unique".


This isn't me coming along and saying that you should not reward your staff for their hard work, or that you shouldn't give gifts to your friends. Please do not twist my words on this. However, I feel like for as expensive as this species can be, if mods are able to create free characters that would typically be well over a thousand dollars in auction, then they should not be allowed to participate in auctions or flatsales. I don't understand why you would want to enable your staff to hoard these wonderful types and traits, and leave your regular members feeling left out and like what they have isn't as special. It feels very unfair, and it's one of the reasons why I've stayed away. I had interest in the final winter advent design, as the "preview" piqued my interest, but I was disappointed to find that it had already been taken by a staff member, as I had suspected it might have been.


There is a severe imbalance in this distribution of your traits, your subtypes, and the general amount of characters owned by your staff versus your actual community.

Species are a luxury, I do not dispute this. But it's hard to get people excited about getting one of those really hard-to-obtain types or traits when the staff get to them first, and then proceed to also make free ones for themselves.


I am not expecting a reply; quite frankly I am expecting you to simply hide this comment so that no one else can see it, and you will continue doing as you do now. I am simply expressing my main concern with this species, and I just cannot justify spending my money here when I will only be able to purchase standard designs.

AgentCorrina's avatar
hello!

i want to be honest, I don't feel comfortable encouraging anonymous feedback like this and would like to avoid it in future comments.
if you do not feel comfortable posting feedback publicly using your main account, please consider contacting me via note or adding me on discord instead to talk things over!

i'm not quite sure how to word it and i do not mean this in a bad way, but i prefer to take feedback when i can put a face to who is saying it. It's hard for me to discuss something openly when it feels like the other person is hiding. 

i make a point to not hold bias towards anyone for their opinions of the group since every person has a right to feel how they do. i am also always open to discussing group and species with members!

thank you for understanding! 
Limesparrow's avatar
hullo! just a thought i had:

for a written entry each additional 100 words over 800 counts for +1 stargold. makes sense! for a drawn entry, a written addition has to be 500 words but only gives you +3 stargold. maybe the cap could be lowered to 300 for consistency?
AgentCorrina's avatar
hello! i think this makes a lot of sense and would make things more balanced/consistent, thanks for pointing it out! we'll take a look at it, we have some plans to update SG payouts quite a bit after the current event concludes!
Jayojo's avatar
Super long post, I know. Please bear with me.

A suggestion for writers to earn bonus stargold.

This is clearly a point of contention so I'm trying to tread lightly for everyone's sakes, but I am someone who does not make art — writing is my personal medium of choice. I have spent well over 15 years perfecting my craft in written media, and I feel like it's just as important as drawn works. It's not my means of "cramming in stuff last minute"; this is literally what I make money off of, and I work hard on it.

I did not particularly enjoy the insinuation of people using writing as a medium for last-minute ditch efforts; however, even if there is truth to that, shouldn't they be properly compensated for it anyway? They still completed the prompt, did they not? Making a hasty, last-minute drawing for a prompt is still hasty and last-minute; having to write out a plot, dialogue, and carrying it from start to finish, especially if including multiple characters, shouldn't be overlooked just because it's not drawn. That's entirely unfair. I have witnessed plenty of artists who say "oh the deadline is today, better hurry and cram in a prompt before it closes", and yet they still earn their bonuses. Why is it suddenly different for writers? Are only artists allowed to procrastinate and do things last minute and earn fair payouts? That is how it seems, at least from how things were laid out in the chat in regards to last-minute cramming.

That being said, I do have some suggestions, with examples of my past Celestial Seas event prompts to further illustrate my points.

I feel like writers should qualify for additional character bonuses, as long as the additional characters meet some kind of general criteria, such as:

- being prominent; no casual mention or background characters
- having ample dialogue and direct involvement
- their points of view are written multiple times throughout the work
- they are specifically used to further the direction of the writing


During the Sor Solir event, I wrote all of my prompts involving my browbird, Fhyu. There were some prompts where I included additional characters and NPCs, but it was all very light work and none of it was plot-crucial. The entirety of my writing could have progressed without any of those characters being included or mentioned. Even with the history I gave Fhyu with one of the NPCs, it was still nothing that could have considered it to be notably deserving of an additional character bonus. You can check my prompts here: www.deviantart.com/jayojo/gall…

However, moving onto Candleblight just a couple months ago, I really revved up my engines and I worked double time on my entries. I focused on my browbird Jet and his mate, Indra. Both Jet and Indra were overall balanced in terms of being focused on, verbal dialogue, and furthering the plot. Yes, Jet was my character and I was focused on him because of that. However, if I removed Indra from the equation, my entries would not have been able to progress as they did. Indra was a crucial character in every single prompt, and I worked hard on my initial drafts and carried that over into my final product to make sure that he stayed prominent, visible, and important. You can check my prompts here: www.deviantart.com/jayojo/gall…

There comes a point where, as staff, you should be able to read anyone's written entries and deduce if the additional characters are actually important and prominent. It might take a little bit longer than it would to just look at someone's drawing and counting all of the characters in it, but we deserve to have our written works looked at in its entirety and graded as fairly as anyone else's work. All prompt entries, regardless if done last minute or worked incredibly hard on, all deserve the same level of fairness. Writing isn't just "the easy way out". I do not make art. I chose to develop my craft in writing. I am not deserving of less simply because I don't make something that you can just quickly look at and count the characters in. They're not the same, but they should be given the same chance for levels of involvement.

I'll give some loose examples of involvement below, to kind of highlight my point even further.


1) Characters X and Y are in the city on a date. They go to a restaurant together, and then go to the museum to look at stuff. There is plenty of dialogue between them, equal amounts from both characters. Both have equal focus as a main character, and their points of view are clearly written out throughout the entire work.

This would be eligible for a bonus, because it can't be a date with just one person. Both of them had equal screen time and dialogue, and they were both needed to carry the plot.


2) Characters X and Y are in the city together on a date. They go to a restaurant together, and then go to the museum to look at stuff. X is the focal point of the writing and is primarily focused on. Y gets in a few sentences with bits of dialogue. Most of the writing is dialogue-free and is more focused on environment and movement.

This would be ineligible for a bonus, because while they were both needed to carry the plot, Y had little involvement and was not as focused on as X. 


3) X goes to the store to buy socks. They run into a group of friends; 4 different people. They all chat for a bit before parting ways, and X goes to buy his socks and leaves the store.

This would be ineligible for a bonus, because while the other characters had plenty of dialogue, they were not crucial to X's overall mission of going to the store to buy socks.


In my opinion, the additional character bonus for artists is there to challenge themselves to go above and beyond and include so much more than they would have initially. But is it right to deny writers of that same experience? With writing, you have to utilize multiple characters throughout a written work. It's not a matter of just making mention of them and leaving them at that. Characters all have different personalities. Plot things happen. Characters have to adapt and mold to the plot of the work. Especially in the event of someone writing a character that does not belong to them, they have to learn and understand how that character behaves, and then accurately depict them with keeping them true to their character.

I feel like including additional characters in this kind of capacity is incredibly challenging, especially to people who are new at writing. I was new at writing once; writing multiple characters was hard for me and I wasn't good at it. But the more I practiced, the better I got. I feel like it's wrong to have a special kind of bonus that artists can get by piling in as many characters as they can, and then withhold that from writers who create entire stories using multiple characters, stories that wouldn't be able to be written without having those characters.

The way things were stated in chat earlier, it made me feel like no one was willing to really read written prompts to deduce if included characters were prominent enough. This was upsetting to take in, because it made me feel like none of my past prompts were looked at much by the staff, with that having been said.

However, I'm willing to stick my neck out and offer my help with this.

I've been involved in writer's groups for years, and was always involved in literature and writing clubs even in my high school years. I've spent a huge portion of my life learning how to beta works and proofread, learned how to create grading rubrics for written works specifically, and have taken several elective classes to understand how to break down literature and understand its separate elements.

And I am entirely willing to volunteer my time and my skillset to this group and would be more than happy to be the one to read and check all submitted written works to the group. Be it for prompts, gifts, quests, whatever. I am more than capable of this kind of task, and have the experience and knowledge to do it, besides. If the staff are stretched and don't have time to read written works to check for things, then please let me do it instead. I really, really would love for things to be a bit more fair on our side, and I feel like writers should be given the same means to challenge themselves with their works, and be properly rewarded for it.


I'm sorry for the length of this post; this is the condensed version, if you must know .-.

Idk what else to say, so toodles o/
AgentCorrina's avatar
hello! apologies in the delay in getting back to this. 
thank you for the feedback!

this is definitely something we have taken into consideration when discussing how to adjust stargold payouts and how we assess entries.

At this time, something like this would be a big jump to implement, and might lead to some issues for how we go over prompt entries. The conclusions we came to at the time of me writing this were as follows:

1. It is not always clear cut if a written entry would count for a bonus, even with the examples provided. In writing it is less obvious if something counts as "enough". We would need to be able to give specific %s that can be applied more universally for users to use as a reference across most works, which can be unclear when it comes to differing writing styles or if a characters involvement is spread out over a larger work. (While in a visual medium we can say "50% showing" in writing it is less clear cut than that.) We want to be able to make more consistent calls when giving payouts on entries to avoid frustration from group members who may not be sure if what they have submitted is "enough".

2. As the creator I am primarily a visual artist and written work analysis is not a strong point of mine. While I enjoy reading the works submitted to the group, I would not personally be able to tell if a characters involvement is "enough" to count for a bonus. If I am not able to make a clear call on it, it would be unfair for me to dump the entirety of those judgement onto the moderators, who would not be able to ask for my help.  

However, I do think that currently there is an imbalance in the payouts and I have come up with a new formula that will make earnings more equal across the board for both drawing and writing. We also have plans to come out with a new feature of the group specific to writers. :-D We cannot make updates to the SG payouts until the event is finished, but you can expect it soon after.  
Lavender-Arts's avatar
I hope this isn't inappropriate but I'm more than willing to volunteer time to assess written work as well. Though I don't post any of my writing publicly and am primarily a visual artist, I have years of experience writing academically and proof-reading and editing academic and personal writing for friends and classmates. Which is to say, I'm capable of doing the kind of review Jesse is suggesting here, even more so if some kind of rubric were in place to provide specific guidelines for assessment. If existing mods are too busy with other duties to give written work the closer look needed to score it, then the solution that comes to mind, if hiring more staff isn't possible, would be a group of people volunteering their time to provide a scoring assessment, possibly with mods having final judgment.

I'm not trying to push anything and I know it's being discussed, just saying that if changes were being considered but more than one person would need to offer their time to the task, I'd be willing to offer it too.
tiffmagius's avatar
hi!

if I have a ton of stargold but don't think I'm going to be able to earn enough for a MYO/don't have a celestial species to spend it on for art/items, how can I handle getting rid of it without sitting on it like a hoard?
blackpyres's avatar
hey!!!

stargold is meant as a currency within the group of celestial seas, so it's only meant to be spent on stuff relating to the group as a whole! (items, artwork, etc). we're working on a way to transfer stargold to other users, but until that is implemented if there's absolutely nothing you'd like to spend it on in the group you may have to sit on it, unfortunately. we're trying to avoid users using the arpg currency to obtain things outside of or not related to the group, if that makes sense! but you could buy celestial seas related gift art or items for other users as well, if you don't want to wait to directly transfer stargold. or if you have any other ideas feel free to let us know!
SkellumSketch's avatar
A really quick question, but would Iridescence be considered a mythical marking? It wouldn't glow, but it'd the color of the marking would be different if light hits the fur at different angles.
AntheLight's avatar
You're welcome to give your bird iridescence, it's not mythic! Here are some examples of birds with iridescence on the masterlist too! :3c
SkellumSketch's avatar
Awesome, thank you!
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