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Statist And Anarchist #041: Gay Marriage

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When they were writing the Constitution, the Founding Fathers, in their wisdom, knew that they would not be able to list every single inalienable human right. So to ensure that all of their bases were covered, they wrote the Ninth Amendment, which states that "there are other rights that may exist aside from the ones explicitly mentioned [within the Bill of Rights], and even though [those rights] are not listed, it does not mean they can be violated." One of those rights includes the right to marry—and yes, even among consenting adults of the same sex, as the Supreme Court ruled earlier this year.

Of course, one main objection to this amendment and interpretation would be that the concept of a “human right” is so diverse and vague that anything could be considered a right, including education, healthcare, or even the right not to be offended (which one university seems to think exists).

So how can we tell when something is a “right” or not? Allow the ever erudite and honorable Judge Andrew Napolitano to explain.
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Jon-The-Hillbilly's avatar
Well Blame, if I may ask honestly: Is gay marriage not an issue of morality? Forget legality. What about morality?
Phracker's avatar
It's funny how the party that is always talking about "morality" is also the party that supported the slaughter of tens of thousands of innocent children in Iraq to make money for an oil company.
Jay-of-Blue-Writing's avatar
How does this effect morality?

It's not related to the Death Penalty, Immigration, or even a war!

It's bout civil rights that people deserve. It's not pedophilia, or zoophilia. It's one person wanting to love another.
thesuperqueer's avatar
Yeah, because you Christians really have some solid morals in your piece of shit book of evil. Like how slavery is ok, and how you should be able to rape and beat your slaves and pass them to your kids as permant property. Then again, you call yourself a hillbilly, so I'm sure you love that part of the bible's moral dogshit.
Jon-The-Hillbilly's avatar
If I may interject, I call myself a hillbilly for humor's sake. Heh...helps keep a man humble to adopt a low title...and besides I play banjo...so it fits. :3


Next, half of those arguments about morals, if you could even call those arguments, are things that you cannot support within the context of what scripture says.

Now I could write a dissertation explaining the ways that these asinine secularist rebuttals are wrong. But for your sake, and the sake of time I will say this:

Slavery is not God's design for creation, nor is rape and violence. None of these does God condone, and in fact he hates those who engage in those things...and those who do them will suffer his wrath in Hell.

But the reason God is allowing them now is so that his glory can be revealed through the redemption of sinners through the death and resurrection of His son Jesus Christ.

All have sinned, and All deserve God's wrath in Hell. And the reason is because WE, in our hatred and rebellion against him, have committed cosmic treason (or sin) against our creator...

But God sent his son to die on the cross and rise again the third day...thus paying the penalty of our sin, and reconciling us to him.

If people would repent of their sin, (which is to have a change of mind such that it results in a change in direction, and trust in Christ alone, they will be saved. And furthermore, they will be changed.

Evil exists because we are evil...not God. God is good. He has to be. Or else there is no standard of right and wrong.
thesuperqueer's avatar
"None of these does God condone"


"Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear.  Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ.  (Ephesians 6:5 NLT)"

"Those who are under the bondage of slavery should consider their own masters as worthy of full respect so that God’s name and our teaching won’t get a bad reputation. And those who have masters who are believers in Christ shouldn’t look down on them because they are brothers. Instead, they should serve them more faithfully, because the people who benefit from your good service are believers who are loved. Teach and encourage these things." -Jesus
1 Timothy 6:1-2Common English Bible (CEB)


"
Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known man intimately. But all the girls who have not known man intimately, spare for yourselves."

This is Moses telling his army, after they've defeated their enemies, that God wants them to keep little girls as rape slaves. Your god is litterally telling people they're not only allowed to have slaves, since those Hebrew are this evil false God's chosen people, but also that they're allowed to be fucking PEDOPHILES! You're a fucking fool, you don't know shit about your book of pure evil.

Speaking of slaves, I find it strange you Christians hate aborition, since "babies" are so inncoent, yet you approve of your god allow people to fucking ENSLAVE people since people are all evil.

Jon-The-Hillbilly's avatar
Ephesians 6:5: This is a command to Christian slaves to obey their masters. In the society they lived in that day, unlike our current society, slavery was a common practice...and MANY of those slaves were themselves Christians.

As Christians we are called to obey our earthly authorities in-so-far as they do not conflict with the word of God. Because by being obedient, we model and reflect Christ-like obedience....and bring glory to our God in sincerely obeying our masters (or employers, or government, or family members). It is not saying that slaves are unequals...and you can only support that argument by ripping the verse out of it's historic and literary context.

1 Timothy 6:1-2:
Same principle as I said before...it is a command to CHRISTIAN slaves...many of whom existed in that time.

As for the other verse you did not cite, it was marriage...not rape...that is being mentioned here. You say rape because in your hatred for God and attempt to paint him as unrighteous, you say it is rape....when clearly, the text says nothing of the sort in its proper context.
I might add that it is not said what the age of the women who were spared was. But I would assume that they were adult women. And that the use of the word, "girl" in that passage probably is unique to the translation you are using.

If I am a fool, I'm a fool for Christ. If I know nothing, I know nothing for Christ. I do, however, know this: You say what you say because you hate our God. And you do not realize the futility of the position you hold.

You cannot know good or evil...unless God has written that standard of good and evil upon your heart.
Therefore, if our God is truly an evil God, then may i ask you this question: Just who in this world holds the authority to determine what is truly good and what Is truly evil?

I find it even more strange that you could miss the fact that God is being patient and gracious enough to allow all men to live...despite the fact that we all deserve his wrath in Hell.
thesuperqueer's avatar
"This is a command to Christian slaves to obey their masters"

So... basically you were wrong. You said God hates slavery and doesn't promote it at all, yet here it is, the book of evil telling slaves to lick the boots of their owners. You won't even admit you were wrong in saying that God doesn't approve of slavery. Typical of apologists. I wonder, do you even think slavery should be illegal? If not, why not? Your evil false God is saying it's ok. And no, slaves were treated as less than equal. That's why the bible says you can beat your slaves. Even to death if they survive for the first few days.
"When a man strikes his slave, male or female, with a rod and the slave dies under his hand, he shall be avenged. But if the slave survives a day or two, he is not to be avenged, for the slave is his property."


"
You say rape because in your hatred for God and attempt to paint him as unrighteous, you say it is rape....when clearly, the text says nothing of the sort in its proper context."

Ok retard, the verse says "females that have NOT KNOWN MAN BY LYING WITH HIM!" some translations even say women CHILDREN! ALL the females that were virgins were taken after their mothers and brothers were killed. Along with all girls that were not virgins. It says that in EVERY translation, NON VIRGINS!. In that time, that meant LITTLE GIRLS! And yes, you fucking piece of shit. It was RAPE! A 5-12 year old girl who just watched her mother get killed by a bunch of savages and then watched her brother get killed isnt going to suck Moses dick by her own will. Do you think your mom would let me fuck her up her ass if I killed you and your dad in front of her? No. You're a fucking imbilce. This is why I hate your kind. It has nothing to do with your false God. He isn't real, I have no reason to hate him. It's you I hate, you and everyone who believes in that book of pure evil.

"
If I am a fool, I'm a fool for Christ."
kk
No, what you are is a dirty PEDOPHILE lover. A supporter of child molestation. A man with zero morals, no values, no ethics.

"Just who in this world holds the authority to determine what is truly good and what Is truly evil?"

Empathy and science. Empathy leads you to know that raping children is wrong. Empathy leads you to know slavery is wrong. Empathy leads you to know there's nothing wrong with being gay, but that there IS something wrong with molesting kids. You lack that empathy, clearly, so you don't understand that.

"I find it even more strange that you could miss the fact that God is being patient and gracious enough to allow all men to live...despite the fact that we all deserve his wrath in Hell."'

Yeah, except that he's not real. So I'm not missing a thing. All you have to do to know the God of the bible isn't real is compare scienfic facts to the bible's "facts". Compare creationism to modern science. The bible loses every time. Because it's not inspired by any God. It was the psychobabble of a bunch of goat fuckers who thought slavery and raping children was ok, but that being gay was wrong.
Jon-The-Hillbilly's avatar
Well, If you were a slave, you are free to rebel against your master as you wish.

But if I am a slave, then I would submit to my masters' authority...out of love for Christ. This does not mean I think slavery is any more right...nor does I mean that God thinks it is right. But our God is patient with wicked men....and so I will likewise strive to be.

However, we do not live in a country where slavery is a way of life...by God's grace we do not. And so slavery is a red herring.



How do you know for sure it was rape? Were you there? Because as far as I can tell, you are reading something into the text that a plain and simple reading of the text does not show. And especially in context of the old Jewish laws on war.


How are you so sure I have no morals? Is it because I do not subscribe to your rabid atheism and reject the beliefs you think are evil? Is it because you are ultimately making yourself the standard of what is moral and not?

Empathy and science are limited by human perception and no two humans always share the same beliefs. Furthermore, empathy and science are not intelligent beings in themselves. They also did not create the very fabric of the universe we live in and have no cosmically reasonable grounds to determine what is moral or not.

Furthermore, if EMPATHY determines what morality is, empathy has little power over human self-centeredness. If you believe Christians are guilty of slavery and wicked actions, then please explain to me...why men, irregardless of their religious beliefs, are equally capable of wicked actions: Such as eugenicists.


Then you don't know WHO God is.
thesuperqueer's avatar
"How do you know for sure it was rape?"

Because based on the historical context of the story, those girls would have been children. And several translations say that they are children. A virgin 28 year old didn't exist in those times. And if they did, they were assumed to be non virgins because of arranged marriages. Even Marry in the bible was only 14. And children CAN NOT consent to sex, therefore, it is rape. And again, these people KILLED their family members in front of them. And I've already asked you, do you think your mom would take my dick after I killed you and your father? Huh? Do you even think a child can consent to sex? That's something only a pedophile would say. Are you a pedophile? Is that why you like childish shows? Are you attracted to children? I think you might be.

"How are you so sure I have no morals"

Several things, like;

"But if I am a slave, then I would submit to my masters' authority...out of love for Christ"

You will stand for immoral things simply for the reason you're told to. Nazis were an authority too, but guess what? I'm a morally upstanding person. I'm a good person. I'm an empathic person, so if I was told by any "authority" to do something that I know is immoral, I wouldn't do it. You don't know how to do that. You would judge as a slave as immoral or "un chirst like" for killing their dirty slave master. Yeah, you're immoral.

" Is it because you are ultimately making yourself the standard of what is moral and not?"

I don't need any authority or man to tell me sex with children is immoral. Not even myself. It's an objective fact that it's immoral based upon the simple principle that empathy is where human morality comes from. If you were a sociopath, all this talk of morals would be a total joke to you. Because without that empathy, morals mean nothing. You don't seem to understand that there's no need for any authority for objective morals. Because you're immoral.

"Why men, irregardless of their religious beliefs, are equally capable of wicked actions: Such as eugenicists."

Evil people do evil things. But it's a lot easier to do evil things when your religion is an evil one that teaches you that evil is not only acceptable, but is commanded by the creator of the universe. You're never going to get me to do something like allow slavery. It's pretty easy though to brainwash another good person to do those things though, because he's been told that he will burn forever if he dares to stand against evil. You don't understand this, because you're probably immoral.

Idk what to say man, you've been pwned on every possible level. I almost feel bad about it, lol, almost. Now give me another shitty pathetic and laughable response. I want to smack your bitch ass around a little more to get rid of all this stress from work. Hey, you know what I do for a job? I'm a nurse, I save lives, with science. Not God.

Hey, you could quote those bible verses where your evil god says that you'll be mocked by your superiors.
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BlameThe1st's avatar
I'd leave that for the individual to decide. The state has now power to dictate what it is immoral.
Jon-The-Hillbilly's avatar
Even still, what the state enforces is often a barometer of what the individuals believe...thus why many are pro-gay marriage: Because many individuals in our country are for sexual liberty.

On issues like gay marriage, there is no such thing as neutrality. And most who vote against gay marriage do not vote against it out of shallow, uneducated convictions...much like the Republican caricature here.
OnlyALittleKraken's avatar
I think that the argument that legalising same sex marriage is bad because it violates 'the sanctity of marriage' is foolish simply because of this: marriage has already been eroded so heavily by the vast increase in divorce and adultery that there's no sanctity left to violate. Marriage originally meant a lifelong commitment between a man and a woman. Now it means a semi-permanent arrangement that'll probably end in divorce and alimony payments a few years down the line. If gay people want to get married, the joke's on them (lmao, if two men get divorced do they pay crippling alimony to each other, and thus have the same amount of money they started off with? that'd be hilarious.)
Jon-The-Hillbilly's avatar
I think that the argument that legalising same sex marriage is bad because it violates 'the sanctity of marriage' is foolish simply because of this: marriage has already been eroded so heavily by the vast increase in divorce and adultery that there's no sanctity left to violate.
The wider culture may not preserve the sanctity of marriage, but as for myself, I will. And i will continue to tell others why they should to...
Graeystone's avatar
Ah yes. . .the 9th Amendment. . .which is immediately followed by the 10th Amendment. . .the one that states if a Power isn't listed in the Constitution then that Power goes to the States. . .in other words its up to the States to decide the matter of marriage, not the federal government and especially not SCOTUS. . .course what do I know. . .I'm just a 300 lbs cowboy hat/GOP T-Shirt wearing gun-toting illiterate.
VS-Devao-Irsez's avatar
Exactly! Someone has finally evoked a much needed and ignored constitutional legal detail in a condensed form of what I've been struggling with my own procrastination of trying to get around to dictating for months now.


I have no problem with same sex marriage being legal, I simply disapprove of the constitutionally obstructive manner in which it is being implemented.
VS-Devao-Irsez's avatar
Well I was going to give you fair warning on your last journal entry (when you were explaining the delay in your first "Red Statist" vs Anarchist blog strip) about how this is likely going to inevitably infuriate and alienate a considerable portion of your base, but since you only ended up pushing it back only a day I suppose it's a moot point now :shrug:

Honestly though, I'm actually quite surprised people are taking it this well considering the recent history of alienation and anger you've been creating for your less critical minded and now seemingly 'former fans' in trying to explain the somewhat intentionally vague but altogether not all that complicated meanings within the U.S. Constitution while also laying out some of the hard truths about the majority setup of the mainstream American political spectrum as a whole.

With all that said I'm really quite pleased that you actually managed to add a little more objective reasoning to this subject this time around, and to be more mature and insightful in your written subtext to this submission rather than simply resorting to the stereotypical juvenile politically holier than thou game of immaturely strawmanning with notions of "oh those stupid hypocritical hillbilly redneck conservatw*t southern Repuglic*nt sister f*ckers, they're soooooo stupid and they'll never ever learn!:slow:=P"
:facepalm: ..and then simply leaving it at that :facepalm:  ...so good job! :thumbsup: :) ..at least this time


Also I think people need to know that Kim Davis is actually a contemporary moderate Democrat (not a southern one!) who is more than likely only doing what she is doing just to deliberately stir up trouble. I even have very serious doubts that she really truly believes in the what she claims to be standing up for to begin with. :shrug:
Avionscreator's avatar
"...or even the right not to be offended (which one university seems to think exists".

I'm afraid I have difficulty grasping this concept but--are you saying people don't have the right not to be offended? If so, why? I mean, how does it even make sense to say that people have no right not to be offended? It just sounds so confusing to me.
PoliticalPip's avatar
You should make a Statist and Anarchist comic where Right-Wing Statist proves how right wing he is with a plush toy of the pony OC Aryanne and would like to see the death penalty being used for minor drug offences.
SingABrightSong's avatar
I'm still expecting same-sex marriage to die out within the century.
Jay-of-Blue-Writing's avatar
..........

How? If you're expecting it do die out, you're then classifying them as something not human.
SingABrightSong's avatar
I didn't say I expected homosexuals to die out. I said "same-sex marriage". How? By people looking around and saying "Maybe this wasn't such a good idea".
Jay-of-Blue-Writing's avatar
Okay, can you tell me what's wrong with same-sex marriage and how it effect the world?
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