Anonymous asked: $100 is a lot of money for a single page.
how much is a loaf of bread? hm? $3? $5?
At my local grocery store, bread is about $4.50 for a decent size italian loaf. If I make $7.25 and hour, that means I’d have to work 37 and a half minutes for a Loaf of bread.
but hey, that’s not so bad right? Work two hours and you’ll have a sandwich, eh?
Oh hey, turns out I also need toilet paper, rice, chicken, some veggies, a can of soup, and some cereal. (to name a few basic groceries one might need on a budget) we’ll round those things down to $25 just to make the math easier.
at $7.25 an hour I’ll have to work about 3 and a half hours for basic groceries.
That doesn’t include bills or gas or all the other groceries I need, That’s ONE quick trip to the store and I already have to work half a day just for that.
You don’t understand Anon, my pages could take HOURS if not DAYS. Between the sketching, inking, colouring, lettering, and finishing it’s taken at least a full two day’s work if not longer for each page.
I have a job that pays me beans, I cannot afford to post more pages a week without compensation. I literally cannot afford to do that. Not to mention the idea that art is only worth minimum wage cheapens the amount of work and effort that goes into producing it. I should be making WELL ABOVE minimum wage for my art via page count and commissions but it’s this damn “deviant art” mindset that makes people feel like they’re being swindled for paying a livable wage to artists. It’s rude and childish and I ask that you please stop considering artists as less worthy of affording a normal life.
You can either pay me what I ask for what you want or stop complaining about what I already give you for free.
I cannot fucking stand people who tell illustrators that something they produce is too expensive.
Yall motherfuckers want cheap? Go get some paper, get a fucking pencil and then draw it your motherfucking selves because nobody freelancing on the internet who hasn’t even half made it in the illustration world is charging you ANYTHING close to industry pricing even when some of us are as good if not better. Why? Because of people like Anon. Your name must be out there and known to charge anything close to what your time and skill is worth. Yet still? You are paying for my effort, my time, my blood, sweat and tears and a lifetime of learning my trade.
A cheap page for yo ass is a piece of paper I haven’t touched yet.
(As a freelancer I cannot staaaaaaaaaaaaaand people who pull this dogshit.)
$100 is pretty cheap for a page.
Basic math, for Anon up there: Break that $100 down into an hourly rate. Factor in materials. Factor in skill and schooling and experience. Bear in mind that a page rate *at all* means there’s a good chance it’s work-for-hire, which means that $100 a page might be all the artist gets, ever.
And then, when you’ve done that math, think about what that means in terms of how few comics artists make a living hourly wage.
Want a pro artist, anon? Pay them like a fucking pro.
I’d like to add the a professional of any stripe has the duty to themselves, and the right to charge a rate based on his skill level and the work he or she puts in.
In researching the history of pin up art I found that before there were the “centerfold girls”
there were the “pin-up calendar girls” – the semi-nude young women in lingerie whose photographs
adorned calendars sold semi-legally from under the counters of gas stations and truck stops. In
fact, the Marilyn Monroe nudes that established the “Playboy” magazine centerfold were actually
taken years before for just such a “men’s calendar.” From “French postcards” to calendars to men’s
magazines, there has always been a special relationship between photography and the male obsession
with the female form. These photos were pinned in soldiers’ lockers and even carried into combat.
The iconic pin-up images were even painted on the nosecones of many U.S. Air Force bombers.
At least through the “Playboy” era (1960s-70s) the depictions of the female were extremely “objectified”
– the “quality” of the female subject’s body parts taking precedence over any other information about the
subject. But something interesting happened as the generations progressed. Pin-up art has greatly evolved
not only from how idealized females are depicted, but also in that so many women themselves are now the artists
creating pin-up art.
Furthermore, the pin-up models themselves are no longer mute, anonymous “objects” for manipulation –
they have their own identities, websites and businesses based on how they choose to represent their female form.
When young men choose pin up totems of their preferred pop culture prey to adorn their man-caves these days, the
“pin-up girl” ideal is more likely to be closer to Lara Croft or Gina Carano or the Kate Beckinsale character in
“Underworld” or Milla Jovovich in “Resident Evil” than to some full bodied but otherwise expressionless model. Even
the most macho men today seem to want their “dream girl” to be smart and tough and resourceful.
The pin-up image has greatly evolved from a fluffy slice of “cheesecake” to a self-reliant, self-defined, physically
fit female whose hotness is exceeded only by her ability to kick any unworthy man’s butt. As more and more female artists
create pin-up art, and more female models for this art become self-empowered in co-creation of the “message” going out
from this art, the more the “objectification” past can be redeemed by the “empowerment” future – and the wonder and power
of the female subject – body and soul – can be free to evolve ever closer in its depiction toward ultimate revelation.
Because of the comments this article is generating, many directed at the “voice” of the article instead of its subject, this has turned into a great opportunity to talk a bit about the process of these articles and why they are presented the way they are.
The purpose of my essays and articles on HQ is to shine a spotlight on amazing artists on deviantART as well as all of the different types of art represented on our site and hopefully spark real dialogues between deviants and others. Sometimes this works “too well” and community members take me to task for pushing some sort of private agenda that would better be suited to my personal journaling. But I have no agenda other than to provoke the lively exchanges that, like this one on pin-up art, are giving off such great passion, heat and light. The shared comments, especially from contributors like SparrowSong, are the other half of what the “articles” are about.
The articles are not personal “think pieces” or statements of official deviantART opinion or policy about “positive" or “negative” art. The articles are meant to bring out your feelings and opinions. In this pin-up piece I was worried that my own, sometimes buzz-kill, feminist sentiments (especially when it comes to objectifying women into sex toys) were going to overly darken my notes on “pin-up” - - a major field of art on deviantART - - and make me look biased against it and its artists. I obviously bent the rhetorical stick too far the other way. I’m relieved that there’s still enough passion out there for female equality that I’d be called a sexist for not totally trashing “pin-up” and its fans.
What I really wasn’t trying to say in the article is that I think “pin-up” used to be sexist, but it’s all good and even empowering of females now with sexism “gone.”. I thought I was saying that pin-up objectificaton will always exist so long as testosterone exists, but now at least there is a substantial portion of it that at least values (or intends to value) other aspects of the female subject (i.e., leadership, independence, physical and mental acuity, etc) and these were completely absent in pin-up just a few decades ago. I always look to the rays of light emerging from the darkness, rather than the depressing persistence of the darkness.
What started out as an invitation for all of us to express, yet also question, our feelings and personal thesis about the validity, purpose, intent, and artistic merit of nudity in the arts (and subsequently our everyday lives) quickly turned into a wildfire global conversation that ran across every age, race, religion, gender, and ideology we have on the Earth Sphere. Just an incredible conversation that had a significant impact on many of us in the community who were following each and every comment.
One other angle I edited out of the article at the last minute: there is a direct thread from the Pin-up era all the way through to the insurgent Cosplay movement currently raging across the globe. The comment from $Dollwithagun presents first hand perspective regarding the pin up centric, barely there outfits, and decidedly erotic undercurrents permeating the Con circuits along with the meteoric rise and integration of the cosplay aesthetic into the mainstream of our pop-culture narrative.
To this point, Heidi and I returned from a fact finding mission at Dragon Con last year with multiple eye opening experiences illustrating this surging phenomenon.
I would like to extend this invitation to you to share responses to this article with links to artwork, sources, statistics, etc., that strengthen and support your positions and thoughts on any matters related to this now diverse conversation, and I will then update this article next week highlighting all of those well thought out and detailed responses.
Many of you have commented about the inclusion of weapons as props in today's pin up art. What would you say is the ultimate impact of that element on the viewers experience?
What female pin-up from movies, comics, fashion, etc, has always best represented your idea of the ideal female? How much of your choice is based on sheer physical attractiveness and magnetism, and how much on other factors (what you know of her ideas and attitudes, her causes and concerns, etc)?
How much “political” thought ruins an artist’s muse?
Would you consider posing for a pin up if asked? Do you think that posing for a painitng or drawing is different than posing for a photograph?
Do you feel it’s a generally positive thing that female artists create powerful independent female characters in their art that are still ultra-sexy and alluring?
I am more pissed off about having to give up 20% of my earnings to this system.
Its hard enough to find people with the proper funds necessary to pay for a professional level commission without DA taking a huge chunk of what funds I would be making after taking into account the cost of supplies, time, and training.
If I'm expected to push this fee onto my clients I am certain it would cause the prices to quickly fall outside the respective budgets of a large number of people.
This whole system feels like its pandering to this growing crowd of amateurs who think "Art is Easy" and after seeing a professional rake in several hundred dollars from a single commission think they can do the same with next to no training or practice.
Many major artist industries have been suffering from these types flooding the market with mediocre works at prices that do not properly reflect quality of work being produced. Then we got quality artist who don't have a clue how to price their work undercutting what should be a standard asking price to the point where the value of all professionals are diminished.
Its bad enough that the managers of Marvel and DC treat their artist like crap and underpay, lock them into cheating contracts, or fire them on a whim without DA cutting off our legs from the other side. > .<